SubwayGuy

The events that have occurred yesterday were one of the lowest I’ve seen in the community. And while I agree with any of the things that’s been said on this thread the last few hours, I would like to add one more thing:

 

It’s true. Lots of us take this hobby for granted. Lots of us would rather chase than actually ride the trains. Lots of us would do anything at all costs to take that one photo. Lots of us will complain how one type of railcar should be saved or how we don’t like this other type of railcar, or how we like one particular kind of subway car and make sure no one else forgets it. We rather not get to know the old timers who have had many years of experience with the equipment and instead, blabber on about why we like *insert car model here* so much. Many of us have no idea what goes into preservation or what makes a train run….we might not know all the nuts and bolts that make that subway car – a subway car. But we can tell you, for example, how many R188s ran on the today. A number of us even have had the chance to ride the front car of a train through just about any part of the system looking at the rails though the window as the train moves from station to station. But no, we have to get that shot or that video of that one tunnel we’ve seen many times…..because yes, we’re riding on an R1-9 and that’s just a completely different experience as an R40, or an R44, or an R160. Because most of us are only focused on who’s the better railfan or the better busfan.

 

And this is all unfortunate. And really sad.

 

It’s one reason why I ended up leaving the community years ago. The community became one focused on unnecessary drama, rather than the interests that attracted most of us here in the first place.

 

But then last summer, something happened that brought me back.

 

Much of the time I was gone, from time to time, I used to lurk onto various forums. One thing that caught my attention was this guy right here:  https://www.facebook.com/r36preservation

 

This guy is doing something that many people have made fun of in the past for. He saw that some subway cars were being retired. He saw the historical value of those subway cars. He was inspired to do something about it. He focused his attention on a pair of subway cars that sat in storage for a number of years. I even remember he received flack for years ago for trying to do something about it.Then last year, we lost those subway cars to the scrapper. That caused him to really work hard on trying to get to where he is today – raising funds, organizing events and uniting various communities. All while attempting a saving history: two subway cars that are just about almost complete in restoration. I feel that, if it weren’t for this guy, perhaps certain things would’ve happened. I know all that he’s done has been a really interesting experience and he’s learned a lot along the way. But at least he’s doing something. Something that we could be doing. I gave him $20 towards his efforts. And I regret nothing. I thank him for what he's done and continues to do.

 

It’s because of that one guy….and because I saw how we’ve lost a number of subway cars last year to the scrapper…that made me want to go out and take photos of what we have now saved. I guess this is why  I’ve taken as much time to try to document what we have right now. It might seem half-assed. I will admit to that. And I know that this is not enough.

 

But thing is, I want to do more. And we should do more. I want to do more than just snap photos and gather data. I want to not only learn the equipment, but “feel” it. I want to know what goes behind keeping the equipment we have running. I want to help restore. I want to paint. I want to clean. A few times a week I pass by 207^th Street Yard to and from work, and I see these R12 and R14 cars sitting there. Lots of times I think to myself “Shoot, if they went out to ask us to volunteer to help ‘em clean, fix up, help assemble, and even paint these metal boxes of railcars, where do I f*ckin’ sign up?”

 

But how? Where do we start? Lots of us, myself included, can only go as far as, say, donate money whenever we visit the Transit Museum. I make it a point to donate some money – whether $20 or $5, or even some spare change – whenever I visit. Because even spare change can go a long way – maybe towards that one cracked window that’s covered with scotch take on the one R15 subway car, for example.

 

Here’s where I make a plea to the museums out there that have personnel and volunteers who work hard and pour in their blood, sweat, and tears, and their souls, to keep the equipment we’ve grown up with working. It’s because of them we can be nostalgic and relive the memories we had when riding that subway car or on that bus. Specifically, I make this plea to the New York Transit Museum and NYCT.

 

Other museums, like the Illinois Railway Museum, regularly ask for volunteers. They make it an effort to look for volunteers to help fix, clean, restore their equipment, as well as help ‘em move. They do many things to keep the public interested and wanting to see more – from music festivals to air shows….they make an effort to bring people in.  And they make it worthwhile. That’s how they get their donations and the help they need.

 

Why can’t we really do that here? Not that NYCT doesn’t make an effort in bringing people in to ride the trains and visit their collections. They make an effort to bring people for special events to the museum occasionally. But is it enough? Can they do more than just put up a few lines on their website? Or on a small ad on the train, or by a few blurbs on social media? Why not attract more people to the museum with bigger ads? Or with other mediums (i.e.: newspapers)? Don’t just aim towards the railfan or the busfan or to the kids who do enjoy the collections….aim to bring all kinds of people to visit the collections. Find ways to make the casual rider or the Average Joe care about the museum. Advertise on the news…hell, get the mayor in on it. I remember those MOD trips that went literally everywhere. Why not have more fantrips like that, rather than just one part of the line? I heard that in the past, there used to be auctions. Why can’t we have those again?

 

And speaking of transit fans, why have they not reached out to this very community? These sites?  We have more than just transit fans: we come from all walks and boast various different kinds of talent in various crafts. Wood-making. Painting. Assembly. Electricity. Mechanics. Even as something simple as cleaning. Documenting. Filing. Advertising. You name it, it can be found here.  I know of a handful of people who, if there were a way to help out in restoration, even one part of a subway car, or one bus, they would be more than willing to do it, with little to even no pay. Bring us in. Entice us in. Attract us to the equipment. Not only give us reasons on why we should ride ‘em instead of chasing ‘em, but show us why it is important to do so. Why not open your doors, give us some paint brushes, some old rags, a broom and a mop, and we can give out hearts, blood, sweat, and tears to keeping the equipment we enjoy riding on.

 

I know that the suggestions I made above all involve money. Everything involves money. And we as transit fans have to also do our part. If we want to see Redbirds restored…if we want to keep seeing buses running every holiday season, we have to do more than just take a photo. We have to make it a point to put in some spare change in that clear box near the exit at the museum. Ask questions and listen, rather than speak and “know it all”. Let’s start making gatherings, collect funds towards attempting to fix up something that needs attention (and nowadays, it’s a lot of it). Let’s participate more in these events.

 

The point is that, we need to collaborate with one another in a positive and effective way. Let’s work together. Let’s interact with one another. Let’s get to know each other. Let’s actually do things towards the hobby we enjoy. Museums, open your doors. Both your front doors and your back doors. Ask for the help, let us help. Some of us want to make a difference. Try to bring about a bigger audience. Attract us to your grounds. Prove to us why we should care. Fellow transit fans, let us not only take a photo or document what we see, but also let us show that we do care. Let’s act – we don’t only like the *insert favorite subway car*, but we will do all we can to make sure nothing happens to it in the course of time, so that our kids, and their kids, and so on and so forth, can enjoy what we enjoy. Ask ourselves why we like what we enjoy and find ways to express that through actions.

 

These opinions are solely of my own, whether one agrees or otherwise. They are not to offend or make one person or group look better than another. They do not reflect a larger group, these opinions are just my $2.50. Thanks for reading.

Excellent post M. Friday 1986.

In response to his points, and to everyone generally:

Volunteers for the Transit Museum eventually stopped due to the same boorish behavior that we see immortalized on Youtube...railfans who volunteered could simply not be trusted not to steal things and take them home. That put the end to that.

The Transit Museum does gear the tours to the general public, not just railfans, which is why the fantrips have generally featured an attaction laden destination as part of the trip - so that families and casual riders can do something fun at the end of the line, or get a break from simply riding the train all day. While the old MOD trips were definitely catered for the railfan, those trips are more rare because the majority of the general public does not have the stamina to do 10+ hours on a train, particularly if travelling with small children. Everything else you've talked about they already do - the holiday trains get on the news, there is plenty of promotion. That aspect of what NYCT and the Transit Museum are doing works perfectly. As for their programming they are constantly doing new things - have you looked at their brochures? They have a Valentine's Day event in the museum for young single people living in the city. There are new things like trivia nights, and behind the scenes tours, or discussions of modern transit issues (some of which are free), and even exploration of the archives and other museums' or libraries' collections focused on specific topics. The programming is not the problem - the information is out there, and as a matter of fact, the Transit Museum has been seeing record visitorship, and is running more programs now than ever before. Other museums have been broadening their audience and programming, and the more successful ones are doing this better than the rest.

Even NYCT has greenlighted trips quite frequently - in addition to NYTM trips, you have trains running for playoff MLB games, opening day at Yankee Stadium, and the holiday train has become an annual rite. ALL of those trips are targeted to the general public, getting people interested in the old equipment and the subway of yesteryear, and cross promoting the Transit Museum while generating good PR for the MTA in an age, where, let's face it, there isn't much. Most cities don't even run trips like that officially - they are chartered at great expense by private groups generally, but here in NYC we have them free of charge, several times a year, in addition to the Transit Museum trips which do cost money.

There is, by necessity, a bit of an artificial wall between the general public and getting really involved in the hobby, and no generation until this one has really had trouble getting its good members past it. The wall exists to prevent those who are abusive or untrustworthy from gaining access. But until this most recent generation, I have not seen the bad overtake the good - they existed as separate entities, but now you see otherwise good kids who are new to the hobby getting sucked in and influenced by the dumbest, most obnoxious, most useless in the hobby until they too are part of the problem, and this is why I shake my head at the shenanigans that end up on the internet. A good number simply lose interest and walk away when they do finally "grow up", and this speaks to failure as a community.

Everything M. Friday just posted is all the information you need to know to begin getting involved - the information is all right there. The problem is few will act on it because it is unfamiliar, or uncertain, and we exist in a generation where everyone wants their hand held. There are pieces of NY equipment at several museums across the country, not just the NY Transit Museum, and each has their own policies, not all of which is "no volunteers".

Additionally, the CHILDREN that are running out and about today don't really have any skills or knowledge. Kids today grow up never having swung a hammer or turned a screwdriver, and the concept of actual work is foreign. Restoration is not for everyone, however, and plenty have done more without picking up a tool. Restoration is painstaking work, time consuming, and often not rewarding, until someday many years down the road when a car runs. How would you feel donating 4 hours of time just to remove a bunch of badly rusted screws, just so you can remove a single corroded piece of steel on a car with hundreds of them, that will need to be replaced?

The only reason museums like IRM, Seashore, Branford, Bay Area (WRM), and Kingston even exist is because an earlier generation had the foresight to acquire property and equipment at deep discount, and drummed up the interest enough to maintain the costs of operating such through membership fees and some public programming, while keeping enough talented people around who could do the work to keep them growing. However as time has gone on, more of these places have had to turn to pay people to do tasks that could once be done by volunteers. Skills are dying. People no longer possess the knowledge to do what they need to do. They no longer possess the wherewithall and the charisma to spearhead serious efforts. As much as the R36 guy did his research on the car itself, it's ultimately a well intentioned but feeble attempt. It demonstrates some of the disconnect with railfans and reality - there is more to a campaign to save a car than simply asking someone else (the TA) to do it. As much as putting money in a donation box to the Transit Museum is a good thing, are you taking ownership of the process? Are you donating money towards specific projects that are actually going on (hopefully everyone is aware that nonprofits have to use restricted donations for their intended purposes), whether it's at NYTM or elsewhere?

You want to save a car? You need a place to put it, preferably where it can be run, you need transportation to get it there, you need a business plan to get your organization up and running (and ultimately solvent), you need insurance, and you need the tools and manpower to maintain your property and equipment.

Over the years, we have witnessed the complete dissolution of several museums, including Bob Diamond's little effort at a waterfront trolley line in Brooklyn. No organization is immune to it simply by the nobility of its intentions.

The problem with the current generation is that they are unwilling to step away from the computer and do something. While "Doing something" is not posting on Facebook, stating intentions, or speaking with other railfans about contemporary issues, etc., "Doing something" can be internet based...as long as it is adding value to the community. While the internet was relatively new, Dave Pirmann created nycsubway.org. Has anyone thought about what will happen to the amazing body of knowledge contained within that site when he is no longer the individual paying the bill for the server, or when the site outlives him someday, a simple reality of life and death itself? Hopefully, someday there is a contingency plan, and thankfully for that example, I can say that it is on the minds of some who possess the involvement to get it done. But the same issue that faces nycsubway.org someday also goes for any user generated content that has been placed on the internet. Life is temporary, and so is the internet. This has always been the enduring value of the printed word, or BOOKS, to a generation that would rather read about it on a Kindle or Wikipedia.

There are existing outlets to get involved - from volunteering at some of these other places discussed, or even up to and including working for the Transit Authority itself in various capacities - which is often what separates the men from the boys, when holding down a livelihood becomes at stake. It's not for everyone, that's for sure, and only those that are able to actually perform the job and put their "buffing" to the side will last. But what's gained for those that do take those steps is KNOWLEDGE and SKILLS.

Got your own ideas? Want to do better? Stop TALKING about it on the internet, and go to one of these places, and learn some skills. Get to a position where you can affect positive change. Along the way you'll either get a reality check and learn to work within the system that already exists, or if your idea still seems reasonable, you'll be equipped with the skills and knowledge to make it happen, the self awareness to know the obstacles you'll encounter, and the respect of some of your peers that you just might have a chance to accomplish something.

There's not too many more ways to say it. The world is huge, life is short, and possibilities for wealth and social standing may be limited, but the possibilities for what you do with your life are limitless, even as short a time as we have. The only thing you have to do is pursue it, because no one will for you, no one's going to hold your hand, or show you the way. That goes for anything in life, not just museum cars, being a responsible railfan, or anything else transit related. You have people who develop an interest in something from a young age, and they find a way to make a living at it - whether it's trains, boats, fishing, throwing out garbage, building things, cooking, or helping sick people get better.

You see some of these middle aged and older railfans that weren't the good ones and you usually see the same thing - someone smelly, poorly groomed, walking around in ill fitting clothing blabbering on about something, often unemployed and living on limited income or with parents - what would generally be considered a failure as an adult. It's just a pitfall of the hobby like being a loudmouth drunk who gets into bar fights is a stereotypical pitfall of someone whose hobby is sports. Young people have time to avoid this, and be productive. Yet when they get drawn it as people new to the hobby by those who someday will fit this description, and begin to act that way themselves, and lose interest in the pursuit of knowledge and skills in the hobby in favor of this ridiculous "I'm first" impulse, you have a real problem.

Generations before this one have already accomplished great things when it has come to rail preservation, but if the next generation doesn't step up when it's time for whatever reason, it's going to be a sad sad song on the world's smallest violin. This will be my last post on the topic because there's nothing more to be said - I respect that you see my point but many here won't (particularly those who are part of the problem, regardless of whatever internet persona they have). The truth is that until the hard lessons of the past are repeated for this next generation, I don't think they ever will, and even then only some will.

Im just going to say this:I am part of this new generation and while there maybe crazy idiots there a more fans who are responsible,smart,innovative minds that are determined to improve transit in their communities(I am one of them).

 

We are more quieter that the minority of idiots because their "noise" attracts attention from the mainstream.The efforts of us future innovators are hidden for the most part from the mainstream where as the loudmouths as you call them are unfortunately in view of the average rider.

 

As a whole transit is stuck in traditional viewpoints and it is up to the new generation to take up the challenge of breaking away from these traditional views and in innovative ways improve transit for the sake of the millions of people who use it NOT break rules constantly while railfanning and add a negative stigma to the innovators.

 

Note in no way shape or form that I am saying "don't railfan" I am saying do it responsibly.

 

Just my $2.50.Carry on.

It goes beyond "railfanning responsibly". A little history will show you that the only reason there are R-9s and Lo-Vs to ride is generations of foresight, planning, and efforts from people interested in the hobby who DIDN'T just hold a camera. That's why someday there will be R-32s, R40 slants, etc. being saved. But every generation has to fight its own battles to save, restore, refurbish, and protect the old equipment, and I just don't see many people who are interested in doing anything other than holding a camera these days and it's scary to think of what it could mean in the future.

Social media and Facebook have just created an outlet for people to act like compete asses and put it all over the internet. The "cool kids" aren't the ones running to ride the subway just to snap a bunch of photos of something like that, but looking at the internet that's what you'll see, and it's easy to see people new to the hobby falling in with and being MISDIRECTED INTO these large crowds of blubbering idiots that participate in these sorts of activities, whether it's on fantrips, or just riding the subway generally, or trying to catch a particular train on a particular line.

I'm glad you railfan responsibly, but I'm looking at it from a completely different perspective than you: old equipment only gets preserved because PEOPLE put in the effort to do it. No amount of railfanning will save cars from the scrapper, and no amount of letter writing, if not backed up by relevant and timely ACTION will either. It requires maturity, something few people have.

Generations before this one, buffs have gotten jobs with various transit agencies in various titles (not just operating ones) and LEARNED A LOT, and used their knowledge, and promotions, to RESPONSIBLY safeguard and maintain museum cars - not just in NYC, but around the country in various museums, and around the WORLD.

WITHOUT extraordinary efforts like that, all will ultimately be lost. I just don't see that in the younger generation the last few years. Many of them aren't interested in actual knowledge, only "current events".

But I digress. There are many basic roles that railfans have filled within the transit community for ages, things you don't need to be an employee to document, to obtain information:

-For all of the people that make half assed efforts doing things like car data sheets, do you actually archive the old ones? Or do you just keep updating them constantly to reflect what's current? In 20 years when someone asks you what cars were in service on the F line in April 2014, will you be able to answer that question? Do you possess the knowledge to sit down in 20 years and write an article filled with historical facts and relevant personal observations detailing the time period for a railfan magazine, or will you be too busy chasing the first R211 to ever run in service on the G line?

-Are your photographs and videos archival quality? Do you keep and preserve newsletters and other documents that are relevant to the time period to help the future understand what it was like today? Are your photographs just about the equipment itself (not helpful) or photographing it within its environment? To what extent (particularly on outside lines) do you incorporate the surrounding buildings, and parts of the NYC landscape that are constantly changing into your landscape? THAT'S how you take a good photo, not just being the first one to find a car on particular line. Sometimes the mundane is most relevant because that's what people will want to remember. Does your interest go beyond the equipment? Do you photograph interesting things in STATIONS too, even when the train is not there?

-Behaving responsibly is an important part of that as well. It doesn't call attention to the hobby, to boorish behavior, or alienate or piss of transit workers who have to deal with it.

These are roles railfans have filled throughout history, and they are why we have photos of Lo-Vs and R-12s on the 3rd Avenue El, or R-16s sitting at 168th St. on the Jamaica elevated, or know, despite a complete lack of photographs, the service pattern, hours of operation, and equipment utilization of the Court Street Shuttle. While these roles are mostly on the fringe, and nothing to do with preserving equipment, they are still valuable. Railfans who have actually become knowledgeable have occasionally developed the interest and aptitude to help in the preservation effort, and consequently have increased their knowledge, and even life skills as a result.

If all the young generation wants is paparazzi railfans chasing current events, irresponsibly posting stupid things on the internet, making sound effects, building crap for video games and train simulators, and goofing off and acting like jackasses, that's all you'll have, and the future of the hobby will indeed be a bunch of people sitting around at an ERA or UTC meeting watching slides, making sound effects, and operating video game trains while lamenting the fact that every one of the cars photographed or depicted in game is gone forever.

SMH this is why this generation of "railfans" is so mindf*cked.

They don't give anything to the hobby, they don't spend any effort or resources to keep these things here for future generations, they just ASSUME and DEMAND that someone else will do it for them.

They "chase" paid trips because of "photo opportunities" yet habitually ride every free trip, they interfere with and obstruct transit operations to get an "exclusive" photo like idiotic paparazzi chasing celebrities, just so they can brag about how they were "first" to post it as if anyone on the internet will actually remember or actually respect them more for it.

Yet when it comes to actually learning anything about the equipment or history beyond just propulsion sounds and what cars ran where, they run away scared.

When it comes to a serious preservation effort, they write letters demanding action but do NOTHING of their own to back that up. When it comes to supporting various organizations that have, largely through their own efforts, to this point done their part to keep this history alive, they do nothing.

This is the future, this is the generation, and it's SCARY.

Without dedicated people working in and outside of various transit agencies, this history will be lost forever if no one is there to fight for it. And fighting for it is not fighting to be at the front window to take a picture, or be the first to break an internet "exclusive", or writing letters demanding change. It's sometimes being the change you want to see, and I just see a whole bunch of railfans, that, unlike previous generations, who were relative pioneers in the field, are simply unwiling and unable to step back from behind the camera to do much of anything else like pick up a tool, or raise funds, and if that is really the case, it spells disaster for efforts to keep this history alive and working, and all that will be left in the end will be the same boring 3/4 quarter profile picture of the end of a subway car you all fight so unoriginally to obtain.

Today it may be an R32 on the R, but tomorrow it will be something else and while you're all fighting and arguing over nonsense, the history we have before our very eyes will disappear or fall into disrepair. And then we'll be just like any other city that ignored its historic equipment.

And based on previous generations, this obnoxious behavior tends to go away once someone steps beyond the looking glass and actually gets involved in the hobby instead of being another loudmouth blogging idiot with too many opinions, no skills, and not enough relevant experience.

Try it, you might like it.

Couple of things to clarify in order to avoid misinformation:

-Probationary XX is entitled to 12 hours off between jobs. Otherwise, minimum 10 hours off between jobs (and they'll generally give you close to, if not more than, 12). Picked XL is entitled to 10.

-EVERYONE must have minimum 8 hours off between jobs. No exceptions.

-Rookies are not assigned to the board when they first come out. New rookies will be assigned to the road to learn it, then once over a month of familiarization has passed, then they will start to see board assignments mixed in with road, and even switching and yard jobs. Generally speaking the overwhelming majority of people who will be assigned to the board are extra extra, extra list, or personnel working an RDO who fell to the board, but there are enough jobs to go around that rookies and train operators who are XX are "only" on board.

-Train operators do not work platform unless they are restricted pending medical, an investigation (having a 12-9 counts, even if you've done nothing wrong), or are taken out of service/pending or settled discipline. XX Train operators will only be assigned YARD (YD), ROAD (RD/GD), STATION SWITCHING , or BOARD (BD) jobs under normal circumstances, and are not eligible to work in work trains until they have 2 years in title. Also FYI, "GD" road jobs are road jobs created by a general order, which is a planned service change.

I will add though, if you have the capacity pay attention when someone is showing you something "not schoolcar". I'm not saying do it that way when you are on your own, but just be aware that another way exists...because it's something you may see in the field and just knowing what's being done and why may save your bacon someday, particularly if you're working in the yard and you have to troubleshoot an unexpected problem...since when there's an incident in the yard BOTH partners go downtown if it's reported or causes a delay to service.

There are a lot of silly reasons for people getting in trouble down here ranging from leaving the reverser in the controller at the terminal to applied handbrakes to not knowing where you're going to not knowing basic troubleshooting.

The more knowledge you have the more likely you can nip something in the bud (particularly in the yard) before it becomes a big problem.

With that said, never do anything you're not comfortable with on your own. Just because a crew room lawyer type tells you a "safe" shortcut doesn't mean you should do it, especially if you're not familiar with the rationale. In time your operation will get more efficient over time all on its own - just read my thread about timers in the employee section, all good operators know that already...yet knowing that in depth will probably save you about 2-5 minutes running time on any given line, and everything in there is completely rule book compliant.

You have union representation while you are on probation. The only things about being on probation:

-You belong to Schoolcar.

-You can be fired without a disciplinary hearing. This is because disciplinary hearings occur through Labor Relations. Since you belong to Schoolcar, Schoolcar is responsible for disciplining you, sending you for additional training, etc. Often the formality of a hearing does not occur. While field supervision will conduct their own investigations of any incidents, schoolcar handles the follow up. This is not a bad thing, as they tend to be more lenient than Labor Relations. Thus while the union can represent you, most times post-incident follow up is handled by the train operator directly with the training unit. However the union has gotten involved to help save probationaries in the past, particularly with instances relating to use of sick time as it pertains to TA extending the employee's probation period.

Dues is about $27 out of every paycheck, so every two weeks.

Very-sound advice!

 

Train-control is paramount. Controlling the train is (more-than) "half the battle". You should feel that your train is under control at all times. Whether you're doing 45 mph, or creeping up to "key" an automatic.

 

There are some "fast" stations down here! A fast station is one that allows you to enter at maximum speed. There are no grade-timers, inclines, sharp curves/obstructions that prevent you from keeping it "wrapped" (max power/"multiple") in approach to the station. I'm in the IRT. Off the top of my head: 14th St. s/b 7 Av Express; 96th St. n/b Lex Local; Pelham Parkway s/b White Plains Local, and Junction Blvd. n/b Flushing Express. These are stations you can approach in excess of 40 mph. As SubwayGuy said, you need a big brake outside the station! On tech trains, a full service; on SMEE equipment, 40-60lbs. The "big brake" rapidly reduces the momentum of your 400+ ton train as it is blasting into the station. Timing is everything. At some of these stations, if you wait to brake while in the station-- you are likely to put a door panel (or more) out of it. It's really not that scary at all. You learn how these trains respond, and you adjust accordingly. Can't stress that enough. Even within the same car class (R-62A, for example) you have great variation. Hell, even within the same consist, on different ends!

 

Moving trains is fun. It's not that complicated, but it takes practice, repetition, concentration, attentiveness, and intuition. On that last one, intuition, a lot of this is "feel". You have to feel that train braking to an appropriate speed, and "release" brake accordingly, to get you to the "10 car marker". You don't want to release too much, too little, etc. You'll develop that intuition the more you do it. Just remember-- its always better to take more brake, than not enough. You can always "give it back" by releasing. If you take insufficient brake-- and too late into the stop-- you're basically screwed.

I would add one correction to this. While most of it is sound advice, I don't recommend taking that heavy of a brake, especially on a tech train unless you absolutely need to.

The key to making smooth stops is not to overbrake, but brake earlier. You want to leave yourself a cushion should you need it. Case in point: Train comes flying into a fast station. T/O takes a full service brake on a tech train. Train delays, or brake is lighter than expected. You've already shot your wad...there's nothing you can do now except hope and pray that it stops at the 10 car marker. Vs. coming in still fast, but breaking earlier and lighter, and reacting to what you get. Now if you pull 2/3 of a full service brake earlier and realize the brake feels on the light side, you have a cushion to play with, and can take more. At 45 MPH, every second the brake unexpectedly takes to begin applying, you're moving about 66 feet per second, or more than a car length in either division. So if you pull full service and your brakes take ONE SECOND longer to apply than you're expecting, you've lost an entire car length of cushion. This is why it is so important to brake early

Same goes for SMEE. Remember what I said - the more you grab, the longer it will take to get it. You'll get 20 pounds almost immediately. 40 pounds will feel like it takes about 2 seconds. 60 or 70 will take even longer. So why not grab 20-30 early, feel how the train reacts with plenty of room for error, and then grab more if you need it? Doing it this way the train will also respond a little quicker (that's just the way dynamic brakes work) when, say, you adjust and decide you need 40, vs. going straight to 40.

The key with SMEE is to figure out at what point your dynamics drop out - the train feels like it lurches forward and the brakes get very light - and not go past it. This can occur if you grab 30 pounds of brake, then try to release to 10 or 15. On most SMEE trains dynamics drop out around 20 pounds, but you have to find out during your brake tests, or entering the first few stations on the line where it is on YOUR train and adjust your operation accordingly. If you accidentally drop your dynamics out, it takes a second or two for the train to respond when you request brake again, and if you make this mistake at the wrong time in a fast station, it will put you out. That's another reason to take that initial brake a little earlier as you can HOLD IT and adjust if you need more, and keep the stop smooth.

Combine this advice with the idea that you should be aiming to be able to stop a few feet before the stop marker...then as you approach it with your train under full control, you can begin releasing some of your brake, which will smooth out the stop, and also bring you right up to the marker where you can make a perfect stop.

Subwayguy is absolutely right! The only thing I will slightly disagree with is that you have to be perfect by road posting! I surely wasn't! However, you must be able to have your train under control at all times and be able to stop at or as close to the 10/S car marker

To clarify this "perfect" what I mean is this: By the time you are road posting you MUST be able to stop that train in the station. 100% of the time, every time.

That means no overruns. While consideration is given to the fact you're a student should one occur, an overrun is an overrun and at the point of road posting, it WILL go on your permanent record, even if it's chalked up to "part of the learning process." So the reason I am saying you need to be perfect is simple...Keep your record clean.

Not being exactly on the 10 car marker can happen, no big deal as long as you're in the station. There are procedures for this that don't involve an RTO charge and supplemental discipline, or referral for retraining.

Any station where a precise stop is required (such as gap fillers in the A Division - South Ferry/14th Street), missing the gap fillers IS an overrun, so that's the one exception to this rule. There you really need to be on point, so come in as slow as you need to in order to hit that mark.

SubwayGuy as always I look forward to reading your informative posts !  Thanks man !

You're welcome. Those are general guidelines...very much on the conservative side, feel free to use them. As your experience grows you may feel comfortable doing slightly faster, that is OK as long as you have a well developed feel for the train and how fast you're going. I can't stress the part about getting the feel enough...you will have trains with bad speedometers, and you've still got to complete the trip adhering to speed restrictions, clearing timers, and having full control of your train to make proper stops.

One more thing:

When you practice station stops with your class (with an empty train) is the time to try new things and master the feel of the train. Basically anything goes when you're on the train with no one but your class and the TSS's, so long as you don't hit anything (signals, portable train stop, 12-9). So overrunning a station with a clear leaving signal is not the end of the world if it does happen when you're practicing with the TSS's, although obviously you should try to avoid it to get in the habit of making good stops. Just remember that by the time you're on your own, or even road posting, you've got to be perfect.

You will have much more time to practice on station stops, so don't be alarmed if you don't have it mastered right now. While you're YX, or yard posting, there's nothing that says you can't practice stops whenever you are transfering a train, laying up, washing at a foreign yard, or doing a put-in. Just be sure to sound your horn (unless it's late at night outdoors) so the passengers know you're not stopping, and be sure to take off right after you've practiced the stop so you're not sitting in the station for any length of time.

OK I went down for my drug test today. They let me do both of them at once since I was scheduled for the C/O today and Wednesday will be the O/P. Ms. Shivers made the call, apparently enough people on this forum recognize her name and tell her about here. I felt bad she has been trying to find this forum I forgot the URL offhand when she asked but it looks like she wanted to join here lol.

 

Speaking of which she suggested since I am on both lists and the conductor will call months before the operator will that I should take the conductor when they call, then when they call for the operator postpone my name on that list till I get my 1 year probation in for the conductor then reestablish my name on the operator list and take that position. This way I set myself up for if something goes wrong godforbid I have a position to fall back to rather than be out completely otherwise. Makes sense but how would that work anyway?

 

I am guessing that would put me on another years probation as well as schoolcar again (for the new position) and probably an extra year before getting top pay. Do they fire you for the conductor so you can take the operator position or just let you transfer or what since it is coming in from the open competitive list? That wouldn't make much sense though since if it is a fire and rehire then technically I wouldn't have an old position to fall back on (unlike a promotion). Oh and Ms. Shivers says that the last hired is 1919 on the train conductor list and 1886 for the train operator list as of today.

 

 

Also, yeah now that both lists changed their starting pay what is the top pay on both? Actually what is the scale for raises now on both? I know this is the 8098 thread but still asking about both includes it so it should be ok I think.

 

 

 

Just to try to be helpful myself where I can... Mard as a guess I would say you will probably be called at the end of the year or beginning next year based on your list number, the current list number hired, the projected hiring rate of 40 a month on this list from what I read on these forums and a little math. Don't quote me on that though since SubwayGuy is actually more accurate and knows what he is talking about and went through this all already but it's probably the best ballpark figure you can get for right now at least. Allday I heard it is probably a little over $35/hr top pay since the original top pay is $31.87 and since the 1.11 percent payraise after the last union agreement it would bring it up to $35.3757 but by going on that math the starting rates were slightly off so I would expect these to be as well.

Should that be the route you go this would apply to you:

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/31046-train-operator-exam-8098-dcas-notice-of-result-letter-arrived/page-296?do=findComment&comment=748414

The two most important things for a new train operator:

-Develop good control of the train

-Develop a good feel for the handling of the train

That means you should be able to operate a train as well with a broken or incorrect speedometer as well as you can with a working one. Learn not to rely on the speedometer, and take advantage of a working one to perfect an idea how fast you're going based on visual cues. Once you develop this skill, here are some general rules (these are on the conservative side...in time you will come up with your own) you can use to perfect your station stops. All of the above assume good conditions (not snowy, icy, and you have a good braking train)

-Faster than 35 MPH...brake outside the station. Over 40 MPH you will want to brake well before the station.

-35 MPH brake as you enter the station

-30 MPH brake 3 cars into the station

-25 MPH brake just before the conductor's board.

Again, as long as you have a good braking train and good conditions (not snowy/icy), if you are at or under 30 MPH by the conductor's board and have a brake applied there is no reason you can't make the stop.

Brake earlier if the station is downgrade (downhill) and later if the station is upgrade (uphill)

Last thing...don't overbrake...especially with SMEE. A good T/O on SMEE never needs more than 40 pounds, and 20-30 is generally the rule. Also on SMEE, the more brake you grab the longer the train will take to respond.

Keep those things in mind, practice more, and in time you'll get it down.

QUESTION?  What is a realistic time frame from DT to Starting?  Im just trying to get a ballpark figure here.  I know everyones situation is different.  Im just wondering if it would be weeks? Months? or maybe 1 year from now.  Im so anxious and eager to start! LOL 

^^ You just answered your own question.

There are some people who took both 8094 and 8098 and got called for 8094 as far back as 2 years ago and is finally getting the call for 8098. Now that not considered a promotion if they the OC for both tests.

Those people are treated exactly the same as promotional employees. This is a common misconception that needs to be cleared up. Just because you don't take a "promotional" exam does not mean you need to resign your current position with MTA to accept a new one in a different title from an open competitive list. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING that says the word "resignation" on it! I will explain why below after the details:

Assuming you already work for NYCT* - You ONLY have to sign paperwork deferring your start date in the new title until the date you being training for your new position.

*If you are changing agencies (IE from LIRR to NYCT, this does not apply to you as depending on which agencies and unions are involved, different combinations can take place.)

-Your pension stays exactly the same, and your service time is continuous. Your pass number will not change (unless you are changing agencies, but if that's the case, I already said this doesn't apply to you).

-Your vacation, sick time, personal balances (AVA, OTO, PLD, Birthday), benefits, and payroll deductions carry over without interruption. However, any future vacation dates you have picked in your old title will be CANCELLED (as you are now in a new title), and the vacation time will remain in your bank. You will have to deal with your training unit and the pick section to reschedule, if that is possible (you are not allowed to miss training). If your vacation cannot be rescheduled, you will be paid for it up to one week.

It is basically a promotion, but you must state that you came from the O/C test, O/C list, and make sure you properly fill out all the sections of the paperwork once you're brought back to 180 that deal with "have you/do you currently work for NYC Transit"

In other words, if a C/R takes an O/C exam to become a T/O, and decides they don't like it, they can go back to C/R within 12 months without penalty...see 9B. They will get their old seniority back, have continuous service, and be awarded any raises they would have received staying as a C/R the whole time when they go back. This is why it's critical that anyone doing it this way FILLS OUT THE PAPERWORK correctly at 180 Livingston. If you already work here, you do not forego this right just because you're coming off an O/C list...see 9B:

I have my first practical coming up and not going to lie I am a bit nervous.  I have been studying my notes everyday, past all my quizzes but what really counts now is the 1st practical.  I am an old fart (lol) so I might not be as quick as someone younger but hope someone can share any words of wisdom.  The practical for cuts/adds could be on any trains that we learned so far right ? (R32/42, R46, R68, R160), in addition to reading the iron, track questions(parts of a track) and reading signals (low home, marker, standard home signal) ? Thank you. 

All fair game.

-Do everything in the proper order

-Be thorough, take your time, and have a process for how you "OK the train" - you should not be all over the place when OKing it, and if you are, it means you're that much more likely to miss something.

-If you can't handle the silence while you are being watched, it is OK to talk to the person evaluating you...tell them what you are doing, what you are looking for, if everything you observe is correct or needs to be fixed, and how you'd correct it. This will ensure they are comfortable with you. If you just stumble through the car touching things without saying anything, they'll probably ask more questions than if you clearly communicate in a way that indicates you know what you are doing.

-If by some chance you do miss something, and something else is off...catch your mistake, go back, and find it. Think through what could have gone wrong logically to find the problem, don't go on a wild goose chase.

And most important:-

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MOVE THAT TRAIN WITH A HANDBRAKE ON...this is auto fail.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAKE A CUT AND YOU HAVEN'T TAKEN DOWN THE SAFETY CHAINS/BARRIER SPRINGS...also auto fail.

I think you're referring to 804 at 239. BTW that signal in relations to track indication is a piece of junk. Signals dept has not maintained the indication display at all.

Yep...that's what happens when I write posts at 3am...804 not 408.

The funny thing is, I still haven't seen one of those track indication signals lol

239 yard entering on the lead, 408 ball will tell you which lead you're going to. Leaving Mosholu has one. Entering East 180th Yard from the north too. Entering Livonia Yard is one too. You won't see many on the IRT mainline...only one that comes to mind off the top of my head is at the north end of 14th St. on 2 track on Broadway, which will tell you when you're turning there if you're being crossed to 3 track or 4.

Tommy John, for track indication signal just give the definition for a yard indication signal (it's the same). Then add at the end, "Signal also indicates the train will be going to track ##"

Also the reason I posted the D GT10 in this thread, is that's one of a few signals that ONLY appears in the rule book. So you can use the induction manual, signal guide, or even the unofficial flashcards (if your class gets them) to study, but make SURE you review the rulebook regardless (make sure you don't miss ANY signals), and make SURE every definition you write can match either the rule book, induction book, or signal guide.

Also...even if you use the signal guide be sure to use the rule book also. There are a couple of signals on there you won't see in the signals book or the flash cards (if you're class even gets them...they're not issued by schoolcar and therefore not official).

Case in point (you won't see this in the signal guide unless they've updated it):

Thanks guys for the feedback.

 

Just to clarify, one of my instructors said put it like how it says in the book and that's it, nothing more because he said if they ever questioned you then you can show them the book but we had another instructor this week (only for this week because our main instructor had to do something) said you have to write it out more because the book (Induction book) is too vague and he said they will question you further.  So the substitute TSS had us doing signals practice everyday this week (first time we practiced signals, 4 weeks in) and he is adding words, sometimes an extra sentence in where it doesn't say it in the book and its kind of screwing up the students on which one they should study and memorize. The whole class did terrible. He was surprised and asked us why we aren't doing this everyday in school car from week 2/3. We are behind a good full week from what is on the schedule because orientation got screwed up and we had to finish what we didn't do at orientation at week 2 and 3.

 

Maybe once we get the signal book, that book will have more of a complete definition than the induction book ? From what I read here we are suppose to get the signal book the 1st week right ? We are going into the 5th week man w/o that signal book.

When in doubt, use the rule book. That has pretty much everything in it.

For each write-in, write the aspect and definition.

Aspect: Green over green fixed interlocking signal

Indication: Proceed at the allowable speed on the main route, expect the next signal to be clear.

You don't need to write them separately like that. Just put it together: Green over green fixed interlocking signal. Proceed at the allowable speed on the main route, expect the next signal to be clear.

Be especially careful with your signs. For example 10 CAR.

10 car reverse move stop marker. Fixed miscellaneous sign indicating the point at which a 10 car train has cleared all switches and signals necessary for a move in the opposite direction.

The signs have the more complicated definitions, and once you've got the basics of the automatics and interlockings down, you'll want to devote a decent sized portion of time to the miscellaneous stuff. Also don't forget that audible and movable signals are still SIGNALS, and you may be asked to write one out on a write in.

What happens when a crew that is supposed to go to Dyre Avenue, instead is put on a train that goes to Nereid Avenue?  And what if that rerouted crew is scheduled to make another run from Dyre?  All of the crews that are scheduled to go to Nereid Avenue are finishing crews, meaning, their work day is done once that train is in the yard.  Often, however, crews do not make the trips they are scheduled to make, but make a trip either earlier or later than scheduled.  Been there, done that.

Not true. There are at least 4 regularly scheduled intervals on PM jobs that have the FIRST trip to 238, and a second trip originating out of Dyre sometime thereafter. The train operator is expected to deadhead from 239 St. Yard (after laying the train up) to Dyre for the second trip, and the conductor is expected to deadhead from 238 St. station after working the platform.

All Dyre crews are sent to Dyre ONLY unless there is a disruption on that line, in which case it works the same as any other reroute. A Dyre crew will NOT get rerouted to 238th without a very good reason, and if that's the case, there's a disruption on the Dyre line, and that crew will not be expected to make their Dyre interval (and will be governed by radio instruction as to what they are doing).

If crews are "behind" they are behind relative to their destination. Thus it is possible for 238 crews to be one behind, and Dyre crews in place, or vice versa (same goes with 4s to Burnside vs. 4s to Woodlawn). Crews generally do not swap destination terminals, with the exception of the LAST scheduled train to 238...if they are behind, and 239 St. Yard doesn't need the train on the upper deck for the AM (entirely possible given White Plains can just lay up a 5 train running in service on the 2 in its place), then they will be sent to Dyre on a later interval. If 239 wants the train, then they'll make an extra to 238.

However, since Dyre is the "regular" terminal for the 5 and takes precedence in terms of its departures being on schedule (vs 238 which doesn't put out any service in the PM...it's a destination that leads to the train being laid up), ANY 238 crew can be sent to Dyre in service if there is a gap in service and Dyre happens to need a train. But a Dyre crew will NOT get sent to 238th without something big going wrong on the Dyre line.

Can anyone give me some info on the 1st practical ? Is it uncouple and couple plus train inspection ? We did uncouple and couple today but our TSS said our first practical is coupling and uncoupling plus troubleshoot ?  I thought troubleshooting was a different practical?  All of us did uncouple and coupling about 4x each. I really truly hope we have more practice for our 1st practical than just today man. 

-Track & switch components

-Reading the Iron

-Difference between low home signal and an automatic, and function/definition of a low home signal

-Preparing a train for yard movement (includes how you would handle certain incorrect conditions on a train you are preparing for yard movement) - your train will NOT be OK to move. You must perform the procedure correctly.

-Identifying key train components.

-Moving the train in the yard (ie asking permission to leave a track, safety stops, etc.)

-Cut and add procedures

Each student will go one at a time, and anyone who has completed the practical will be separated from those yet to take it, so there's no sharing of what goes on.

3 quick animations that will tell you all you need to know about reading iron:

Facing Point

Trailing Point #1

Trailing Point #2

Thanks for the tip. What exactly do you mean when you say "respect" the yellows, switches, stop arm and signals ? Do you mean that is what people mess up on if they do mess up ? 

Yellow signals warn you that the next signal "may" be red. Thus you should "be prepared to stop at the next signal".

Yellows are your best friend, but you need to heed them until you are familiar with the road.

If you cannot see a red signal, but you see a yellow...SLOW DOWN...unless you already know where the next signal is and where to slow for it. Just because you can't see a red signal yet doesn't mean it's not there. Some of them really come out of nowhere, and are infamous "hot spots". The same is true of certain timers. But a yellow will always be there to warn you, it's how you react to it that determines whether you're going home at the end of the day, or heading into the dispatcher's office to make that call to Control.

Some signals are so problematic for road crews when red that TWO yellows precede them, but you can't always count on there being two yellows approaching a red signal.

There are lots of situations where new people can get tripped up (literally). For example, at most stations, you will have two signals...an ENTERING signal, and a LEAVING signal. The entering signal comes right before the station, and guards entry into it. The leaving signal is beyond the station limit, and guards the train leaving the station to go toward the next one. Generally speaking, unless there is a train in front of you, the entering signal will ALWAYS be yellow. The leaving signal will be red, yellow, or green depending on how far ahead of you the previous train is. The reason for this is since a yellow means "be prepared to stop at the next signal", the next signal is the stop marker for your train length, whether OPTO, 4, 6, 8, 10, or 11. Thus you should be prepared to stop for it. You could be the only train on that line, and that signal will STILL never clear to green, always yellow.

So a new person gets used to this as they go down the road. Now they're coming into a different station. Yellow entering. Cool. Wrap it up. Don't need to slow down, as long as we can make the station stop. WRONG. Just so happens this station has a HOOLIGAN (sideways automatic signal within station limits). That yellow is telling the train operator the hooligan is red. Train operator realizes it about 200 feet out going 35 MPH down a hill. Gonna stop in time? Definitely not. CHOW, and "Control come into the #### out of XXXX". But if that same person respected the yellow, they would have come in much slower.

That's why one of the main messages I push in this thread is LEARN THE PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS OF YOUR DIVISION AND COMMIT THEM TO MEMORY. You should be taking notes when your class is operating a light train down the mainline practicing station stops. Same thing when you go road posting. Until you've learned your division, take your time, and have that train under complete control at all times. Once you've learned all the physical characteristics, keep current. Read the signal bulletins for changes (as well as posted notices in crew rooms, even if hand written), and if something has changed, or you think it might have been, go back to taking it easy until you've got the new layout down pat. And, keep learning. So you learn the regular service patterns. Now learn the layout of all those unused middle tracks for GO's, irregular moves, or jobs that have other than typical service patterns.

Well the ultimate solution to this entire thread, not to boast is simple. The MTA in the 60's and 70's should have carried out their promise to replace the 3rd Ave El with the to the Bronx with a new subway as stated in their presentations. That would have solved everything.

What should have happened was the Bronx portion of the Third Avenue El should have been connected to Lenox back when that option was still available. Imagine the service you could have had then, at a fraction of the cost of the pipe dream of building a full length 2nd avenue subway.

Questions for all you T/O's. How long did it take you personally(after school car) to become used to the job ? Meaning you go to work and you are familiar with everything like the back of your hand and everything becomes routine or 2nd nature to you?  I know everyone will be different but just curious.  For example my brother in law is a yellow taxi driver and he told me it took him about 1 year on the job to feel comfortable at it meaning he knows how to go to 95% of destinations, knows the ins and outs of traffic signs, where cops hide(lol) to give you a summons and all the little nuances of the job itself etc stuff like that.. Thanks guys for your feedback.

You never stop learning down here.

By the time you are released from schoolcar you should feel comfortable handling a train and operating in any environment. The rest is familiarization (there are literally thousands of obscure moves that you could be asked to make down here, and no one person knows them all). So you will continue learning for the rest of your career. If you don't, or you stop learning...you're doing it wrong.

By 3-4 months out of schoolcar you should have mastered operation of the lines in your division along the "regular" service patterns, but you'll still have much more to learn, and it will stay that way as long as you work here...even if you promote, or even if you just stay a T/O for the rest of your time.

Thank you guys for the responses. Appreciate you helping a rookie out.  Seems like they increased the training right ? From what I read on here people said it was 3-5 1/2 months before or am I mistaken ?  Man I am excited for this new venture !

A Division:

-2 months schoolcar instruction

-2 weeks yard posting

-3 months in the yard (unless they've ended the YX program before your class, but this is just a rumor and no dates have been confirmed)

-1 month schoolcar instruction, which includes 2 weeks operating trains overnight, where that will be all you do

-3 weeks road posting

-2 weeks schoolcar instruction

Total: Approximately 7 months

B Division follows the same layout but is longer since you have more posting, and slightly longer instruction periods since there are more types of equipment, and will be 9 months.

-In both divisions, you will have quizzes (including the signal quiz). Except on the infamous signal quiz, 80% is passing. Quizzes are not averaged, they are pass/fail. If you fail any quiz, you will get a retest...except the signal quiz. The signal quiz you must get 100%, no retests. It's not bad if you've studied. Look at your rule book AND your signal study guide, and memorize those definitions as close to word for word as you can. If you write something your instructor/the superintendent doesn't agree with and wants to mark wrong, you'd better be able to point to something you were given by MTA that says why what you wrote is OK.

-You will have a midterm exam which will consist of questions covering all of the material in that course to the point. 80% is passing.

-You will have 2 yard practicals. The first focuses heavily on "cuts and adds" - first you will have to prepare a train for yard movement, demonstrate that you can read iron (seriously...learn this skill and master it early), perform brake tests, and safely couple and uncouple trains. The second focuses on troubleshooting. First you will have to prepare a train for service (more involved), and troubleshoot a brake pipe rupture somewhere on your train. The ins and outs of all of these procedures will be covered and practiced during your training, and if you feel they have not been covered adequately, you may address it at the appropriate time. All practicals are pass/fail.

-"Posting" refers to the act of placing you with an experienced employee to learn the ins and outs of "familiarization" with an area. Familiarization is one of the most important aspects of training, as you need to be aware of the unique circumstances of where you are at all times. Yard posting will familiarize you with the yard layouts (so when you sign in and a dispatcher tells you your put-in is on Track 54, you know where that is...you don't just look for Track 1 and start counting up...which doesn't always work!), give you time to fine tune your train control, practice cuts and adds, get used to OKing trains for service, operate in and out of the shop, and learn the dos and don'ts of each yard. Road posting will familiarize you with each line's signals, fast stations, time controlled areas, tight curves where you should operate slower than what is posted, and lineups (routes).

-You will have a final exam which consists of slightly more questions than the midterm, which covers everything you've learned up to THAT point in the course. It is necessarily more involved than the midterm. Again, 80% is passing. Also don't think because you've "already" passed the signals exam you won't see a few write-ins here.

-You will have a road practical which consists of you operating an empty train down one of the lines in your division, with no supervision and only a superintendent present grading you. Some superintendents prefer to not be in the cab at all, and simply watch your operation from inside the passenger compartment. They will not give you any "tips" or reminders while operating. You must make proper station stops at all stops along the route, follow all posted speed restrictions, demonstrate good train control, and operate safely AND comfortably in accordance with the signal aspects being displayed (including timers). Hitting a signal, overrunning a station, repeatedly underrunning stations, coming close to hitting a red signal, poor train control, and erratic/uncomfortable braking are all causes for the superintendent to either fail you outright or recommend additional instruction. Again, as a practical this is pass/fail.

-Once you complete all these steps, you will be released to the road, and the crew office in your division will typically assign you an additional week of posting as "skill enhancement" where you will post on the same job for a week. Following that, you will work your assigned runs alone, but expect a TSS (supervisor) to ride with you for your first round trip each time you work a line for the first time on your own.

There is plenty of time and attention given to new T/O's...just speak up if you don't know something (don't operate blind), stay alert and thinking at all times, and learn to respect the yellow signals. Again, I say this to everyone - use the familiarization time in schoolcar to ACTUALLY get familiar with your division. It will help a lot, and use the schoolcar instruction periods (when it's just you and your class on an empty train) to mess around entering stations and learn what the train can actually do, and can't. Just don't ever hit a signal. DON'T BE SCARED TO RUN A STATION WHEN IT'S JUST YOU AND YOUR CLASS ON AN EMPTY TRAIN (unless the leaving signal is red). If you don't understand the limits of the train's braking, you won't master train control until you do. And you don't want passengers on your train when you finally do run that first one. Likewise, you won't learn anything braking really early and creeping up to the stop marker either. Be a sponge, learn everything you can...good AND bad. You want to know what TO do as much as you want to know what NOT to.