nu1116

This mess happened just about the same time as I started my commute back home...

At about 5:30 PM, I was at Atlantic Ave waiting for the ...

All , , and trains were running express from Atlantic Ave to 36th St at that time.

The headway for all three lines were like 20 minutes...

I was always under the impression that the West End Line had higher ridership than the Sea Beach Line and that's why from 1986 to 2010 the West End had two lines - ( B )/(Mx) (1986-1988); (:)/(Mx) (1988-2001); (W)/(Mx) (2001-2004) and finally (D)/(Mx) from 2004 to 2010, when the (Mx) and became the current service. During that 24-year period the Sea Beach Line had just the , except for the seven weeks after 9/11/01 when the was suspended and the (Mx) replaced it in Brooklyn and the three trains that ran to/from Kings Highway in the 2004-2010 period. No need to send a full second service to the Sea Beach, but there may be a good reason to send one to the West End. "May" is the key word here as I've read that the seems to be handling the West End decently on its own.

 

The local is not a great solution. It is that bad. It ties up the junction at Prince Street and holds up both and service in that area. It was made local because the doesn't run frequently enough to serve 49th, 28th, 23rd, 8th and Prince on its own. The MTA could just run more trains, but they claim they don't have the money to do so. But then again, they could have done that all along (i.e. back in 2004) before they got hit with that huge funding crisis, courtesy of our friends in the State Legislature.

In the past, the West End had higher ridership than the Sea Beach, but according to the 2010 ridership statistic, both lines have similar ridership, with the West End a little bit higher. This may be simply because the West End has more stations, however. The Sea Beach's ridership is increasing in a faster rate.

Bay Parkway is the only station on the West End that has more than 2 millions riders in 2010, while the Sea Beach has 3, they are 8th Ave, Fort Hamilton Parkway, and Bay Parkway. That is why I said that extending to the Sea Beach actually benefits more people. Unfortunately, it isn't going to work. Both lines don't need a second service anyway.

86 St-Gravesend is a terrible place for a terminal because any train that terminates there will still have to go to Coney Island to relay. The yard lead-ins are northbound from the Manhattan-bound track between 86 St & Stillwell Av. That's why the only reason the ended there was during the time when Stillwell Terminal was being rebuilt.

Now I got it. Thank You.

The problem is there isn't any room available for the to terminate on the Sea Beach Line. Again the can't run to Coney Island.

Exactly. There were only 3 trains that went to Kings Highway. Not exactly reason enough to send the there. West End line at 9th av or Bay Pkwy makes more sense because the middle tracks allows for the train to relay back north without affecting the .

I am not asking for a second service to the Sea Beach. In fact, neither the Sea Beach nor the West End needs a second service. What I wanted to convey in the previous post was that extending to the Sea Beach serve more people than doing so to the West End.

BTW, in response to your posts, it seems like 86th St can serve as a terminal since it has direct access to the CI Yard. (12 stops, I know...)

I am not good at reading track map, current me if I am wrong.

The problem is the would then have to completely run local. I don't think many people like that. Even now I hear complaints all over with the running local. It's best that the return full time to the Broadway Line and Astoria Line, but part time on the Fourth Avenue Line and the West End Line.

First of all, hello everyone, I am a new member but I have been here for a long time as a guess.

It seems like you always want a second service to the West End. By looking at the ridership statistics , I never think it is necessary. Yes, the Fourth Avenue Line does need more service, but not for the West End Line. If a second local service is coming to the Fourth Avenue Line and it can be extended 10 more stops south of 36th ST, the Sea Beach would be a better choice than the West End since this service pattern serves more potential riders. (Do the math...)

Running the local in Manhattan isn't that bad. What I hate the most is when south bound and meet at Union Square. When this happens, most of the time the will be held at Prince St for a few minutes.