Wallyhorse

2 hours ago, Teban54 said:

Since we're looking at yet another Broadway/DeKalb deinterlining proposal, here are some questions that I always wanted to ask.

1. How much of a political challenge is it to remove the one-seat ride on the between Manhattan Chinatown and all Brooklyn Chinatowns? From what I've read, this is a highly popular link that can't be covered by the standard justification of "6th Ave and Broadway are close in Midtown". Preserving this OSR while deinterlining DeKalb would mean that West End and Sea Beach need to get 6th Ave service, while both Brighton express and local get Broadway.
2. A very common idea in the Broadway proposals is  to 96th St. But wouldn't this put a major limit on future 's capacity, if both and  are on SAS?

 

I believe most calls of  to 96 are mainly for deinterlining purposes: that's where Broadway Express tracks lead to. Without any merges, SAS is the only place you can go.

The only other ways out for a Broadway Express route (say ) are: 

• Merge onto Broadway Local / 60th St tunnel, at either 34th (like the today) or 57th, which is basically status quo and means you still have all the same issues with interlining as today.
• Or merge on 63rd St from  to  and become a QBL local, possibly replacing . Sounds like a good way to utilize 63rd St tunnel's capacity into Queens, but there's still a merge on 63rd St, and I'm not sure how problematic that is. You also inherit all the other issues that a 63rd route has for QBL riders (skips LIC and no express transfer at Queens Plaza, no  in-station transfer, etc).

And on top of that, any QBL local via 63rd misses Queens Plaza, which is a big stop.  That in itself makes it an issue going via 63rd instead of 60th for any Broadway line.  

2 hours ago, TMC said:

Nassau shouldn't interact with the rest of the system, being a very weak stub line, in a system where demand trends toward Midtown. 

This is specifically about solving longtime problems with the and as I would do it, it would only have a handful of "Yellow " trains and during rush hours a handful of trains to deal with.  Unfortunately, the Nassau line at Canal, Essex and to a lesser degree Chambers provide the only places to do that and that is why I make the  brown.  Anyone on 4th Avenue south of 36th would likely transfer to the at 59th or 36th anyway (and likewise, those between 36th and Atlantic Avenue would transfer at Atlantic Avenue anyway) and those looking specifically for the stations between Atlantic Avenue on the 4th Avenue line and Canal Street on the Broadway line can do a same platform transfer between the and the "Yellow " ( late nights) anywhere between 36th and Court Street.  There are more than enough transfer options to other lines as well that would allow this  to run on Nassau to Canal (with in-service yard runs from and to Broadway Junction and late nights and weekends extended to Metropolitan Avenue specifically to eliminate the need for the shuttles when those currently run).  Most people would adjust, only those who are lazy and would take the  the full route would complain.

This setup also allows for less issues with merging on the  wherever it does merge with the (and in this case, the "Yellow ") in Manhattan.  

On 10/23/2023 at 11:11 AM, TDL said:

The reason they don't do that is because Queens riders want 49th Street, So Broadway Local service is what's demanded for Astoria. 

The problem is that means yard access becomes an issue. Here's how I'd do it:

- Astoria-Coney Island, via Broadway Local/Brighton Local.(stops at Dekalb on the current  platform).

-unchanged. This would cause a weekday only choke point at Dekalb. It could also be suspended, but that won't go over well.

-unchanged

-96th St-Coney Is via Broadway Express/4th Ave Express/Sea Beach.

-becomes a local to Forest Hills.

stays on 53rd,  to 63rd. 

-Jamaica Center-Bay Ridge, via. QBL Express/63rd St/Broadway Express/Bridge/4th Ave Local (stops at Dekalb on the current platform)

This is good, but as I would do it:

 goes to Nassau and runs Bay Ridge-Canal Street (with the abandoned northbound platforms at Canal Street and Bowery reopened and Canal converted back to the terminal it once was).  This  as previously noted would be based out of East New York and would have in-service yard runs from/to Broadway Junction,  Late nights and weekends, this  is extended to Metropolitan Avenue to absorb the shuttles unless the is running to 96th/2nd.  

 is shortened to Chambers except for a handful of rush hour runs from/to Broad Street.

becomes full-time (except late nights) and runs Whitehall to 71st-Continental (at peak times and otherwise when necessary, some trains run from and to the tunnel level platform at Canal Street).  

, ,   and   are unchanged EXCEPT the no longer stops at 49th Street (merge/unmerge with the locals now happens at 57th Street).

A new "Yellow " operates (no more than 6 TPH) from 9th Avenue or Bay Parkway on the to Astoria to supplement the and cover those who ride the Broadway line via Montague and operate seven days a week.  This and the  would stop at 49th Street and make all other Broadway local stops.

I still think moving the  to Nassau helps solve that line's problems be severely shortening the route while the  can replace it to Forest Hills and the new can supplement the  in Queens.  People who current travel to 49th can either way if necessary transfer to/from the local at 57th for 49th.  

That makes sense.

10 hours ago, Outerbridge said:

It would solve the problem of my hair smelling like a pack of used Newports every day. I'm not the one begging for people to return to the city center (Mayor Adams) and constantly griping about "pre-pandemic ridership levels" (the MTA, in every single press release, it seems) so it just seems odd that the MTA would continue to permit smoking, which violates state law and also discourages the 5% of New Yorkers who don't smoke from using the system. 

I presume they don't enforce the anti-smoking laws on the subway.  

I wonder what happened that caused them not to wrap up work on the when they were supposed to.  

On 10/20/2023 at 8:41 PM, Lawrence St said:

That seems like a disaster waiting to happen. 

Instead of doing all that, have the  run to 96th St using fleet from the , and have the  run to Forest Hills using fleet from the . That  shuttle is also completely useless.

Or, for that weekend just have the  be 24/7 on the full route.  That would probably make the most sense.

I did look at that on satellite:

More realistically, if that was rebuilt,  The main four-track section would return to being such while the Snediker Avenue portion would likely be built to be stub tracks for usually storage but can in a pinch (or during G.O.'s) be used as terminal tracks.  

10 hours ago, slantfan4281 said:

Reconfiguring the station to allow for short-turns has a low but non-zero chance or happening. Canarsie-Nassau service is not happening since the transfer at Broadway Junction is not difficult and it would unnecessarily handicap the  where it is busiest

I would never expect such to actually be used except for some weekend G.O.'s

If there was a revival of the old  to Canarsie (as another letter), as I would do it, those trains would go to Canarsie while the would be cut back to Atlantic Avenue to better serve the busiest part of the line with in most cases a cross-platform transfer at Atlantic Avenue between the two.  The Snediker platform would mainly be for storage and a few early morning trains but would be done where it could be used in service if necessary. 

3 hours ago, slantfan4281 said:

I doubt they'll consider tail tracks for the ... the only terminal improvements I could see them doing is reconfiguring Atlantic to 3 or 4 tracks with a center track to terminate trains if needed, and that only works if the OOS platform is still usable.

For the  they'll just send whatever they can't fit into JC to 179th. But an extension via the LIRR ROW like planned in the Program for Action would be nice.

As I would do it, I would rebuild the platforms taken out of service on the at Atlantic as well as the tracks that served Snediker Avenue (there was enough infrastructure level in place that such CAN be rebuilt).   This also would allow for a potential revival of what used to be  service to Rockaway Parkway on the  for example.  

14 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Maybe someone can help me out with this question. I am reading about a G.O. on the  this evening and it gives approximate times for the last departure from certain stops. Unless my eyes are missing something it states that the last northbound departure from Bowling Green is at 9:10 pm and 9:35 pm from Grand Central. How does it take 25 minutes to travel between these two stations ? Am I missing something here ? It used to take me about 25 minutes to go from Bowling Green to 138th - GC at that time of the evening. Bowling Green to Grand Central was a 12 minute trip on the schedule. Maybe someone has some insight into what’s going on here ? Carry on.

They probably simply baked in some extra time to the schedule. 

On 10/4/2023 at 6:03 PM, Vulturious said:

Better than the previous price honestly, it was $8 Billion last time, this is about $2B cheaper.

Not a surprise.  They seem to not want to re-activate the RBB and use expenses as a reason.

5 hours ago, zacster said:

So you want to put a station over an already high station?  And this is the "best way to do it"?  You're already too high from whatever it is you're smoking.

And they are NOT going to spend money on a 5-10 year project to connect it so they can do reroutes and Yankee specials.  I'll be amazed if they ever open anything past 125/Lex.

This is about future needs:

As CBTC takes over more of the system, eventually it is supposed to allow more capacity.  By the time this would be completed, it's quite possible there would be the capacity to have an SAS line operate on 8th Avenue (as noted, coming in and going out on the tracks between the local and express tracks in the six-track zone on the line).  It's quite possible by that point you could easily add an SAS line to the upper portion of 8th Avenue/Concourse. 

26 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Lmao i proposed this years ago plus the fact is i wonder how are they gonna build the 125 and broadway station because of the geographic terrain 🤔

My original idea for 125/Broadway-12th Avenue was to make that an elevated station, likely above the current  station and extending to 12th Avenue where Metro-North is supposed to be.  That might be the best way to do it.  You could do a mezzanine from the downtown  platform to reach such and stairs directly from the uptown platform.  

And it's very short-sighted not to look at a connection from the SAS to the 8th Avenue Line.  For now, it would be more about "future proofing" and allowing for in an emergency the and  being able to use the SAS if CPW is FUBAR (or for a G.O.) while having operational flexibility, including operating Yankee Stadium Special trains along the SAS to and from 161.  

18 hours ago, Vulturious said:

Hate to break it to you, but I highly doubt they would ever bother with a track connection to CPW because of what they mentioned in their report here on page 25 https://future.mta.info/documents/20-YearNeedsAssessment_ComparativeEvaluation.pdf.

I knew they probably wouldn't consider the connection, but I'm disappointed they decided to not take a further look into the analysis. Oh well, on the bright side, it looks like the MTA might actually be considering a crosstown 125 St seeing as there are incentives around this that even the MTA can't ignore. Personally, they should postpone Phase 3 for the time being and let the Crosstown-125 St extension be the new Phase 3.

I would be looking at it, as the main purposes of such a connection to the 8th Avenue line from the SAS at 125/St. Nicholas would be (for at least now):

Giving the SAS line access to Concourse and 207th Street yards.

In an emergency, the and trains would be able to use such to get to the SAS and from there, go to 63rd/Lex and use that to eventually get back to their regular lines.  Such also opens up a ton of operational flexibility for G.O.'s and the line, and even more so on the if eventually as I think should be done, Phase 4 is extended into Brooklyn through a new Schermerhorn Street tunnel that would run under the Transit Museum station (Court Street), possibly with a new stop south of the TM before joining the Fulton Street line using the as-present unused tracks/platforms at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, allowing the  to be the Fulton local to Euclid (extended late nights to Lefferts) with the and  both running express in Brooklyn. 

Now it looks like (if they can find the money) they want to extend the SAS across 125:

As noted before, I would do it where there is a connection at St. Nicholas to the 8th Avenue line, most likely using the tracks in each direction between the local and express tracks north of 125 to north of 135 to connect.  This would allow for the SAS to go to to either upper Manhattan or the Concourse line (and give the SAS access to 207th and Concourse Yards) as well as in an emergency allow the and  to access the SAS to get back to 6th and 8th Avenue respectively. 

On 9/30/2023 at 8:14 PM, MJHmarc said:

Access to C.I. Yard is limited after flood issues so the  is running local on Brooklyn while the express tracks are being used for storage. I guess all the work that was done to protect the yard from floods didn’t work. 

Um, we had 8 1/2" of rain hit between late Thursday and Saturday afternoon before this finally cleared out.  NYC broke the single-day record for rain by a lot (even more than Sandy).  This likely was unavoidable. 

14 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I'm sure that I'm older than you and most posters but we had the Transit Police riding the system overnight before Rudy G was elected. NYTP rode trains, especially in the IRT from the Bronx to Brooklyn nightly. We also had a Vandals Squad that concentrated on the train yards that dealt with the " no talent artists ". I'm personally offended by your insinuation that minority leaders actually support these criminals. My opinion. Carry on.

I do remember that actually.

And I should clarify, what I meant was we have too many "ambulance chasers" that include some of the kind of advocates who feel minorities have been trampled on to the point where they would unfairly use the discrimination flag where it should not be used and because of past injustices against minorities, judges would rule against the TA if '90s-style tactics, even if the TA was fully in their right to do so were used. 

My point was, what was done in the '90s would not be tolerated by many now.  

9 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I’m late to the discussion somewhat but I find it disgusting that smashing windows is the only things these kids can think of doing nowadays. Whatever happened to doing normal kid activities like chilling at the mall with friends, after school programs or just laying low at home and playing video games? 
 

The MTA wants to do a full investigation of this incident but my question is what is the end goal? The way that the city has been handling crime is honestly a joke to me. A lot of youth these days don’t have any guidance and instead of teaching these kids a lesson they get a slap on the wrist and then they go out and do more crazy stuff. This is why places like NYC, San Francisco, LA and etc are on a decline. I would be mad if I was one of those people who had somewhere to be but was late because some mentally unbalanced kids decided to vandalize stuff. That’s why we need that 90s style crime crackdown in our city today. A lot of people would think it’s harsh but if deviant behaviors don’t get corrected it’s going to be the Wild Wild West out here pretty soon . 

That '90s style crime crackdown would likely now lead to massive lawsuits against the city by advocates for minorities and so forth.  What Giuliani did when he was mayor from 1993-2001 would never fly today because of that.  

22 hours ago, MTA Researcher said:

I want my Broadway Express  in Astoria. Why not do a 57 St/7 Av Flip like in my proposal?

I think the problem has to do with the reverse southbound.  They need to put in punch boxes at 5th Avenue-59th that would allow the to go express from 57th-7th south since the merge north can occur after 57/7 as it is without issues.  

6 hours ago, CenSin said:

You want half the express trains barreling down Queens/Northern Boulevard to drop off a whole bunch of people at Queens Plaza or Court Square to take the next train or make a mad rush up to get the because it skips Manhattan?

Not to mention the comes in on the local track at Queens Plaza.  I would look at having the and all go to 179 if it means being able to run three locals on the full route of Queens Boulevard weekdays before I made the an express train.  

14 hours ago, Robert Spire said:

De-interlining might also help long term. A more controversial permanent suggestion once the 63rd Street work is finished might be to do this:

 Queens Boulevard Express to Jamaica Center all times except late nights with select rush hour trains to 179th Street. Late nights  is Queens Boulevard Local to Jamaica Center. 

 Queens Boulevard Local to Forest Hills-71 Avenue all times except late nights. Both  and  run via 63rd Street.

 Queens Boulevard Express to Jamaica-179th Street all times except late nights. Late nights is Queens Boulevard Local to 179th Street.

 runs between 96th Street and Coney Island as Broadway Express all times except late nights skipping 49th Street with the  . Late nights  runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Coney Island as Broadway Local via tunnel. 

 runs between Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard and Bay Ridge-95th Street all times except late nights. 

There is a reason the  stopped running to Astoria and swapped terminals with the  in 1987, and that was lack of yard access for the . 

8 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I’m listening to “Bad Luck “ by Harold Melvin and the Bluenotes and then I read your post. Priceless. Be safe out there. 

Ah yes, a '70s classic!  

4 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

… I give them one day… ONE DAY… and what do I get? 
 

Surfers!

So, I am currently on paid leave for Grand Jury Duty. Yesterday, I had to go in to work since the courts were closed and per contract, when you’re not going in to court, you have to come into work.

they gave me a job, I do it, they ask if I want to do one extra trip…

Pull into a station, I see a bunch of kids standing around at the far end of the platform…

We start to leave and two of them leap onto the side of my train.

they ran when I pulled the brake.

 

this grand jury gig is four weeks. I give them 1 day and this is what I come back to.

Sadly, this is how kids are in many cases. 

1 hour ago, Vulturious said:

Since we can't seem to move on from the whole  to QBL topic, I bring you yet another proposal for you guys to trash me on. 

Essentially, a new connection is made between the 8 Av line and 60 St tunnel. The southbound connection would be the easier one to build (hopefully), it would be a straight shot from the curve continuing underneath 59 St then start to curve south towards 8 Av and run underneath Columbus Circle. It would then start rising up to meet up with the 8 Av southbound local and merge before entering 50 St station. Now the northbound connection is going to be a bit more difficult. I'm not sure how far down the 6 Av connection is between 7 Av and Columbus Circle station is, all I know is that a split is made skewing the northbound tracks along since the local line to then start dipping down when possible heading towards 59 St. This would then continue going a little further down to avoid having an at-grade junction and then merge after rising to merge.

As for how service would run, this is up to anyone. I made this edit as merely a concept of how the connection would work, but also as a way to add a redundancy to both in 8 Av and 60 St tunnel. 

I do like this if it can be done.  If possible, I would actually have connections to 8th Avenue from 60th AND 63rd Street.  I have thought anyway of extending 63rd to reach the 8th Avenue line since that might be easier and allow for greater flexibility in emergencies and so forth.

On 9/1/2023 at 2:29 AM, subwaykid256 said:

I have an idea I would feedback but for de-interlining purposes 

 As is but the branches are in the Rockaway's thus discontinued 

 168 St CPW local- 6 Av Ex 4 Av Exp. Terminates at Bay Pkwy rush hours. Weekdays 9 Av. Weekends  runs local 145-168

 BPB rush hours weekdays GC local CPW/ 8Av Exp Fulton Exp Lefferts Blvd late nights and weekends 8 av Lcl 

 As is but CPW local

 As is but no Jamaica 179 St branch and skips 75 Av and Briarwood 

 QBL local via 63 St Jamaica 179 St- Coney Island via 6 Av Lcl & Culver Exp

 As is with possible extension to 18 Av and/or Kings Hwy

 QBL Super Express Exp via 53 St. 8 Av Lcl WTC-Jamaica 179 St late nights and weekends use 
 
As is. Discontinued  will be replaced by  Which will run peak direction exp from Marcy Av-Bway Junction stopping at Myrtle.

  As is

  Metropolitan Av-Bay Ridge 95 St 4 Av lcl 

 Astoria/Bway/4 AvLocal Astoria - CI via Sea Beach

 As is with   being brought back to serve Brighton exp

  Discontinued

 QBL via 63 St /6 Av/Fulton St local Forest Hills 71 Av Euclid Av. Reactivating outer tracks at Hoyt-Schmerhorn 

 As is 

 

although I am wondering if it’s possible to have the  terminate at Queens Plaza because then I can discontinue the  and have  Run local service from Queens Plaza- Whitehall St

Queens Plaza is difficult to use as a terminal now which is one of the reasons (but not the only one) you don't see the running to Queens Plaza.

As for this, as I would do it:
 and all remain as is.

 is shortened to Chambers Street and would serve as a transfer point northbound between it and a Nassau  (see below) with the reverse southbound at Canal Street (though a limited number of trains signed as in peak direction would end and begin at Broad).

is as is on weekdays only, see below for nights and weekends.

 moves to Nassau and runs to a rebuilt terminal at Canal Street on weekdays (with the northbound platforms on Nassau at Canal and Bowery on the  reopened).  Late nights and weekends, this  is extended to Metropolitan Avenue to absorb the shuttles and also has in-service yard runs to Broadway Junction on the  as this  would be based out of East New York.  This  at least nights and weekends is exactly the same as your .

replaces the in Manhattan running from 71-Continental to Whitehall Street,  Rush hours, overflow trains run to the tunnel level of Canal Street and end and begin there (nights and weekends, the runs as it does now).

 returns as yellow and runs from Bay Parkway or 9th Avenue on the to Astoria via West End Local (if starting at Bay Parkway), 4th Avenue local, via the tunnel and Broadway local as a supplement to the in lower Manhattan and the to Astoria.

And again, the  in this case is all about BROOKLYN, running as a 4th Avenue local that only interlines with this new "Yellow " between 36th Street and the Montague Tunnel and perhaps briefly a handful of / trains at Broad during rush hours (and the  otherwise in specific situations). This should make the  much more efficient on 4th Avenue and Bay Ridge, which was the specific primary goal.