Collin

I don't think removing every merge is necessary. Swapping the and tunnels would remove the Queens Plaza merge, but the 36th Street merge would be with the less frequent local services. The locals can also hold at 36th Street which is less disruptive than the express trains stopping in the middle of the local station. Keep in mind how QB was originally designed to operate. All express service was to go via 53rd to either 6th or 8th. Local service was to go via Crosstown. Later a connection to Broadway was added to allow local station customers a one seat ride to Manhattan. Prior to the 63rd Street Connector in 2001, it continued to operate like this. While it was more efficient because the express and local services never interacted, it meant that less trains went into Manhattan than are able to now. The plan discussed in the other thread would fully separate the local and express, except when the and run together in Manhattan. All express trains would go via 53rd, and all local trains would go via 60th or 63rd. It might even be possible to bring back service to QB with CBTC operational.

But would they be able to swap all the R46's in 207th? I doubt it, so they'd have R46's, R160's, and R179's. So that would be worse for uniformity at 207th, but Coney Island would only have R46's and R68's.

So then what would go to Jamaica to replace the Siemens sets there?

Why would they want all the Siemens sets at 207th?

Maybe after this pandemic is over, the railfan community can help the MTA get some more revenue by riding the subway for fun. Actually this would be more effective on the LIRR/MNCR lines where the fares are higher. I'd be down for it.

I don't know why people would be opposed to a plan that averted a full 18 month closure, still accomplished all the announced objectives, saved taxpayers money, and was completed ahead of schedule and under budget. Now the techniques learned in this project can be applied to future ones to make the system better.

I don't think having the switch routes late nights and weekends is a big deal. It would be no different than the going via tunnel overnight. As for the , all I'm saying is they'd likely have the capacity on the QB local tracks with CBTC. Whether it actually happens depends on whether there's actually demand for it and whether the equipment is available. It would make more sense with the on 63rd because that would require a double transfer to access the from a local station.

I think it was a combination of route consistency, and giving the a more desirable route. They might've wanted to always have one route serve stations from 21st Street Queensbridge through 57th Street. I think previously it had been several different services depending on time of day. If they had kept the on 53rd and sent the to 63rd, then I think even fewer people would've used the . In 2001 that made sense, but now it's 19 years later so it makes sense to reevaluate. If the express go via 53rd, and the local go via 63rd and 60th respectively, then the local and express services never merge while in Queens. It might even be possible with CBTC to have the run to Forest Hills again, and replace that with a 2nd Ave route when Phase 3 opens.

When the R211's start to be delivered, I think they will first go to Pitkin and 207th, increasing the spare factor back to what it should be. After that, the should be made full length, with the 480 foot R179's sent to ENY for additional service, or Coney Island to lengthen the to 480 feet. So this really is only a temporary problem. It will definitely be confusing in the meantime having different train lengths on the .

I think the appeal is partial de-interlining of QB. The express trains would no longer have the 36th Street merge. However, they tried that back in 2001 when testing service patterns to use with the then new 63rd Street Connector. The first test was as follows: Jamaica Center-QB EXP-53rd-8th LCL 179th-QB EXP-53rd-6th LCL 179th-QB LCL-Crosstown 71st-QB LCL-60th-Bway LCL 71st-QB LCL-63rd-6th LCL (signed as ) That didn't work, so the next test was: Jamaica Center-QB EXP-53rd-8th LCL 179th-QB EXP-63rd-6th LCL Court Square-Crosstown 71st-QB LCL-60th-Bway LCL 71st-QB LCL-53rd-6th LCL This became the actual service pattern. The dilemma was which service would get to stay on the more desirable 53rd Street corridor, and which one would be relegated to the less desirable 63rd Street corridor. I think the decision was to send the there so that local station customers could get a one seat ride to 53rd which would better balance out the loading between local and express. The problem with this is it created multiple merges. The new service had to share track with the , then the , and finally the . I think the benefit of having a local service go via 53rd might not be all that great. The main benefit of 53rd as opposed to 63rd is that there's a transfer to Lexington. The other local service, the already provides access to Lex, and it's better because it goes to 59th which offers both local and express service as opposed to just local. As for making the switch now, I'd say try it for some amount of time. The partial de-interlining of the express services could allow for 33+ tph with CBTC that might not be possible otherwise. If it works, make it permanent, and if it doesn't work, then switch back to the old service pattern. It should be noted that the will still have to run via 63rd late nights and weekends because of the not running.

Wow that is quite the plan. Basically an IND Second System. I wonder where the money would come from for it. I still think there should be no local service going out past Forest Hills on QB. Many of the people using the Archer stations are already slogging it on the bus for a long time. They're just going to transfer to the express.

There were 272 combined R32 and R42. There are 318 R179's, and they're more reliable, so even more are actually available at any given time. Is it really a surprise that the R32's are retired?

I wonder if there's any way within the existing infrastructure to allow more service without significant reductions to local service. I think the current limiting factor for the is capacity on the Williamsburg Bridge, so that would leave capacity available on the QB and 6th Ave local tracks to add more service. I just wonder how much capacity is left, both without CBTC, and when CBTC is installed, and if it would be enough to add another 6th Avenue local route that ran to Church Avenue. This would greatly improve service south of Church because most if not all rush hour trains would go express, and maybe even allow for reverse peak or mid day express service. Customers at local stations north of Church would have trains that were less crowded since they didn't pick up passengers all the way from Stillwell.

Well there aren't many crowds now. I'm sure they're fine. The ran R68's for years. The only line that can run them but doesn't work with 75 footers is the .

I think there should be provisions to add a stop if the land were to be further developed and people actually living there.

I don't know when this will end or if the worst is over. Everything has been so much worse than I even imagined it would be. If the MTA has figured out how to adequately protect their workers, then that is a huge step towards reopening the city. They need to be running regular service as more people start returning to work.

I like the idea of repurposing Fulton and Broad as Second Avenue stations. While it doesn't serve as wide of a geographic area, it gives much better connections to the rest of the system. A renovated Chambers Street station would be perfect for the Transit Museum. With 4 tracks and Spanish Solution platforms, they could expand the exhibit even more. Store the rest of the museum fleet in the tunnels between Canal and Essex Street. For the Jamaica Line redesign, a new underground portion with consolidated stops would greatly speed up service by removing stations and the sharp curves. Also, it would be much faster to Lower Manhattan, and even midtown via the Fulton express. I would also design the Norwood Ave station to be a temporary terminal with crossovers so that the new underground portion could operate during weather events that limit service to underground only. The being the Fulton local service wouldn't be a problem either. It would be the same number of stops from Hoyt Schermerhorn as the to the next station where they have a transfer which is Cortlandt Street/Chambers Street. Stay on the 2 more stops to Canal Street, and you get a transfer to the which the don't have.

The other crunch would be service from Queens Boulevard into Manhattan. I think the would need to be increased to 15 tph with the trains that can't fit on the Williamsburg Bridge terminating at 2nd Avenue and using full length trains (replicating the ).

I was trying to avoid having 3 services share the same track, but if each service ran 8 tph, it would be totally possible. That would still probably be a service cut for the and , but would still give through service for 2nd Ave which is an improvement. Obviously it would be the orange . For the Astoria shuttle, it would still be able to switch out sets by doing a reverse move in the tunnel to move between Queensboro Plaza and Queens Plaza. So my updated G.O. is: Station and Track Construction and Upgrades ALL TIMES 6 months beginning June 1st, 2020 To accommodate new service patterns associated with the Second Avenue Subway, the 57th Street 7th Avenue station will be expanded and upgraded. While most of the construction can occur with the station still open, an extended, full closure is still required. During that time, the following service changes will be in effect. 49th Street and 5th Avenue 59th Street stations will be closed. will make all local stops in Manhattan and terminate at Times Square 42nd Street, running via tunnel and Lower Manhattan during late nights. will operate via the between DeKalb Avenue and 47th 50th Streets Rockefeller Center, via the between 47th 50th Streets Rockefeller Center and Lexington Avenue 63rd Street, and be signed as . will operate between Bay Ridge 95th Street and Times Square 42nd Street only (Whitehall Street late nights) will operate at all times between Astoria Ditmars Boulevard and Lexington Avenue 59th Street. will be extended to Forest Hills 71st Avenue at all times except late nights. will be extended to Forest Hills 71st Avenue on weekdays only to provide extra local service on Queens Boulevard.

They were running all trains local. I think they made the change to half local and half express because they've been able to increase service in recent days, so there's enough trains to have both local and express service, and maintain acceptable headways at local station. Trains are running every 20 minutes both local to Lefferts and express to Far Rockaway, so on average that's service every 10 minutes at express stations and every 20 minutes at local stations. Previously they were only running trains every 20 minutes total, so they had to go all local or else there would be 40 minute gaps at local stations. There already were at stations out past Rockaway Boulevard. Hopefully they can get the running again soon, but they'll probably still be running Lefferts trains local for a while, just as they did before the was suspended.

The transit museum could be relocated somewhere else. I think there should be an extra service on Fulton as it has 4 tracks but operates at less than 50% capacity. There was something on Vanshnookenraggen about having the replace the as the Fulton local. The would run express to Broadway Junction, then connect to the BMT Jamaica Line. The rationale for this was to speed up service from the outer portion of the Jamaica Line. It would also serve both lower and midtown Manhattan since you'd just stay on the train to get to midtown. The and would serve the inner portion of the line with one going to Broadway Junction and the other to Metropolitan Ave because that plan also assumed that Second Avenue services would replace the over the Manhattan Bridge. The would become a downtown shuttle between Delancey Street Essex Street and Broad Street, but rush hour service could continue to run via Williamsburg. I do have several issues with this idea. One is that the Nassau Street line would see even lower ridership and it could lead to abandonment. Another is the fact that the would be a much slower than the , leading to people crowding the express, and customers at local station being unhappy. I would rather have a Second Avenue service run via Fulton local all the way to Euclid, with the running express and taking over Lefferts. Then the could run to both sides of the Rockaways, eliminating the need for a full time shuttle. As for the Jamaica Line, it's certainly a dinosaur and needs improvement. I'd look at stop consolidation, and a reroute of the line between Broadway Junction and Cypress Hills to eliminate the sharp curves. The running there could be explored at a later time, and that would also allow for the , possibly changed back to the to run via Culver local so the could go express.

I'm sure they have many cars of all the different models parked indefinitely until service increases again.

Station and Track Construction and Upgrades ALL TIMES 6 months beginning June 1st, 2020 To accommodate new service patterns associated with the Second Avenue Subway, the 57th Street 7th Avenue station will be expanded and upgraded. While most of the construction can occur with the station still open, an extended, full closure is still required. During that time, the following service changes will be in effect. 49th Street and 5th Avenue 59th Street stations will be closed. will make all local stops in Manhattan and terminate at Times Square 42nd Street, running via tunnel and Lower Manhattan during late nights. will operate as a shuttle between 96th Street 2nd Avenue and Lexington Avenue 63rd Street. Transfer across the platform to the for continuing service. will operate between Bay Ridge 95th Street and Times Square 42nd Street only (Whitehall Street late nights) will operate at all times between Astoria Ditmars Boulevard and Lexington Avenue 59th Street. will replace service in Brooklyn, operating local at all times from Prospect Park to Brighton Beach and extended to Coney Island Stillwell Avenue. Trains will terminate at 145th Street, Manhattan except for rush hour trips to Bedford Park Boulevard. will be extended to Forest Hills 71st Avenue at all times except late nights. will be extended to Forest Hills 71st Avenue on weekdays only to provide extra local service on Queens Boulevard.

It was posted on Vanshnookenraggen a while back having Second Avenue services replace the over the Manhattan Bridge. But the current plan does not allow for a connection to the Manhattan Bridge from Second Avenue. Phases 3 and 4 really need to be rethought since they don't allow for Second Avenue to tie into the existing network. I think it should be built with the station locations unchanged from what they currently are, but with better connections to the rest of the network. I used some of their ideas, and made my own changes to them. I think that when Phase 1, 2, and 3 are built with a 2 track line, the Second Avenue services should replace the over the Manhattan Bridge, and the reinstated to run from Forest Hills, via QB LCL, via 53rd, 6th Ave LCL, to Church Ave via Culver LCL. This would allow the to go express at least during weekdays. The should run from 125th Street and via West End in Brooklyn (Brighton LCL if de-interlining). A different service that I'll call will run from Forest Hills, via QB LCL, Second Ave, then via Brighton EXP. This would be a part time service not running overnight, and would replace the in Queens. To allow Broadway to run at full capacity, 57th Street 7th Avenue would be reconfigured so that both local and express trains could either terminate there, or continue to either 2nd Avenue or Astoria without causing merging problems. The normal service pattern would have the terminate there while the other three would keep their current service pattern. I'm envisioning something similar to 145th Street on CPW. With a 4 track line from 55th Street south, there would be two additional services added down to Hanover Square. A subway to Red Hook has been spoken of, usually the . However, 2nd Avenue would be better lined up for a new tunnel to Red Hook with a stop on Governor's Island. After Red Hook it could continue and connect with the 4th Avenue 9th Street complex (transfer, not a track connection). I also think 2nd Avenue would connect well with the Montague Street Tunnel, allowing it to tie in with DeKalb and the rest of the BMT. Vanshnookenraggen also proposed connecting it into Fulton Street via Court Street (Transit Museum would need to be relocated). They had the going on Fulton, but I think it should be the 2nd Avenue route instead. An IND Worth Street Line was also discussed here, and I have a different idea for how to use it. Instead of connecting to Myrtle Ave, it should run to Brooklyn Navy Yard, then it could connect with the , and replace the Franklin Avenue before connecting into the Brighton Line and continuing down it.

I think what causes the long dwell times is people trying to cram onto the train rather than waiting for the next one, and not letting people off the train first. If the trains are running less than 2 minutes apart, people won't feel the need to hold doors since the next train will be there so soon. The Victoria Line in London has CBTC rated for 40 tph that actually runs 36. While I don't think that's possible with interlined services, 32-33 each on local and express might be doable. That would still take the wait time between trains under 2 minutes.