DaimlerBuses

674, 675, and 676 are all in New York somewhere, and 677 would be next, followed by 673.

 

 

From what I am being told MTA wants to try out Allison now. They were not completely satisfied with the previous BAE system. Not only that, but the series hybrid system is not efficient on all the routes MTA has hybrid buses deployed on and they want to see if they will get greater efficiency the Allison parallel system. The BAE is costing the MTA much more to maintain than they expected it would. The buses in Queens for the most part are not fuel effient because they have so many routes that reach high speeds. In Manhattan, and Brooklyn the buses are more efficient because of the stop an go environment they are in. You know how the MTA is. Similar situation is the fact that they aren't too happy with Luminator, so the next 3 orders are confirmed for Hanover Displays.

 

I personally think the Allison is better for NY as I did from day one actually. Not to say that they aren't good systems because they definitely are. However, they belong in Manhattan. The new system is likely more efficient than the old, yet MTA wants to try out the Allison EP Drive at this time.

While I understand their reasoning for wanting to try the Allison system, I think they're going to be disappointed if they think the Allison system is going to be better than what BAE's putting out now. I may be staking a radical position...but I think the technology has matured enough over the years on both sides (Allison and BAE) that the old "Series hybrids for slow speeds, parallel hybrids for higher speeds" rationale of the past is irrelevant. It's a wash at the end of the day in terms of overall performance and the data would seem to prove that. Of course there are various factors that can affect fuel economy other than the operating profile, such as the software settings.

The truth is, it is generally accepted now that hybrid buses have a higher maintenance cost regardless of what system is employed and/or usage profile. The first few years the per mile cost looks great because all the expensive stuff is insulated by warranty coverage.

I also find it interesting that the order for 75 hybrids will have Allison hybrid systems. BAE has been making inroads to several properties by using an aggressive pricing strategy (as of right now their system is priced roughly 50-60k less than the Allison from what I've seen).

That said, the MTA already has tons of buses with Allison transmissions, so it's not like they didn't previously do business with Allison or anything.

I'm NOT surprise that we'll get XN40s. Calgary tested the Nova LF CNG and then just dropped out of sight.

Not sure what you mean as Nova has won a few orders for the LFS CNG already. Buffalo and Hamilton, Ontario come to mind instantly. 

It aint the batteries that gave the OGs issues, it was the hybridrive systems on at least a handful of them. The only NG that really went up in flames was 4002, which was because of driver error several years ago.

 

If only we went with parallel hybrid systems, little to no problems across the board. I've been on a few in Seattle and they're not too bad.

I agree and disagree. The BAE hybridrive has had it's fair share of issues as you stated, and the batteries are no exception to that. Also remember that both the BAE and Allison systems had their fair share of teething issues when they were first introduced. Seattle had many issues with battery life and state of charge (to the point extra batteries had to be added to later orders) and finding a engine that could adequately power the hybrid system for their needs. One thing I found surprising was that Seattle is in the process of replacing the current NiHM batteries in their Allison hybrids with Lithium batteries as they fail.

Both the Allison and BAE hybrids have come a long way since that you can't even compare them to early versions. For example, even the first version of the BAE hybrids had many component changes over the years, and the new design introduced in 2010 is not even comparable to the earlier hybridrive systems. 

From what I was told, the bean counters decides it would be cheaper to keep the buses as they are now

BAE and Orion engineering* are also working on a number of revisions to help improve the reliability of the existing fielded hybrid systems. Has NYCT had the dedicated air intake for the motor/generator retrofitted in the OG hybrids like the NG hybrids have? Toronto has recently had it retrofitted in their OG hybrids. There was also discussion about moving the hybrid control system (PCS) on the OGs to the roof like the NGs to help with reliability, but I'm not sure what the progress is on that.

*I know Orion isn't in the business of selling buses anymore. But they still have a few people on staff to oversee that service is being provided to existing fleets, and to assist where necessary.

Sweet. Batteries nowadays are so much better than they were when those OGs and even NGs were built. I assume the MTA went with the cheapest, explodiest, batteries they could possibly find, though. Or the most expensive and least efficient batteries they could find. Seems to always be that way with them: cheapest/worst or most-expensive/worst.

No, they got whatever came standard with the BAE Hybridrive at the time.

I've noticed with the 3G's (and I think one of the '09 NGs) that drivers can open the front AND rear doors but how do they do it?

Rear door override switch, a standard feature on most transit buses. When the rear door override is selected the rear doors will open when the door handle is placed in the Rear door positions.

Yesterday, a local transit fan organization in Toronto chartered a TTC 1996 Orion V (7000-7134) for a photo trip. At 18 years old and over a million km's travelled, these buses are being phased out by the end of the year with the continuing arrival of 153 Nova LFS articulated buses. Of the 135 buses, only around 70 are still active. There is another batch of 50 1996 Orion Vs (9400-9449) that were originally CNG but converted to diesel in the mid 2000s and they will also be phased out. Starting next year, the 52 Nova RTS buses from 1998 will be phased out, replaced with a order of 55 Nova Bus LFS 40' buses.

A few shots from the photo trip yesterday:






 

That, and the fact that Series is not as expensive as Parallel. BAE actually offers both now, as well as a new Hybrid system that uses more electric and can completely operate on battery alone, so the buses can be shut off before entering the depot, and keeping the air inside clean.

BAE does not offer a parallel system for transit buses. Their parallel system is only available in certain truck applications. The "new system" you're referring too is not a new hybrid system but rather an add on to the existing BAE system that was developed jointly with Orion (but was released into field testing by New Flyer in 2012). The system replaces the traditional alternator and is capable of electrifying A/C, Steering, compressors to name a few in addition to what you mention. This arrangement will likely become the standard configuration in the near future.

Well then, I'm sorry New Flyer. The way you said it made it seem as if they failed something so simple. Do you know exactly what they get tested on, for the MTA to be so strict?

Everything that is specified in the RFP specifications, so to put things in context a bus could be failed for something as simple as a sticker missing or in the wrong place.

Better for longer runs and has more power in em. It's why the NGs after 3959 have them.

To expand, the reason some of the lead acid-lithium retrofits have those weird designs is because they were retrofitted in the early stages of the lithium -ion battery development/implementation and use some of the original mounting points/hardware of the lead acid batteries.

It should also be noted the Orion VII uses angled bellows, 2 airbags per axle, somewhat not standard compared to other buses in North America, but very common with buses in other places such as the UK. Most other North American buses use 4 airbags per axle.

They are replacing the doors since they are defective as they are under warrenty Orion is footing the bill

Vapor is the one footing the bill on that one.