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Axis

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    NICE Bus: 8 Years Later

    in Nassau Inter-County Express

    Posted

    15 hours ago, NY1635 said:

    n1: needs to run full time to Jamaica and Five Towns Shopping Center. It's mainly used by people living in Far Rockaway to get to Green Acres and Valley Stream/Elmont bound people to reach the mall. 

    n3: Make it a Green Acres-Hempstead route via Franklin Ave and Hempstead Turnpike.

    n1 -- This could help a lot, since the Q114 tends to pick up a lot of people at the Five Towns Shopping Center to go to Far Rockaway (assuming the dollar vans don't get there first), and is bombarded by traffic along Rockaway Turnpike. Plus, having a route to/from Far Rockaway that traffic issues along the narrow Central Avenue & busy Lynbrook Five Corners (both of which hurt the n31/n32's on-time performance). The only thing is, the n1's current run-time between Jamaica & Hewlett already stands at a touch above one hour. The extension would be a miracle...but the new routing might possibly become too long.

    n3 -- I think many years ago (the MSBA days possibly), the n3 actually did??? go from Green Acres to Hempstead via Franklin Square. I've seen a few old maps here & there, but the information isn't too clear/memorable. Is there a demand for it nowadays? Who knows?

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    NICE Bus: 8 Years Later

    in Nassau Inter-County Express

    Posted

    2 hours ago, NY1635 said:

    It's mainly seniors and hosptial workers that take the n78/n79 and are too stubborn to take the n22/24 into Jamaica

    The n20 runs express between Bway Mall and Rosyln Clock Tower with only stops at the Colleges. If it's that hard then let the n27 make a stop at NYiT and CWPost for people trying to get down to Mineola or Hempstead. The n20 gets rougly 7000 riders and the n25 gets roughly 3300. The n23 and n27 get the same amount of 1500-1800 among restuarant workers in the North Shore, or Industrial Park. IIRC, TONH had their own shuttle along Port Washington on a Gillig bus before NICE ran shuttle service up there.

     

    I feel like having the n27 having to sidetrack east to NYIT/LIU (while possibly helpful, since Glen Cove Road/Northern Boulevard is a well-used transfer point when timed correctly) seems kinda out of the way. If anything, I'd probably consider extending the n35 (which at least operates everyday unlike the n27) northward from it's current terminus in Westbury (at Rockland Street) up Post Avenue, then Wheatley Lane, and through Whitney Lane to help it reach NYIT/LIU.

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    NICE Bus: 8 Years Later

    in Nassau Inter-County Express

    Posted

    1) From firsthand experience, splitting the n20 into n20G/H (does this count as a reduction?) and truncating the n21 to Great Neck-Glen Cove seems to have helped out the Northern Boulevard corridor a lot. A 20-minute combined frequency on the n20/21 pre-2016 was enough to get everyone on-board, but any slight lateness in departing out of Flushing, the bus was guaranteed to be SRO out of the first stop. Splitting the route so that Flushing to Great Neck could have one frequency & Great Neck to Hicksville having a different frequency helped balance out the route quite well, by not having one route cover too much distance, having sensible run-times put into each half of the route split, and better distributing service where it's needed.

    Once every 15 minutes between Flushing & Great Neck feels a lot less stuffy than the previous 20-minute headway (that probably might also be because splitting the route in half drove some of the ridership away). The unbalanced 20/40 minute spacing in n20 buses between Roslyn & Hicksville (due to needing to fit in the 60-minute headway n21 so that combined they had a 20-minute headway west of Roslyn) created bunching in the n20 buses (and that's not even considering the insufficient runtime).

    Discontinuing the n20L (because of the split) most likely drove previous riders away (presumably having them gravitate more towards the n22/24), since not having to serve Great Neck LIRR or downtown Roslyn saved precious runtime, and particularly helped buses to/from Hicksville avoid traffic backups that tend to accumulate downhill going past Roslyn Clock Tower during the PM Rush (now the n20H has to suffer instead).

    2) From what I've heard, effectively "eliminating" the n72 supposedly has had people flocking towards the n71, since they would now need to take that route to Sunrise Mall, then transfer to an SCT route to continue eastwards towards Babylon.

    2A) Reiterating the point earlier about splitting the n20, doing so improved reliability on both splits (plus more trips going later into the night have gradually been added over the years on the n20G/H from what I've noticed).

    Eliminating the n22A was probably for the best. I've taken it a few times out of RF, and those trips never get crowded, since they avoid two major ridership generators: Hicksville & Mineola Intermodal. As long as the buses freed up from eliminating the n22A have been put to good use elsewhere, I don't see the harm.

    3) All these years, seeing route after route get eliminated throughout 2016 & 2017, I expected the n26 to go at some point. The fact that it's held on for this long impresses me. I have to imagine eliminating the route now would probably result in the n20G, n22, n24, and n25 getting overwhelmed.

    3A) I've ridden the n20H enough times over the years to say this much. It really does not need 30-minute headways. By the time the n20H gets past Manhasset/Plandome, there's maybe 20 (if that) people on the bus at most. Weekday evening trips get even less people than that. Older schedules on the n20/21 (dating about 2014 or so) show hourly headways on weekdays between Roslyn & Hicksville on the n20 back then. I probably wouldn't want to inconvenience the many college students that need the n20H during the school year, but considering NICE can easily have one service pattern/schedule during the Summer, then a new one in the Fall after, I would consider cutting the n20H to hourly headways outside of weekday rush hours during the Summer, then reverting back to half-hourly headways once the new school year kicks in.

    4) It's honestly a mixed feeling for me. I feel like because the cuts have become pretty much a norm in NICE bus, people are losing faith in getting around in Nassau County period, and thus general ridership continues to dwindle (thus warranting more cuts; see the snowball effect here?).

    -----

    Misc. Thoughts & Suggestions

    n1 -- I feel like this is more or less a Nassau County-owned competitor to the Q5/Q85 (both of which I've seen pretty packed at the height of rush). I think, if this route were to be extended back to Jamaica full-time (possibly extended even beyond 165th Street terminal), it would be able to steal some of the Q5/85 load, once people realize it's closed-door behavior in Queens is arguably faster (or not, the route's pretty lengthy at needing an hour plus to go from Jamaica to Hewlett via Elmont, Valley Stream, and Green Acres), and possibly relieve the n6 along their shared routing from Jamaica to Elmont.

    Now, chiming in with NY1635's suggestion for the n1...perhaps the n1 could be rerouted away from Hewlett, by having it cross Gibson LIRR, and follow the Q111's Cedarhurst-bound routing on Mill Road & Peninsula Boulevard towards Five Towns Shopping Center. The question now is, where would be a good place to terminate the n1 (to at least maintain a connection to the n31/n32, in addition to having a new connection to the Q113/Q114) out there?

    n2 -- If something like a Flexi has a higher ridership than full-blown bus routes (i.e.; n78/n79), I feel like this may as well be reverted to the former bus route it once was. I would personally not do any sort of loop-route configuration, but I would at least have it start/end in Jamaica (which iirc the Flexi currently does not).

    n19 -- With much of the southeast portion of the NICE Bus Network no longer around, the n19 is currently the only route going anywhere near Merrick, Bellmore, and Wantagh, all of which used to have as much as NINE routes combined back in the day (n45, n46, n50, n51, n52, n53, n73, n74, n87). Clearly NICE Link has failed (NICE has silently phased it out). Something needs to return. Midday/evening service on the n19 (possibly reinstating service to Babylon) would be a good start.

    n20 -- In the hopes of rekindling some of the lost ridership on the Northern Boulevard corridor, I would pitch the idea of bringing back some semblance of an unsplit n20...at least where it would be most fitting: Bringing back the n20L during weekday rush hours for one-seat service between all points west of Great Neck & all points east of Great Neck. The purpose of having it be exclusively n20L is to balance out the runtime/distance covered to compensate for how apart Flushing & Hicksville are for terminii (compared to Jamaica to Hicksville). Making it go through Great Neck & Roslyn, especially in the height of rush hour, would probably make the route/trip/runtime too long to run sensibly without issue.

    n27 -- I've heard usage of this route on weekends was pretty decent, so having no weekend service on this route may probably not be in the best of interests.

    n45 -- It's funny, the n45 was around long before the n43 came in & pushed the n45 into obsolescence. Would I bring this back? No clue...

    n48/n49 -- The current headways on this routing pair looks pretty barren & barebones, considering it goes from one vital transfer hub to another. I think when the n46/n47 were eliminated, the right course of action should've been to increase service on the n48 or n49 to compensate. It's never too late to start.

    n54/n55 -- Comparing against other routing pairs (n31/n32, n48/n49, n70/n71), the amount of service here just feels so unevenly distributed, particularly during late mornings. I would at least redo the schedules to balance out departures on this pair of routes.

    n50/n73 -- Right now, there is no direct way to go straight down south from Hicksville to anywhere along the southern shore (as it stands, going from Hicksville to let's say Jones Beach takes three buses nowadays, when back then, it used to only require one when the n87 was still around). I wouldn't bring back everything, but at least one of the Hicksville-South Shore routes does need to make a comeback, even on just hourly headways. Key phrase: "Network Coverage"

    1

    Queens Existing Conditions Report Released

    in New York City Bus

    Posted

    11 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

    Yes, I should been a bit more specific. However, Q4,5,83,84,85, 111, 113, 114 I see cuts in service and since those parts of Queens are heavy dollar van territory I would expect more vans in those areas. 

    I already know I'm gonna be waiting longer than I already do for the Q113/Q114 after this redesign shindig blows over.

    Guess I'll just start walking from Far Rockaway Mott Avenue to work now...and get used to it.

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    BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

    in New York City Bus

    Posted

    #5396 on the 1:50 PM Q114 out of Jamaica shows up 10 minutes late, B/O goes super slow (braking at every single yellow light), gets slowed down further at 137 Av due to construction. Finally, he spontaneously decides to take himself out of service at Brewer/Farmers. Kicks all 70+ of us off the bus with no explanation, then just proceeds to go for a walk. Comes back after the Q113 behind him picks up most of the new load, then puts the bus back in service.

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    Rumor on the street

    in Nassau Inter-County Express

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

    Nassau didn’t care about investing on buses under TA. Now they bring an operator like transdev and honestly through my drive up on the Island there’s no real investment at all. After the semi mass order on the XN40’s and 4 XN60’s just completely nothing. You would think they would order more to accommodate the N20/21, N22, N24, N15, N16, N4, N6 but nothing has changed. 

    From what it feels like, we actually have less buses now overall than we had four years ago. Transdev pretty much retired more Orion V’s (the 1000’s, 1500’s, and 1600’s) than the number of Xcelsiors that have been brought in since. It’s no wonder a lot of routes that have been eliminated between then & now probably can’t even come back. There probably aren’t even enough buses to go around.

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    Rumor on the street

    in Nassau Inter-County Express

    Posted · Edited by Axis

    What I would hope to see is for the n20/21 to be reverted back to Flushing-Hicksville/Glen Cove, and become a full-time combo (like the n48/49, n54/55, etc), with the n21 serving Great Neck & Roslyn (operating seven days a week), and the n20 staying on Northern Boulevard to bypass Great Neck & Roslyn (to speed up service/runtime on an already too long Flushing to Hicksville routing).

    tl;dr - Recombine the n20, extend the n21 back to Flushing, and have the n20 run as n20L all times (with the n21 running all times as well to cover the bypassed areas).

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