Help a transplant understand how government in NYS works...

[Deucey]

I'm referring to every part of the state that isn't NYC.

So where I'm from, there are two divisions: Counties and incorporated cities. Everyone lives in a county, but not necessarily in a city.

Example: I'm from Fair Oaks California - an unincorporated census-designated place (CDP) in Sacramento County. My father lives in Arden-Arcade, another CDP in Sacramento County. His address reads Sacramento, but he doesn't vote for mayor of Sacramento because he's not in the City of Sacramento, just the county.

We voted for County Supervisors - who are the legislators for the County, while people in the City of Sacramento voted for both Supervisors and City Council members.

Counties, being subdivisions of the State of California, implemented state laws within the state-supported county lines, and handled local stuff for areas that weren't incorporated into a city. Example: It's why Sacramento County shoppers pay higher sales tax than City of Sacramento shoppers - the County supervisors raised it higher over the state minimum than the City Council chose to. But it's also how the City had to implement certain public health mandates automatically - rules came from the State and the County enforced implementation.

(Context of why I'm asking...)

So I'm reading stuff trying to understand how the other 57 counties in the GSONY work. It looks like everyone votes for county legislators, but everyone also lives in a town with a town council and some live in a village with a village council, unless one lives in a city.

But if everyone lives in a town and the town sets baseline rules, why does NY have county governments?

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

Not well.

Do you really need details? But if you do, I can set the same example as a typical NYS politician and refer you to something that makes you ask more questions.

[Deucey]

2 hours ago, MassTransitHonchkrow said:

Not well.

Do you really need details? But if you do, I can set the same example as a typical NYS politician and refer you to something that makes you ask more questions.

Yup. I already cracked Pandora's box. May as well open the whole damn thing all the way.

 

I just really don't get why Counties have governments if every part of a county is legally in a town and the villages in that town can vote for the leadership of the town.

Seems a lot of taxation could disappear if county-level government was eliminated because it's redundant.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

@Deucey you lost me 😵

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, MassTransitHonchkrow said:

@Deucey you lost me 😵

Imagine how I feel.

 

I'll try it again. If everyone in NY outside NYC lives in a town, and towns have home rule powers that let them do everything counties can do, why are there still county governments in NY?

As I understand it, Connecticut is the same - everyone lives in a town, but there are no county governments. Why isn't that duplicated in NY?

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

On 12/5/2017 at 6:58 PM, Deucey said:

Imagine how I feel.

 

I'll try it again. If everyone in NY outside NYC lives in a town, and towns have home rule powers that let them do everything counties can do, why are there still county governments in NY?

As I understand it, Connecticut is the same - everyone lives in a town, but there are no county governments. Why isn't that duplicated in NY?

That might be because of how state constitutions are composed - it requires top-down oversight, which is something mentioned in the supremacy clause of the US Constitution. Any laws or authority not asserted by the federal or state governments can be asserted by county and local governments.

It's a requirement that all states had to ratify to be a part of the union (including the 11 states that seceded between Dec. 1860 and April 1861), which were readmitted between May 1866 and March 1870, starting with Tennessee and ending with Texas.

[Deucey]

23 minutes ago, MassTransitHonchkrow said:

That might be because of how state constitutions are composed - it requires top-down oversight, which is something mentioned in the supremacy clause of the US Constitution. Any laws or authority not asserted by the federal or state governments can be asserted by county and local governments.

It's a requirement that all states had to ratify to be a part of the union (including the 11 states that seceded between Dec. 1860 and April 1861), which were readmitted between May 1866 and March 1870, starting with Tennessee and ending with Texas.

No. All powers not given to the feds are given to the states. Actual text of the 10th Amendment:

 

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

That “respectively” is the key word, as it makes the States the arbiter of what can legally be done and how it’s territory is administered.

It’s why Dillon’s Rule is the cornerstone of municipal law - there’s no legal right for municipalities to exist.

It’s why each state has laws governing how city (or village formation) occurs; it’s how states create or consolidate counties. After Congress ratified a state’s entry into the US, the state can do practically whatever it wants within its territory.

So since NYS decided every NYer lives in a city or town (incorporated area), and each town handles typical county-wide planning within it’s portion of its county (or counties, like Geneva and NYC) and has elected municipal officials who coordinate with counterparts in adjacent villages, hamlets, towns and cities, why are county governments still a thing in NY, since they’re redundant?

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

On 12/8/2017 at 1:07 PM, Deucey said:

No. All powers not given to the feds are given to the states. Actual text of the 10th Amendment:

 

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

That “respectively” is the key word, as it makes the States the arbiter of what can legally be done and how it’s territory is administered.

It’s why Dillon’s Rule is the cornerstone of municipal law - there’s no legal right for municipalities to exist.

It’s why each state has laws governing how city (or village formation) occurs; it’s how states create or consolidate counties. After Congress ratified a state’s entry into the US, the state can do practically whatever it wants within its territory.

So since NYS decided every NYer lives in a city or town (incorporated area), and each town handles typical county-wide planning within it’s portion of its county (or counties, like Geneva and NYC) and has elected municipal officials who coordinate with counterparts in adjacent villages, hamlets, towns and cities, why are county governments still a thing in NY, since they’re redundant?

You might have a better handle on this than I do. I'm learning here.

 By people, they also mean those not specified, like townships, counties and parishes.

That might be the 7% I lost on my US History and Gov't Regents.

Sadly, New York State has compelled counties to share the burden of Medicaid, in addition to county DOTs picking up the slack that the state can't (worth noting a permanent DMV commish still does not exist). This isn't representative of the rest of the country and is the product of a state legislature that does not take initiative and only seeks city office because the salaries are higher. This requires a subset of people that are essentially doing the state's job at the local level.

 

Some pensioners will make more per year when they retire than any Assemblymember in their next three lifetimes. Boy are we broken.

[CDTA]

I don't know how it was in Massachusetts and Rhode Island but the problem in New York is that the county actually does do a lot. It's the towns that don't do anything and are redundant. I don't think anyone would object to eliminating town level government, but this is where New York being New York comes in. We're never gonna get rid of towns because that's less jobs people can give to their kids and friends, etc, you know the deal.