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T to Dyre Avenue

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T to Dyre Avenue last won the day on July 5

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  1. Not if SAS Phase 3 runs at only half capacity. Unless there is a second SAS service below 63rd, I don’t foresee a lot of QBL or riders switching from the Lex to the SAS. Though I am in full agreement with making Woodhaven Blvd an express QBL stop, as it would relive Roosevelt and cut out one transfer for the many bus riders who connect to the subway at Woodhaven.
  2. Southbound, leaving Canal, that may be the case, especially because the doesn’t stop at DeKalb. But northbound, everyone crowds onto the first train that comes. Now if it’s the , then it might not be so bad because from what I’ve observed, northbound ’s tend to be noticeably less crowded entering Canal than ’s. I usually get a seat on the at Canal. But if the comes first, then it’ll be SRO leaving Canal (if it isn’t already).
  3. Until an actual, in-system transfer passageway is built, 63rd is not, and will never be an option for transferring from QBL to Lex.
  4. Under the current service operations, northbound and trains arrive at Canal Street in groups of two, so you get an followed right behind by a (or vice versa), followed by a longer wait before the next two trains. Even if the schedule doesn’t call for it, I see it every day. This isn’t something that should be happening regularly, yet it does. There is a delay because you’ve got an and a getting to the junction at the same time on the Brooklyn side, therefore one has to stop and wait till the other is a “safe enough” distance ahead.
  5. I was going to suggest simplifying things by swapping the and in Queens, but it’s still the same number of tph (though then it can be 15 and 10 ) and you’d still have to turn some ’s at Canal due to the sharp curve at City Hall limiting service to 21 tph, as @RR503 posted earlier. As for deinterlining DeKalb, I’m not opposed to it, but the increased amount of transferring at Atlantic or DeKalb for Broadway or 6th Avenue service it would bring, is a concern I have with it. It’s too bad there’s no way to build a new infill station somewhere between DeKalb station and the interlocking with cross-platform transfers between and . At least that would provide some relief for Atlantic and DeKalb. And provide additional service to the MetroTech area.
  6. I’ve taken the up and down the full Broadway express tracks. It is pretty amazing. If upper management would just break out of their bureaucratic inertia, then it would be the same with the . And with more trains per hour.
  7. Probably for the same reason they stopped running the to 179th in 1993. Hillside riders didn’t want to ride on a local all the way through Queens during rush hours, so they bailed on the at Parsons or Union in favor of the . Don’t get me wrong. I would be willing to give the a shot at 179 as a near-term option for relieving terminal ops at Forest Hills. Maybe it would be different with it being on the same trunk line in Manhattan as the . On the other hand, the is limited to 480-foot trains due to the shorter Eastern Division station platforms.
  8. This same thing also happens at Herald Square and 36th Street, Queens, all the time. Seems like the northbound almost always gets to 34th at the same time a northbound or gets there. Same with the northbound and at 36th Street. I’m always seeing northbound ’s and ’s run in bunches of two at Canal, so you get a behind an (or vice versa), then a long wait before the next two trains. Definitely related to dispatching shenanigans at DeKalb.
  9. Agreed. There should be only one line relaying at 71st-Continental if we do RBB. One of the proposal’s selling points is how it would reduce conga lines on the northbound QB local if one of the local routes is moved onto the branch. But if we still have two routes relaying at 71st (i.e., if the is extended or substitutes for a rerouted or ), then that goes right out the window.
  10. Previously, I too was in favor of sending the or down the rebuilt RBB. But over time, I’ve come to believe that extending either of those lines will make them even more unreliable than they already are. The has lots of merges with other lines and often gets rerouted to Chambers St when there’s a problem on QBL. The suffers more from being a very long local route (longer than the ), but has more than its share of merges too, all of which contribute to it being a very unreliable service. Really, any subway line that gets extended onto the RBB shouldn’t continue south of Manhattan. Fortunately, there are several ways it can be done. In the short term (assuming SAS only gets to Phase 2), I’d reroute the to the QBL in place of the and extend the down RBB. - Part of a deinterlined QBL. Runs via 53rd St tunnel and 8th Avenue local. Terminates at World Trade Center. ( V ) - Would function as the second SAS service when Phase 3 comes on line. Runs via 63rd St tunnel and 2nd Ave. Last stop to be determined, depending how far downtown they build SAS. trains on QBL would be carrying mostly air after most of its riders make a mass exodus onto the or at the first available express stop. Extending the down RBB would be like putting the Q53 bus on rails. And, unless one of the existing QBL locals is removed, you’d still have two lines relaying at Continental. And those lines wouldn’t be able to run frequently than now, because they would then have to share the local tracks with the , meaning less service once they merge off QBL. This is a major pitfall of reverse-branching.
  11. The can serve Astoria and the can remain on QBL. I’ve previously suggested doing this as part of deinterlining Broadway. It can still be done even after the and V services are introduced.
  12. I was responding to @Porter’s post about post-Phase 2 service. Of course, a lot of this can be worked on over time. Many of us would like to see the subway system be untangled so that it can run more trains per hour. However it has been said that the introduction of the into the mix, could totally mess it up, due to the ’s poor design of the SAS as a whole. Even if it’s only three or four of the proposed stops in Phase 3 that get built, it’s not such a bad thing to speculate how a (and possibly also a V service via Queens and SAS) would interact with the existing services. As for your plan to deinterline Broadway, the part is a non-starter. As has been previously explained, it will create a new merge at DeKalb and it will result in Brighton riders crowding the for Midtown service. There is really no reason to run the this way. Not when you can simply run both the and via 2nd Avenue, the from Bay Ridge to Astoria and the from Whitehall to Forest Hills (or possibly Howard Beach/Rockaway Park if RBB actually gets rebuilt).
  13. Why not run this V service in place of the ? Then you wouldn’t have to restore the old . Putting the on upper 2nd Avenue would force it, as well the and the to run on very low service frequencies even with CBTC signals. Having the V replace the on QBL would be simpler. And since the already are floating plans to stable trains at Jamaica, why not have a second SAS service coming in from Queens? Both would be stabled there. Well yes, if you keep the on QBL and run the up 2nd Ave, then that would make it difficult to deinterline Broadway. But you don’t have to. Better to have the V replace the on the Queens Blvd local. Then either reroute the to Astoria in place of the (at a comparable frequency), or run the the via Nassau like you suggested and run the as the sole Astoria service (again, on a frequency comparable to the current ). However, with a deinterlined Broadway plus an operational SAS Phase 3, fitting the , and on only two tracks above 63rd might be a tight squeeze. It’s likely that the and would have to run in Manhattan as if they were one service, which would limit the amount of rush hour service each of them can provide in Brooklyn. It’s true that the coming in, will complicate things with deinterlining. But it’s not totally unsolvable. And it would be a crime to spend tens of billions of dollars on SAS Phases 3 and 4, only to be forced into running that part of the line at half-capacity.
  14. Well, yes. But the lady did say she thinks it’ll become a reality “eventually.” She was probably just being nice. On the other hand, when there’s a will, there’s a way. Look how Bloomberg pushed hard for the extension and that became a reality. Though a extension down/alongside Utica would take more than just de Blasio pushing hard for it (which he isn’t, really).
  15. You know that will never happen. This isn’t the first time you’ve responded with this “(so-and-so) riders will have to understand this is about...” thing (I do recall you saying this with regard to Line riders who would see a substantial cut in service to their stations under a hypothetical full express service plan). Those words are not a justification for what will amount to service patterns that will inconvenience many more riders than will benefit. Telling said riders who will be inconvenienced that “they have to understand” sends exactly the wrong message. And that’s exactly the case with this whole setup you’ve proposed. We don’t need to create a new merge at DeKalb Avenue and inconvenience all of South Brooklyn to make the fit on QBL and RBB.

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