yeayo

Looks like if the cancels the R179 order, it's going to damage Bombardier hard.

R179 will not be cancelled. Federal funds are allocated for the project. MTA would have to return the money to the FTA. Makes no sense when production cars in process at this point. 

Nothing that's news to me. Was just saying that there were two cars not sets cars of 179s in but I didn't ask where becaus he got talking about other stuff. Not sure where his source was and he mentioned that they're the MTA is hoping to get the production trains in service by time the 2nd av subway open. So... not sure if the test train is an 8 car or 10car set. Other than that he was just sharing his experiences with operating different equipment hates the 46s but likes that 68/68A even told me off topic the 68s used to be able to hit 70 but that's all.

There is no way the production cars will be operating by the time the second ave extension opens (if it opens at the end of the year). The prototype consist will need to complete qual testing and burn in, which usually takes up to a year or more, before production cars can even enter service. From what I know, the 179's haven't been delivered yet. Therefore, the earliest I can see production cars running, unless MTA tries to accelerate the testing period for the prototype cars, is sometime next summer or fall.

What about the Chinese? Seems like they're trying to under bid everyone.

I am not sure if the Chinese will be qualified in time for the RFP. 

When is the R211 to be awarded? Also wondering who has placed bids on it?

The RFP needs to be released first. Then, it is usually 8-9 months for the selection process. I would guesstimate before the end of next year the car builder will selected. 

I watched some of yesterday's board meeting and it was noted that the Chinese are in the process of qualifying themselves as a carbuilder for MTA. I don't believe they will be qualified in time for the R211 order but they will provide serious competition to Bombardier, Alstom, and Kawasaki on future procurement's especially if their cars perform well on other contracts they have won in US so far (Boston, Chicago, and potentially LA).

They can couple to each other since they have the same coupler head, but with the different mechanical portions, one would have to tow the other along.

 

The R143/160/179 are all classified in the same subway car generation, with the R211 being the next generation of cars. Seems like a HUGE oversight.

Again, I don't understand why it is a huge oversight. NYCT doesn't run mixed consists. 

Exactly. Adding to that, the main differences between the R143 and R160 (as far as I know as I am not a mechanic) are the FINDS, propulsion, and kind of lights on the ends. The R160 was awarded in 2002. The R143s were still coming in then so how technology could have been too different is not a good excuse. We're not talking an R143/R160/R179 to R211 leap here.

I am certain if the R143's and R160's were ran in a mixed consist the FINDS system wouldn't work. Different communication networks and different signals. Again, I am not electrical guy but that's just from my experience working on other projects.

The 143 and 160 were supposed to be so identical mechanically, "that the mechanics couldn't tell them apart". So you're saying they at the last minute decided to advance something, throwing backward compatibility out the window?

Not sure what you are asking. If an authority wants backwards compatibility, it needs to be written in the tech spec. So far, NYCT hasn't had that requirement in any of their contracts. It would make sense if NYCT ran mixed consists in revenue service but from my understanding, they keep the fleets separated. 

You know, for trains that are half built by the same company, that's one hell of an oversight.

It is not an oversight. Backwards compatibility limits what new technology can be put on train due to interface concerns. NYCT wants to move forward with every car order not backwards. I am certain the mechanical couplers are compatible between each other in the event a rescue is needed. 

Maybe it's the lighting, but the one on the left, presumably the new 179 car, looks kind of beat up.

Stainless steel's appearance changes depending on lighting. It can look clean in low lighting but on a bright day you can see all the smudges and dirt on it. 

NYCTF Exclusive!!!

 

Good morning ladies and gentleman. According to new information I have received from Bombardier, they are aggresively tackleing the previous R179 problems and are are now confident they can bid on the R211 contract along with Kawasaki!

Of course they are going to bid on it. It's a massive car order. However, I think the Chinese may bid as well which will put both Bombardier and Kawasaki at disadvantage price wise. 

Bombardier did not manufacture its own propulsion system when the R142s were built. The propulsion on the R142As wasn't developed by Bombardier, it was developed by ADtranz, which was later bought by Bombardier. ADtranz at the time belonged to Daimler (manufacturer of Mercedes-Benz vehicles). This is why Bombardier used Alstom motors on the R142s.

Yea, you're right 142's used Alstom propulsion.

I know it's perfectly normal, but since Bombardier didn't really use their own propulsion system yet in the city, it's gonna take me a while to get used to it.

? Bombardier propulsion is already on the R142 (Bombardier), R142a (Kawasaki), R143 (Kawasaki), and R188 (Kawasaki). 

"Used to" - Key phrase. Things may or may not have changed quite a bit since you ceased active involvement with the project. So once again, time will tell how things pan out. As much as resurrecting old Adtranz/Bombardier would make my day (my fav propulsion in terms of sound), it just seems more sustainable to manufacture propulsion that the MTA has more of. However, on the same token, the advantage of maintaining the same propulsion across the R188 fleet is also evident.

 

My involvement ended about 6 months ago. At that time I left, the design was already finalized and procurement and inspections were already going through. I doubt anything has changed since then.

Point or no point, I'd wait for credible evidence to support a claim. One can still argue at this point that there is no point to manufacture decade old propulsion systems to decade old specifications.

 

All I can say is I used to work very closely on R188.

They haven't made any propulsion changes with the conversion sets. We'll have to wait 'till around Christmas to see what they use in the brand new sets.

 

The propulsion is going to the be essentially the same for compatibility purposes. Some subcomponents in the actual equipment for the new cars will be different because of obsolescence and high failure rates.