MTA Researcher Posted July 8, 2021 Share #1 Posted July 8, 2021 Here’s my Master Plan to improve MTA overall subway service: https://metrodreamin.com/view/VFZWV3ZTMUFWU090alJ0VURtTjQxTFMzYVg5M3wx A train All Times except Late Nights: Inwood - 207 St - Far Rockaway - CPW / 8th Avenue / Fulton Street Express via JFK Airport Late Nights: Inwood - 207 St - Far Rockaway - All Local C train Rush Hours: Bedford Park Blvd - Euclid Av - Concourse Local - CPW / 8 Av Local - Fulton St Local Middays, Evenings and Weekends: 145 St - Euclid Av -CPW / 8 Av / Fulton St Local Late Nights: No Service, use A or B E train All Times except Late Nights: Jamaica Center - World Trade Center - Queens Blvd Express - 8 Av Local - via 53rd St Late Nights: Jamaica Center - World Trade Center - All Local - via 53rd St K train All Times except Late Nights: 168 St - Ozone Park - CPW Local - 8 Av / Fulton St Express Late Nights: Euclid Av - Ozone Park - Shuttle B train Rush Hours: Norwood - 205 St - Coney Island - Concourse Express - Central Park West / 6th Avenue Express - Brighton Local Other Times: Norwood - 205 St - Coney Island - Concourse Local - Central Park West / 6th Avenue Express - Brighton Local D train Weekdays: Forest Hills - 71 Av - Church Av - Queens Blvd / 6 Av Local - Culver Express - via 53rd St Weekends and Late Nights: No Service, use E, F or R F train All Times: Jamaica 179 St - Coney Island - Queens Blvd Express - 6 Av Local - Culver Local - via 63rd St Q train All Times: Inwood - 207 St - Bay Ridge 95th Street - CPW / 6 Av Express - 4 Av Local J train Rush Hours: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Broad Street - Skip-Stop Service with Z between Sutphin Blvd and Broadway Junction - Local between Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue Other Times: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Broad Street - All Local M train All Times except Late Nights: Metropolitan Ave. - Bay Parkway - Nassau Street / 4th Avenue Local via West End / Montague Street Tunnel Late Nights: Metropolitan Av - Myrtle Av - Shuttle Z train Rush Hours: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Broad Street - Skip-Stop Service with J between Sutphin Blvd and Broadway Junction - Express between Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue (peak directions) Middays and Evenings: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Broad Street - Express between Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue (peak directions) (Z now runs in both directions) Weekends and Late Nights: No service, use J N train All Times except Late Nights: 96 street / 2nd Avenue- Coney Island - Broadway / 4th Avenue Express via Sea Beach / Manhattan Bridge Late Nights: 96 street / 2nd Avenue- Coney Island - Broadway / 4th Avenue Local, via Sea Beach / Manhattan Bridge R train All Times except Late Nights: Forest Hills - 71 Av - Coney Island - Broadway / 4th Avenue Express - Queens Blvd Local via 63rd Street / Manhattan Bridge / West End Late Nights: Atlantic Av - Barclays Ctr - Coney Island - 4 Av Express - via West End W train All Times: Astoria Ditmars Blvd - Whitehall St - Astoria / Broadway Local X train Weekdays: Astoria Ditmars Blvd - Brighton Beach - Astoria Express - Broadway Local - Brighton Express - via Montague St Tunnel Weekends and Late Nights: No Service, use B, M or W G, L, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 trains are fine the way they are. Please tell me what you think 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted July 8, 2021 Share #2 Posted July 8, 2021 1 hour ago, MTA Researcher said: Here’s my Master Plan to improve MTA overall subway service: https://metrodreamin.com/view/VFZWV3ZTMUFWU090alJ0VURtTjQxTFMzYVg5M3wx A train All Times except Late Nights: Inwood - 207 St - Far Rockaway - CPW / 8th Avenue / Fulton Street Express via JFK Airport Late Nights: Inwood - 207 St - Far Rockaway - All Local C train Rush Hours: Bedford Park Blvd - Euclid Av - Concourse Local - CPW / 8 Av Local - Fulton St Local Middays, Evenings and Weekends: 145 St - Euclid Av -CPW / 8 Av / Fulton St Local Late Nights: No Service, use A or B E train All Times except Late Nights: Jamaica Center - World Trade Center - Queens Blvd Express - 8 Av Local - via 53rd St Late Nights: Jamaica Center - World Trade Center - All Local - via 53rd St K train All Times except Late Nights: 168 St - Ozone Park - CPW Local - 8 Av / Fulton St Express Late Nights: Euclid Av - Ozone Park - Shuttle B train Rush Hours: Norwood - 205 St - Coney Island - Concourse Express - Central Park West / 6th Avenue Express - Brighton Local Other Times: Norwood - 205 St - Coney Island - Concourse Local - Central Park West / 6th Avenue Express - Brighton Local D train Weekdays: Forest Hills - 71 Av - Church Av - Queens Blvd / 6 Av Local - Culver Express - via 53rd St Weekends and Late Nights: No Service, use E, F or R F train All Times: Jamaica 179 St - Coney Island - Queens Blvd Express - 6 Av Local - Culver Local - via 63rd St Q train All Times: Inwood - 207 St - Bay Ridge 95th Street - CPW / 6 Av Express - 4 Av Local J train Rush Hours: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Broad Street - Skip-Stop Service with Z between Sutphin Blvd and Broadway Junction - Local between Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue Other Times: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Broad Street - All Local M train All Times except Late Nights: Metropolitan Ave. - Bay Parkway - Nassau Street / 4th Avenue Local via West End / Montague Street Tunnel Late Nights: Metropolitan Av - Myrtle Av - Shuttle Z train Rush Hours: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Broad Street - Skip-Stop Service with J between Sutphin Blvd and Broadway Junction - Express between Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue (peak directions) Middays and Evenings: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Broad Street - Express between Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue (peak directions) (Z now runs in both directions) Weekends and Late Nights: No service, use J N train All Times except Late Nights: 96 street / 2nd Avenue- Coney Island - Broadway / 4th Avenue Express via Sea Beach / Manhattan Bridge Late Nights: 96 street / 2nd Avenue- Coney Island - Broadway / 4th Avenue Local, via Sea Beach / Manhattan Bridge R train All Times except Late Nights: Forest Hills - 71 Av - Coney Island - Broadway / 4th Avenue Express - Queens Blvd Local via 63rd Street / Manhattan Bridge / West End Late Nights: Atlantic Av - Barclays Ctr - Coney Island - 4 Av Express - via West End W train All Times: Astoria Ditmars Blvd - Whitehall St - Astoria / Broadway Local X train Weekdays: Astoria Ditmars Blvd - Brighton Beach - Astoria Express - Broadway Local - Brighton Express - via Montague St Tunnel Weekends and Late Nights: No Service, use B, M or W G, L, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 trains are fine the way they are. Please tell me what you think I don't see how much if this improves the NYCT, in fact nothing is solved at all except for more interlining than usual. There's nothing much to say about the and except the is local along CPW. This is an issue because there are no switches that allows the to run from 8 Av line onto the CPW line before it hits 59 St-Columbus Circle. This means you got 3 different train lines that needs to stop at the express side of the station which is very bad because you add interlining which would delay trains even further. Then you also got the issue of the interfering with trains as well as the whole mess between Canal St and Hoyt. The current and has to merge with each other between those 2 stations in order to get from Brooklyn to Manhattan and vice versa. This hurts the because it needs to run to Lefferts/Rockaways while also having to deal with getting in the way. Now it's worse because the is running local along CPW and another line interfering with the hurting its service even further that being the (I'll get to in a bit). If you kept the as the to Lefferts, I wouldn't have an issue because its just the , no interlining and brings down confusion to those trying to figure out which train is going where. Next we have the and , people prefer having the along Concourse because it's been the line that's served it. Much like how people preferred keeping the letter M around when the died (which I'll get into later), there wasn't a need in not having the continue serving Concourse. But then you decide to have the run some other completely different route than expected and had it run along as the 's version of the , that being a local version from Church Av running local all the way to Forest Hills. This is literally just the extended into Brooklyn, there was no need in swapping around letter at all. Not to mention bringing back the would've made a lot of people angry. The current already does a much better job than it has for a very long time. I would like to see it come back, but it would be carrying air. Next up we have the and this Yellow (X). Like I said about the other one, there was no reason in changing the names around at all, it's just very unnecessary. Although, there are some things I see that has been solved. Broadway doesn't have an interlining issue like it does before which was the merging onto the local tracks between 34 St and 42 St as well as three different lines running along the same tunnel that being 60 St tunnel. However, there are some new issues that comes up. For starters, we got the merging with the along 63 St only for the to run local the rest of the way and meeting up with the along QBL. I wouldn't have an issue, but this would delay trains trying to run express along QBL which still has the same amount of merging issues as the current service does, actually maybe even worse. Not only is the forced to merge with the (which I should call the since that is what it is) between Bergen St and 47-50 Sts, but it has to merge with the only to split up again and with the . Oh and I forgot to mention the , so that's four different lines. Then you got this Yellow (X) which is basically the back running express along Brighton like it used to, but now runs local along Broadway. I also want to mention that Dekalb junction hasn't been fixed at all which is a huge disappointment. All in all, nothing seems to be "improved" by this "master plan" of yours. You got more delays on certain lines and unnecessary changes to others, this in all honesty is actually worse than the current system. I do like some of these ideas, the could be looked at further which could honestly happen seeing as is going to be 100% NTT's soon which would make signing up trains easier because no more R46's running around and less hassle for crews. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share #3 Posted July 13, 2021 Vulturious, thank you for your feedback. All right let’s have a conversation about how we can make it work. First of all a little intro about me: I am passionate about trains. I’m borderline autistic so pardon my eccentric personality lol. I grew up with the orange Q train (yes I’m a 90s baby). with that out of the way, let’s begin the conversation (keep it friendly). this idea was an attempt to try and fix the system while fulfilling my wishlist. My wish list: Orange Q train Brown M train N train full time day express service via 2nd Ave R train via Bway / 4 Ave express via 63rd St X train (fourth Bway line) De-Interline System (if it helps improve the system) According to your feedback you want to De-Interline the system. Perfect! Now let’s figure out the deinterline definition. I believe deinterline is to have 2 routes not share tracks. (i.e CPW line 1 orange 1 blue in both exp and lcl). Did I miss anything else? One more thing, I used to believe that lines could be rearranged regardless of track layout. I.E. I used to believe that N could stop at 45 and 53 sts and go to sea beach while R skips those stops and go to Bay Ridge, without a crossover. Later on I learned that there’s more to it than rearranging lines. All right I give you the mic to reply to me with your thoughts. Lets improve the system while fulfilling each other’s wishlist! A win-win! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted July 13, 2021 Share #4 Posted July 13, 2021 58 minutes ago, MTA Researcher said: Vulturious, thank you for your feedback. All right let’s have a conversation about how we can make it work. First of all a little intro about me: I am passionate about trains. I’m borderline autistic so pardon my eccentric personality lol. I grew up with the orange Q train (yes I’m a 90s baby). with that out of the way, let’s begin the conversation (keep it friendly). this idea was an attempt to try and fix the system while fulfilling my wishlist. My wish list: Orange Q train Brown M train N train full time day express service via 2nd Ave R train via Bway / 4 Ave express via 63rd St X train (fourth Bway line) De-Interline System (if it helps improve the system) According to your feedback you want to De-Interline the system. Perfect! Now let’s figure out the deinterline definition. I believe deinterline is to have 2 routes not share tracks. (i.e CPW line 1 orange 1 blue in both exp and lcl). Did I miss anything else? One more thing, I used to believe that lines could be rearranged regardless of track layout. I.E. I used to believe that N could stop at 45 and 53 sts and go to sea beach while R skips those stops and go to Bay Ridge, without a crossover. Later on I learned that there’s more to it than rearranging lines. All right I give you the mic to reply to me with your thoughts. Lets improve the system while fulfilling each other’s wishlist! A win-win! Interesting, unfortunately, the probably will never come back and the definitely will not come back. As much as I loved riding it along West End and actually getting some service unlike the even before COVID, it was pretty dead regardless. People nowadays want service into midtown and a direct one at that. I definitely wouldn't mind if the ran to Inwood, it's just another service cannot run their either. Same with three different lines running on the same track which is a recipe for disaster. Even Broadway couldn't pull it off. The running express along 4th Av with the local between 59 St and 36 St, it's not exactly easy to pull it off. You would have to rebuild tunnels and make flyovers at whichever point along 4 Av to pull it off. Not only would it be pretty expensive, but service along 4 Av would be grinded to a halt which definitely would bring a lot of angry people (including myself). 4th Av is very busy (mainly the and ), I remembered there was a G.O. back in October of last year that cut off trains to Manhattan forcing them to terminate at 36 St. The amount of packed buses I saw people trying to board just trying to get to Atlantic Av was pretty crazy. I don't necessarily have an issue with flyovers being created to allow the to run express along 4 Av while and trains run local along 4th Av. Of course it would be an inconvenience, but the and run express in Manhattan and pretty much goes straight into midtown skipping lower Manhattan. As for that Yellow (X), it's still pretty much an extension of the current that runs express along Brighton. Personally, they really should just extend the current to Bay Parkway, Whitehall isn't the best place to terminate and has an easier access to Coney Island Yard. You're pretty much on the dot about deinterlining. It's not easy to deinterline the system without having drawbacks, biggest one I can really think of is QBL. 63 St tunnel connected to QBL really screwed up things, I didn't mind the connection, but I would've preferred if it was kept as a connection only and not something to be used in actual normal service. CPW is also a difficult one mainly because of 50 St as well as what to do with the express service. It's easy to say one line can stay local while the other swaps express, however it hurts one of the express lines. trains has always ran express because it's got the lineup, trains usually run local because of the lack of demand for extra late night service forcing them to run local late nights. You could easily say trains swap with the to deinterline CPW. Issue with that is like I said earlier is 50 St. People want local service accessing to CPW, an argument could be said to just take the to 7 Av and transfer over to a or . However, it's also about the direct connection. Same logic can apply here when it comes to the QBL as well as other areas too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted July 13, 2021 Share #5 Posted July 13, 2021 10 hours ago, MTA Researcher said: Vulturious, thank you for your feedback. All right let’s have a conversation about how we can make it work. First of all a little intro about me: I am passionate about trains. I’m borderline autistic so pardon my eccentric personality lol. I grew up with the orange Q train (yes I’m a 90s baby). with that out of the way, let’s begin the conversation (keep it friendly). this idea was an attempt to try and fix the system while fulfilling my wishlist. My wish list: Orange Q train Brown M train N train full time day express service via 2nd Ave R train via Bway / 4 Ave express via 63rd St X train (fourth Bway line) De-Interline System (if it helps improve the system) According to your feedback you want to De-Interline the system. Perfect! Now let’s figure out the deinterline definition. I believe deinterline is to have 2 routes not share tracks. (i.e CPW line 1 orange 1 blue in both exp and lcl). Did I miss anything else? One more thing, I used to believe that lines could be rearranged regardless of track layout. I.E. I used to believe that N could stop at 45 and 53 sts and go to sea beach while R skips those stops and go to Bay Ridge, without a crossover. Later on I learned that there’s more to it than rearranging lines. All right I give you the mic to reply to me with your thoughts. Lets improve the system while fulfilling each other’s wishlist! A win-win! I also used the orange service to travel to/from DeKalb Ave for high school all the time (Brooklyn Tech '96 alum here) and also to railfan the Brighton Line. And while I found the service to be nice and fast, especially after they put R40s on it (although that was after I graduated), I found it difficult to get to, since I lived in The Bronx along the and lines. The only place you could transfer between the and was Atlantic Ave, whereas there are a couple places in Manhattan where you can transfer from the to the current ( at Times Sq, at Union Sq and Lex-125th if we ever get SAS Phase 2). This is a big reason why I'm not a fan of bringing back the . That and the present has way better transfers and is more popular with Brighton Line riders. In fact, it may have always been, because in the late 60s when the was routed onto the Brighton express tracks, the The brown train was another one I used in my high school years, but not nearly as much as the (and even less when they began turning it at Chambers middays). But it too, has some big limitations compared to the current service, specifically popularity with riders. Many more riders want Midtown over Lower Manhattan, so we risk many Midtown-bound riders flooding Delancey St to transfer to the or the at Myrtle-Wyckoff, as they did in the past. The old , especially during its last 5-10 years, had very low ridership in South Brooklyn, and I don't really see how that would change if it got brought back. The as an express via 63rd Street is a possibility. But it would need QBL to be deinterlined to really work. You could do that by having the run local on QB to/from 71st and the run express, with the running to/from Jamaica Center replacing the . I suggested a similar plan in the "De-Interlining: Problem or Solution" thread, that has the replacing the as a QBL express to/from Jamaica. But then the would have to remain express in Manhattan and take the bridge between Canal and Brooklyn. It then gets tricky in Brooklyn, because the can't assume its current Brooklyn route coming off the bridge without causing major delays at DeKalb merging with the . It can go express in Brooklyn and skip DeKalb like the currently does, but then it would still have to merge with the after DeKalb in order to take the bridge. That, or the replaces another service in Brooklyn that currently uses the bridge. It would get complicated pretty quickly for riders in South Brooklyn who are used to service patterns they've had for years. There is a provision for switch tracks that would permit a 4th Ave express train to switch to local south of 36th Street, while the local north of 36th would take the existing switch to go onto the West End Line. The could do that as an Broadway/bridge express, but it would still have to merge with the if that service is still on the Brighton Line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share #6 Posted July 14, 2021 Dyre lol I envy you I only got to ride the orange Q once, and 1 stop with my parents… I was only 6 years old at the time… I want to see R46 on the Orange Q. Congratulations though you had better luck than me. Congrats on Brooklyn Tech too Let’s have a conversation. Keep it cool though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted July 14, 2021 Share #7 Posted July 14, 2021 I never rode one, but I do recall reading on the forums that they briefly ran R46s on the orange Q…well, sort of. It was in 1989-90 when they ran a / combo train from 21st St-Queensbridge to Stillwell Ave. This was just before they sent the R46s upstate for rebuilding. It was in essence, a late night train as it ran the then- route from Rockefeller Center to Queensbridge. I never saw it, but I read they signed it in front as Q then changed it to F at Rockefeller and vice versa northbound. Eventually, it was just signed up as F the whole way for the rest of the time the late-night ran to/from Queensbridge. In December 2001, the began running its current route via the 63rd Street tunnel 24/7. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share #8 Posted July 14, 2021 @Vulturious Tell me, which routes do you think should be deinterlined? Which ones should be interlined? i have a feeling that we shouldn’t overdo it with deinterlining or interlining… Rank them up from should deinterline to should interline. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted July 15, 2021 Share #9 Posted July 15, 2021 2 hours ago, MTA Researcher said: @Vulturious Tell me, which routes do you think should be deinterlined? Which ones should be interlined? i have a feeling that we shouldn’t overdo it with deinterlining or interlining… Rank them up from should deinterline to should interline. Honestly, the easiest area to deinterline is Dekalb Junction. Either running all of 6 Av express along 4 Av or Brighton and vice versa with Broadway express. We also got other choke points like QBL, CPW, Rogers, Canal (8 Av line), etc. However, there isn't really a way I can rank what needs to be deinterlined first. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsman Posted July 15, 2021 Share #10 Posted July 15, 2021 The first part of the system to deinteline is the Broadway BMT main line. Run as a 96th - Broadway express - 4th Ave express - Sea Beach train. Doing this would require some level of re-allocation of the trains along the Broadway line so that it can work well. Decrease* service levels on and and increase service levels on . trains will be the sole trains serving Astoria, and they will run Astoria - Broadway local - Whitehall, but some trains will be extended into Brooklyn to probably the Bay Pkwy station on the West End line. * Decreasing service levels is only necessary if the deinterlining is meant to be revenue neutral. If service levels on the Broadway lines overall are constant, you will need to allocate more trains to to adequately serve Astoria. However, if it is not revenue neutral, the deinterlining will allow for more service on all of the lines and so a net service increase would be possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted July 17, 2021 Author Share #11 Posted July 17, 2021 @Vulturious @mrsman I hereby unveil to you buddies my revised subway map. Tell me what do you think now? NOTE: This is just the core of my idea. The details will be told soon regarding service throughout the day or week. https://metrodreamin.com/view/VFZWV3ZTMUFWU090alJ0VURtTjQxTFMzYVg5M3wy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted July 17, 2021 Author Share #12 Posted July 17, 2021 All right here are the details regarding service throughout the day and week. A train All Times: Jamaica Center- Rockaway Park - Queens Blvd Express - 8 Av / Fulton St Express C train Rush Hours: Bedford Park Blvd - World Trade Center - Concourse Local - CPW / 8 Av Local Middays, Evenings and Weekends: 145 St - World Trade Center -CPW / 8 Av Local Late Nights: No Service, use B, K or Q E train All Times except Late Nights: 168 St - Lefferts Blvd - CPW / 8 Av / Fulton St Local Late Nights: Euclid Av - Lefferts Blvd - Shuttle K train All Times except Late Nights: Jamaica 179 St - Far Rockaway - Queens Blvd Express 8 Av / Fulton St Express Late Nights: Jamaica 179 St - Far Rockaway - All Local B train Rush Hours: Norwood - 205 St - Coney Island - Concourse Express - Central Park West / 6th Avenue Express - 4 Av Express - West End Express(peak directions) Middays & Evenings: Norwood - 205 St - Coney Island - Concourse Local - Central Park West / 6th Avenue Express - 4 Av Express - West End Express (peak directions) Weekends: Norwood - 205 St - Coney Island - Concourse Local - Central Park West / 6th Avenue Express - 4 Av Express - West End Local Late Nights: Norwood - 205 St - Coney Island - Concourse Local - Central Park West / 6th Avenue Express - 4 Av Local- West End Local D train Rush Hours: Forest Hills - 71 Av - Kings Highway - Queens Blvd / 6 Av Local - Express between Jay St - Church Av (both directions) Express between Church Av - Kings Highway (peak directions) - via 63rd St / Culver Middays & Evenings: Forest Hills - 71 Av - Kings Highway - Queens Blvd / 6 Av Local - Express between Jay St - Church Av (both directions) via 63rd St / Culver Weekends and Late Nights: No Service, use F F train All Times: Forest Hills 71 Av - Coney Island - Queens Blvd Local - 6 Av Local - Culver Local - via 63rd St Q train All Times except Late Nights: Inwood - 207 St - Coney Island - CPW / 6 Av Express 4 Av Express via Sea Beach Late Nights: Inwood - 207 St - Coney Island - All Local J train Rush Hours: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Broad Street - Skip-Stop Service with Z between Sutphin Blvd and Broadway Junction - Local between Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue Middays & Evenings: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Broad Street - All Local Weekends and Late Nights: No Service use Z M train Weekdays: Metropolitan Ave. - Coney Island - Nassau Street / 4th Avenue Local West End Local via Montague Street Tunnel Weekends & Late Nights: Metropolitan Av - Myrtle Av - Shuttle Z train Rush Hours: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Bay Ridge 95th Street - Skip-Stop Service with J between Sutphin Blvd and Broadway Junction - Express between Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue (peak directions) 4 Av Local via Montague St Tunnel Middays and Evenings: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Bay Ridge 95th Street - Express between Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue (peak directions) 4 Av Local via Montague St Tunnel Weekends and Late Nights: Jamaica Center Parsons Archer - Bay Ridge 95th Street - All Local N train All Times except Late Nights: 96 street / 2nd Avenue- Coney Island - Broadway Express- Brighton Local Late Nights: 96 street / 2nd Avenue- Coney Island - All Local R train Weekdays: 96 street / 2nd Avenue - Brighton Beach - Broadway Express - Brighton Express Weekends and Late Nights: No Service use N W train All Times: Astoria Ditmars Blvd - Whitehall St - Astoria / Broadway Local G, L, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 trains are fine the way they are. I am not sure where F should terminate in the northbound section during Late Nights… Please give me feedback on my overall work. Thank you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsman Posted July 19, 2021 Share #13 Posted July 19, 2021 There is a lot to like here, even if this is not quite what I had in mind. NR is a completely deinterlined route. Upper SAS - Broadway express - Brighton. Very good. W is separated from other trains in revenue service and will merge with other lines in off-peak non-revenue service to reach CI yard. OK. I do conceptually like the idea of keeping Willy Br trains off the 6th Ave line, but I know that it means heavy transferring at Essex. [So this forced transfer would be very incovenient for current M passengers.] I also don't think it will work to have J local and Z express west of Bwy jct. If JZ are skip-stop, they really have to keep an equivalent service pattern west of Bwy Jct. I also don't think we need a second line to serve West End. I would instead prefer the following: M: Metropolitan - Chambers. (weekend/late night shuttle) J: Parsons/Archer - Broad. Local. (no service weekend/ late night) Z: Broadway Junction - Nassau line - Bay Ridge 95th. Peak direction express between Bwy Jct. and Marcy. Service extended to Parsons/Archer weekend and late night. One very nice feature of the above is that it will allow for more streamlined service for some of the other routes. BQ is CPW express - 6th express - 4th express. DF is QBL local- 6th local - Culver. The big problem is the 8th Ave line. The QBL express is very busy. It will take up the whole capacity of the 8th Ave express. It will not leave any room for your E train to merge in to provide Fulton local service. It would seem better to have AK be the exclusive QBL express - 8th express - Fulton service and to have both C and E terminate at WTC. You could have a third service to provide service as the Fulton local, but that would still need to be connected to 8th express/QBL express, not from the 8th local. It would seem better to have the following: A: JC - QBL express - 8th express - Fulton express - Rock Pk K: 179th - Hillside local - QBL express - Fulton express - Far Rock H 179th - Hillside express - QBL express - Fulton local - Leffterts CE - are the 8th locals and will be as you describe in your post, except that both trains will terminate at WTC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsman Posted July 19, 2021 Share #14 Posted July 19, 2021 One more thing: the plan to send all QBL locals to 63rd street will still leave a lack of connection for QBL local riders to LIC/Queens Plaza area. This is not an easy problem to fix, as each solution has its drawbacks. What I had proposed earlier was allowing G trains to also serve as a QBL local, but this can only be done as an ADDITIONAL service, not a replacement service. Forest Hills limits turnbacks to 20 TPH. If only 20 TPH is provided on the QBL local, all of those trains should go to Manhattan, but if we can somehow get more trains on the QBL local, like 30 TPH, then you can provide 10 TPH G trains in addition to the existing 20 TPH to Manhattan. My proposal made use of the 179th terminal, which is more capable of turning more trains. Another proposal would be to provide a new branch line for the locals, so that half can go to Forest Hills and half can go to the new branch. Obviously, a new branch is a bit more involved than simply rearrranging the existing trains in a better fashion. The new branches that are discussed (on this forum) are either RBB/QuuensLink or a line on the eastern LIE. Another option for JMZ service: J/Z skip stop from JC to Broad St as is currently done, and then sending all the M trains to Bay Ridge. When M operates as a shuttle nights and weekends, then J would be extended to Bay Ridge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share #15 Posted July 24, 2021 On 7/19/2021 at 12:24 AM, mrsman said: It would seem better to have the following: A: JC - QBL express - 8th express - Fulton express - Rock Pk K: 179th - Hillside local - QBL express - Fulton express - Far Rock H 179th - Hillside express - QBL express - Fulton local - Leffterts CE - are the 8th locals and will be as you describe in your post, except that both trains will terminate at WTC. That’s actually the brightest idea ever, besides the foundation of my proposal. We need more Hillside service as the current F needs the E to assist in Hillside. The proposed H, K trains in your format is even better than what we have today. All right, the E gets less headache not having to go to Brooklyn and Queens; You just helped me eliminate a triple-borough local. Thank you and congratulations on figuring that part out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share #16 Posted July 24, 2021 On 7/19/2021 at 12:24 AM, mrsman said: M: Metropolitan - Chambers. (weekend/late night shuttle) J: Parsons/Archer - Broad. Local. (no service weekend/ late night) Z: Broadway Junction - Nassau line - Bay Ridge 95th. Peak direction express between Bwy Jct. and Marcy. Service extended to Parsons/Archer weekend and late night. I actually was thinking about sending brown M to 9 Av if there was not enough demand for further extension, just to fill the void in 4th Avenue. As for the J/Z in this proposal… Hmm let’s experiment with this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share #17 Posted July 24, 2021 On 7/19/2021 at 8:01 AM, mrsman said: What I had proposed earlier was allowing G trains to also serve as a QBL local, but this can only be done as an ADDITIONAL service, not a replacement service I’m actually in favor of having G trains extended to Forest Hills. I didn’t include it in the proposal because I thought that it would receive massive opposition, just like how the Brown M to Brooklyn is receiving such opposition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted July 24, 2021 Share #18 Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) I can definitely see opposition to bringing back the to Forest Hills and the brown M. Both services were not popular before they were cut in 2010. Technically, the was cut from Forest Hills even earlier than that, because Transit cut it to make room for the (they didn’t feel comfortable turning , and at 71st Ave and they didn’t want to run local service past there). Although officially, the was scheduled to run to/from 71st on weekends, it got cut back to Court Square most weekends due to near-endless weekend work. I don’t see how things have changed along the QB corridor that would work in favor of having the back there and definitely not full time like the original service was. Ridership in South Brooklyn heavily favors Midtown, so bring back the old service will not be popular for that reason. Edited July 24, 2021 by T to Dyre Avenue 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsman Posted July 25, 2021 Share #19 Posted July 25, 2021 On 7/24/2021 at 11:18 AM, MTA Researcher said: That’s actually the brightest idea ever, besides the foundation of my proposal. We need more Hillside service as the current F needs the E to assist in Hillside. The proposed H, K trains in your format is even better than what we have today. All right, the E gets less headache not having to go to Brooklyn and Queens; You just helped me eliminate a triple-borough local. Thank you and congratulations on figuring that part out. You are welcome. Many of my deinterlining plans are not pure deinterlinings, as that is somewhat unfeasible. The QBL express is such a busy service that the priority should be to make this a service without downstream interference. If we are stuck with the notion that every station beyond Forest Hills is served by an express train*, then it does make some sense to have three separate QBL express services: Hillside express-QBL express, Hillside local-QBL express, and JC-QBL express. We in fact have something like this today with the differences in <E>, and services. My idea instead of making the Hillside express an occasional train to handle the extra that can't be turned back at JC, to make it a regular line with its own designation. I think this is useful, since 179th may be the end of the subway, but its not the end of Queens. A lot of E Queens bus passengers transfer there, and it would be nice to express them along the Hillside stretch. Now with three separate services, we have to keep them together and not let anything intermix with them, so from Forest Hills down, they all join as a single route along the QBL express, 53rd, and the 8th Ave express, continuing into Brooklyn all the way to Hoyt-Schermerhorn. There, the three services can be split into the three regular services we have today: Fulton local, Fulton express to Lefferts, Fulton express to Far Rockaway. If we allow the services to merge back in together at Euclid, you could have the sevice that you proposed: locals to Lefferts, express to FR, and express to Rockaway Park. Unfortunately, the QBL local will still have some issues - but these are somewhat tolerable. You can push the locals to 6th Ave via 63rd, but you still need some local service to LIC. So in addition to the normal and locals on QBL, you'd need another local service that makes its way to Queens Plaza, either or , each with its own positives and negatives. * It may be a political lift to make 75 Ave, Briarwood, Sutphin, and 169 into local stations, but doing so would allow us to run more QBL locals as well as more. If every existing train on the local will run to 6th Avenue, running locals to 179th will allow for a third service (G or R) that acts in addition to what is there currently, without taking away. If I can fit 30% more trains on the local with a new service pattern, there is a lot that can be done to service LIC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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