Blinkerdoors Posted July 4, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 4, 2009 I know I'm going to get wacked in the mouth for this, but, do you think that after all these years of wear and tear, there should be a replacment of the entire M&E electrical with brand new towers and fixtures, as well as the NEC, and the SEPTA lines? I know all this is going to cause delays and cost a lot of money but don't you think this is a time for a change? (NJT):me::nec: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted July 5, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 5, 2009 The M&E's catenary poles are actually in the best condition. In fact, the only catenary poles that currently replaced are the wooden ones along the Gladstone Branch which are currently still in excellent shape. Like the NJCL's newer catenary south of the Raritan, the M&E's catenary feature the arms supporting the auxillary and conducting wire like that of constant tension lines. The NEC on the other hand features suspended catenary without any support below the messenger wire. This is why the NEC had so many delays since this type of catenary support increases the chance of snagging at high speeds. Also, this is the reason why the Acela is limited to 135 mph along the longest straight portion of the NEC. The NEC catenary poles can be considered to be in the worse condition, but all reconstruction projects are controlled by Amtrak not NJT. As for SEPTA, I doubt that they even care as much as NJT when all their ex-PRR lines are rotting away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaback9 Posted July 5, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 5, 2009 All I'll say is why? This makes no sense whatsoever. Lets get the NEC back in shape the M and E is in fine shape for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted July 7, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 7, 2009 The :nec: needs arm & beam now, the age of suspended catenary needs to end. There is a short section with rudimentary constant tension & it works very well. Arm & beam would be great for years while they slowly transition to constant tension. A lot of towers would need to be retrofitted with the cross support beams, but thankfully the older type of 2, 3, or 4 prong arm works fine & could simply be used vs insulator arm type seen on the other lines with newer wire. The catenary lines and drop wires should be 100% replaced with new, and the messenger wire should be doubled up & the retainer clips should be replaced with longer ones giving more of a secure grasp & the contact wire should be replaced in sections on night & weekend shifts to modern rectangle shaped vs narrow square. The rectangle helps not only with current transfer efficiency, but also with carbon strip wear. Might be a good time to replace the remaining old school phase gap sliders with newer more reliable ones. - A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted July 7, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 7, 2009 Does anyone know why DL&W and NH railroads based their catenary off the PRR in having the third auxiliary wire between the messenger and conducting wire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted July 8, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 8, 2009 Does anyone know why DL&W and NH railroads based their catenary off the PRR in having the third auxiliary wire between the messenger and conducting wire? There is the catenary wire, drop/suspender wires, messenger (power transmission) wire and contact wire. Is that what you're talking about? Also, Direct suspended wires (no messenger) are very old fashioned and are used in yard areas or low speed service areas, however some can be found in terminal stations as the wire comes into the track end area. - A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaback9 Posted July 8, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 8, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong but I could have sworn the New Haven was the first to electrify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted July 8, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 8, 2009 I believe that the messenger wire is also known as the auxiliary wire. I was just curious why only the contact wire and catenary wire are used in the modern American Catenary, but not before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted July 8, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 8, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong but I could have sworn the New Haven was the first to electrify. I believe you are right, with the triangle arrangement. I believe that the messenger wire is also known as the auxiliary wire. I was just curious why only the contact wire and catenary wire are used in the modern American Catenary, but not before. The messenger wire is just to ensure good power transmission over distance, as it's the same length as the contact wire, the catenary wire is longer due to the curve, so it would mean more substations per so many miles. Constant tension doesn't need the messenger wire, because it uses a newer alloy that wasn't even available when the roads started to electrify. Contact wire is much sturdier than the messenger wire, whereas the messenger wire is softer and meant mainly to conduct electricity. - A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted July 8, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 8, 2009 The messenger wire is just to ensure good power transmission over distance, as it's the same length as the contact wire, the catenary wire is longer due to the curve, so it would mean more substations per so many miles. Constant tension doesn't need the messenger wire, because it uses a newer alloy that wasn't even available when the roads started to electrify. Contact wire is much sturdier than the messenger wire, whereas the messenger wire is softer and meant mainly to conduct electricity. - A Thanks for the info! On second, I now remember that all the electrified lines that I rode on around the world without Constant Tension has a messenger wire in its catenary. A good example is the RATP/SNCF RER system in Paris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blinkerdoors Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted July 11, 2009 Thank you! Somebody's listening!(NJT):me::nec: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blinkerdoors Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted July 11, 2009 I wonder if such books still exist that can tell us when the steam railroads electrified first or online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted July 14, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 14, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_electrification_in_the_United_States#Baltimore_and_Ohio_Railroad Hope that helps. :cool: - A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.J. Posted July 14, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 14, 2009 I know I'm going to get wacked in the mouth for this, but, do you think that after all these years of wear and tear, there should be a replacment of the entire M&E electrical with brand new towers and fixtures, as well as the NEC, and the SEPTA lines? I know all this is going to cause delays and cost a lot of money but don't you think this is a time for a change?(NJT):me::nec: I'm gonna whack you in the mouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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