Art Vandelay

The plan is 9 out of 17 to be precise*

*(day to day use may vary)

The C is assigned 5 sets of R160s and 12 sets of R32s. If you are seeing more R32s than R160s, it does not mean the system is shutting down, nor does it mean that R160s have head colds, nor does it mean that they are protesting their assignment to the C. It means things are running as they are intended to run. 

R160 and R179 will be less similar than an R142 and an R142A, which aren't very similar to begin with. The 5 car R179s are near certain to end up on the A. 

R160's can handle being on entirely underground lines with no problem. (They have run on the E R and V without problem,) 

Most of the current R32s out of 207 were from Pitkin. Some are ex Jamaica cars. 

Although they did go to Jamaica and some went to Coney Island for 2008-2010. 

This is fairly OT, but I wonder if 207th is as tired of the 32's as ENY is with those rusty 42's. ENY also has some 32's, so they may be even more tired than 207th lol.

 

 

 

It does mean something. It's an indictment of the R40 and R44, both of which were even less reliable than the R32. It's also an indictment of the  (MTA)'s decision to get rid of the R38's. If not for those factors, it would be these newer trains running instead of the R32's.

The R38 R40s and R44s were all more reliable than the R32. The retirement order was based largely on time since last SMS, as all cars R32-R42 were intended to be retired. Technologically speaking, very little of the R32-R46 cars is older than an R62A. 

Yeah I know they are from 1988-90 that's was when they were overhauled. I know for a fact that the R38 were not safe to run and had many structural problems just like the R44's. The other day I was on a no A/C R32 on the and . I transferred to the and of course I catch the car that had no A/C lucky the next train had working A/C so it wasn't that bad.

You know for a fact incorrectly. The 38s were in substantially better shape than the R40s and R42s. 

What you stated is not actually correct. The R143s did not come with CBTC. They were later retrofitted with it, and it has been upgraded  since. The 64 lowest numbered R160s have also been outfitted with CBTC since delivery. What is happening now is another upgrade, which will need to be done on the 212 R143s which have CBTC, as well as the 64 R160s with CBTC. 

You are correct that SMS is generally done by fleet. However, within each fleet, one shop will generally be worked on, and once that shop's fleet is done, they will move onto the next. 

This is a CBTC upgrade, for all L consists.
From what I have seen, the R160s going through SMS work are from Jamaica, not ENY.

As most of the L train is run with R143s, I am puzzled as to why people are calling this an R160 upgrade. 

With a reactivated W there would be no room to turn any R trains at Whitehall. I don't see why R to Chambers would be useful with such a plan- Broadway has by far more demand for service, if any more R trains were to run, they would run up Broadway. Connecting the Nassau line to the bridge would also be relatively useless. The Nassau line from Chambers on south has substantially less demand than the Broadway line from Canal north. Dekalb likely constrains Broadway-Bridge express service as it is, none of that capacity can be afforded to Nassau services. Why would a sea beach express be of any use? It skips all the stops!

The N and Q combined adequately serve Astoria. The N and Q have roughly the same headways, so it really does not matter which is sent up 2nd Avenue. When the Q is sent up 2nd Avenue, all ~10 peak trains per hour of it will be needed on 2nd Avenue. The Astoria line will still need ~20 trains per hour during the peak period. Will the N be doubled? No. at ~30 trains per hour, the express tracks would be overserved, while at under 10 trains per hour the local tracks would be severely underserved. Dekalb couldn't handle ~30 TPH coming in on the H tracks. 

 

One thing which keeps on entertaining me is this idea of parts being discontinued being a reason for retirement/rebuilding/builder not being around/etc

Lots of parts from the R160 have been discontinued. A number of R32 parts are still available. "parts" is meaningless. NYCT manufactures many of their own parts. NYCT has ordered replacements for parts from competitors, even when the original product is still available. During GOH the parent companies of each car builder of a GOH'ed class (with the exception of Pullman) were still around.  

Thank you AV. Case in point, the 160 order originally included strip maps as well. Obviously that would only work if the cars were relegated to the A/C or the N/W lines. Since that's not the case and the cars are assigned to yards that serve multiple lines with very different routes, strip maps on the 160s would be worst than useless. Not so with the 188s seeing as they're likely going to stay on Flushing for quite some time.

I am not sure that such is the case. The first glimpse I got of R160 signage design (which I believe was in 2003, possibly 2004) It was nearly identical to the FIND of today. Of course, things could have changed earlier, but I believe signage was settled fairly early on. 

That said, your points are all certainly correct.

So? Nothing is perfect. Just because something is X years old, doesn't mean problems can be completely fixed. Not to mention that these things are in the toughest subway system on the planet. Most of these computers are running 24/7 while hitting bumps, curves, heat, cold,  rain, sleet, snow. All kinds of environments. Parts are flexing and contracting. Shaken and stirred. I bet you if your computer went through that treatment, it'd be finished. Cut the tech some slack. At least it works and does what it's supposed to do.

 

Every machine is glitch prone. You can only do so much. But when you are going through everything I stated above, glitches can be more likely. So again, cut the tech some slack. Strip maps have glitches too. Aaaaand you gotta worry about lights going out as well.

The problem with using "tech" for the sake of using tech is that it is often less reliable than a simpler solution. Especially a simpler solution capable of providing clearer information. A stripmap is far superior to a find in nearly every way. Of course, it is not a viable solution for cars which are not reliably on one line, but with a dedicated fleet, there is no purpose to installing a find.  

Because FINDs are substantially more complicated. Simple machines have far fewer glitches. As a simple machine can do the same job as a more complicated machine, why not use the simple machine?

In this case, a stripmap can do the same job, better, cheaper, and more reliably. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Not to pick on anyone, but I find it odd that a TTC fan would have a problem with natural light in an underground station. Toronto does such very well in a few locations!

They have been a pair since shortly after GOH.  

Those numbers dont lie indeed. But DOS sees the C not needing full length sets. And I agree. 

Some may say "everytime i see the C during rush, Its packed". My question to them would be "Do you see every car crowded?" Because in all the years, ive never seen it consistently enough to warrant 10-car trains. Why constantly wear out the motors, brakes and doors of 10 cars each set when b is good enough. Thats where the logistics make sense. Penny-pinching, as it could be described, may help reduce fare-hikes. Something we all(well, not me anymore) complain about.

 

I love how heads use the argument of the Summer Swaps as a reason to make the C full length but all it shows is those forgetting WHY those swaps happened in the first place.

I am sorry- I was being unclear- 

What I meant was: the numbers work out for the R32 replacing the R42 at ENY if such a need should arise. There are enough R32s for that. 

It makes no sense whatsoever to extend the R32 to full length just to shorten it again sometime in the next 5 years. 

The line will open all at once. The only benefit before full opening will be a newly renovated 63/Lex with a new exit.  

once the R32 SMS is done, 207th isnt going to need all 222 R32s anymore, they only need a maximum of 180-190 cars since the C requires 144 R32s,and if on the A the same amount for the summer, leaving 30-40 R32s free, if the TA wants to, those 48 oddball R42s can retire at anytime, its all about cutting costs and having one 60 foot SMEE car class instead of 2, the R42s arent being maintained as much, if they were to stay they would need work,simple as that, all of the R32s should be done with SMS by march

Say what you will about what sources are reliable and such, but the numbers behind this post work out. I don't see why people have such an issue with this...

In fact, numbers are often changed after construction- Most R40s were even renumbered after delivery. 

The cars not only have the same type of motors, they in fact have the same EXACT motors. 

It is the same system.

They are empty on the list you are looking at.

They are not empty in the sense that there is equipment that was purchased with money under said contracts. The R211 was numbered R211 because the last thing which required an R number was numbered R210. The R210 was numbered R210 because the prior order was R209. I believe the reason why R numbers increase faster is that everything above a certain amount is required to go through the bidding process. As inflation occurs, more contracts are above that threshold.

CBTC is not installed anywhere outside of the Canarsie line (BMT Q). Some work has been done on the Corona line (IRT C) too. Not Queens (IND D) yet, although it will be next outside of the Culver test track (IND B).