Kacie Jane

The ® is not running 24/7. The map posted upthread is (stupidly) based on normal, non-late night service. Note how it also shows the © along 8th Avenue (which to answer your question Shortline, is also running express to make room for the ).

® trains have already used that connection many times in the past. Nothing new.

 

If you want, you could of course stand at 57 St and wait for the first train that says 'This is a Queens bound Q train via the F line'.

Not to mention the during the 1995 Manhattan Bridge closure, and the yellow in 1998.

First off, still, I would single track it.

Also, regarding the cancelation you have to provide service to every station, along the route of the given the current lines. So extennding the ( from 145th St to Norwood would cover that section while the is running. Like that.

You can't single-track for that long a distance for several reasons, not least of which being that I highly doubt signalling and equipment makes it physically possible.

But why is the cancelled? Look at some of the scenarios other people have posted. "The D is cancelled" is an answer, not a question. There's nothing that would cause the MTA to just cancel the D if all the tracks and stations were still fully operational.

I would probably just send the up through the downtown side, even with the delays.

 

NEXT

 

The gets canceled.

There aren't any switches nearby that would allow uptown trains to access the downtown track. trains would have to single-track from south of Wall Street; trains from South Ferry. Once you had all the uptown trains on Track 2 (the downtown express track), you couldn't switch them back until after 34th Street.

(Not to mention that I doubt the line is setup for that much wrong-railing.)

Also, I concur with NX Express that your scenario doesn't make sense. Why is it cancelled? What part of the line is affected? What prevents me from just saying, "Create a new Y train from 205 Street to Coney Island via CPW/6 Av Express, 4th Av Express, and the West End Line" (or in other words, just rename the D something silly like the Y, or the greek letter pi, or the smiley face train)?

Another option, with the to 2 Av:

 

Local:

Express: (

Certainly possible, but I think the consensus here is that for reasons I don't understand, the MTA avoids using the switches north of W 4th at all costs.

Plus, the would need to move to the local tracks at some point before the leaves anyway in order to access the Rutgers St. Tunnels.

( local 34-W4.

*rolls eyes* Really?

Most likely:

end early.

(and ) via 6th Avenue local; to 2nd Avenue.

I know that my 1st FASTRACK prediction was a little bit wrong, and my second one might be the same, so here is the one that will be affecting the Train lines between 59th St-Columbus Circle or 5th Av-53rd St and W 4th St-Washington Square in 3 different ways from 10:00 PM Monday March 12th-5:00 AM Friday March 16th:...

Do we know where the boundaries of the Fastrack are going to be yet? I realize the 6th Avenue one ended at West 4th, so that may be a good indication, but I would still be surprised if the 8th Avenue one didn't go all the way to Jay.

Sure... it's a relatively easy one I think.

Due to some sort of malfunction -- I'm not an engineer -- the switches south of Columbus Circle are impassible. Trains from Upper Manhattan/The Bronx can terminate at 59th, and the from 53rd Street is unaffected, but trains from Central Park West cannot access Eighth OR Sixth Avenue.

That could definitely work. Failure on my part not to think of turning the at Chambers. And I like your full-length orange .

Here's my solution.

rerouted via the between West 4th and Jay. Express from 168th to 59th ONLY.

( runs 24/7 from 168th Street to Coney Island (Brighton local).

suspended.

normal.

runs to 34th Street only. (runs on express tracks on 8th Avenue)

normal.

(Mx) rerouted to 95th/Bay Ridge.

runs in two sections: Astoria to Herald Square, and Whitehall Street to Coney Island.

suspended.

suspended.

If the problems only at Canal, why are you running everything via 6th Avenue? I mean, you'd still have the same problem with capacity, but there's no reason to switch at 59th instead of West 4th.

And before I make another stupid mistake before I try to answer, I'm assuming both levels of Canal are closed?

regular service.

( suspended.

168 St-World Trade Center via CPW/8 Av local

205 St-Coney Island via CPW/8 Av local, Houston Street, Culver line.

Jamaica Center-Euclid Avenue via 53rd Street/8 Av Express, Fulton local.

One train runs from 179th to Church Avenue via Crosstown, the other is suspended, doesn't really matter what you call it.

(Mx) Metropolitan to Coney Island (Sea Beach)

shuttle from Astoria to Times Square.

Whitehall Street to Coney Island (Brighton local)

shuttle from 36th to 95th.

(ETA: I realized I also forgot you could turn trains from Brooklyn at West 4th. It may make more sense to run the to West 4th and the up to Whitehall, but I'm not really sure how much difference it would actually make.)

Jesus Christ. I don't know how I missed that. The 8th Avenue thing makes a lot more sense now.

NEXT

 

34 St - Herald Sq is closed. No trains can pass, stop, or terminate. Note that 6 Av trains cannot use the switches between 34 and 42 St.

 

Hint: get maximum use out of the 8 Av line.

Here's my best effort on this one. However, I'm not sure what the 8th Avenue line has to do with it, since as you just said/implied, 8th Avenue only has access to the Culver line -- or in a pinch, Jamaica/Myrtle -- which doesn't help the Broadway Line terribly much.

rerouted to 53rd Street.

(Mx) rerouted to Nassau Street, Montague Tunnel, 4th Avenue Local to Bay Ridge.

runs from Astoria to Times Square only.

suspended, replaced by 24/7 B service.

rerouted via 63rd Street, 6th Avenue express, 4th Avenue Express/Sea Beach.

normal service, but slightly reduced to make room for additional (® trains.

extended to 71st/Continental to replace the (and the at Queens Plaza).

Theoretically, one could fit a combo like the onto one track if absolutely necessary with a total of 30 tph. What matters is the tph (6, 8, 8, 8 in the example above), not the number of services.

 

As for my solution:

TPH RT CHANGE

10 No trains between 34 St - Penn Sta and Chambers St (middle track relay). Trains run local north of 34 St.

08 ( Normal service.

06 No trains between 168 St and Chambers St.

08 Normal service.

08 (E)1 Jamaica Center to Canal St or Whitehall St via 63rd and Broadway.

08 (E)2 Jamaica Center to Lefferts Bl / The Rockaways. Via the to W4, then the .

12 Service slightly reduced (every 4 mins to every 5) to accommodate other services.

08 Normal service.

 

Advantages:

No switching on 6 Av

No exotic reroutes

The 6 Av Local, with the (E)1, , and , has 28 tph.

There's this mythical number of 30 tph a lot of people have in their heads, but I think it's important to realize that just because one section of track is capable of handling 30 tph doesn't mean every section of track in the entire system is capable of doing so.

I'm not saying that running the together the way you have it is impossible, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.

One question I do have though, is that the way I'm reading it, you have the all going on the Fulton line. Are all of them necessary?

Also, I'd question your ability to turn both the and at Chambers. Single tracks like that generally aren't meant really meant to turn trains, although they're more than capable of doing so. The ran far fewer than that combined 16 tph, and still had significant delays trying to turn at Whitehall with a similar setup.

NEXT

 

8 Av is closed at 23 St. No trains may pass or stop.

What's interesting is that this is basically the 8th Avenue Fastrack, and there was a bit of bickering on the Fastrack thread as to how many trains you could wedge onto the 6th Avenue local tracks. Since presumably this is a full-time closure, and we're not talking late-night headways, that number is certainly no more than three in this situation.

I'm going to offer two different solutions.

Serious:

runs via 6th Avenue from 59th to West 4th, local on entire route.

(© suspended.

normal.

Jamaica Center to 34th Street. Frequency is reduced, trains are lent to instead.

normal, plus the extra trains borrowed from the . (Some of the extra trains would probably short turn at Church Avenue.)

kicked off 6th Avenue. Either it runs as a shuttle to Myrtle, or the brown (Mx) comes back to Chambers.

Foamy, but serious in the sense that it saves on some switching at 6th/34th, plus it provides full service on QBL since it doesn't give the M the boot:

suspended.

( rerouted to 207th Street. The and would switch roles on the Brighton Line for the duration of the closure, with the B running local to CI 24/7, and the Q express to Brighton Beach suspended late nights (but not weekends).

normal.

same as above.

same as above.

normal route from 71st/Forest Hills to West 4th, then via the local to the Rockaways. A second (Mx) would serve the Myrtle Line as above.

Run in 2 Sections: Between Coney Island and Cortlandt St. And 14th St. - USQ and Astoria.

 

Reduced (Q)/® service, runs both lines via the then on the to Forest Hills - 71st Ave.

 

 

 

 

runs via the 6th Ave. from W4 to 59th St.

 

runs in 2 sections: Btwn Euclid and 14th and btwn 34th - Penn and 145th.

 

runs from 34th - Penn to Jamaica ONLY!

No. Cortlandt Street and Union Square on the and 14th Street on the all lack the switches required to turn trains.

No one posted this as a scenario, but I wanted to answer what I would have done for the 6th Avenue Fastrack. A lot of it is based on what the MTA is actually doing, but I tweaked some things. For instance, why does the have to stop in Queensbridge instead of continuing to the QBL? Why do the and both have to run via 53rd and 8th Avenue where they're basically clones of each other?

service would end early as in the current plan, although see below where I mention the possiblity of an extended .

as is, express south of 59th to make room for the and to reduce switching delays at W4th and Chambers.

runs from 205th to Coney Island, via 8th Avenue local to West 4th Street, then via the line to Coney Island. The West End line could be served as is (the D to Whitehall or 36th, possibly signed as an to reduce confusion), or possibly by an extended or (Mx).

regular service.

suspended, replaced by .

runs to Queensbridge as in the MTA's plan, then extended all the way via the F to 179th Street.

Also, that area 42-6Av is part of the GO area worked on (covers from W4-47th), so obviously there would be no service there.

My assumption was that they meant 42nd on the Broadway line.

The is 8Av local to W4th, then downstairs where it will terminate at 2Av. Remember by this time the © would have stopped running. You will have the all on 8Av from 42-W4 in both directions. goes back on 6Av afterwards (its not shown to confuse people into thinking it can get to Grand St from W4) to terminate at 2Av, along with the going back to its normal route. There will be a few still on the express track on 8Av after 10pm.

Not just a few ... the will be running express all night. Similarly, the last few © run express after 10 south of 59th.

North of 59th:

Express: Local: ©

South of 59th:

Express: © Local:

I think at this point, it seems like it's going to take a minor miracle to get even Phase II built. We're probably at minimum 10 years from the line being open to 125th Street. I would imagine that it would probably about a decade or two beyond that before a line in the Bronx were even properly considered, much less funded and built.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for the to end at Lexington so that customers can have a convenient transfer. Then decades down the line, if a new Bronx line is built, the can split off at 116th and continue northward.

Dumb question: How come the Broadway line is unaffected by this fast track?

Perhaps they just haven't firmed up and announced dates for it yet?

And also for most likely a maximum of 90 minutes, and those frequencies will drop rather quickly once you get to 11:00 PM I believe.

 

It's not like this would be the case at all times or even all night.

I freely admit that I could be totally wrong and totally underestimating the capabilities of the subway system. I'm not an engineer, and the last time I lived in the Tri-State Area was 2004. I could easily count the number of times I've ridden the subway since then on my fingers.

But even if it's possible, it would still be extremely difficult, and I don't see the point of suddenly turning that section of 6th Avenue into the busiest line in the system, when it would be so much easier to simply end a couple of lines 1-2 hours earlier.

Besides, I think there's precedent for this. Whenever there's construction on the or , IIRC, they've always cancelled the © rather than trying to squeeze the © onto the same pair of tracks. (There have been times recently when the C went to 2nd Avenue, but that was when there was only construction on the Culver and the F went to Euclid. I don't think all 3 were ever on the same tracks.)

Yes, I read your previous post. If they're not evenly spaced, a train will have to wait at W4 Street. It's not like trains can't stop.

 

And if trains can run at 30 tph ( ), they most likely can run at 30.5. And with the switches issue, it somehow works at Rogers Junction and in the Bronx!

 

If even that is not possible, only one line needs to end service early, like the for example. The © can keep running until whenever.

Except it doesn't work at Rogers Junction, that's why there are massive delays. It's a necessary evil at Rogers Junction in order to get people where they need to go during peak hours. Here, there's a simple solution... cut the tph by a third because you don't need 30 tph going through there at 10PM, and everyone still gets where they need to go on a much smoother moving system.

The people in Brooklyn who have to sit on a local train two hours earlier than they normally would will just have to deal with it the same way the people on 8th Avenue who have to walk an extra block or two do. That's the way G.O.'s work.

And the reason it works on the (or the along QBL) is because the switches between those lines are miles apart. So they can merge together at 149th (or in Jamaica), "unbunch" if necessary over the course of their run together, and then split apart at the other end by which time they'll be properly separated with enough time to operate the switches. Trying to merge/split lines on either end of a single station is an entirely different animal, and would be an unmitigated disaster.

At 10PM frequencies:

7.5 tph

© 5

6

6

6

 

So the math is that it ends up being 30.5 tph. Not bad. It could work for one stop.

So I take it you didn't read my last post then?

The fact that it's only for one stop is exactly why it wouldn't work. (Well, that and the fact that it's just clinically insane.) 30 trains an hour is a train every 2 minutes (if the trains are evenly spaced, which they're not, especially if you're talking about five different lines now). 120 seconds isn't nearly enough time between trains if you have to move the switches between every train.