nostalgia

Which typos are you referring to? Also, I don't see a missing connection to or from the N23 on Saturday.

Look at the column headings for Saturday and Sunday. You'll see that the M-F don't match. M-F has Arrive Roslyn on BOTH sides of the Y/N.

Below is cut and paste from my message to NICE:

I found more typos but not as serious. Look at the N23 and N27 schedules The arrival time at Roslyn for the northbound N23 in the N23 schedule should be the same arrival time for the northbound N23 in the N27 schedule. The N23 shows arrival time at Roslyn at :00 and :30 but the N27 shows arrival time at Roslyn at :59 and :29. They're only off one minute but they should be the same times.

Saturday and Sunday schedules look OK in terms of no typos. However, in terms of the Saturday schedule, there is no connection from the southbound N27 to the northbound N23. On other days, you can make a Glen Cove to Manhorhaven connection at Roslyn.

Should the N47 be absorbed into other route. Is it used by many people.

In the MTA document of service cutbacks, there are an average of 16 passengers per each N47 trip and an average of 240 weekday passengers would be impacted by eliminating the route.

N47 is rush hour route. It overlaps the N70/71/72 on Hempstead Turnpike, N50 on Newbridge Road, and the N46 between Hempstead and East Meadow.

http://www.nicebus.com/Maps_and_Schedules/Route_Information/index.html

 

 

The N23/N27 schedules are fine the way they are. Both of them entirely on one schedule would be too much of a mess. The N27 schedule informs them if and which N23 they'll be connecting to/from and its time points.

 

There are typos in the N27 schedule and on Saturdays, Glen Cove passengers miss the connecting N23 to Port Washington and points north. I wrote to NICE. I expect the internet version of the schedules to be corrected. I don't know if it's too late to correct the paper timetables. NICE hasn't indicated what's going to be done about the missing Saturday connection, which isn't a typo but a planning problem.

I wonder which bay the N43 will use at the Hempstead Bus Terminal

I found this information on bus bay assignments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks_Hempstead_Transit_Center :cool:

I did a search and found this one: http://www.hempsteadplains.com/miditran.htm

 

The southern portion is the N45, the northern portion is a combination of the N78/N79, N35, N22, and then Brush Hollow Road to Jericho.

They have the new schedules up! Check them out: http://nicebus.com/Maps_and_Schedules/Bus_Maps_and_Schedules/index.html

 

So basically today's routes are the result of 1960's franchise restrictions? And if NICE attempted to restructure them there would cries of "hurting riders" SMH

Absolutely correct. Even after the MTA took over and could make route changes, there weren't many route changes, except for eliminations. I don't know all of them but I remember Mid-Island ran Hicksville-Oyster Bay, and Hicksville-Syosset, continuing to Walt Whitman. They also ran Massapequa-Huntington via Farmingdale and Rt 110.

There used to be a lot of Jones Beach service provided by Hempstead Bus, Mid-Island, Stage Coach, and Jerusalem Avenue.

Veolia took over three months ago and knows nothing about county transit history, not that they have to know.

I don't know if remembering this info is good or bad. It's good that my memory is functioning but bad I'm old enough to remember.

I did a search and found this one: http://www.hempsteadplains.com/miditran.htm

 

The southern portion is the N45, the northern portion is a combination of the N78/N79, N35, N22, and then Brush Hollow Road to Jericho.

This is EXACTLY the schedule I was looking. I didn't remember all the details except Uniondale Avenue and N43 is the first route that popped into my head.

Look on the right side "See new schedule for Bellmore-Levittown-Hicksville-Plainview and Syosset." The Bellmore to Hicksville segment is today's N50 except Mid-Island couldn't use Newbridge Road into Hicksville. It went crosstown on Hempstead Turnpike and made a left on Wantagh Avenue and another left onto Hicksville Road.

The Hicksville-Plainview and Syosset continued to Walt Whitman on Jericho Turnpike.

I thought the court house was always there and that where the Greyhound is was the terminal.

The original terminal is diagonally across from the current terminal. As best as I can remember, the entrance was off Jackson into what was a little alley. MapQuest shows a short street called Station Plaza.

I'm sure I'll be corrected - - if I'm wrong.

Interesting, are there old maps available?

There were no county bus maps when the private companies operated their routes. I remember Mid-Island drew a map on their schedule. The type looked like a Royal typewriter. I once found a copy of a Mid-Island schedule on the internet but can't find it now. It resembled today's N43.

I just remember Mid-Island operating Hempstead to Huntington via Roosevelt Field. I even remember the old Hempstead Terminal. There's a courthouse at the old location. (I think it's a courthouse.)

Do you know which route it took? Did it go to Mineola back then?

Mid-Island Transit's N79 went directly to Roosevelt Field. It couldn't go to Mineola because that route (Mineola-Hempstead-Freeport) was owned by Hempstead Bus.

Obviously it'll increase the ridership on the N24 number (longer route = more passengers), but the question is: How many riders are actually going from points east of the RFM to points west of it? Is it going to be like the N78/79 at Hicksville, where everybody says that there's a ton of turnover?

 

I don't really see how this saves money. What they could do instead is reroute the N78/79 to Hempstead instead of extending the N43 there.

Mid-Island ran the N79 from Hempstead.

Ridership will increase because obviously it's going to take existing N78/N79 passengers between Mineola and Hicksville. The N24 is slow because of crappy Jericho Turnpike, not because it has a particular route number. Passengers still have the option to transfer to the N22 at any point that they used to.

 

I do ride Nassau buses, not as extensively as I used to. I usually just have conversations when we're annoyed about being flagged or if a bus is late.

 

What have riders said to you about not liking any of the changes? Some riders didn't like the idea of NICE taking over either, they didn't want their buses terminating at the Queens border, and routes like the N6 being reduced to 30 min headways during rush and all this other nonsense, many are not informed in the first place.

Why does the N24 go to East Meadow in the first place? Can the N46-49 be restructured to pick up these passengers. With all the complaints I've read about slow service, short turning some buses at Roosevelt Field would seem to improve service.

Well, you should've stayed in the better suburb that has potential of NYC: Westchester. The political landscape worsened out there in Nassau and Suffolk Counties.

 

The fact is that Nassau is paying much lower rate to their transit agency than Suffolk, Westchester, maybe even Rockland County! The is simply asking for enough money, which is slightly more [i believe $27-32 Million] than what Westchester or Suffolk [if I remember correctly $19-26 Million] pay their transit service, to keep the existing service (As of Q1/Q2 2011) intact. However, Mangano refuses and got his wish of a private operator..., all suck at providing Public Transit, And Nassau is paying Veolia much lower than they would pay to the , a huge $7-$8 million difference.

 

If Mangano has his way around the law and force people to drive, he would do it, I have little to no doubt! However, the ADA requires Public Transit available to the disabled, so Nassau has to provide Able Ride and Bus Lines. This is why I am angry, Mangano and Schmitt are doing this in favor of their local constituents, and side of the line, not Nassau in General.

 

And besides, Nassau once had $400+ million for a new Nassau Coliseum, where did that funding go huh? HIDDEN! Because Mangano wants to cover up sh1t after this Long Island Bus -> NICE Fiasco! HA! That's why I say Nassau's Government is corrupt, stealing tax payer's money, dysfunctional and stubborn, Bi-Partisan my a$$, both the donkey and elephant are pure sh1t, :mad::mad::mad:, pardon my language!

Paying Veolia less than the MTA for more service than the MTA would provide seems like a good thing. Your beef is Magano is protecting his "local" constituents though he is supposed to look out over the entire county. You should contact the the NY attorney general or US attorney to investigate. They've gone after Wall Street execs and I know they would go after corrupt public officials.

Honestly, they should consider dropping n80/81/73 to peak only instead of this high ridership line change. The changes are run by Edward Mangano and Peter Schmitt, the two corrupt, dysfunctional and stubborn [pardon me but] idiots who don't understand sh1t. They just want people to drive, they just do! I live in Queens yet I am busy looking at Nassau's system because I have friends there who rely on this bus system. This n23/27 thing is not gonna work, it's gonna be choas and tons of standees while the n80/81/73 is running with so many seats open simply because they run thru Mangano's chemical filled district and Schmitt's auto-centric district. :mad: :mad: :mad: If I were the next county executive, I'd tell the to come back to Nassau and I'd hand that money over to them, and approve the Roosevelt Field Mall Expansion, make sure the Nassau Coliseum get rebuilt, and make sure I get revenue, revenue, revenue from other sources, and revitalize Belmont Racetrack to be an Empire City Casino II. *Takes a deep breathe* Back on track...

 

Note: This anger is directed at Mangano's administation, not anyone on this forum/you.

I moved out of Nassau County in 1973 and moved into Westchester County last October. The political landscape changed while I was gone. I'm happy to be back!]

I don't know anything about Mangano nor Schmitt. The facts to me are 1) the MTA wanted to eliminate service and 2) the county hired Veolia and agreed to pay a subsidy they didn't want to pay the MTA. Service is being reduced on some lines and increased on others.

Please fill in some details because I don't understand your anger. If they want people to drive, why was NICE created?:confused:

Interesting but disastrous. A review of your analysis and my opinion of the changes and your analysis:

 

-n27: Retain the service all the damn way, I honestly see more, much more people on the n27 than the n23, it's basically like making sure a herd of people gather at Roslyn LIRR to wait for the n27. This is ridiculous!

 

And honestly, reduced service is completely acceptable, however the realignments sucks, especially the n23/27 thing and n24/78/79 thing...

By short turning the N27 at Roslyn, NICE plans to drop two buses from the schedule. They should build the timetable with Roslyn as the control point for the N23 and N27 to ensure a good connection. The truncated N27 has to meet the north and south bound N23.

Adam's got that photography swag, his stuff is in almost every article involving LIB/NICE... even in the NCC newspaper when the privatization business was going down they used (and credited him for) one of his old LIB photos of an N16 at the DSS building. (They did spell his surname wrong, though...)

 

But why would a transit company lobby against its own ****? This is some garbage.

What is DSS?

after talking with the nice president I'm really not that shocked

Once a transit company makes up its mind what it wants, the public meetings are usually pro forma.

With discussions with a few people on the n21/n27/n23 changes. This is what should be done instead.

-The n21 should have reduced service [or even better, full service] during off-peak hours INSTEAD of no service.

-The n27 should NOT be cut back to Roslyn LIRR, rather have it's current routing, even with reduced service.

-The n23 should NOT run to Hempstead T.C., it should retain it's routing and maybe head to Roosevelt Field.

-The n80/81/73 should be running Peak Hour Service ONLY.

-The n74 would mitigate the lost service on the n80/81/73 without breaking a sweat.

How does running the N74 on Wantagh Avenue mitigate lost service on the N80/N81 on Hicksville Road?

I wanted to quantify the above explanation and I found a partial explanation. I looked at the NICE Veolia contract on the internet. The County's comptroller reviewed the NICE contract and came up with a variable fee rate of $87.12/vehicle hour. The comptroller estimated MTA vehicle hour cost of $128 hour. That's a reduction of $41/hour which is HUGE.

 

I sent this information to Veolia through the NICE website and I hope to get an explanation. The NICE website states that Veolia has found efficiencies. I want to know what they are.

 

This implies that the MTA is overcharging the State to operate regional bus and subway services. If Veolia can find efficiencies, why can't the MTA?

 

Something isn't adding up.

Below is the official answer from the County:

I appreciate your question regarding NICE buses efforts to reduce general operating costs in regards to our contract in Nassau County.

As preciously mentioned, Veolia has been able to reduce costs through various different methods which include, but are not limited to, favorable fuel cost contracts, reduced administration head count, favorable parts procurement agreements, etc. I am not able to supply you with a detailed line by line accounting of these savings but they affect every aspect of our operations in Nassau.

Additionally by carefully and methodically understanding the way our riders use the current system, our system planners have carefully adjusted the system to minimize the effects on riders while maximizing the savings to the County.

We pride ourselves on offering safe, reliable transportation to the Citizens of Nassau County and will continue to look for ways to both improve the current system and increase our service levels.

Thank you,

Danielle Bachor

Communications Manager

Nassau County

Why the generalities sound nice (no pun intended), I don't understand how Veolia found these efficiencies after operating the system for a few months but the MTA NEVER found them.

I don't live in the County but I'm providing this information in case a County resident wants to pursue this issue with the Comptroller.

A side issue is if Veolia could reduce costs by 32%, are MTA costs too high for train service?

The more answers I get, the more questions I have.B):tup:

I know that im just passing along info. Also im asking NICE drivers to join us on here. Is the N54/55 an RVC route if it is, is it the longest one. A driver on the n43 told me that's where all the money is.

The running time on the N19 is longer than the N54. Deadhead time to Freeport and Bablyon is definitely more than deadhead time to Hempstead or Amityville at the other end.

I'd be very surprised if the N54/55 was a RVC route. I'd expect the old Bee line routes to be out of RVC.

During the MTA days picklists were available 2 months in advance at times.

That was impossible in this case. With a planned April 8 schedule change, two months in advance would be February 8. Veolia took over January 1 and didn't release the proposed changes until a few weeks ago. It took the MTA months to analyze ridership before making major schedule and route changes a few years ago. And then there were public meetings.

Assuming that the MTA and Veolia had the same financial facts, its amazing how each decided to solve the problem. The MTA wanted to eliminate service but Veolia wants to adjust service, without eliminations. In fact, Veolia wants to increase service on some routes.

 

From a financial standpoint, every company has fixed (indirect) and variable (direct) costs. Fixed costs are generally overhead (buildings, buses, and front office salaries and benefits) and variable costs are the direct costs of operating a trip (salary and benefits of the operator, gas, bus depreciation, etc.) Fixed costs are "fixed" because they don't change based on the level of service.

 

By the county stating it saved millions of dollars leaving the MTA, this suggests that the county was paying a fortune in MTA overhead and Veolia overhead is much less. Spreading overhead is a mathematical exercise in allocation. Possibly, none of the bridges and tunnel surplus was directed to covering LI Bus costs.

I wanted to quantify the above explanation and I found a partial explanation. I looked at the NICE Veolia contract on the internet. The County's comptroller reviewed the NICE contract and came up with a variable fee rate of $87.12/vehicle hour. The comptroller estimated MTA vehicle hour cost of $128 hour. That's a reduction of $35/hour which is HUGE.

I sent this information to Veolia through the NICE website and I hope to get an explanation. The NICE website states that Veolia has found efficiencies. I want to know what they are.

This implies that the MTA is overcharging the State to operate regional bus and subway services. If Veolia can find efficiencies, why can't the MTA?

Something isn't adding up.

I spoke to a driver this morning pick lists should be available for them in aporx. 2 weeks.

That means that all the decisions have been made. You can't design pick lists until all the bus schedules are determined. The runcutters are checking their work to ensure there's an operator for every scheduled trip every day.

The N50 can be extended to Plainview during rush hours to keep it alive, while the N78 would merge with the N50.

Right now, N46 interlines with N50 at Bellmore.

It not all runs some run on some days I think 7902 On M-F is one but M-W 7902 does 2 roundtrips. Thursdays and Friday it does only 1 I think. Indecently 7902 driver wasn't in to so they had a fill in (who knew they had fill ins available LOL).

This implies that interlining is done on the 23 operator's RDO. For some reason, a relief assignment doesn't take the 23 operator's work and it's covered by interlining.

True. At Hicksville, most riders get off the bus. Then other people get on the bus. At the most 5 people stay on the bus at Hicksville. Same for the Q47. Most people just off the bus at Roosevelt Avenue to take the train. At max 4 riders stay on the bus. I wonder if the N23 will be interlined with another bus line or if it will not interline anymore since the N23 is interlined with the N79 currently. The N79 was made at first to serve areas without the LIRR to connect to the LIRR. That's bascially why NICE and SCT are about.

I'm surprised the 23 is interlined with the 79. The 23 arrives Mineola at :16 and :46 leaves at :29 and :59. The 79 arrives at :17 and :47 and leaves at

:55 and :25. Since the arrival times of 23 and 79 are only one minute apart and their departures are within four minutes of each other, I don't understand the need to interline.