Italianstallion

But one track will remain for future use.

http://www.mta.info/press-release/metro-north/metro-north-and-hudson-river-valley-greenway-invite-community-public

On September 28, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As Cait said, only on Staten Island, and that was mainly because of a few elected officials and a former board member expressing outrage and the need to address the problem, but when that the news outlets stopped focusing on it, it was basically business as usual.  I think this is sending the wrong message quite frankly.  There really isn't rampant fare beating on the SBS lines, with the exception of the Bronx lines like the Bx6 and Bx41.  From what I've seen with the Bx12, most people seem to get their tickets.  From what I've seen with the Q44, I would say the same thing.  With the Manhattan routes, there are only a few that don't and that's usually because they have no clue of what they're supposed to do because they're too lazy and too dumb to read.  I had a guy trying to get a ticket for the M79. Older guy.... I refused to assist him.  I get tired of being everyone's personal information booth because of their laziness and then they don't even address you properly. When I want information, I approach people as "Mam" or "Sir" and then ask my question like someone who is raised with manners does .  Furthermore, I wanted him to take the time to read like I do when I use the service. So after looking at the machines for a few seconds, he gave up and got a taxi.  

You seem like a nice fellow.

It needed everything it got. Did they put in new MVM machines? There's like two credit card only machines and two of the big ones, and usually only one of them works. I got so sick of walking all the way down the hill and not knowing if I can refill my Metrocard, that I just stopped altogether. I either do it in Manhattan or walk to Metro-North in Riverdale and refill once I get to Grand Central.

It is posible to refill your card from the agent, LOL. There's never a line for him/her.

If that's the case for the foreseeable future, that stop should have been closed a long time ago sometime after Lenox Terminal opened in 1968. In my opinion, I would have seen Intervale Avenue on the 2/5 trains be part of this initiative rather than 145th Street.

 

4 via Mosholu.

Unlike 148th St -- which is really at 149th St. -- 145th connects with crosstown buses. It's also on a different avenue.

like sending the to Starrett City because you'd delay the line with the trains merging)

 

 

 

 

The way to serve Starrett City is via the 3 from New Lots. Extend the line through the subway yard, then over the local streets through the  industrialized area into the Spring Creek mall, then west into Starrett City.

And the need to respond to a post from 2012 was...?

Yeah, my bad. Just opened the thread and saw this, did not notice the date.

Excuse me people, but the Hell Gate Bridge has room for only one more track. Google Maps shows me that there are three tracks being used for freight so there is only one available track. You have to buy a track from the freight railroads if you want to use an extra track and leave the other two for freight.

 

Google Maps images.

 

No, the Hell gate are 2 tracks for Amtrak and one for freight. An additional one can be added for commuter rail if needed.

To follow up on my previous post, here is the full information as it regards the 1951 version of the Second Avenue plans:

 

 

And here is the map of the Chrystie St area. Note the Second Ave - Nassau St connection

 

 

Also, for those interested, here is a full map of the 1951 subway expansion proposal (click for a PDF version)

 

 

The full proposal packet can be found here.

Interesting that a few of these things actually got done: the 180th St./ Dyer connection, the 11th St. cut, the Chrystie connection, the 6th Ave. express, the Culver/IND connection.  But the longer trunk lines did not.

I'd like to see an actual estimated cost difference between building the current version of Phase II and sending it up to 149th Street & Third Avenue. Surely the must have studied this option.

 

 

Especially since 'The Hub' is already an established center of activity, which itself validates the need for another subway line, connections aside. Maybe if the neighborhood were pumped and trumped up even more, it would catch more serious attention from the .

 

If Phase II does get built as currently planned, I hope they at least come around to building tail tracks on Second Avenue. We'll have both the and the services, so one can go to 125th Street and the other can go to 149th Street.

The Hub already has excellent subway service. Anyone wanting to get to the SAS from the Bronx need only transfer at 125th. That stop has the 4, 5 and 6 -- plus MNRR -- while the Hub only has the 2/5 as transfer connections.

Yes! In the 1950s there was a "Broadway Through-Express" that skipped several stops between 137 and Dyckman. I don't know the details; some Googling may reveal.

So, according to Wikipedia:

"On February 6, 1959, 1 trains began to run between 242nd Street and South Ferry all times. Trains began to be branded as Hi-Speed Locals, being as fast as the old express service was with new R21s and R22s on the line.[12][13] During rush hour in the peak direction, alternate trains, those running from 242nd Street, made no stops except 168th Street between Dyckman and 137th Streets in the direction of heavy traffic. The bypassed stations were served by locals originating from Dyckman Street.[14]

 I guess I would also look to history for possibilities was there ever an Upper Broadway Express? in the lines the line's 109-year history? 

 

 

Yes! In the 1950s there was a "Broadway Through-Express" that skipped several stops between 137 and Dyckman. I don't know the details; some Googling may reveal.

IDK if this stop selection can also work, but this is what I had in mind of a express north of 96 Street:

 

 

<1> EXPRESS

Stops at 242, Dyckman, 191, 181, 168, 157, 145 St (SB only) , 96 Street

 

There would be slightly less merging (at Dyckman, at 145 Street Northbound, and at 96 Street). Also, considering the amount of people who get between 96 Street and 157 Street, in addition to the amount of people who get on at 242 Street, you can have the services run every 6 minutes in the AM, and depart Van Cortlandt Park together (so that there's distance between trains at Dyckman). IDK exactly how much time it takes to do a non-stop trip from 145 Street to 96 Street, so there might be an issue with merging at 96 Street.

 

In the PM, there's one more merge than the AM. Technically , the local would be merging with the express, so the express can be given priority in the case of merging north of 145 Street (I don't expect there to be problems as scheduled). 

One big issue here is that the Riverdale local buses deposit folks at 231st, not 242nd. That large 231 St. crowd would be stuck with the local.

What's the point of that single track if folks can't get express service? The has a single track too IIRC and there are express trains to Pelham Bay. Why not Van Cortlandt Park? Slip stop service is pointless. There needs to be a real express service for the folks taking the subway down the hill.

Well, as a Riverdalian I would love express service as much as anyone. But the difference with the 6 is that on the 6, there are multiple local stops from Pelham Bay to Parkchester before express service starts, so the express trains get a good load aboard. With the track layout on the 1, only 242nd St. passengers would benefit. Meanwhile, the large loads entering on 231st and 207th would get no benefit.

 

Thanks for the link. I noticed in the article that although Lex ridership is down and 2 Av ridership is pretty high, the cumulative ridership from UES stations has risen from last year to this year (e.g. 96th St went from 30,000 riders at one station to 55,000 at two stations).

Some of that may be due to M15 bus riders switching to the Q.

HTML isn't needed here like at subchat. Just post the link, or use the link button. It is next to the numbered list option.

Thank you!

MTA news release on SAS passenger growth, and Lex reduction:

<a href="http://www.mta.info/news/2017/02/01/second-av-subway-ridership-growing-rapidly">Second Av Subway Ridership Growing Rapidly</a>

That, or it could be integrated within the new terminals and run at about ground level along the GCP.

Yes, only way a train could run from anywhere in Astoria to LGA is to run at ground level or underground where the GCP crosses in front of the runway.

The way the the Ditmars Boulevard station was designed, the line was meant to make a turn. It is similar to Utica Avenue on the Eastern Parkway Line. The line was meant to be extended along Utica Avenue, which meant the station itself had to leave room for the curve onto Utica Avenue.

No way it can curve east onto Ditmars without demolishing several buildings on the corner. The best extension would be straight up 31st to the ConEd plant, etc., but that has been torpedoed by Nimbys; in fact, any turn onto Ditmars would be a non-starter as well because of all the nightlife there now.

When you say  "BTW, most new subway lines make buses redundant", what should one conclude?

Merely a statement of fact. No desire to cut needed buses.

Not really. The 63 Street tunnel isn’t even at 50% capacity. Provisions are in place for another branch in Queens. The Astoria and Flushing lines also have provisions for extension from their northern termini. A lot could be added done without another East River tunnel or trunk line.

Astoria and Flushing line have such provisions? How? Where? News to me.

"What Queens should be doing is fighting to improve LIRR service. It has happened with MNRR in the Bronx recently with Tremont and Melrose receiving more frequent service.  Let's face it... You have trains running right through Queens that people aren't using that could be used until subway service is improved.  That could have an immediate impact on various neighborhoods throughout the borough instead of everyone packing onto the already overcrowded subways there."

Not only that, but intra-city RR fares should be reduced to make them closer to subway fares.

You supposedly live in a neighborhood that doesn't have subway access and you're advocating for cutting buses?  Something doesn't add up... 

Where did I say to cut buses?

I agree with many people on here. I rather see the 2nd Ave line travel into the Bronx than serve 125th. Having the line run on 125th street will make the buses that already run on 125th redundant and unnecessary.I don't know why the always wants to overcater to Manhattan but not any other borough that needs new subway lines and bus enhancements like Queens and the Bronx. As much as I would like to see a Utica Ave line I would not build one before Queens gets another line. Yeah I am from Queens and I probably am being a little biased but all we have mainly is the Queens Blvd Line and the Flushing Line if you come from the middle of Queens like I do. I tend to go to Forest Hills for the Queens Blvd lines because it's slightly quicker to go there and it beats using the Q25 which has it moments. However all you need is one incident to happen like for example the lady who jumped in front of the train at Elmhurst and the whole line is delayed and shut down with very poor alternatives. Personally the MTA really needs to focus on places that need the service the most. I would say screw the 125th street crosstown. I would make that station 4 tracks and have the terminate on the middle tracks with a passageway to the Lexington Ave lines if they want to really establish a connection there which it would be horrible one because it will be like transferring from the to the 7th Ave/ Broadway Lines. I don't think too many will make that connection, but at least it's there. The would continue to the Bronx and run up third a bit and in the future I would have it run as a crosstown in the Bronx. But oh man how I wish Queens would get the royal treatment and have some type of new line built. The Culver Shuttle in Brooklyn should have been keep and extended crosstown to at least serve as a feeder to other lines.

The problem with building new lines in Queens is that you need a new East River crossing or at least a new Queens trunk line (like the formerly proposed Super-Express) to make them worthwhile and to provide an increase in capacity. It's a lot easier to extend lines or even build new ones in or closer to Manhattan.

BTW, most new subway lines make buses redundant. 

Let's see what the big mouth liberals have to say... 

We say, we'll believe it when the shovels hit the ground.

Why exactly do we need those ridiculous mezzanines? I don't see the point.  More crap to clean and replace and more potential for the homeless and music performers to clog up space... Waste of money.  I don't give a damn about artwork when my train is delayed.  The should focus more on prompt service and less on beautification.  Make stations that are functional, CLEAN with elevators, escalators and the like that work.  I was just watching the news this morning and they showed 72nd street with an entrance already closed for repair.  Their already doing repair work on a station that has been open for less than a month.  Ridiculous!

Every New Yorker who goes abroad and uses their metro systems aways remarks on how beautiful the stations are. Art is a wonderful amenity, and adds no more than 1% to the cost. The mezzanines may be overkill though. Partial mezzanines at each end might have been enough.

I'm guessing Water St is narrow enough such that building an incline for a second level wouldn't work in Downtown Manhattan.

 

 

The IND Second System plan called for four tracks between Chambers St and 125 St, with an additional pair of tracks between 61 St and 125 St connecting to the 6 Ave Line, and two tracks from Chambers St to Wall St. 

Water Street is a wide two-way avenue with 2 traffic lanes and a parking lane in each direction.

I've passed through two days this week one for a meeting on 86th and the other to meet my wife after work on 66th and 2nd. 72nd street Station seems like it's getting way more traffic then 96 th or 86th. Both days the trains where packed S/B around 5-6 pm is there a hospital, institution or something in the area?

 

 

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Yes, New York Hospital, Weill-Cornell Medical Center, and Sloan-Kettering are all major hospitals near 72 and York. Major traffic generators, all.