lirr42

I think LIRR took a page from NICE, and didn't hold the connecting train at Huntington. ALOT of SUNY students transfer to that 7:07am diesel train. What a completely BS thing to do. A bunch of ppl were late for class today!

 

The 5:47AM train from Penn due Huntington at 6:57AM, is operating 27 minutes late due to congestion caused by a track condition in New Hyde Park. Customers looking to travel east of Huntington will be accommodated by bus. Buses are en route to Huntington but are not currently on scene.

There was bad congestion west of UN.  They had to send 604 east with or without its connection or else it would risk missing meets with 613 at FOX and 615 at STONY, messing things up for those trains with even more people on them.

And I think they've let 604 go a couple times anyways, for the most part the reverse-commute trains that go against the grain take a back seat to keeping the westbounds flowing, especially in single-track territory.

Just for giggles and grins I'm conducting a survey to see what people think the LIRR's most beautiful and ugliest stations are.  Voting ends midnight tomorrow and you can submit your votes with this form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1F-ngl71uqaLcd-SbvAcXmm8MlAhsZRlMQffZN2OIx6g/viewform

Very random, but imagine how a Montauk->Long Island City super-express with no intermediate stops would be shown on the public timetables...

Since Long Island City is not listed on the main timetables and the train doesn't stop at Jamaica (therefore the train wouldn't be shown in the small LIC boxes on all the schedules), it would either be listed as one random time all by itself on the Montauk schedule or not at all!

Could this be a preparedness program in case a major power outage hit the LIRR?

Nah, their diesel fleet is far too thin already.  This would mainly be for the summer when the LIRR is desperately short on equipment.  It's doubtful we would ever see something like what happened to the New Haven Line happen to the LIRR.  Third rail power transmission work much differently, and there are substations every 2 miles or so, so if something goes down, the slack can be picked up with minimal impact on service.

Have some spare rail equipment laying around in your backyard? Give the LIRR a call, they're looking for some:

LIRR Looking to Supplement Current Diesel Fleet

 

Yesterday, a Request for Expression of Interest popped up on the MTA's website saying that the LIRR was considering leasing some sort of supplemental diesel equipment to supplement the current fleet which is far too small to carry on like it is now.

From the RFEI: "MTA Long Island Rail Road (LIRR) is contemplating supplementing a portion of its current fleet of passenger diesel locomotives and passenger rail cars via a lease agreement. The LIRR is interested in obtaining sets of equipment which are highly reliable and are in good working order in the following configurations:

• "Group A: Up to five consist that contain two locomotives and seating for 420 passengers each
• Group B: Up to two consist that contain two locomotives and seating for 280 passengers each"

As it stands, the cars designated in "Group A" would supplement Oyster Bay Branch sets with trains of five cars seating 420 passengers (roughly 84 people per car, so a standard single-level coach would be more than sufficient).   "Group B" would be for two car sets that seat 280 passengers.  Two cars that can seat 280 passengers could be a bit tricky.  280 divided by two is 140 seats per car.  So that would very likely have to be a bi-level car of some sort.  Finding leftover/used equipment that are bi-levels and seat 140 people will be quite difficult, so I hope the LIRR's not going to adhere to that requirement all that strictly.

The document goes on to say that the cars have to have heat and AC and the like (consider yourselves lucky, that used to not be the case on many railroads!).  The document also says that the cars must be ADA accessible and able to board at high-level platforms.  The cars must also be able to meet all of the LIRR's clearance requirements (presumably including New York Penn).

The document then says that the equipment would be able to run at speeds as high as 80 m.p.h. (though there's not an inch of anything close to 80 m.p.h. territory east of Ronkonkoma and for the vast majority of the Oyster Bay branch).

There's not that much else to it.  It's basically just a "feeler" that the LIRR's putting out to see if anyone possibly has something that they would be able to lease to the LIRR.

So who could the LIRR possibly lease from?  It would have to be another passenger railroad, unless some random Joe Snobgrass is sitting around someplace with seven cars and four locomotives tied up in his backyard.  Because they would have to meet pretty tight clearance regulations, the only real candidates are other New York-area railroads.  Obviously the LIRR isn't going to lease stuff from themselves, so we can cross them off the list.  Moreover, Metro-North doesn't really have a surplus of Shoerliner coaches, and judging from their ongoing implosion on the New Haven Line, I'd think they'd quite like to keep what they have on their own rails, even if they aren't getting used.

The only candidate I can think of is NJTransit.  However, they're equipment took a hit after Hurricane Sandy and they are still yet to completely recover.  Of their 932 normally available coaches (both Comets and MLV's), 213 were damaged during Hurricane Sandy, and 54 of those have still yet to be returned to service.

If Hurricane Sandy hadn't happened I'd say NJTransit would be the best bet.  A while back they tried out the "Atlantic City Express Service" (ACES) where there would be a direct train from NYP and NWK to Atlantic City.  For that service, NJTransit acquired four hand-me-down P40's from Amtrak and the casino owners pitched in for eight specially modified MLV cars.  Since then, that service has gone belly up, and those locomotives and/or cars have been either damaged or pressed into everyday service on NJT.  The four P40's and eight MLV's would be perfect for the LIRR since they would positively fit every dimension in NYP, and very possibly on the whole railroad.

But with NJTransit's shaky recovery after Hurricane Sandy, I can't quite see them floating some cars over to the LIRR without having their full fleet restored in the first place.

Once you go outside the New York Metro things get dicey.  Other railroads might have surplus equipment, but if they can't work with the LIRR's pretty tight clearances and requirements, they won't be too good.  And while some out of the ordinary stock might be fine for the lowly Greenport Branch, where there are hardly any overpasses and all of them leave plenty of room, keep in mind that that equipment will have to touch the rest of the LIRR system at some point to get fueled and repaired.

Bottom line, I like what I'm seeing from the LIRR, their diesel fleet is far too small and it needs more cars and more locomotives, especially in the summer.  What they're doing is a smart move as any new equipment purchases (yes, even DMU's) are still years away from hitting the rails.   However, due to the unique characteristics of the LIRR,  I wouldn't hold your breath for the LIRR to get too many e-mails back about this.

 

Posted on: Saturday, October 05, 2013

See More Posts About: C3, DE, DM, DMU, Equipment, Other Railroads, Procurements

They're an FRA requirement

If Clark Street actually does get shut down for a year, this is basically how I see it being done EXCEPT the only runs to Brooklyn when there is enough capacity south of Brooklyn Bridge for the to run with the and to Brooklyn (obvious problem is between Brooklyn Bridge and Atlantic Avenue).

Just an idea, but maybe they can also extend the / via Montague full time to bridge the capacity gap between Brooklyn Bridge and Atlantic.

I would be suprised if any manufacturing or assembly happens in Yonkers. Case in point are the M8's. They were delivered here completed by rail. Why put the bodies on flat cars to deliver them to Yonkers just to put the trucks on (and other final assembly items)?

That is my thinking too.  The Yonkers plant is busy and will be busy for quite some time with subway cars, so I think the whole car being assembled coupler-coupler in Lincoln is not far fetched at all.

Yeah but in that you'd probably get a seat anyway.  MNRR trains tend to fill up (to the point of there not being any good seats) up in Westchester.  If they keep raising the prices though, there may be some more open seats.  The folks from the poor parts of Yonkers won't be able to afford to ride, so that will free up some seats for us working professionals.  I'm just counting down the time until the next fare hikes in 2015 & 2017. 

2703 gets mighty crowded as it moves west.  I'm sure to get a seat at Montauk, but as you move west, not so much.  And on the Friday evening trains, forget it.  If you misplace yourself on the platform at Jamaica you're screwed.  I stood all the way to Southampton once.  It was not fun.

I ride peak and off peak and people do not like sitting next to each other, me included.  We would rather stand.  Usually people that are sitting next to each other know each other (i.e. a family with kids sitting together)

But then there are those of us who's commute exceeds the half hour trip to Riverdale. I'll sit in the facing seat or the middle seat (hell, even that one little seat between the bathroom and the vestibule on the C3's) before I stand 3 hours to Montauk.

Honestly MNRR should get most of this order and they should give the M7s to LIRR all they have to do is change the 3rd rail shoes

If only it were that simple!  Not only would they have to change the third rail shoes but also do, oh, many, many other things....

Unless the plan to electrify the last part of the HarlemHUDSON line goes through (Poughkeepsie is willing to fund it) then they will need extra trains to replace the diesel trains because what's the point of electrifying a branch and not using electric trains? Of course they won't be finished anytime soon but still.

Without going through all of this again, electrifying the Empire Connection will never happen.  To much money to benefit too few people.

The real question is who is getting them... I think the Hudson Line still has some old ones left and I did not like riding those the times that I had them though the seats did feel a tad more comfy. I've been seriously thinking about switching to a monthly pass for MetroNorth even though I would only use it weekday mornings and continue with the express bus at night. The slow driving of the B/O's in the morning is driving me bonkers and that's taking into consideration how much I hate using peak Metro-North trains, even the newer M7 models.  Decisions, decisions...   As for the doors, I find them to be fairly reliable and open quickly even though it's just one door.

What's the question?  If Metro-North Pursues M9's they will replace the M3 fleet and complement the M7 fleet.  They can be assigned to whatever train on the H&H necessary.  Naturally, MN won't have as much demand for the M9's as the M3's use is currently limited to just overflow during rush hour and Metro-North isn't embarking on any more service expansions anytime soon (don't say what I know you're all thinking, the M9's wouldn't be used for that).

Wrong. See the news from Kawasaki above. The M9's will also be made for MNRR.

Actually, you're wrong.  That article immediately above is from the governor's office, and we know how thoroughly they check the facts.  The M9 base order will be for the LIRR only.  Metro-North will only be included for option cars if they so desire.

Looks like we got some more confusion on this...I was under the impression the cars were going to be assembled in Lincoln, NE like the M8's, as Kawasaki's plant in Yonkers currently has their hands full with the R188 subway cars...

Is it because there is no plastic/glass covering the rollsign?

As much as everyone loves to hate on the M3's these days, they do have their advantages. If I'm working a local Babylon stopping everywhere, I prefer the M3's. The doors close faster and the brakes release faster too. It makes a long and tedious trip a little more bearable.

Not to mention that M3's have about 138 more seats on a full 12-car train than M7's (and presumably the M9's) would.  That spare capacity is appreciated on certain rush hour trains!

They seem to be holding up pretty well as of now, so any sort of rehab or overhaul is still quite a ways away.

One could argue that that's even worse than LIRR because LIRR does have Jamaica as a bottleneck. I mean, sure they're bad with diverting trains but even with no disruptions Jamaica is a bottleneck. And then there's Penn which is shared with Amtrak who owns the place...

Amtrak was the #2 cause of delays in August 2013 for the LIRR (second only to the valued customers themselves).  Amtrak related service disruptions caused delays to 361 trains in August 2013, a 3,181% increase over last year.  And PSCC caused another 43 trains to be late in August.

LOL... Another reason NOT to move to Long Island... My Metro-North trains are pretty good with being on time, be it peak or off-peak.  The only rough spot was after the derailment, but service was smooth shortly after that was fixed. 

Hey, hey, hey, MN's System AM Peak OTP average was only 89.1% in August.  Not as bad as the LIRR's, but that 81.9% AM Peak OTP on the New Haven Line isn't very pretty (NHL had a 87.7% overall OTP for August)

The LIRR's August Operating Report prepared for Monday's LIRR Committee Meeting let loose the month of August's unsettling On-Time Percentage numbers, and they are not pretty. In August 2013 the LIRR achieved an overall 91.9% system OTP. However, the average OTP in the AM Peak period was an abysmal 84.3%. That's easily one of the worst AM peak OTP numbers I've ever seen, and it's probably safe to say that ranks among the worst in recent years.

In August 2013, the average lateness of trains was 15.2 minutes. In total 435 trains were over 15 minutes late this period, nearly double the amount of trains that were 15 minutes or more late this time last year. In August 2013, 78 trains were cancelled (well over three times as many as last year) and 42 trains were terminated before they reached their final destination (these 120 trains are not factored into the OTP numbers, so in reality, the numbers above are much worse).

EDIT: since the forum software keeps unformatting my tables (everything lines up properly in the posting box, but when I hit "submit" is scrambled everything around for some reason), I'll post a link to a page on my site which has a more detailed breakdown and analysis of the OTP numbers and the causes of delays for August 2013: http://thelirrtoday.blogspot.com/2013/09/august-otp-plummets-am-peak-among-worst.html

Awesome! But who wins the M9-A order then? Because the M9-A (which is supposedly for MNRR and LIRR) contract was supposed to handed out at almost the same time as the M9 contract IIRC.

The M9A is for LIRR only.

The question is why?? Why does the MNRR have larger gaps at their stations?

Because Subway stations do not have trains whizzing by them at speeds as high as 80 mph, because trains going at those speeds experience a lot of track hunting, because Subway stations do not have freight trains passing near them, because Subway stations are rarely on a curve, because Subway equipment is all one size (while MN cars are similarly sized, exact dimensions between types of MU, locos, and coaches varies slightly), because Subway tacks are rarely banked (1" banking = 1" gap), et cetera.

Well of course there are gaps. It just seems as if the MNRR gaps a bit wider than what I've seen at most subway stations.  

Comparing MN trains to Subway trains is comparing apples to oranges. 

-Why do the stations have that big gap? 

 

 

-Do they use any special mechanisms when helping wheelchair passengers get on and off of the train?

 

-They must keep that manual ramp handy.  I was wondering where it came from?

Gaps between the train and the station platform are necessary to allow trains to safely clear the side of the platform edge (including cushions for varied sized trains, stations on curves, and trains passing at speed).  Rail systems all around the world have gaps between the platform and the train.

Gap plates (or ramps), small steel plates a little wider than a wheelchair that are placed to safely bridge the gap between the platform and the train for wheelchairs, are often used to help disabled persons safely board and alight the train.  On M7's, they are stored in the Handicapt area, located at the B-end of every B-car (odd numbered cars).  They are also located in various similar locations in M3's and Shoreliners (usually near the handicap/toilet area) and on some station platforms.