Brooklyn bus ideas for 2010 and beyond

[BrooklynBus]

"If you don't see how having buses layover in front of hospitals (especially in front of the main entrances of them) would make anything worse, then I don't know what else to tell you.... "

 

Nowhere do I propose to terminate buses in front of the main entrance to Kings County Hospital. I proposed the B12 terminate on New York Avenue north of Clarkson Avenue and the B43 on Clarkson at the far side of New York Avenue near Downstate. The clinic entrance of KCH is across the street and the main entrance a block away.

 

"riders north of flatbush av make up most of that morning crowd heading towards KCC..... you're not terminating buses full time on empire blvd "

 

Of course you don't mention the new connections that a B50 would provide, such as with the B46, increasing two-bus access to KCC.

 

"During the rush, Students make up the majority of the riders on that route along ocean anyway... well that, and the few elderly riders that use that route...."

 

Besides the fact that the last quote of yours isn't mine, I would dispute the fact that few elderly riders use that route (B49). When I used to take my mother to Maimonides Hospital on the B49 in the mid-afternoon, the bus was very crowded and slow stopping every single block for three or four people to get on and off and this was with very few students on board. I couldn't imagine anyone who wasn't eldery taking the bus going for than two miles because it was so slow and the train so much faster. The trip took about four times longer than with the train

[B35 via Church]

Nowhere do I propose to terminate buses in front of the main entrance to Kings County Hospital. I proposed the B12 terminate on New York Avenue north of Clarkson Avenue and the B43 on Clarkson at the far side of New York Avenue near Downstate. The clinic entrance of KCH is across the street and the main entrance a block away.

Yeah... so I suppose everything's gonna run like clockwork, and no buses will be backed up/bunched up at, or near the hospital entrance whatsoever... don't forget you got "B16's" running along clarkson as well...

 

Some of these drivers park buses wherever they feel fit, around a terminal area... they find any open space & they'll park em right there... a GOOD example of this is @ Woodhull hospital... I've even seen buses parked ON Broadway, short of Marcus Garvey, right where that B46 stop (towards Kings Plaza) is... but according to your plans for KCH, something like that would be okay...

IMO, the idea is to want to minimize parked vehicles around hospital property, not exacerbate it.... I don't know of any route in the 5 boroughs that terminates (and layovers) in front of hospital property like that, that doesn't have its own "dedicated" area for buses (and I'm not talking about a simple bus stop along a curbside on some street)....

 

Face it, the immediate area around Kings County hospital & Downstate med. center aren't a good place to terminate buses... it's bad enough those damn garbage trucks (plural) park along New york av.....

 

 

Of course you don't mention the new connections that a B50 would provide, such as with the B46, increasing two-bus access to KCC.

Not to mention it would connect w/ the 49 twice, but that's neither here nor there....

 

Anyway, The current B43 lags along the short section of Empire Blvd that it serves... You have that "B50" going down the length of it.... The only upside your proposed route has over the B49 is that it's a limited route... Virtually no one would be open to riding from Empire/Utica (or anywhere in that vicinity) to KCC.... Although I will say that it would bring more riders to the Prospect Park station....

Speaking of which, what is it with all that service you have along Empire - Regarding the story you posted a few posts ago, Now it's definitely clear that this is some personal agenda you wanted to address... Looking at your map, no way you can convince me that Empire Blvd is deserving of that amount of service... and I can't be the only one that feels that way....

 

 

 

Besides the fact that the last quote of yours isn't mine, I would dispute the fact that few elderly riders use that route (B49). When I used to take my mother to Maimonides Hospital on the B49 in the mid-afternoon, the bus was very crowded and slow stopping every single block for three or four people to get on and off and this was with very few students on board. I couldn't imagine anyone who wasn't eldery taking the bus going for than two miles because it was so slow and the train so much faster. The trip took about four times longer than with the train

 

For one, in that quote, I said during the rush....

 

...and by few, I meant, in comparison to non-elderly riders that use that route... I'm not talking about some miniscule # like 5 people per trip....

 

...I'm not disputing the B49 is slow... that's what I'm trying to tell you, ppl will (and do) take the brighton over the B49 (right now, I'm talking about intra-borough travel.. despite the fact that it's "train vs bus"...).. hell, I'm even seeing more people take the B68 over the B49 in south brooklyn now... The B49 has some importance (or else, in reality, it wouldn't be a service), but to me, that importance is declining...

[BrooklynBus]

I'm not going to discuss the layover issue anymore. You have your opinion and I have mine.

 

"Virtually no one would be open to riding from Empire/Utica (or anywhere in that vicinity) to KCC.... "

 

Okay, so how would you make that trip if you had to?

 

"Anyway, The current B43 lags along the short section of Empire Blvd that it serves... You have that "B50" going down the length of it.... "

 

I have it going down the length of it because it needs the service. There is a gap in east-west service. You have east-west buses every half mile except for Empire Blvd. Bergen Street, St. Johns, the B12, then Church Avenue, Ave D, etc. Between St Johns and Church, there is no way to get East-West in East Flatbush. For example, to get the the 71st Precinct (at NY Ave and Empire) that serves the area, from around Empire and Utica, the only way is to take the B12 to Clarkson and NY and then the B44 northbound back to Empire. Is that how you want people to travel, 40 minutes for what should be a 15 minute trip?

 

"no way you can convince me that Empire Blvd is deserving of that amount of service..."

 

I don't see how I'm increasing service on Empire except for providing service on the portion where none currently exists.

 

"For one, in that quote, I said during the rush.... "

 

I know you were talking about the rush. I just wanted to let you know that without the school kids in mid-afternoon, the B49 bus still was SRO during the non-rush. I don't know where you get the 5 people per trip you speak of.

[B35 via Church]

Okay, so how would you make that trip if you had to?

 

short walk up to Utica... 3/4 to franklin... shuttle to prospect park... B/Q to Sheepshead Bay... B49 to KCC....

 

I would not take a bus from no Empire/Utica to no KCC...

on a good day, I might take a bus from Empire/Flatbush to KCC, but not from Empire/Utica.... especially on a regular basis....

 

 

I have it going down the length of it because it needs the service. There is a gap in east-west service. You have east-west buses every half mile except for Empire Blvd. Bergen Street, St. Johns, the B12, then Church Avenue, Ave D, etc. Between St Johns and Church, there is no way to get East-West in East Flatbush.

For example, to get the the 71st Precinct (at NY Ave and Empire) that serves the area, from around Empire and Utica, the only way is to take the B12 to Clarkson and NY and then the B44 northbound back to Empire. Is that how you want people to travel, 40 minutes for what should be a 15 minute trip?

 

Maybe because the demand for bus service along the length of Empire Blvd is rather low perhaps?

 

You give me scenario's that only support your proposals (the 71st precinct? seriously now)... of course you mention nothing about (drastically) changing people's riding patterns.... You say you want routes to "better serve southern brooklyn", but why should routes that serves northern brooklyn be worsened b/c of it....

Case in point, it's not worth re-routing 12's down empire, and changing ppl's ridership patterns on the *current* B12 (by your "B16")... So the B12 makes a bevy of turns... fact is, it does the job... the problem w/ that route is (and has been for the longest), bunching... not the routing itself....

 

I don't see how I'm increasing service on Empire except for providing service on the portion where none currently exists.

heh... you're simply minimizing the fact by throwing an "except" in front of it all....

 

Even if you want a route to serve the length of Empire, there's still absolutely no need to reroute 12's down empire, and have 16's go from 86th/4th to Broadway/Halsey??..... That's totally botching up service around the east flatbush/crown heights area.. just to have two routes terminate @ KCH.... You're altering (and terminating) routes at, as if KCH is some sort of major transfer point or something....

 

 

I don't know where you get the 5 people per trip you speak of.

 

...and by few, I meant, in comparison to non-elderly riders that use that route... I'm not talking about some miniscule # like 5 people per trip....

 

never said there were 5 people per trip... now you're reaching....

[BrooklynBus]

"short walk up to Utica... 3/4 to franklin... shuttle to prospect park... B/Q to Sheepshead Bay... B49 to KCC...."

 

I made that walk up Utica from Rutland Road (four blocks south of Empire Blvd) for 25 years, takes 20 minutes and not very pleasant up the hill. Also, at that time there was no transfer at Franklin, so the shuttle was not an option then. I agree some will choose to make the trip you describe but I also think many would choose just to stay on one bus than walk 10 or 15 minutes, then take three trains and a bus. I'm not even sure if it would be quicker.

 

"Maybe because the demand for bus service along the length of Empire Blvd is rather low perhaps?"

 

I don't think so, but you will never know unless you try. You could have said the same thing in the 1970s that there is no demand from Brighton Beach to 86th Street. Very few made the trip because it required three or four buses. Now you couldn't say there is no demand. The beauty about buses is that you don't need tracks. There needs to be a lot more experimenting. If it does turn out that there is no demand for a through Empire Blvd service, you discontinue the route. I know, with the political climate that is easier said than done. But it can be done if it is stated at the outset that it is an experiment for a given time period. Then you set some clear guidelines beforehand about how many riders you need for the route to be maintained and you stick to it. That approach has never been tried.

 

"So the B12 makes a bevy of turns... fact is, it does the job... the problem w/ that route is (and has been for the longest), bunching... not the routing itself...."

 

I rode the B12 for many years. I didn't find bunching to be the main problem, no worse than on many other routes. I found that all the turns made it extremely slow. With every turn, you would miss the light. At one point it's average speed was 4 mph and was rated as the slowest route in Brooklyn.

 

"You're altering (and terminating) routes at, as if KCH is some sort of major transfer point or something...."

 

It is not a major transfer point but it is an important destination. You said yourself that traditionally hospitals are underserved. Before the 1978 changes, Coney Island Hospital was served only by one circuitous bus route serving only a few neighborhoods. Now it is served by three routes. KCH also needs to be served better. It is Brooklyn's most heavily used hospital serving many areas. Because of its trauma center, ambulances bypass closer hospitals to go to KCH. And you also have the Psychiatric Center east of Albany which is just served on the periphary.

[B35 via Church]

I don't think so, but you will never know unless you try. You could have said the same thing in the 1970s that there is no demand from Brighton Beach to 86th Street. Very few made the trip because it required three or four buses. Now you couldn't say there is no demand. The beauty about buses is that you don't need tracks. There needs to be a lot more experimenting. If it does turn out that there is no demand for a through Empire Blvd service, you discontinue the route. I know, with the political climate that is easier said than done. But it can be done if it is stated at the outset that it is an experiment for a given time period. Then you set some clear guidelines beforehand about how many riders you need for the route to be maintained and you stick to it. That approach has never been tried.

Then the question becomes, what major destination(s) at, along, or anywhere around empire blvd would people be apt to taking a bus to/from said destination, embarking/disembarking along empire, on a daily basis (this includes xferring to/from other routes, as well).... that road itself is but so long (I'd guess around 2 miles from one end to the other)....

After having had serve all of empire, is turning buses down ocean the answer? Is having buses continue down ENY (east new york) av the answer? Who's to say... I suppose it can be "tried" out, but I still think the demand is rather low at this point & time... yet something else we'll agree to disagree on....

 

I rode the B12 for many years. I didn't find bunching to be the main problem, no worse than on many other routes. I found that all the turns made it extremely slow. With every turn, you would miss the light. At one point it's average speed was 4 mph and was rated as the slowest route in Brooklyn.

I don't doubt that you did... I can tell you have experience on your side.... But I can also tell you one thing - at present, the B12 is far from the slowest route in Brooklyn... now it's your average route IMO (well between Flatbush av & Alabama av anyway... it's stint on Liberty is a whole 'nother can of worms)... Maybe they got rid of some traffic lights that used to exist b/w albany/clarkson & empire/utica (i.e., the stretch of the route where it makes the turns that it does), I don't know....

Far as bunching goes, I'm not saying it's the worst in the city on the B12, but it's not uncommon to see 2 buses (one basically right behind the other) at a time; doesn't matter which direction...

 

It is not a major transfer point but it is an important destination. You said yourself that traditionally hospitals are underserved. Before the 1978 changes, Coney Island Hospital was served only by one circuitous bus route serving only a few neighborhoods. Now it is served by three routes. KCH also needs to be served better. It is Brooklyn's most heavily used hospital serving many areas. Because of its trauma center, ambulances bypass closer hospitals to go to KCH. And you also have the Psychiatric Center east of Albany which is just served on the periphary.

Yeh, they send damn near everyone to KCH nowdays... I listen to the news, and you hear these stories of people getting shot/stabbed in areas nowhere close to KCH... yet they get sent there... and you say to yourself, why didn't they send him/her to ___________, it's much closer... etc. etc...

 

Back on topic... Yes, I think hospitals in NYC are generally underserved... especially when you compare them to suburban (or w/e you want to call them) routes such as the ones out in suffolk county... there, routes deviate from their "main" road of operation just to serve them... hell, and especially at the rate some of the smaller med. ctr's in the city have had to cease operations....

 

However, I don't think routes should terminate at hospitals if they don't have to... The main problem I have w/ those particular proposals of yours is not that they serve KCH - but they terminate there....

[BrooklynBus]

"Maybe they got rid of some traffic lights that used to exist b/w albany/clarkson & empire/utica (i.e., the stretch of the route where it makes the turns that it does)"

 

No, once they put in traffic lights they neve take them out. I really doubt that the B12 is any faster these days. If it is no longer the slowest route, it's not because it became faster, but because others have become slower. In the old days, there were crossing guards near schools at arrival and dismissal times. Somewhere in the last 20 years, someone decided that you need a traffic light within a block of each school. That is at least two traffic lights per school. Some neighborhoods seem like Manahattan with traffic lights at virtually every intersection, and sometimes they are purposely not synchronized to slow down the traffic. I think someone recently posted on BusChat that the B2 used to have three lights along its entire route and now has 11.

 

 

"The main problem I have w/ those particular proposals of yours is not that they serve KCH - but they terminate there.... "

 

There is a service gap below Kings County Hospital between Utica and Nostrand. It would be nice if the B43 after passing KCH could continue down Albany Avenue without terminating at the hospital. The problem is that Albany does not go through Holy Cross Cemetery. It would use a lot of mileage to go aroung the cemetery and the housing is mostly mid and low density without any commercial, so I think the demand would be low, (unlike Empire Blvd which runs through neighborhoods with higher density). But I feel there is some demand, and I wouldn't be surprised if that is where the dollar vans are going after they leave the hospital. Also, there is the question of where the route would terminate. All I can think of is Kings Plaza. You can't terminate it in the middle of nowhere.

[B35 via Church]

No, once they put in traffic lights they neve take them out. I really doubt that the B12 is any faster these days. If it is no longer the slowest route, it's not because it became faster, but because others have become slower. In the old days, there were crossing guards near schools at arrival and dismissal times. Somewhere in the last 20 years, someone decided that you need a traffic light within a block of each school. That is at least two traffic lights per school. Some neighborhoods seem like Manahattan with traffic lights at virtually every intersection, and sometimes they are purposely not synchronized to slow down the traffic. I think someone recently posted on BusChat that the B2 used to have three lights along its entire route and now has 11.

ehh, you continue to apply/mention how things were back in the 70's... to the way things are now.... and drawing up unjust conclusions in the process... Things change, man....

 

Again, the B12 isn't the slow route you may remember it as way back when (it isn't, or anywhere near the slowest route in Brooklyn. period.).... and the reason that's the case, is definitely not because other routes in Brooklyn has gotten slower; what kind of logic is that....

 

oh, and there was a point & time where Gerritsen av had lights at almost every intersection... definitely isn't the case now....

 

 

There is a service gap below Kings County Hospital between Utica and Nostrand. It would be nice if the B43 after passing KCH could continue down Albany Avenue without terminating at the hospital. The problem is that Albany does not go through Holy Cross Cemetery. It would use a lot of mileage to go aroung the cemetery and the housing is mostly mid and low density without any commercial, so I think the demand would be low, (unlike Empire Blvd which runs through neighborhoods with higher density).

 

But I feel there is some demand, and I wouldn't be surprised if that is where the dollar vans are going after they leave the hospital. Also, there is the question of where the route would terminate. All I can think of is Kings Plaza. You can't terminate it in the middle of nowhere.

below kings county hospital b/w utica & nostrand....

 

well you got the B35 here on Church.... the south-most part of KCH is on Clarkson.... only other two streets are...

 

lmao.... dude, there's no way in hell you're gonna have buses in service travelling along linden, or lenox (especially)... B35's & B8's heading from/going back to the depot use linden blvd... Unless you are talking about that gap on Clarkson itself b/w Albany & Remsen (where the 47 turns off)....

 

Every gap doesn't warrant bus service travelling along it...

after the B12 turns off Clarkson, that area is DEAD up until utica..... if anything, you'd lose passengers having buses continue on clarkson.... the 47 works on its stint on clarkson b/c it connects ppl. to the 3 train... the 12 connects ppl to the 2/5, & the B/Q trains, as well as KCH... ppl. on one end of clarkson aren't looking to travel to the other...

 

If you're not talking about clarkson, then I don't know what gap "below kings county hospital" you're talking about....

[BrooklynBus]

"oh, and there was a point & time where Gerritsen av had lights at almost every intersection... definitely isn't the case now...."

 

Are you sure about that? Can you think of a specific intersection where a light has been removed? I can't think of a single traffic light that has been removed and probably a hundred that have been added in Brooklyn alone.

 

"If you're not talking about clarkson, then I don't know what gap "below kings county hospital" you're talking about...."

 

There is a gap on Clarkson, but that is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the north-south gap. If you live around Albany Avenue below the hospital and need a north-south route, you have to walk about a half mile to Utica Avenue and about the same distance to Nostrand Avvenue. Yes, you could take an east west bus to access those routes, but then you cannot change for another east-west bus without paying another fare, and as I mentioned before, people just won't take three buses. Most people won't walk more than a quarter-mile to a bus route, but will walk a half-mile for a subway.

[S78 via Hylan]

Guys, I understand everyone can voice their opinion, but we think of a new bus idea? You two have been arguing for a while.

[B35 via Church]

Are you sure about that? Can you think of a specific intersection where a light has been removed? I can't think of a single traffic light that has been removed and probably a hundred that have been added in Brooklyn alone.

 

Gerritsen av/Knapp st... years before it (the road & the way the traffic lights were situated) was reconfigured the way it is now.

 

There is a gap on Clarkson, but that is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the north-south gap. If you live around Albany Avenue below the hospital and need a north-south route, you have to walk about a half mile to Utica Avenue and about the same distance to Nostrand Avvenue.

 

Yes, you could take an east west bus to access those routes, but then you cannot change for another east-west bus without paying another fare, and as I mentioned before, people just won't take three buses. Most people won't walk more than a quarter-mile to a bus route, but will walk a half-mile for a subway.

 

Yeh, I live around albany avenue below the hospital (snyder av, as a matter of fact).... It is not that big a deal to take the B35 to Utica or to New York av/Nostrand avenue.... the cemetery obstructs any possibility of an albany av route; we can't do anything about it... I'm sure ppl. in middle village feel the same way about the M; the commute those residents have to take to get to Queens Blvd (for example) and points north, due to the cemetery obstructing the path of any possibility of an M extension....

 

Besides, who normally takes a east/west bus... to a north/south bus.... to another east/west bus anyway? not many, if any... which is where the subway comes into play.... There is no point/area in the 5 boroughs where you have to take more than two buses to get to a subway station....

 

 

 

Guys, I understand everyone can voice their opinion, but we think of a new bus idea? You two have been arguing for a while.

I knew it would come to this at some point...

 

As long as we're not flaming each other, I don't see a problem, bro...

and I hope the mods/admins don't see a problem w/ this particular discussion either...

 

If someone wants to bring up another idea, I'd be more than willing to talk about it.

[BrooklynBus]

"Gerritsen av/Knapp st... years before it (the road & the way the traffic lights were situated) was reconfigured the way it is now."

 

Now you are stretching. Sure, I can also think of several intersections that were reconfigured necessitating traffic signals being moved but that was not what I was talking about. I was asking if there were any intersections where the signals were completely removed and replaced with Stop signs. I think there are none which was my point, that bus rotues generally operate slower these days because so many new signals have been installed over the years with none being removed.

 

I guess this about finally ends this discussion unless someone else would like to chime in with any other ideas about Brooklyn routes.

[B35 via Church]

"Gerritsen av/Knapp st... years before it (the road & the way the traffic lights were situated) was reconfigured the way it is now."

 

Now you are stretching. Sure, I can also think of several intersections that were reconfigured necessitating traffic signals being moved but that was not what I was talking about. I was asking if there were any intersections where the signals were completely removed and replaced with Stop signs. I think there are none which was my point, that bus rotues generally operate slower these days because so many new signals have been installed over the years with none being removed.

 

I guess this about finally ends this discussion unless someone else would like to chime in with any other ideas about Brooklyn routes.

 

Now I'm stretching? You asked for one specific intersection... That's the one I chose to give... so it happened to be reconfigured.... the lights aren't situated the same... I said there are others along Gerritsen av that don't have any lights at all... more selective reading on your part, I suppose...

 

Never disputed that bus service has generally gotten slower due to traffic signals being installed all over the borough(s)... That still doesn't mean that the B12 is the slowest route in the borough like you may remember it as being.... that's where this part of the discussion about traffic lights came in to play and you know it....

 

But yeah, I'm through w/ this particular discussion also.... I care about the present & the future when it comes to buses & the routes they travel on.... You can keep on living in the past if you want; tailoring your thoughts & proposals to how things were in the 70's & comparing them to how things are today....

 

 

Again, if someone wants to bring up another Brooklyn bus idea, I'd be more than willing to comment/discuss it....

[Shortline Bus]

I thought this was the Lincoln-Douglas debates lol.

[B35 via Church]

^^ haha, nah, dude aint thinking that far in the past.... lol....

 

 

Anyway, I'll post some of my proposals.... fair is fair....

 

* B37, eliminated... ppl. along 3rd av in bay ridge/ft hamilton barely use the route.... and the portion of 3rd under the highway, forget about it...

* B74, eliminated... combined with the B36... It'll have two branches, via mermaid & via surf... mermaid buses stop inside the mermaid loop... they'll each have the same terminal along W. 37th st.....

* B82, truncated to CI/Quentin rd... that would increase the reliability of this route tenfold IMO...

* rather than extending the B36 to kings plaza, new service from Stillwell/Surf, to kings plaza (along cropsey av & the western part of kings hwy).... basically a combination of the western half of the current B82, and the current B2....

* extend the B77 to the atlantic mall, via 4th av...

* I still agree w/ the MTA's proposal to send B71's over to South Ferry....

* minor B4 routing in Sheepshead bay; bi-directional service on Emmons, to current terminal....

 

* still thinking about combining the B31 & the B100 and having it travel something like the current B24 does... problem is, E. 16th st is one way southbound.... I'll have to think more about that....

 

more, coming.... still working on a map....

 

 

That's it for now... any comments or questions, feel free....

[Shortline Bus]

^^ haha, nah, dude aint thinking that far in the past.... lol....

 

 

Anyway, I'll post some of my proposals.... fair is fair....

 

* B37, eliminated... ppl. along 3rd av in bay ridge/ft hamilton barely use the route.... and the portion of 3rd under the highway, forget about it...

* B74, eliminated... combined with the B36... It'll have two branches, via mermaid & via surf... mermaid buses stop inside the mermaid loop... they'll each have the same terminal along W. 37th st.....

* B82, truncated to CI/Quentin rd... that would increase the reliability of this route tenfold IMO...

* rather than extending the B36 to kings plaza, new service from Stillwell/Surf, to kings plaza (along cropsey av & the western part of kings hwy).... basically a combination of the western half of the current B82, and the current B2....

* extend the B77 to the atlantic mall, via 4th av...

* I still agree w/ the MTA's proposal to send B71's over to South Ferry....

* minor B4 routing in Sheepshead bay; bi-directional service on Emmons, to current terminal....

 

* still thinking about combining the B31 & the B100 and having it travel something like the current B24 does... problem is, E. 16th st is one way southbound.... I'll have to think more about that....

 

more, coming.... still working on a map....

 

 

That's it for now... any comments or questions, feel free....

 

 

Questions/replies for B35?

 

1)If the B37 is canned, Mr. B35 via Church do you have the B103 run 7 days a week to replace it? Remember there are hunderds of people in the projects(forgot name of them) on 3rd Avenue between Atlantic and Union St who still use the B37.

 

I agree with reducing the B37 and i stand by my oringal proposal of running it about 6am-Midnight(7am-11pm Sundays). Or at least weekdays 6am-Midnight but there enough riders on the B37 to run it 5 days a week.

 

 

2)I still think a better idea of the B82 is to split it into '2' routes. The main B82 route operates between Rockaway Parkway station and Stillwell Terminal. A new "B81" operates between Brooklyn Postal Center area (Elderts Lane/Linden)and East 16th/Kings Highway ((Q) station. Again a lot of B82 riders especially nurses who live in Canarise, Flatlands, etc, use the B82 to get to work at the nursing homes along Crospey Ave and in Coney Island as well.

I have to think about B35's new idea of mergering the B2/western half of the B82.

 

3)The B74 does not need to run on weekends imo. There enough service on weekdays to run as this line is often SRO during rush hours especially during the school year.

 

I await the rest of your ideas bro,(B35)

[S78 via Hylan]

I like those ideas. Especially the B71.

[B35 via Church]

Questions/replies for B35?

 

1)If the B37 is canned, Mr. B35 via Church do you have the B103 run 7 days a week to replace it? Remember there are hunderds of people in the projects(forgot name of them) on 3rd Avenue between Atlantic and Union St who still use the B37.

 

hmm, I wouldn't say hundreds a day... total of a given week, maybe?

Those projects alone, I don't think, is enough to keep B37 service outright... You do have a point, in that, from downtown brooklyn, to that area of 3rd av (before it starts to get... well, industrial) is where most the ppl. use that route....

 

anyway, the B103 is a different dynamic; I wouldn't prolong the commutes of Canarsie/Flatlands, etc B103 riders another 5-10 minutes to serve that stretch (w/ local stops) of 3rd av you speak of.....

 

I thought about re-routing the B71... union st is a dead draw nowadays.... I think a Brooklyn/lower manhattan route can really catch on... and IMO, it might even take ppl. off express buses (it's more common than ppl may think - that riders get off @ the respective first stops in brooklyn on the BM1-4)....

 

 

2)I still think a better idea of the B82 is to split it into '2' routes.

 

* The main B82 route operates between Rockaway Parkway station and Stillwell Terminal.

* A new "B81" operates between Brooklyn Postal Center area (Elderts Lane/Linden)and East 16th/Kings Highway ((Q) station.

 

Again a lot of B82 riders especially nurses who live in Canarise, Flatlands, etc, use the B82 to get to work at the nursing homes along Crospey Ave and in Coney Island as well.

 

I have to think about B35's new idea of mergering the B2/western half of the B82.

iono, the way I see it bro, the issue is more kings hwy than it is flatlands av... current b82 doesn't need a supplementary route b/w the kings hwy sta & flatlands/rockaway pkwy.... where you have the 2 routes overlapping is the main concern I have w/ your idea....

 

for one, terminal space is a problem @ Rockaway parkway...

two, reading your ideas the way you have them, you'd be screwing Starrett City residents of direct service to the L... although it seems as if most take the B83, a good portion still do take the b82....

 

I don't doubt that there are ppl. that take that commute from Canarsie to Cropsey (matter fact, I know someone that does that; she gets off @ Bay pkwy/cropsey; works in the mall there.... but most 82 riders I notice, that embark from areas south & west of the kings hwy sta {B/Q} along the route, don't go no further than flatbush av.... where the 82 & the 7 diverge.....

 

You raise a good point though.

 

I await the rest of your ideas bro(B35).

probably won't be many more.... but regardless, thanks for the reply.

 

 

 

 

....and S78 Hylan... thanks to you too, bro.

[jacsnyy]

I love the B71 idea. I heard from a Spring Creek Operator that the B103 will move to 7 day a week service starting in the fall. I don't know is its true. I'd move the Downtown Brooklyn B69's path from 8th Avenue to Vanderbilt Avenue. Instead of going up Union Street, because of that massivre conjestion, move it via 8th Avenue to Flatbush, North on Flatbush for a few blocks, around Grand Army and onto Vanderbilt. Though, it seems longer, it may save some time not moving on Union St between 8th Avenue and the Park.

 

Another reroute that I think would be effective is instead of the Northbound B44 going via Fulton Street, have the B44 go from New York Avenue to Bedford Avenue via Bergen Street to avoid more conjestion.

 

How bout a merge or a summer extention of the B2 to Rockaway Park via the Q35?

[Shortline Bus]

I love the B71 idea. I heard from a Spring Creek Operator that the B103 will move to 7 day a week service starting in the fall. I don't know is its true. I'd move the Downtown Brooklyn B69's path from 8th Avenue to Vanderbilt Avenue. Instead of going up Union Street, because of that massivre conjestion, move it via 8th Avenue to Flatbush, North on Flatbush for a few blocks, around Grand Army and onto Vanderbilt. Though, it seems longer, it may save some time not moving on Union St between 8th Avenue and the Park.

 

Another reroute that I think would be effective is instead of the Northbound B44 going via Fulton Street, have the B44 go from New York Avenue to Bedford Avenue via Bergen Street to avoid more conjestion.

 

How bout a merge or a summer extention of the B2 to Rockaway Park via the Q35?

 

Only problem w/ your idea of the B69 change around Grand Army Plaza is some riders mainly seniors/disabled might complain about the long walk to the main branch of the Brooklyn Public Libabry.

[BrooklynBus]

Now I'm stretching? You asked for one specific intersection... That's the one I chose to give... so it happened to be reconfigured.... the lights aren't situated the same... I said there are others along Gerritsen av that don't have any lights at all... more selective reading on your part, I suppose...

 

I can't believe how quiet everyone was during our discussion / argument, however you want to call it. Just to conclude, all I asked you is if you are sure that there were once lights all along Gerritsen that have been removed and replaced with stop signs? If the answer is yes, then I will admit I was wrong in stating that lights are never removed once installed.

 

Never disputed that bus service has generally gotten slower due to traffic signals being installed all over the borough(s)... That still doesn't mean that the B12 is the slowest route in the borough like you may remember it as being.... that's where this part of the discussion about traffic lights came in to play and you know it....

 

But yeah, I'm through w/ this particular discussion also.... I care about the present & the future when it comes to buses & the routes they travel on.... You can keep on living in the past if you want; tailoring your thoughts & proposals to how things were in the 70's & comparing them to how things are today...

 

I never insisted that the B12 is still the slowest route.

 

And I don't care only about the past, although I do remember it.

 

* minor B4 routing in Sheepshead bay; bi-directional service on Emmons, to current terminal...

 

That was the original routing of the B4 when it was extended to Sheepshead Bay. It was changed after three years, because of extreme traffic congestion along Emmons Av eastbound during summer weekends. You may be right though. I'm not sure how wise of a decision that was and I think traffic is better there nowadays.

[libbystat]

At the end of July, Brooklyn is opening the third hydrogen fueling station in New York. As far as I know, however their are no hydrogen buses running only cars. So, my suggestion is to get a hydrogen hybrid bus or two running and help clean up the emissions from the diesel burning buses.

[EE Broadway Local]

Sounds nice about the B67 extensiion to Fulton Landing/Furman. The Spring 2009 B67 schedule calls Sands/Jay Streets DUMBO.

 

Would late night service be hourly between 2:00 and 5:00am?

[R68 Subway Car]

I would put extra buses on the Flatbush Avenue Bus Depot Services such as the B41 and B46.

[Shortline Bus]

I would put extra buses on the Flatbush Avenue Bus Depot Services such as the B41 and B46.

 

Or ABOUT ARTICS FOR Flatbush and just new buses for ulmer park.