RandomRider0101

5 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

East New York can’t even store the cars it already has. There’s at least 5-6 J’s parked in various corners every night.

again, the relocation of those cars is predicated on the expansion of 207’s inspection barn to hold full length trains, not the arrival of new equipment.

Thanks for clarifying the situation with ENY. Would it be more feasible to move the to Pitkin while using 207th for the ? Or would they be better off just ordering 8 car R211s if they decide to keep the 480 ft long?

4 hours ago, MJHmarc said:

Everyone seems to forget that this is the reason why the C does not use 10 cars. Also the MTA cares more about how many trains can they put into service vs a spare factor. 

See response above.

16 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The C can wait until option 1 to go full length. 

The A and C need to be 100% NTTs before 8th Avenue CBTC is live?

What's ENY going to do with the 8 car r179's displaced from 207?? Keep them idle??

Willie B can only handle a certain number of trains per hour.

Three words: higher spare factor.

If the R179s currently at 207th do go to ENY in the future, I don't think they necessarily have to be used for extra service. I'm assuming ENY can fit 88-92 more cars. It would at least allow the R143s & R160s with Canarsie CBTC to be kept exclusively for the "L"; plus they are expected to add extra service to this line at some point.

3 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

On Friday I rode on the R211T.  From a passenger perspective I like the train.  I rode northbound from Chambers St. to 168 and southbound 168 to Hoyt Schermerhorn.   It ran nice, except for the hard stops made at the overwhelming majority of stations!   I can live with all the new "bells and whistles".  But from the perspective of operation, I have big issues.

I am going by the rules of NYCT.  I don't want to hear about Toronto or systems in Europe that have similar open gangways, because I don't know their rules for train operation, nor do I know if they have automatic tripping devices which would activate due to an obstruction on the roadbed not seen by the train operator till it's too late.  All I know are the rules for operation at NYCT as per the procedures described below . 

In the case of a BIE, he is required to fully inspect the train from the roadbed if it re-charges.  Debris or a body, they would have struck the automatic tripping device or a stop arm coming up underneath the train before it cleared, or maybe even if no cause is found (this would mean a problem with the train which the t/o would not be able to diagnose).  In case of no clearance areas, the t/o must check in between the cars.  There-in is the problem as his only entrance to the roadbed with the R211T is out the front (or rear 600' away) door. So instead, he has to go into the car body (while getting peppered with harassing and cussing passengers and he has no time to explain the process) and open a side door to climb down.  But suppose there are bench walls in the way on both sides (or some other obstruction) as in an under river tube? Now he can't check underneath the car/from between cars.  Multiply that by several other cars.  Now he moves the train and it goes BIE again because he couldn't carefully check under the whole train.  This is what we're up against as the T/O, Control Center and right up the line as we get into the decision makers.  Also, looking in between the cars from inside a station, you can't get down in between cars because there are no steps, plus there is some piece of hardware protruding preventing one from even reaching the roadbed from the platform.  Of course, the same is true if the train goes BIE in between stations and the t/o is walking the bench wall, he still can't get down in between cars from that way either.

Just wait for the first 12-9 they have with these cars and the body is somewhere under the train and they can't find the body because it's SOMEWHERE!  Police and Fire Department will call NYCT on the carpet about these cars.  Enjoy them while you can, because sometime in 2024 they will be permanently relegated to the Rockaway Shuttle. 

Put that into your vaping pipes and smoke it! 

 

 

Welp, so much for the gangway idea.

I started growing doubtful the more I learned about these cars, but I was still kinda holding onto hope that some kind of alterations could be made to the sets to make them actually work here at NYCT.

I hope they can just convert the gangway sets into standard sets. That way, they won't have the trouble of having to keep these cars isolated to a shuttle route.

On 2/16/2024 at 12:29 AM, Cait Sith said:

6216-6218 are in service. Spotted them today on the A. Didn't peep what the other two cars were coupled with it, but those were in service with it as well.

23 hours ago, BenTheMiner said:

Other married pair should be 6228 and 6230

I can confirm. Just got off the train myself.

4 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Sorry. Was typing fast as I could, and it was my first time seeing that set in service. Hopefully the R211s keep coming in at this rate, so we can see the R46s shifted

Yeah I agree. I rode the R211s for the 1st time last week & it was definitely an exciting experience, especially with the R211Ts. It was pretty surreal seeing open gangways in action for the first time. I really hope there is a way to make open gangways work in NYCT so that this can become the standard moving forward.

2 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

4144-4149/4165-4169 now on the Lefferts Blvd  train at 125 St.

That would be 4145, and this train was reported 2 days ago on the last page.

I'm assuming that's the plan. Once all the R211As return to service, then they can focus on the R211Ts next for the 30 day passenger test. 

7 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

A sizable group of R32s were still getting inspections until 2021, They were in storage after they ran on the / when the R179s re-entered service. They kept them in storage and continued to inspect the cars just in case the R179s crapped the bed again or for any other emergency. They also restored full and service in 2021 a few months before they decided to retire them. The main reason why they weren't needed was because of the crew shortage and covid unless an emergency happened again like what happened to the R179s if that happened again. The R211s played a big role when they touched the property because at that time projected the cars to start running in passenger service in 2022 (a year after they were delivered) so it made sense to kill them off and retire them rather than to keep inspecting them and training new hires on them. The First 7-8 sets of the Base Order R211s are R32 replacements anyway ( the ones that weren't replaced by the R179s that were supposed to stay in service until 2022 in which they did, they just sat for a year) so it made sense.

 

If you take the R32s out of the picture, The fact still stands that the got too confident in these cars because it's Kawasaki and made some goofball choices and mistakes. Anyone with a brain would know these cars were going to have issues from the jump. The plant was closed for a few months because of covid and people kept leaving the plant for better paying jobs, So they had to keep training new hires at the plant which could lead into QC issues. Also The should have tested the 2nd set (which is the first non-polit set) with the newly designed trucks. This way they could have spotted the issue early way early on. Plus you have to factor in that parts for these trains come from all over the globe so some parts might take longer to ship vs others. which makes me believe that this might be why the sets are slowly coming back into service. Option II is going to be interesting because the price tag for those cars might be more expensive than the base and Option I due to the yen dropping in value.  

Yeah that was not a smart move on Kawasaki's part. If they were gonna use different trucks for the R211s, they should've started with the pilot set. Or they should've just kept the R160 trucks like someone said before. Now this will be another issue for them to address, which means yet another delay on top of all the other delays. I do really hope they take their time so they can make all the proper & necessary fixes.

On 12/10/2023 at 12:26 AM, R32 3838 said:

Here's the thing, Nobody is saying the R32s are coming back are wanting them to comeback. All i stated is that got too overconfident in the R211s thinking they'll work out of the box hence not needing the R32s anymore. On top of that ridership was low compared to now so it made sense to retire the R32s on paper since they wouldn't need them. It kinda backfired and now the R46s they wanted to retire or set aside in storage, they have to use them due to the issues with the R211s.

 

 

But it seems too many people don't read well and jump to conclusions and get very aggressive without understanding what people are saying. Nobody wants to sit here and wait 20-30 mins for a train because they have no equipment to run since they are short. There were days where they had the available crew and they had no equipment since they were short on the line. back in 2021-2022. We know the crew shortage is bad but having a shortage of equipment is even more bad. It's been going on for years and it's getting tiring.

 

It's weird that they have been very tight lipped when it comes to the R211s. But I'm not going to sit here and act like things are good when this damn agency wants to f**k with people lives because they can't budget right and want to do sneaky cuts while saying we want $15 from motorists because we suck at budgeting. 

 

2024 is going to be a shitshow and if they can't fix these issues by early next year, It's going to be a problem.

 

 

The decision to retire the R32s in late 2021-early 2022 had nothing to do with the MTA getting overly confident in the R211s. Those cars were never coming back into passenger service anyway, for reasons already explained by at least one of our honorary employees here (You seem to be overlooking that last bit) .

They only returned in summer 2020 due to the R179s being sidelined after the pull apart incident. Once the latter cars returned, the former cars were gradually sidelined over the next month or so, never seeing passenger service again until the weeks long final excursion which took place over a year later.

They were already OOS for 7-8 months prior to the first R211 hitting MTA property. Even though they were yet to be offically retired, it was already clear by then that MTA had made their final decision.

Just wanted to clear things up with you so that you know where I stand.

17 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Who are you to be telling members what they can and can not discuss here? For the past month all you’ve done is insert your unwanted two cents into any discussion remotely regarding the R211’s, which last I checked, the R32’s is apart of.

I'm not telling anyone to do anything. I'm just asking if we can move on from this. This convo has been had so many times before and it seems like it can never be settled. The cars in question are no longer in service and haven't been for years now. The R211s are replacing the R46s, so that should be the main focus here.

I've barely posted on these forums for the past few months. So your remark about my 'unwanted 2 cents' is not really accurate, but whatever I guess.

Can we please drop this topic and move on now? This is the R211 Discussion thread.

The R32s have been officially retired for almost 2 years now, and nothing anyone says on here or elsewhere is gonna change that fact. 

We all know that the R46s have issues, as will any car that's approaching 50 years of age. But the issues do not warrant an even older generation of cars being in service just to have them. They have enough cars to make service & that's all that matters right now.

Just like with any other subway car we've had, the R211s are currently having teething issues that will eventually be fixed. It's really not that big of a deal.

If you feel like made a mistake retiring the R32s when they did, that's fine; you're entitled to your opinion but it is just that, an opinion. Just because you feel that way doesn't make it fact.

Now for the sake of all parties involved, let's all keep calm & carry on.

2 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Yes, I meant 5 ten car trains.

Got it.

Now here's the thing : even if they kept the last 100 R32s in service today & the 63rd st. G.O. never took place at this time, MTA would still be in the same position they're in now. Except with R32s instead of R160s (the ones from ENY).

I rode an R46 Q train once last year, and it was a less than pleasant ride. I could see why ppl were complaining about them so much & saying they're the worst batch of cars. However, I've recently started riding them daily to work (save a couple R68As), and overall they actually weren't that bad (from a passenger's perspective). I'm guessing Coney shop forces have somewhat gotten used to these cars.

Of course the R46s are obviously not great cars, but ultimately they get the job done and will continue to do so until the R211 order is complete. I definitely feel for employees like @Kamen Rider who may or may not have to deal with this equipment on a daily basis. The rest of us will survive until these cars are all gone.

10 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you.

The R32's have single handily saved RTO multiple times since the R179's came onto property. The TA should have learned that scrapping cars early before all the replacements were in was a BAD idea. Let's not forget the R44 fiasco.

I do understand what your saying, I truly do, but keeping at least 50 ten car trains of R32's on strictly reserve status until all the R211's came in would make sure that passengers aren't getting affected from missing trains and longer headways. If the  wasn't suspended on QBL right now it would've been even worse with the car shortage.

They managed to run them with switching cabs for 50+ years. They can do it for another 9-10 months, or however long until all the R211's are delivered.

50 ten car trains = 500 cars. I'm assuming you meant 5 ten car trains, which would be 50 cars.

1 hour ago, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

I feel like there are different levels:

1. Cases like the , , or   where both services share the same everything, just one runs express.

2. Cases like  where a fleet is shared and internally the MTA sometimes combines them but they are somewhat distinct routes

3. Cases like the  or  where trains use similar/the same yards there is some overlap in the routes, and there is sometimes overlap in fleet during weekend service changes, delays and stuff.

 

 

The difference is that the & share a terminal while the & do not. So that comparison doesn't really work. A comparison btw the and the makes more sense since both sets of lines share a terminal and fleet.

Bottom line: the & are NOT a combined entity. They are separate lines with separate operations.

On 10/29/2023 at 2:13 AM, Jemorie said:

So? The  is basically a short-turn  making local stops while the full regular one runs express. If you rode the  at night, then basically you rode the .

Like the above poster said, both routes run alongside together or on the same tracks together in both Manhattan and Brooklyn. There isn’t anything wrong with treating them like a combined entity.

But there is also nothing wrong with acknowledging them as separate entities since they still are indeed, separate routes; despite the fact that the  route is fully confined within the route.

@Lawrence St's  assessment is correct since the R211s are currently only assigned to the (the cars are still in the early stages of their rollout).

7 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

207-  R179s

All the R46’s get serviced at Pitkin. 

240th  R62A’s

Livonia  (42nd street) R62/R62A’s

Westchester  R62A’s

Jerome  R142/R142A’s

Corona  R188’s

238th street  R142’s 

E.180th   R142’s

 

Okay, maybe I should reword my question. 

How many subway barns are unable to maintain separate parts for more than one fleet?

For example, Concourse only maintains one fleet and still is overwhelmed due to the barn shop's size being too small. I'm wondering if there are other barns in the system that have the same or similar limitations.

207th doesn't maintain 10 car trains since the shop building isn't long enough to hold full 600 ft trains. When R46s are used on the , they are only stored in the yard & are not maintained by the shop.

Is there another barn/shop in the system besides Concourse that's small to the point where they can only maintain one car type at a time? I'm mainly curious about Livonia.

1 hour ago, xD4nn said:

Stengel has been taking buses from JA before the construction started.

Maybe part of it has to do with those XD40s that Stengel has. You know they have the worst batch of them in the entire city. Or maybe some buses are just receiving SMS.

8 hours ago, slantfan4281 said:

Are they trying to keep the 46s off the shuttle because of the corrosion from the sea air above the bay? 

A more plausible reason would be 'cause these cars are on their way out soon.

20 hours ago, Transit Fans said:

So you saying that A line uses all there 27 and 28 sets of R46 on the weekday for revenue service. 

That assignment is from before the R211s entered service. Any R46 sets not in service are used for the spare factor.

On 10/10/2023 at 5:06 PM, xD4nn said:

JA is sending loans to Stengel because Stengel is short. Nothing to do with the water main replacement. QV has not sent anything to Stengel. This has been happening for the past few days.

How was stengel short when they still have a surplus of buses at the depot? Are the Novas still having teething issues or is it something else?

21 minutes ago, slantfan4281 said:

I mean aren't they trying to get rid of them ASAP? If the delivery schedule is supposed to be 20 cars per month and they get 10 before November, then they could get them all on property by the end of January? 

The 20 cars a month delivery schedule only applies to the R211As. The R211S delivery schedule is separate from the R211As, something like what @AZthefoamer mentioned in the post directly above yours.

Yes, the R211S will have to do a 30 day passenger test. That is standard procedure, SIR is not exempt from this.

The R211Ts will also be doing their 30 day test whenever the time comes. Both look to be starting soon (211S & 211T).

There was a post at the end of the previous page that was removed due to a certain word that was used. It's okay to have disagreements with each other, but let's just be mindful of the language we use on here. That's all.

On another note - I do look forward to seeing this order continue to make progress, and hopefully they eventually can work their way back to the original goal.

7 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

They don't understand that these lines increased in ridership overtime. Covid hit and created a big mess that we still in (crew availability) but ridership has grown back to what it is pre pandemic. People who don't even live here no more kept swearing up and down that ridership would never get back to pre covid levels and that everyone will be still doing remote work. 

 

Then you have the pushing for congestion pricing when they aren't even ready due to lack of equipment and crew availability. 

 

2024-2025 is going to be brutal.

Yeah, hopefully they can sort all of this out soon enough.

Sidenote: your response to that poster was removed from the R211 thread, and I'm sure you already know why. Just giving you a heads up to be mindful of what you say here. Besides that, I did agree with your post.