BrooklynBus

3 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Or the route might fail because that tunnel is so unpredictable.  

 

 Presumably, this route would run out of JG. Are CNG buses allowed in the tunnel?

The SI and Brooklyn Express buses seem to be doing okay in the tunnel

3 hours ago, kingal11234 said:

Why is there no bus between lower Manhattan and  Red Hook Brooklyn via the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel?

Because the MTA knows it would be very successful and they would rather people use the subways than the buses because they are cheaper to operate. They know if they start 20 or 30 minute service, the buses would be jammed and they would have to triple the service. 

Assemblyman Novakhov is holding a Transportation forum where you can demand answers from the MTA regarding their Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign on Monday September 18th at the Brooklyn School of Excellence, 23 Brighton 11 St. from 6-7:30 PM. Click on appropriate meeting in link below for flyer and details. There is an RSVP in the flyer. 

Of course the MTA didn’t publicize this event on their website, yet they state they want to hear your feedback. 

https://www.nyc.gov/site/brooklyncb15/meetings/neighborhood-meetings.page

54 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Ah, so you're closer to Brookdale then.... I'm right there, close to the ass end of KCH.....

Lol, that popeyes on the corner of Church/Linden.... See them seagulls & pigeons fighting for scraps every morning going to work (I dunno why they leave that dumpster area open like that)... lmfao.... Anyway, that little pocket along Church b/w Linden & 98th is part of E. Flatbush (so, we gotta claim that jank ass chicken spot on the corner of Church/Rockaway Pkwy also) ....

You'd be hard pressed to hear a Brownsville patron say that Church/Linden is a part of their neighborhood.... Matter fact, I've never heard anyone make the case for it.

So you consider Nostrand & Church a part of Flatbush? Nah; that's like saying Coney Island av. is the borderline between Brighton Beach & Manhattan Beach.....

I have to concur with whatever consensus says that Nostrand is the border between Flatbush & E. Flatbush..... Usually, the disagreement between folks in this neighborhood as to what the western border is, is with either Rogers or Nostrand....

I don’t see your analogy with Brighton and Manhattan Beach. Part of my rationale is that the portion east of New York Avenue was built later and Lincoln Road, Parkside Avenue, and Martense Street all end at New York Avenue. When I was a kid, my father told me NY Avenue was the border, and it seemed to make sense. 

26 minutes ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

The official neighborhood start at E 98 and Linden going north to East New York Av running down Empire, West to Nostrand, south to Av D, Back East to Linden & E 98.

My only disagreement is I would say the western boundary is NY Ave not Nostrand. 

3 hours ago, JAzumah said:

Near the Bermuda Triangle of Kings Highway, Remsen Avenue, and Linden Boulevard.

I think that the eastern edge of East Flatbush is basically Remsen Avenue, but if you want to include that Popeyes at Church Av & E 92 St in the neighborhood, I'll take it.

East Flatbush extends to East 98 Street north of Linden.

29 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I think it’s a generational thing with the neighborhood names. Ask BrooklynBus where we went to school . PS 268 and Winthrop JHS were considered East Flatbush although the Post Office was Rugby. Wingate High School was in East Flatbush although it was also called “Pigtown” as a derogatory name. I lived in Flatbush , now called Prospect-Lefferts by the later residents. Our borders were the west side of New York Avenue to Flatbush Avenue and also included the east side of Ocean Avenue across from Prospect Park and Empire Boulevard down past Erasmus Hall and included 2 post offices, Lefferts on Empire and Nostrand and Flatbush station on Church and Bedford. Kings County and Downstate were considered Flatbush in my day. Your Glenwood Houses comment illustrated the problem directly. Zip code (post office) or what ? We also need something else that makes sense. My aunt lived on Marion Street at Rockaway Avenue, I lived on Vermont and Flatlands, and my supervisor lived in Starrett when it was new. We all had the same post office back then, 11207, East New York station at Pennsylvania and Atlantic. Damn sure wasn’t the same neighborhood as the post office name. On that end we used the Canarsie office on Flatlands. I had relatives in Queens back then and their neighborhood names were just as mysterious as my Brooklyn ones. Try Google Maps, Apple Maps or Bing on a lark and compare the results. Just my experience. Carry on.

Pigtown was not a derogatory name. It just referred to the number of Pig farms in the area. After WWII when much of the area was developed, Pigtown was not a good selling name. So the real estate agents renamed the area Dodgertown. When I asked my elementary schoolmates where they lived, many said Dodgertown. 
 

But when the Dodgers left in 1957, the name Dodgertown soon faded and the western half just became part of East Flatbush and the Eastern part was renamed Wingate for the newly built high school in 1954. 

1 hour ago, Q43LTD said:

Didn't the B8 have a part time branch to the Brooklyn Terminal Market until 95? IIRC, the Brooklyn bus map labeled the area as East Flatbush. Remsen Village and Paerdegat Basin are subsections of Canarsie I suppose?

When it was extended to Brookdale (whenever that was) I believe service to E 83 Street was discontinued. I don’t remember any branch. 

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

It has everything to do with whether a passenger has to sit or stand, IF that passenger would have had a seat on the missing trip. If the schedule calls for six trips in a given hour and only four are covered, then lots of people who would have sat will now have to stand. That's basic logic.

But sitting or standing is less important than having to wait an extra 20 minutes for a bus. Sitting or standing depends on many factors, among them how frequent is the turnover. If it’s frequent, the amount if time you are standing is much less than if there is little turnover. 

12 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

When I hear comments like this I ask, "Are they complaining that they have to let a bus pass by because they can't fit on it or are they complaining they have to stand".  Just like the subways, you are paying for a ride and not necessarily a seat!

I don’t know why you say that. When I think of scheduled runs not covered, I think of waiting 40 minutes for a bus instead of the scheduled 20 minutes, as often happens with the B1. 

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

Is the reason the rush hour and off-peak ridership on both of those routes so disproportional because they primarily serve residential areas?

It’s because the routes are primarily subway feeders.

56 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Is that with all scheduled service covered? Or are there open runs on both routes?

I wouldn’t know.

15 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

What are the 's ridership levels? Can existing service accommodate both current  ridership and current ridership? Or would they need to add at least a few trips at certain times of day?

According to some who attended the MTA’s virtual meetings and other comments, the B100 and B2 are already overcrowded during rush hours and both need additional service. 

4 hours ago, Ex696 said:

It is, the problem is the 's frequency is not being increased despite being offered as an alternative.

It also makes very few stops. 

1 hour ago, limitednyc said:

So why don't you lobby the mayor's office  for direct ferry service.  U would have better off.

Because ferry service does nothing for Rockaway subway commuters since the ferry would not stop near the Sheepshead Bay Station and Rockaway already has ferry service. I also believe the Sheepshead Bay community opposes ferry service to Manhattan. I am not sure about service to the Rockaways where there only would only be  demand on summer weekends. 

5 hours ago, Ex696 said:

So the  would be streamlined onto Fort Hamilton Parkway and a different route would take over the 13th Avenue/14th Avenue portion of the route?

I addressed this also in my proposal. The B64 would use 92 Street to access the 95 St station or possibly extended to SI. The Bay Ridge Avenue portion could either be hooked up with a new 65 St route that would only stop at even numbered avenues for transfers or be connected in sone form with all or part of the old B23. However, all this involves additional mileage, perfectly justified for a growing borough, but instead the MTA wants to shrink bus service and force more people onto the subway. 

20 hours ago, Fire Mountain said:

And a route between Rockaway Park and Sheepshead Bay might work, but you got a reason?

It is a 20 minute car ride but a 90 minute to two hour bus trip requiring three buses and two fares for most. In the 1960s, there was a ferry for 25 cents that made the trip. There definitely is demand. If it operated along the Belt Parkway shoulders as I suggested to Sheepshead Bay Station with free parking in Riis Park, it would serve a dual purpose, for commuters and for recreation. 

I didn’t have any plans for it to go further. The route would be long enough, although I would shorten the southern end to 86 St and 4th Ave except for school specials to Ft Hamilton HS. And replace the Shore Road portion with a B9 extension.

9 hours ago, Ex696 said:

 

What about the Kingsbrook Jewish Hospital one block north? I saw you propose merging it with the Saratoga/Thomas S. Boyland segment of the . What will merging those two routes accomplish for you?

Yes, Kingsbrook is important, also the psychiatric center and Winthrop School, but when an east west route ends it needs to connect with another east west route if possible for those who need to travel further. Similar for north south routes. That’s what I really meant by ending in the middle of nowhere. I believe the Saratoga, Hopkinson route is important enough to retain, but can’t succeed on its own. Tying the B16 to that route allows connections to other east west routes like the B14 and B15.

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

In this area of Brooklyn I'm in, yeah, the B7 is essentially a school bus... I mean, even as a kid, being a cartophile & as interested in the inner workings of bus networks, I could never understand why there'd never be virtually anyone xferring b/w B7's & B46's at Utica/Kings Hwy.... 30+ years later, still like that to this day... The Target they opened up over there back in 2021 hasn't done much of anything for the B7....

Believe me, I could understand someone wanting to eliminate the B7.... When some people around these parts were on that, extend the B7 to Ridgewood bit back then, I was on that, the B7 should be eliminated bit..... Maybe biased, but the more I grew to detest the B47 (and miss the old B78), the more I started thinking about how the B7 could be made more useful... However long ago it was, that was when I came up with the idea to preserve the upper-third of the route, to have it supplant the Paerdegat branch of the B17.... The current B7 as a whole, simply isn't vital to the network...

Yet the MTA isn’t smart enough to see that it’s not vital, and instead propose to eliminate vital routes. 
 

The only thing I disagree with you on is the old B78. I like the combination with the B40 which I first suggested back in my 1973 masters thesis. 

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

so the  will just continue to stagnate in ridership and not grow...what about the? Is ending it at Clarkson/Utica a stub?

Clarkson Utica is the wrong place to end it. It is in the middle of nowhere. I lived two blocks from there for my first 25 years, so I am intimately familiar with the neighborhood. 

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Short of sabotaging the routes that operate proximate to it? Well nothing, being the part of Kings Highway it serves is as residential as it is... The route simply isn't one of these routes that transports hordes of residents to a central, or otherwise highly in-demand location (like, the Downtown Brooklyn - Ridgewood routes for example).... Its largest ridership generator is easily the commercial part of Kings Hwy. around the Brighton line... Saratoga I'd say is right behind it....

It's sad when you have a route that's on a serious decline like the B2 has been over the past couple decades (that also has Kings Highway around the Brighton line being its largest ridership generator) having more of an importance to the communities it serves, over that of a route that racks up about 3x the mileage per trip.... The route {B7} for too many people is either an afterthought, or *just another bus*.....

It's one thing if you're asking how can the B7 be improved, but you're asking what can be done to improve the conditions plaguing it....

I wasn’t sure if the proposal to extend the B7 northward was a good idea or not, so I am glad you answered the question with a no. That makes my proposal for the B16 more relevant. Not to end it at Utica Ave as the MTA proposed, it to extend it past E98 St and hook it up with the Saratoga portion of the B7, eliminating the rest of the route south of Clarkson Avenue, except for school specials to the old Tilden High School. That actually might be a zero cost proposal or a net savings to be applied elsewhere. 

10 hours ago, Lex said:

If you still can't figure it out after putting the two together like this, I don't know what to tell you.

My problem wasn’t the question Ex696 asked, it was your irrelevant comment regarding Ocean Avenue which you still haven’t explained.

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Where are your glasses?

Ex696 stated:”There aren't enough places along the route that people want to go for people to use it more? What about the proposed extension to Forest Avenue 

? Any possibility demand along the B7 will grow because of it?”

And you answered: “The fact of the matter is, the borderline stroad east of Ocean Avenue is highly residential, unlike the more mixed portion west of Ocean Avenue.”
 

So I asked how is your comment relevant? 

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Which one?

Your comment about Ocean Avenue isn’t relevant to the B7.

57 minutes ago, Lex said:

The fact of the matter is, the borderline stroad east of Ocean Avenue is highly residential, unlike the more mixed portion west of Ocean Avenue.

What does your response have to do with the question being asked?

48 minutes ago, Nitro said:

I don't disagree with all of your bus changes. All you have to do is increase the frequencies of the 7 by using buses from ENY and Flatbush Depots. The B7 is there to alleviate loads from the 46 and the 47. I would cut the B7s route to Bed Stuy and let the 7 terminate at Eastern Parkway and extend the route to Bensonhurst then call it a day.

I doubt it that anyone uses the B7 because of overcrowding on the B46 or B47. I don’t see the demand for increased frequencies either. 

54 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Aren't you still cutting vital access to Flatlands and East Flatbush again you don't want service cuts though you would cut a vital route anyway.

I don’t see it as a vital link since the B50 was first introduced. All B7 trips can be made with other routes. It’s the only route I am cutting with all my proposals as opposed to the MTA who is proposing to eliminate many vital routes. I would rather use the buses to fill service gaps like between Utica and Nostrand Avenues where walking distances are great.