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Yes, there were but car #'s are not my specialty.

If there is any reason for bar car placement it's probably so that it's closer to the block at GCT more foot traffic most people pass through from the south end. Perhaps even they're easier to load from the south end of the platforms in GCT since the commissary is by the elevators. Though it's mentioned in MNR OBSM(On-Board Service Manual) that bar cars are placed in the train in an area that would normally be open for service, I can't imagine any bar car trains having closed cars during the rush hour, so all the cars on a train would be open anyway. But more than that I would think it's purely coincidental. Sort of like bathroom cars on bomb trains, they could be anywhere.

OK, but what about the area where the cab is open for people to walk through the cars? Are those windows locked?

Windows should be locked, doors in the middle of the train will be unlocked.

M8 has to operate with full cab at engineers end. FRA regulation do to firemans side window type, no passengers up front.

Well actually the M8 ADU(aspect display unit) doesn't conform to the NORAC signal aspects. Where as the BL20's ACSES system doesn't conform(figure that). So before they could even be tested there would have to be a modification to the M8's. But they're not in a rush for these things to be tested on the non-MNR portions of the NEC, with all the problems that have been happening this winter on MNR.

There were talks of MNR adopting ACSES on the New Haven line, but those talks probably won't come up again until the M8 order is filled and most of the older New Haven EMU's are retired. No sense in modifying equipment that's soon to be scrapped.

As far as freight trains on MNR property, they have to be compatible with MNR's cab signals. The ACSES system is backwards compatible with the older 4 aspects systems so freight trains don't need full ACSES capabilities over the NEC. Plus, I'm pretty sure the portions of the NEC adjacent to MNR territory aren't ACSES equipped anyway.

My guess is we won't see any extension of third rail by Amtrak until there is some kind of agreement to test the M8's over the Hell Gate.

 

You'd know better than I would, but I've read and been told many times that the two main reasons that the M8's cannot operate using the current 12 kV/25 Hz catenary system between GATE and HAROLD are the 25 Hz transformers not being installed due to weight issues and lack of space and the change to a 25 kV/60 Hz system being a lot more costly than installing a third rail. I did hear something about NEC-operational compatibility as an option that was ordered for a some of the M8's, but this was a long time ago, and I've since heard only third rail talk. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. Thanks.

Actually you're right, checking some notes, I made some switcheroos by accident. The original plan was to operate under the 3 voltages, but now only 2, due to weight constraints. However, the adjustable third rail is not installed on the M8's so it hasn't been tested yet. It would require Amtrak to extend the third rail up to Gate to operate into NYP. Also the M8's have not been tested under 25K/60hz, or ACSES as of yet.

Awesome, but is there any plans to make the M8's also run on the LIRR for certain extra services outta Penn or no?

 

 

 

So, I guess it can't take the SLE either...

The M8's are for Metro North railroad only, not LIRR. However, the M8's are designed to run on under Amtrak's wire as well. So the adjustable 3rd rail shoes seem unnecessary. M8's will be used in regular Metro-North service for now, they have not been tested on the SLE or any other non-MNR portions of the NEC. The plan is to have equipment capable of running on the Shore Line and be able to go into NYP, IF that kind of service is ever attempted. Note that the M8's are will be the only kind of passenger equipment that will be able to operate into both GCT and NYP without modification.

I am of the opinion that their problems were overblown by the media, coupled with how long it takes a vehicle to travel 4,000 miles.

From New Haven to GCT, it would only take about 2 1/2 weeks to rack up 4,000 miles. Problem not the miles but making sure that things actually work, and not having to start all over again from zero.

I don't see why the engineers should wear uniforms, when it's the conductor's job to provide customer service and collect fares.

No ACSES, just CTC with cab signals. The line north of CP 75 is actually owned by CSX not Amtrak.

FYI: For anyone who doesn't know what ACSES stands for, it's Advanced Civil Speed Enforcement System.

 

Now this may have been answered already somewhere else, but since all of the NEC will eventually upgrade to ACSES, is the LIRR planning on converting as well? And do the M-7's already have provisions for ACSES, or will they have to be retrofitted? I imagine that the M-9's will have ACSES installed on them when they are eventually delivered several years from now.

No, the M7's do not have ACSES capabilities. The M7's will not run on the New Haven for obvious reasons(no third rail on the NH). So no need for M7's to have ACSES. From what I hear now, MNR currently has no plans to install ACSES on the Hudson or Harlem lines.