Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
metsfan

GOP points out "waste" in Obama stimulus bill.

Recommended Posts

As a Modrate Independent voter, the GOP does have a point on a few items and I do agree some items are pork. These are the items I feel the GOP has some valid points.

 

 

 

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

This is a joke. Why help Hollywood elite? Let Billionaries like Rupert Murdock and non profit agencies help them. GOP is 100% right on this part of the bill.

 

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters. While it be nice for this newest Federal Agency to have it own home, there are more pressing needs right now for using this money. Sharing an office with the FBI Headquarters in nearby Virgina should be ok for now.

 

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.. I am sure Homeland Security can go to Discount Factory outlets like Ikea or even Wal Mart to get office furniture for a much cheaper cost.:)

 

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's. This is needed as the growth of STDS particuarly Herpres has increased in recent years. However this should be a separte bill in an STD/Health Preventation package.

 

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs. • $125 million for the Washington sewer system. Similar to the STD aspect this is a good bill. And also like The STD/CDC propsal these listed and separte '2' propsals should be combined into a single EPA bill.

 

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities. Could not Corporate sponors pay for this?

 

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion. Just like the CDC funding for sex diease funding this is needed but belongs in separte proposal.

 

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities." Why? Belongs in the CDC proposal?

 

 

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction. Belongs in separte bill.

 

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service. Unless this buliding is about to fall apart, this should wait.

 

These earmarks or pork the GOP IMO has a valid point on unneeded monies. However IMO The GOP is wrong on almost eveything else listed including Amtrak. With uncertain over gas prices increasing Amtrak funding so they can buy new trains, fix aging tracks, etc. this can attarct even more riders from their cars and flying on their planes.

This would much cheaper as an alternative while funding is figured out to fixing all of country highways, roads and bridges which many are now in dire need to be fixed.

 

 

There room for compromise.:confused:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As a Modrate Independent voter, the GOP does have a point on a few items and I do agree some items are pork. These are the items I feel the GOP has some valid points.

 

 

 

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

This is a joke. Why help Hollywood elite? Let Billionaries like Rupert Murdock and non profit agencies help them. GOP is 100% right on this part of the bill.

 

This would create thousands of jobs and allow a uch more smooth transition to all digital.

 

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters. While it be nice for this newest Federal Agency to have it own home, there are more pressing needs right now for using this money. Sharing an office with the FBI Headquarters in nearby Virgina should be ok for now.

 

This is needed for streamlining & de-complicating DHS protocol & procedure and would create jobs.

 

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.. I am sure Homeland Security can go to Discount Factory outlets like Ikea or even Wal Mart to get office furniture for a much cheaper cost.:)

 

This isn't just for desks and chairs, it's for lighting security systems everything that isnt part of the structure of the building. & would create jobs and income.

 

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's. This is needed as the growth of STDS particuarly Herpres has increased in recent years. However this should be a separte bill in an STD/Health Preventation package.

 

This has been waiting for 6 years and again would also create jobs.

 

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs. • $125 million for the Washington sewer system. Similar to the STD aspect this is a good bill. And also like The STD/CDC propsal these listed and separte '2' propsals should be combined into a single EPA bill.

 

This is not EPA related it's municipal infrastructure & would create jobs.

 

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities. Could not Corporate sponors pay for this?

 

No, this is for things that have been waiting to be fixed & other issues unrelated to patron sponsor funding.

 

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion. Just like the CDC funding for sex diease funding this is needed but belongs in separte proposal.

 

This would create jobs.

 

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities." Why? Belongs in the CDC proposal?

 

This would decrease health care costs to employers making it easier to provide coverage and in doing so more workers would be hired with the extra $.

 

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction. Belongs in separte bill.

 

This would create hundreds of positions to properly qualified people.

 

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service. Unless this buliding is about to fall apart, this should wait.

 

Again, this has been on hold for a long time & is desperately needed.

 

These earmarks or pork the GOP IMO has a valid point on unneeded monies. However IMO The GOP is wrong on almost eveything else listed including Amtrak. With uncertain over gas prices increasing Amtrak funding so they can buy new trains, fix aging tracks, etc. this can attarct even more riders from their cars and flying on their planes.

This would much cheaper as an alternative while funding is figured out to fixing all of country highways, roads and bridges which many are now in dire need to be fixed.

 

 

There room for compromise.:confused:

 

I see thousands of jobs in there.

 

- A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as an obama supporter, I actually think the republicans have a point.

 

Remember this is not Obama's bill. It's going to go down as his bill, right or wrong (read: wrongly) but it is really Nancy Pelosi's bill and the rest of the Dems. I support the Dems but they spend too much time and money on these side pet projects (national mall, family planning, etc.) when they should be focusing strictly on the economy. The republicans just want to give the wealthy tax breaks because they think it will make them spend.

 

If I was running the show, this is what i'd propose:

 

100% up front and immediate tax deduction on the property to any US Company that opens a manufacturing plant in a major US city (they do not pay taxes on the cost of the property - by that I mean if they make 10 million a year and the plant costs them 1 million, they are taxed on 9 million, not on 10).

 

$1,500 tax credit to anyone who makes under $75,000 a year ($125,000 joint).

 

Raise Alternative Minimum Tax threshold to $250,000 individual ($500,000 joint) but stiffen it so that those hit by it are hit harder.

 

Raise property taxes on second homes 2-3%

 

Raise gasoline tax and use that money toward public transportation

 

Raise tariffs on foreign goods.

 

Reduce availability of entitlement programs...people must demonstrate a wilingness to be productive to qualify for section 8, welfare, etc. (ie no more always unemployed people paying $50 a month for rent)

 

Any lawsuit deemed frivolous by a judge, the plaintiff must pay damages to the defendant (will reduce # of law suits)

 

get OUT of foreign affairs as much as possible to focus on issues here, let Wall St fail, it's going to happen anyway, then let it build back up again with more regulated banking and asset management over time...but keep manufacturing up and reduce dependency on foreign goods.

 

make things more energy efficient and look for sustainable energy alternatives as much as possible. this coupled with the higher fuel tax will reduce driving but make it similarly profitable for gov't meanwhile big oil will sell less gas (=less profits for them because they've been raking in the dough) and if they raise prices demand will drop even more so it boxes them into keeping their prices consistent with demand

 

take steps to reign in the costs of higher education

 

promote research in medical fields to reduce healthcare costs

 

education: reapportion 1% of the budget from the 10% richest school districts evenly to the 25% poorest (in terms of funding).

 

----

 

and to those who think the US can't make a decent car, remember Toyota has more recalls than anyone, and not to mention that outsourcing "saves money" yet even with all the outsourcing you and me still pay more or less the same as what we did before...it's done in the name of bigger margins for the big wigs not for ordinary people like you and me. something that used to cost a dollar to make now gets made for 3c, and where they used to charge $5 for that good they now charge $4.75 and claim that the cheaper foreign labor is what made it possible. That's not really true, it's just a bunch of smoke and mirrors to make some more CEO's some money.

 

when you have wall streeters mkaing 500 million a year and ordinary people scuffling along between 35 and 80K there's a huge disparity and something needs to be fixed. last rule i'd propose: any "bonuses" are limited to the amount of your salary. factory workers don't get bonuses 5x their salary so why should stock analysts or CEO's? its just a way to hide how much they really make from the public when a company says "our CEO makes 2 million a year in salary"...yeah, but 435 million when you add in the bonuses...that ain't right...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
as an obama supporter, I actually think the republicans have a point.

 

Remember this is not Obama's bill. It's going to go down as his bill, right or wrong (read: wrongly) but it is really Nancy Pelosi's bill and the rest of the Dems. I support the Dems but they spend too much time and money on these side pet projects (national mall, family planning, etc.) when they should be focusing strictly on the economy. The republicans just want to give the wealthy tax breaks because they think it will make them spend.

 

If I was running the show, this is what i'd propose:

 

100% up front and immediate tax deduction on the property to any US Company that opens a manufacturing plant in a major US city (they do not pay taxes on the cost of the property - by that I mean if they make 10 million a year and the plant costs them 1 million, they are taxed on 9 million, not on 10).

 

$1,500 tax credit to anyone who makes under $75,000 a year ($125,000 joint).

 

Raise Alternative Minimum Tax threshold to $250,000 individual ($500,000 joint) but stiffen it so that those hit by it are hit harder.

 

Raise property taxes on second homes 2-3%

 

Raise gasoline tax and use that money toward public transportation

 

Raise tariffs on foreign goods.

 

Reduce availability of entitlement programs...people must demonstrate a wilingness to be productive to qualify for section 8, welfare, etc. (ie no more always unemployed people paying $50 a month for rent)

 

Any lawsuit deemed frivolous by a judge, the plaintiff must pay damages to the defendant (will reduce # of law suits)

 

get OUT of foreign affairs as much as possible to focus on issues here, let Wall St fail, it's going to happen anyway, then let it build back up again with more regulated banking and asset management over time...but keep manufacturing up and reduce dependency on foreign goods.

 

make things more energy efficient and look for sustainable energy alternatives as much as possible. this coupled with the higher fuel tax will reduce driving but make it similarly profitable for gov't meanwhile big oil will sell less gas (=less profits for them because they've been raking in the dough) and if they raise prices demand will drop even more so it boxes them into keeping their prices consistent with demand

 

take steps to reign in the costs of higher education

 

promote research in medical fields to reduce healthcare costs

 

education: reapportion 1% of the budget from the 10% richest school districts evenly to the 25% poorest (in terms of funding).

 

----

 

and to those who think the US can't make a decent car, remember Toyota has more recalls than anyone, and not to mention that outsourcing "saves money" yet even with all the outsourcing you and me still pay more or less the same as what we did before...it's done in the name of bigger margins for the big wigs not for ordinary people like you and me. something that used to cost a dollar to make now gets made for 3c, and where they used to charge $5 for that good they now charge $4.75 and claim that the cheaper foreign labor is what made it possible. That's not really true, it's just a bunch of smoke and mirrors to make some more CEO's some money.

 

when you have wall streeters mkaing 500 million a year and ordinary people scuffling along between 35 and 80K there's a huge disparity and something needs to be fixed. last rule i'd propose: any "bonuses" are limited to the amount of your salary. factory workers don't get bonuses 5x their salary so why should stock analysts or CEO's? its just a way to hide how much they really make from the public when a company says "our CEO makes 2 million a year in salary"...yeah, but 435 million when you add in the bonuses...that ain't right...

 

 

 

Perfectly stated commentary my friend in which i agree with most of your ideas and proposals.:tup::cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those "entitlement" programs you speak down about keep people from being homeless and without food. Obviously you've never in your life had to deal with a disability causing you to seek assistance. When you're my age and have emotional & other issues to confront making even the most "routine" job a daunting task, you become glad that there are programs out there.

 

Cutting taxes reduces fed budget size. Giving tax breaks to companies = more exploitable loopholes. Huge tax breaks just for the sake of it doesn't do anything to stimulate the economy or create jobs.

 

Your logic is all wrong there, you just don't seem to understand how things work in reality. Maybe in a perfect world it would work, but since we are far from a perfect situation your plan would simply make things worse. Making life easier for the folks who are currently doing fine = the wrong way to go.

 

- A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Those "entitlement" programs you speak down about keep people from being homeless and without food. Obviously you've never in your life had to deal with a disability causing you to seek assistance. When you're my age and have emotional & other issues to confront making even the most "routine" job a daunting task, you become glad that there are programs out there.

 

Cutting taxes reduces fed budget size. Giving tax breaks to companies = more exploitable loopholes. Huge tax breaks just for the sake of it doesn't do anything to stimulate the economy or create jobs.

 

Your logic is all wrong there, you just don't seem to understand how things work in reality. Maybe in a perfect world it would work, but since we are far from a perfect situation your plan would simply make things worse. Making life easier for the folks who are currently doing fine = the wrong way to go.

 

- A

 

That is absolutely NOT what anything I said is doing. Go back and reread. Cutting entitlement programs for those who should not be entitled. I have friends who are or have been the benefits of these programs. They work their asses off for not that much money and every year get a heaping helping of crap when they have to apply to continue under the program, meanwhile some broke ass do-nothing with 17 kids pays virtually nothing in rent and everything is handed to that person...not exactly "meeting them halfway".

 

what needs to happen is people need to get back to having common sense and learning to be accountable for what they've done. for the rich that means bye bye all the breaks of the Bush years. for the poor that are working and the middle class that means keeping your head down and managing the money you make intelligently..it also means government making sure these people aren't getting killed supporting the rich like the curren system. For the poor that are not working, it means supporting your family off aid, but never relying on aid, and trying to get work to move up and out of that lifestyle. It does not mean becoming a constant charity case because no one is that pathetic.

 

For workers who've been disabled, yes, they deserve benefits. I'm not nor was I ever arguing that.

 

and for businesses, being accountable means BIG pay cuts at the top of the corprate ladders and keeping the middle and lower tiers of the workforce more or less the same. For every executive fired, 10-15 regular workers can keep their jobs. It also means these companies have to invest in the US again and stop outsourcing everything...all outsourcing has done is send money out of the country and the goods are no higher quality nor do we pay any less for them.

 

the problem is the culture and that's something you can't legislate. obama is 100% dead on right when he says people's ATTITUDES need to change. this whole "im out for me and MONEY" crap has got to stop because that is what is responsible for this whole fiasco. this whole everyone thinking "i've got to be rich and work a white collar job" has thrown everything out of balance because even in a society where "everyone is rich" there will still be "poor" people. it's just people's lot in life and sometimes you have to accept it and make the best of what you can. especially the "ordinary rich" - they've been pushing to become super rich and that is one of the biggest reasons we are where we are.

 

cutting taxes on corporations who invest in America beats the hell out of giving them ANY taxpayer money whatsoever. It requires them to do something positive to get any benefit from it. a tax break on building a US plant could come with a stipulation that if it's sold or disposed of within 50 years, the entire taxable amount of the facility is due in taxes that year. The problem is that they can't just write something like that, and that's what "politics" has become...you never heard George Washington or Thomas Jefferson talk about "politics" just "government" and now it has become this joke of a system where people have to F*** with everything and add their little pet projects on. That's where loopholes get created.

 

and as for the current situation, the Republicans are retarded if they think tax cuts alone are going to solve anything. The Democrats are being every bit as stupid because the majority of this country outside the "Bible Belt" LOVES obama, and they are making him look bad by adding these stupid provisions into the bailout bill that have nothing to do with the economy and everything to do with their little pet projects. Because this is going to go down as "his bill" even though it's really not - it belongs to the Dem. Senators and B is just endorsing it - it reflects badly on him when they do this.

 

"Politics" have to go away and become "government" again...probably not going to happen but it goes in line with the required attitude shift. Doing whats best for the country has to again become more important than posturing, trying to make the other party look bad, and doing whatever it takes to get your own agenda in the bill.

 

and as for people who are so worried about the budget deficit, that can be closed substantially once we start getting troops out of the Middle East in an impossible situation and focus on the problems at home. That will reduce a LOT of costs. Now is the wrong time to try and fix the budget deficit...that's something that should be done in more prosperous times. Doing so now is like a guy with a bad back deciding he should really let go of that refrigerator he's holding up when there's somebody directly underneath it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My mom has worked for county and non-profit social improvement programs my entire life plus some years. You can't understand where some of these people come from. You post about trains or busses on a computer with internet etc. Some of these people barely have enough clothes to go out of their house, or have debilitating addictions they need help to overcome the list is endless, and the task is all most hopeless enough to give up on. People only know how to act based on their experiences growing up. If you have poor childhood "life" education, how do you expect to be a good parent, or productive member of society? These are not lazy people with 14 kids because they felt like having sex with no condom. For all you know they got raped by their boyfriend or dad or whatever and are scared for their life and dont even know how to end it. My mom could tell you some stories that would keep you awake at night counting your lucky stars. Yea i have a computer and internet, but it's because some things did go right, and some things that have not gone right haunt me, and will till my grave.

 

I understand that you can't understand where these people are coming from, but you need to realize that the world isn't a straight forward black and white place. There is no black and white, just a big grey area where people can get easily lost, not just lost their way, but lost to society. You may think grow up go to school to go to school to get a job get married have kids & die is life? No, that's called conformity, and it also plays a negative roll putting expectations out there for people who may not fit in with that "plan". Maybe some people are so different from others you think they are crazy. Humanity is not homogeneous, it is heterogeneous. EVERYONE, though being the same on some levels, is TOTALLY different on other levels. You think skin color plays a roll in how well someone can do math? No. It is their life that determines that. When you understand THAT, maybe then you'll have some more compassion, and a broader perspective on things.

 

:)

 

- A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My mom has worked for county and non-profit social improvement programs my entire life plus some years. You can't understand where some of these people come from. You post about trains or busses on a computer with internet etc. Some of these people barely have enough clothes to go out of their house, or have debilitating addictions they need help to overcome the list is endless, and the task is all most hopeless enough to give up on. People only know how to act based on their experiences growing up. If you have poor childhood "life" education, how do you expect to be a good parent, or productive member of society? These are not lazy people with 14 kids because they felt like having sex with no condom. For all you know they got raped by their boyfriend or dad or whatever and are scared for their life and dont even know how to end it. My mom could tell you some stories that would keep you awake at night counting your lucky stars. Yea i have a computer and internet, but it's because some things did go right, and some things that have not gone right haunt me, and will till my grave.

 

I understand that you can't understand where these people are coming from, but you need to realize that the world isn't a straight forward black and white place. There is no black and white, just a big grey area where people can get easily lost, not just lost their way, but lost to society. You may think grow up go to school to go to school to get a job get married have kids & die is life? No, that's called conformity, and it also plays a negative roll putting expectations out there for people who may not fit in with that "plan". Maybe some people are so different from others you think they are crazy. Humanity is not homogeneous, it is heterogeneous. EVERYONE, though being the same on some levels, is TOTALLY different on other levels. You think skin color plays a roll in how well someone can do math? No. It is their life that determines that. When you understand THAT, maybe then you'll have some more compassion, and a broader perspective on things.

 

:)

 

- A

 

But you are generalizing. My point is that these programs exist to give people a chance to get over the difficulties they're in until they can pick themselves up but it gives them time to do that. The point of welfare isn't to support people endlessly forever, it's to give them something until they can get back on their feet and be responsible for themselves.

 

That is the problem. It might sound heartless, but it's not meant to be. People have to take responsibility for their actions, their lives, and themselves. They can't rely on government or others to do it for them. Government should give them a fair shake, keep them going when things get hard, but all of these things are meant to be temporary. Whether or not the people YOU know who use these things are legit is not the point. The point is that there are still a very large number of people abusing these programs, including medicare/medicaid (transferring assets to a family member and playing broke), and THAT is what has to stop. These people make these programs cost the most, too. Because one person on the government teet for 10 years uses way more taxpayer money than 10 people on the teet for 6 months each. The reality is they have to be accountable for themselves and find work, whatever it is they do, get paid to do it. Being poor is not an obstacle to finding work...there are many poor in this city and country that struggle to work but eventually find and keep jobs and are very productive, take advantage of tax breaks (legally), and save what little they can and gradually work their way up...those that rely on the gov't to sustain themselves should take a lesson from these people.

 

and i am not sitting here assuming anything about the way those people "should" live their lives nor has everything in my life been perfect either so don't make assumptions...also right now i WORK in business and see first hand every day the kind of greed and waste that has caused this mess around me so I do know what I'm talking about, I'm not just another message boarder offering opinions "out of his comfort zone" so like I said don't assume...but anyway the reality is at the end of the day, if these people lived in the world all by themselves they'd have the same basic needs of food clothing and shelter, and if there was no government to help them they'd be all on their own sink or swim. Sometimes when you throw some people a lifeline they rely on it, and that is the whole problem Obama is talking about. Those who abuse these programs being too selfish/entitled to get off the programs and fend for themselves. Corporate pricks who can't accept the consequences of bad business decisions begging for taxpayer dollars. Politicians who want to keep things the way they are because they like their little thought experiment cliques in Washington or how they can get their agendas through with bribery and backslapping. All that was TRIED, and FAILED. The attitude of Entitlement doesn't do anything except piss people off around whoever is acting entitled, and it's got to go. A heaping helping of humble pie is in order for a lot of people, and when they do that and "man up" and accept responsibility for themselves then that is when things will recover.

 

Like I said I fully support Obama, but if the attitudes don't change he can push all the policy he wants through, but whenever his presidency is up in 4 or 8 years, the next guy will probably just undo it all as has been alternating the past 4 presidencies. Clinton undoes HW. W undoes Clinton. Now B undoes W. Not really moving forward yet. Obama wants to, but it's a huge question of whether the corrupt scoundrels in Washington will let him or get in his way every step of the way

 

There will always be poor and there is nothing to do about that because someone will always have less money than someone else. what has to be done is help the middle class as they are the drivers of the economy. upper class salaries need to be lowered and things need to come down in price. that will make things more affordable for the poor, and fix the huge disparity between the mean (average) and median (50th %ile) salary in the US. what i mean by that is if you have 3 people, one makes $20K/yr, one makes $50K/yr, and one makes $140K/yr mean salary is $70K/yr, median is $50K. The larger that difference, the more poorly the wealth is distributed. When you have business men making $400 million a year, that really screws things up.

Edited by SubwayGuy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But you are generalizing. My point is that these programs exist to give people a chance to get over the difficulties they're in until they can pick themselves up but it gives them time to do that. The point of welfare isn't to support people endlessly forever, it's to give them something until they can get back on their feet and be responsible for themselves.

 

The people have a responsibility to help others.

 

We are the only country who doesnt think this way in the -world-.

 

They seem to be doing ok.....

 

- A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.