Wallyhorse

They might also just have to deal with a logjam of five different lines operating on the local track between West 4th and Broadway Lafayette ( (A)/©/ (E)/ (F)/ ) for the two hours or so (in some cases less than that) that some of those lines are running (The and © in this scenario would run express from 34th-West 4th and the ( would likely end early to accommodate this). It's not like this would be the case all night, it would only be at the start of the shutdown between 59th-CC and Jay Street-Metrotech.

Port Authority can definitely be a pain without the and stopping there and having to go to at least Broadway-7th Avenue (even if it's all underground) for the (1)/ (2)/ (3)/ (7)/ (S)/ (N)/ (Q)/® or even 6th Avenue to get the (A)/©/ or (/ (D)/ or . Not easy when you're handling heavy luggage, though the rolling luggage of today does make that considerably easier than it once was.

And there, the can simply go with the and then down 6th Avenue and the Rutgers tunnel to Jay Street while the can run via 6th Avenue to 2nd Avenue, so that isn't an issue, plus with a transfer to the (1)/ at 59th-CC and most of the other transfers that you would normally have from the anyway (including the at 14th/7th from the 14th/6th station), you likely won't have too much confusion like you did with this round of transfers, especially with the and covering most of the in Manhattan below 59th and (N)/® covering Metrotech.

That makes sense: Between the (N)/® at 59th-60th Street and again from 28th Street southward all the way to Atlantic-Pacific in Brooklyn (plus the at 14th, Canal, DeKalb and Atlantic-Pacific), the at 63rd and Broadway-Lafayette (which covers Bleecker) in Manhattan and Jay Street-Metrotech in Brooklyn (where you can switch to the (N)/®), the at 51st-53rd Street/Lexington and the and at Grand Central to the (1)/ at Times Square and also the at Park Place, Fulton and Wall Streets in Manhattan and Court, Nevins and Atlantic-Pacific in Brooklyn, just about every station on the (4)/ (5)/ affected by the shutdown was covered by another train and sometimes more than one train, including in some cases those that stopped where there is a transfer to the (4)/ (5)/ normally. As noted, the only people adversely effected were specifically those who needed the 33rd Street station and to a lesser degree 28th Street. I can see where except for those who specifically needed 28th or 33rd Street and maybe 23rd Street on the (4)/ (5)/ using buses to get to where they were going. Otherwise, it was not necessary.

Follow-up to my last post in this thread: Bedford-Nostrand (Transfer to ) and probably a revival of the old Sumner Avenue Myrtle Avenue El Station would be the two stations between the rebuilt upper level of Myrtle Avenue and what would be Franklin Avenue as a through station rather than a terminal on a new Myrtle-Brighton line that would have rebuilt 600' island platforms and two tracks along the existing Franklin Avenue Shuttle portion. This line (again, a "Black (V)" as I would do it) would eliminate both the Franklin Avenue and the weekend/overnight shuttle since this line would cover the entire portions of both routes before continuing from Prospect Park as a Brighton Local to Coney Island (with the becoming a full-time express to Brighton Beach and the ( joining the "Black (V)" as a Brighton Local to Coney Island on weekdays). I suspect this line would be quite popular as a second Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown line, especially with the numerous transfers. In addition, as noted it would also have connections to the Broadway-Brooklyn line (that I would actually have going both ways from Myrtle Avenue) mainly in case the needed to access the line in an emergency or because of a G.O. so it could go to Manhattan via the regular route.

Absolutely! It's clearly obvious this shutdown was necessary, and especially south of 28th Street you do have nearby options for travel if you normally use the (4)/ (5)/ . The only people really adversely affected by this particular shutdown were those who use the 33rd Street station because they had to walk or take the (M34) to get to Broadway-6th Avenue.

A new "Black (V)" Myrtle-Brighton line that would run via the existing portion of the Myrtle Avenue El (including a rebuild of the upper level of the Myrtle Avenue (J)/(M)/(Z) station) and all stations along that portion of the line having their platforms lengthened to accommodate 600-foot trains and possibly 75-foot cars on that stretch of the Eastern Division ONLY): Such a new line after Myrtle Avenue upper level would then go via a new stretch of elevated track (stations along that part to be determined, though it would include a connection to the at either Myrtle-Willoughby or Bedford-Nostrand) connecting it to the existing Franklin Avenue Shuttle line, with the Franklin Avenue station becoming a through station and it as well as all other stations on the existing shuttle line also lengthened to handle 600-foot trains and that section re-built to two tracks from the current one. After Prospect Park, the new line continues to Coney Island as a local via the Brighton line, which would potentially allow the to become a 24/7 express to Brighton Beach while the ( would be a local with the new line to Coney Island on weekdays. In addition, a connection from the new line would be made to the Broadway-Brooklyn line to allow when necessary for the , albeit with (obviously 60' cars) five-car 300-foot trains (unless future train orders go back to having the cars either being singles or linked together in pairs as opposed to four or five in a set) to access the Broadway-Brooklyn line when needed so the can operate via the to 6th Avenue-57th Street. What this line would do aside from eliminating the current Franklin Avenue would be to eliminate the overnight shuttle between Metropolitan Avenue and Myrtle since this new "Black (V)" line would be covering that route as well as the rest as a 24/7 line. The cars for this line would be mainly R160s operating out of Coney Island Yard with possibly some R68s mixed in if the restriction on 75-footers on the existing Myrtle Avenue El portion were removed for that stretch ONLY.

I did forget about the yard requirements, so for my new Third Avenue El, they would be the same as the SAS and mainly use R160s and later.

Since I never posted it in this thread, my revival for the 3rd Avenue El, which unlike the old one would be built to BMT/IND Standards, be double decked with limited exceptions and would mark the return of double letters as the current 8th Avenue train would take back the old 70(AA) name (and run to Euclid as the does now) while the new 3rd Avenue El Express/South Ferry Branch would be the while the local/World Trade Center branch would take the old 70(CC) name: As for the stops: South Ferry Branch (Express to Gun Hill Road, Bronx): South Ferry (Terminal, Transfer to (1)/®, MetroCard transfer to (4)/(5) at Bowling Green. Seaport (transfer to , MetroCard transfer to 2/3/4/5/A/C/J and World Trade Center/Battery Park Branch at Fulton Transportation Center) World Trade Center/Battery Park City Branch (Local to 125th Street/Broadway-12th Avenue): Battery Park City (Terminal) World Trade Center (Transfer to 2/3/4/5/A/C/J) Park Row-Chambers Street (Transfer to 4/5/6/J) Both Branches (after Chatam Square, express is on upper level, local on lower level except for 125th Street): Chatam Square (transfer between both branches and , only stop where all tracks are on same level to allow for G.O.'s). Grand Street-Bowery (Express/Local, transfer to B/D/T/J) Houston Street (Local only, MetroCard transfer to at 2nd Avenue, Exits on The Bowery at Houston and Bleecker Streets) 11th-14th Street (Express/Local, transfer to L/T, Metrocard transfer at 14th/4th Avenue-Union Square to 4/5/6/L/N/Q/R) 23rd Street (Local Only, exits at 20th and 23rd) 34th Street (Local Only, exits at 31th and 34th) 42nd Street (Express/Local, Transfer to 4/5/6/7/S/T, exits at 42nd and 44th) 50th-53rd Streets (Express/Local, transfer to 6/E/M/T) 60th-63rd Streets (Express/Local, transfer to 4/5/6/N/R at 60th and F/Q at 63rd) 72nd Street (Local only, exits at 72nd and 75th Streets) 86th Street (Local only, exits at 85th, 86th and 88th Streets, MetroCard transfer to 4/5/6/T) 96th Street (Local only, exits at 94th and 96th Street) 110th Street (Local only, exits at 107th and 110th Streets) Between 110th and 125th Streets, the tracks would come up/down to align four across long enough so that trains can cross over when needed for G.O.'s and so the local can go to the upper level and express to the lower level. 125th Street (Express stop on lower level, local stop on upper level, exits at 122nd and 125th Street). At this point, the new and new 70(CC) would break up. The 70(CC) Local would go west (along with possibly the from the SAS) and make the following stops, all on 125th Street: Lexington-Park Avenues (Transfer at Lexington Avenue for 4/5/6/T, transfer at Park Avenue for Metro North). Lenox Avenue (Transfer to (2)/(3)) St. Nicholas Avenue (Transfer to A/B/C/D) Broadway-12th Avenues (Low elevated terminal with , transfer to ). The new express would be joined by the from the SAS for the Bronx portion of the new 3rd Avenue El, making the following stops: 138th Street (Transfer to ) 149th Street (Transfer to (2)/(5)) 161st Street (Exits at 158th and 161st Street) Claremont Parkway (Exits at 169th Street and Claremont Parkway) Tremont Avenue (Exits at Tremont Avenue and 180th Street) Fordham Road Bedford Park Boulevard (Exits at Bedford Park Blvd. and 203rd Street) 210th Street Gun Hill Road (Terminal with , Transfer to ((2)/(5))

That bottleneck is too big for to have three express lines like that. My idea of the being the Culver Express to Coney Island with the remaining the Culver Local (but only to Church Avenue, except overnights when it would run as it does now) also has a bottleneck, but a MUCH smaller one that is only one station (Broadway-Lafayette), with the , and all stopping there (with the replacing the to Euclid and a new train supplementing with 4-5 tph peak and 2tph overnights between Chambers-168).

Note: You can transfer to the N/R from the 1/2/3 at Times Square if you wish to transfer to the 4/5/6 at 59th in addition to doing that using the to the 4/5/6 at Grand Central, assuming Grand Central is the terminal. This pretty much is how I would do it. Again, pretty much on target with what I would do. Here is where I would make some changes: 1. There would be NO service during this time, with the terminal platform at Chambers Street closed. service would be re-routed as noted above. 2. The train would be extended to all-night service, running its regular route to 71st-Continental and then extended to Jamaica Center, replacing the along that portion of the route. The would also run all night, with select trains also running to Jamaica Center and others terminating at 71-Continental. Overall, some well thought out stuff here. :cool:

You would need to somehow dig a new tunnel from the local track of the to connect to the old local track of the original line north/westbound (now Track 4 on the shuttle) and the same southbound from the from 50th to connect to what is Track 1 on the shuttle, plus obviously lengthen the Grand Central and Times Square Stations on what currently is the shuttle. It would be an engineering nightmare to say the least.

That would basically be a revival of the original route, which had what are now the (4)/(5)/(6) going to 33rd and Park, then turning west and stopping on what is now the station at Grand Central, with the locals then stopping at Times Square (which at the time the subway first opened was nothing like it is now, though in retrospect they should have realized that was going to happen and should have made it an express stop) and then via the (1)/(2)/(3) to 96th and after 96th, via the .

My revived version of the old on a rebuild of the Myrtle Avenue El that would be a new train, with some of the older stations not coming back because these stations would be built for 600' trains, including a rebuilt upper level of Myrtle Avenue-Broadway and the existing portion of where it shares with the : Running the existing route to Myrtle Avenue-Upper Level (transfer at Myrtle for the (J)/(Z)), and because of that, the shuttle on nights and weekends no longer runs. Sumner Avenue Nostrand Avenue Franklin Avenue Washington Avenue Navy Street Line then goes into a tunnel and joins the Montauge Street line, starting with Jay Street-Metrotech (A)/©/(F)/® and Court Street (2)/(3)/(4)/(5) before heading to Manhattan, terminating nights and weekends at Whitehall Street All Times, nights/® other times. On weekdays, the line takes it's old route to Astoria.

11th Avenue is too close to the river for that to work. I would do this as a 10th Avenue line extension of the , with after 8th Avenue-14th Street the line going in a north-northwest direction before reaching the first 10th Avenue stop, 21st-23rd Streets, with 31st-33rd Streets-10th Avenue (straight shot walk from either exit to the by-then open Moynahan Station, possibly with a direct underground entrance) the next stop. I would have no 50th Street stop, but have one at 65th-66th/Amsterdam before a terminal at 72nd Street under the (1)/(2)/(3) OR perhaps a terminal at 96th/Amsterdam (which is on considerably higher ground than West End Avenue at 96th) with a walkway to the steps that had been used as part of the old (1)/(2)/(3) track access on the north end before the current entrance replaced that for a transfer from the .