BrooklynIRT

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qWhA3Yty4fM/TZkmEMlBgRI/AAAAAAAAKuM/aUCWhR8RGys/s1600/Epic_Facepalm_by_RJTH%2525255B1%2525255D%255B1%255D.jpg Please ignore the "you fail that much" part. I respect most of your ideas to improve service, but still and all... AGAIN with the Junction and its purported lack of safety? Gddamnit! Anything can happen anywhere! We are not talking about the freaking Broadway Junction or Zoo Lots Avenue! If people have such a problem with the Junction, please explain to me why ridership at the Brighton express stations south of Newkirk has been on the decline over the past few years while ridership at the Junction was at a five year high last year.

Correct.

Thanks. The entire B32 is on that map. The B1 to Knapp Street is a very important part of my plans. I actually was thinking about various possibilities for the B1 and other routes while I was typing my post, so I guess this caused my posts to be rather discombobulated. I actually wanted the B1 to stay the same west of Ocean Pkwy, but reroute it to Knapp St (so it no longer serves KCC) east of Ocean Pkwy. I got this idea from a thread you created a while back ("Why is Sheepshead Bay so complacent about bus service?"), to which B35 posted a response saying that the B4 with its service to a small stretch of the 86 St shopping area is not very attractive to those who live in Sheepshead and want to go to 86 St for recreation. On the other hand if you connect the real 86 St bus (B1) to Sheepshead Bay, I think more people in Sheepshead, especially in Plumb Beach, will want to ride this east-west bus service than the B4, and thus the new east-west bus in Sheepshead Bay (B1) can have better headways than the current east-west bus (B4). Then something can be sent to KCC to replace the B1 and maybe that route can have very good service levels (5-6 mins rush hours, 8-10 mins off-hours) since KCC is a major trip generator and the route would also serve places like Coney Island, Caesar's Bay, etc. Thus perhaps there could be even more justification for "very good" service levels. For better or for worse, I wish to exhaust every avenue to get service on every NYCT bus line in operation to what I consider "very good" service levels. I have this compulsion and it results in my making rather unorthodox proposals in an attempt to get service on as many bus lines as possible to these levels, because my fear or notion is that if service is not good enough on a bus line, the ridership is not easily sustainable, and the bus line remains mired in mediocre to crappy service levels forever (read: Bx10, which I dealt with for almost 20 years and generally do not wish to deal with ever again) and nobody wants to deal with said bus line (Bx10 or others). But anyway, this is the gist of it: You said there needs to be a reason for the patronage to materialize. If the B1 went to Knapp Street (and the line stayed on 86 St from 4th Ave to McDonald Ave), the reason for the patronage to materialize would be that the people that live around Emmons Ave and Belt Pkwy would have a direct bus route to all of 86 St, and hopefully the route would have "very good" service levels. Again this is assuming we keep the B1 on 86 St from 4th Ave to McDonald Ave. Mysterious2train: Ha. Right now we have the coming from the depths of Brownsville and East New York and making stops along Flatbush Ave in Park Slope, and you also have the B82, which comes from Coney Island/Starrett City and makes stops in Midwood, among other transit lines, so I doubt the people would make a big deal about it.

My contention is that perhaps the fewer the buses that have to make the acute angle turn, the better. Even if the short B103s cannot be taken out of the equation, at least something (the Q35s) can be taken out of the equation. Another way to go about it would have been to have the Q35s go up Flatbush, left on "H" to terminal at northeast corner of Nostrand & "H" (like now), then make the terminal the same as the first stop heading towards Rockaway Park, or move the first stop to the southwest corner of Nostrand & "H" instead. Either way it could funnel more people through the exit at the south end of the subway station, and I mention this because it could be beneficial: It could decrease the number of people that have to cross the platform bridge at the south end of the station (if they exit a train that arrives on the west track), since everybody that wants the Q35 could just go out the south end and thus travel the same distance through the station regardless of which track their train has terminated on.

Although come to think of it I do understand your concern: Flatbush Ave drivers (not those of the buses, but those of other vehicles) tend to be nutcases on the road, and said nutcases could conflict with people crossing "H" along Flatbush, while said nutcases are trying to make left turns and whatnot.

Yeah, probably the corner where the Target entrance is. On "H", just before the signal at Flatbush. You cannot please everybody. Making a tight turn not only slows things down; it also constitutes a safety issue in some ways because it is pretty easy for a long vehicle to jump the curb when making such a turn. Requires the vehicle to swing out a lot in order to clear the curb.

You think the new turnaround is good because "H" is congested, when the new turnaround means that the buses use "H" to turn around, which you said was congested? Maybe you meant the westbound side of "H". I like the new turnaround because it enables the buses to turn faster (unlike before when they had to make an "acute angle" turn) and will probably result in the B44s being held up less around the Junction. No, the buses will no longer stop on Flatbush between Nostrand and "H". They make the right on "H" and head back down Flatbush to the Rockaways from there. It would not make sense for the buses to go from "H" to anywhere on Flatbush north of "H". It would greatly complicate the routing.

Do you mean that you just want people to comment on your ideas and/or those that were already posted, and avoid posting new ideas? It is difficult to do that because in providing constructive criticism we tend to indicate exactly what we would change about somebody's particular idea. This essentially equates to us posting our [new] ideas. I am not fantasizing. I am trying to eliminate circuitous routes; make them as straight as possible (within reason). This is exactly why I wanted to change the B16 and B70. They are both quite circuitous in Bay Ridge. Having the B1 and B82 replace the B4 is my attempt at giving the people who live along the B4 better service, because the B4 is infrequent while the B1 and B82 are frequent. Would they really cut service on the B1 (east of Ocean Parkway or wherever) if they sent it to Knapp St instead of KCC? Would they really cut service on the B82 (west of Stillwell or wherever) if they sent it to Narrows instead of Caesar's Bay/Coney Island? I wanted to extend the B64, B67, and B70 because I was trying to figure out how to boost ridership on those lines so that they could pick up more people and justify better service frequencies. The B67 would partially replace the B23 if it went down 16th Ave. Although come to think of it they could send the B67 via Church and then 13th/14th Aves to replace the B16 and then the B16 could be straightened even more by being sent straight up Fort Hamilton Pkwy. The B16 would probably still operate via 12th Ave northeast of 36/37 Sts though. I wanted the B67 to go to the VA because that could be a big trip generator. If not there then perhaps Caesar's Bay. Also I was trying to avoid proposals that would require too many additional resources that may not be easily available, which is why I think the people should just transfer to the B1 (well, according to my proposals it would then be the B3 instead) if they want 86. Besides, when the B1 went to Xaverian the people tended to take the B1 to the B63 (due to their superior service levels) to get to 86/4th Ave, rather than the B64. Although when it comes to service levels the B64 is not as bad as the B4 from what I understand. The B1 heading straight down Emmons and perhaps looping via East 14 and East 15 requires people to take a longer walk to the than the B4 currently does, but the people would also be getting more frequent service between Knapp and SB station than they currently do. Maybe they could even have 24-hour east-west service to Knapp. Should have clarified in the other post that the whole reason why the loop via East 14/15 is better than going straight down Emmons (with no diversion) is that you have the footbridge over the Belt Pkwy that connects East 14/15 Sts loop to SB station.

cotb16: The B11 to Bergen Beach instead of the B41 seems like a very good idea. The headways for service between Bergen Beach and Junction should NOT be 20 minutes and greater on the weekends though like they are now. Of course I have this compulsion to get it to the point where no bus route operates at headways worse than 8-10 minutes off-hours, but there is only so much to work with. I think this should be done in southern Brooklyn: -Current B1: KCC to 4th Ave New B1: Knapp St-Shore Pkwy (or someplace further north on Knapp) to ~4th Ave via Emmons (eastbound via Shore Pkwy service road south), Neptune, Ocean Pkwy, Ave "X", 86 St, 25 Ave (note new service to Caesar's Bay), Cropsey Ave/Poly Pl, 7th Ave, 92 St, and end it somewhere around 86 or 95. Probably 86 so that there is no need to worry about otherwise finding a way for the B1 to connect to the future S79 SBS. Knapp St service replaces the B4. The reason I am sending the B1 to Knapp St is that I am trying to make frequent east-west bus service to/from Knapp St. Also the B1 really gets into the shopping/hangout areas out west. The B4 does not get into those areas like the B1 does. Alternatively the B1 could operate via Emmons/Shore Pkwy, Sheepshead Bay Rd, "Z", East 12 and Neptune in order to better serve SB station. But this would make it more circuitous. Instead, maybe the buses can loop via East 14, Shore Pkwy service Rd south, and East 15, then get back on Emmons and continue in whichever direction they were going. This would be similar to the B17 buses that serve Paerdegat Basin and stop at Rockaway Pkwy-Glenwood Rd and would not be as much of a hindrance to the passengers that want to go past Sheepshead Bay station. -New B3: No more Caesar's Bay. Send via current B1 route, then down 4th Ave, then via Marine Ave to 86 St or someplace along Marine just south of 86. I was thinking of just ending it at 92 St. This change would give people along the water easier access to the . The B16 is rather circuitous now since it meanders around the back and seems to be a rather roundabout means of reaching the . -New B16: Coming from Prospect Park, it should operate via Bay Ridge/Ovington Aves and then down 3rd Ave to the end of that street (at Shore Rd) and end there. Or, perhaps it could go down 4th Ave and make a right on 86, then go to the end of that street (at Shore Rd) and end there. This replaces the current B70. -New B70: Bring back the old route. Circuitousness gone. Extend it somewhere if possible. Maybe via Cropsey, Neptune, and Coney Island and Brighton Beach Aves and Oriental Blvd to KCC. This extension would replace the B82 south of Bay Pkwy. Also see new B64 below. -New B64: Re-extend to Stillwell via Bath and/or Harway (I was thinking Bath and Harway could be a one-way pair east of 25th Ave). Possible extension to KCC. If both the B64 and B70 go to KCC, the B70 can actually be the express/limited to the B64 east of Stillwell. The B64 would operate via Stillwell, Surf, West 5th, West Brighton Ave, Brighton Beach Ave, and Oriental Blvd. Otherwise terminate it at Stillwell and send the B70 to KCC via Cropsey, Neptune, West 5th, West Brighton and Brighton Beach Aves, then Oriental. -New B82: No more B82 south of Bay Ridge Pkwy. Instead, send it via Kings Hwy, Stillwell, and Bay Ridge Pkwy to 77 St-Narrows Ave. Replaces the B4. -New B67: Extend to VA Hospital via 16th and Cropsey Aves. And the B49 should be changed back to the pre-1978 route. Note that the B64 and/or B70 would still provide service between KCC and the . The B4 can be eliminated entirely; the only problem is that I do not know what to do about Shell Rd and Ave "Z". Nothing I came up with in this post is providing service on "Z" between Shell Rd and Ocean Pkwy or on Shell Rd between "X" and "Z". I was thinking have the B1 go one way via Ocean Pkwy and "X", the other way via Shell Rd and "Z", but that would be a schlock solution. And for the other side of Brooklyn, I came up with the plan pictured below a year ago. It would allow the northbound B44 LCL to go up Rogers and the B49 to go up Ocean and across Empire. Just pay attention to the B32, not the B40: