Amiri the subway guy

On 5/13/2024 at 9:47 PM, Amiri the subway guy said:

Here’s my plan

 Hamilton Grange 145th Street Manhattan - Utica Avenue king plaza Brooklyn 2nd Avenue express/Fulton Street Local New lower 2nd avenue express tracks would be build for this and then they rise up at 55th street and the  they would be extended to a new tunnel in Brooklyn connecting to the  at Hoyt Street and then running to Utica Avenue on a brand new subway line down Utica Avenue. By having the both  run local on Fulton Street you would get decent one seat rides. Note the  would run local in lower manhattan during weekends and late nights when the  and  aren’t running 

 3rd Avenue/2nd Avenue Local Fordham Plaza Bronx -  Hanover Square Manhattan so a new 3rd Avenue line would be built in the Bronx with the existing 2nd Avenue local tracks there the  and  would be extended to Fordham plaza and the  would run local in 2nd Avenue and terminating at lower manhattan. Note the    would be a weekday only  route weekends late nights use  

 

 Northern Blvd/2nd Avenue Express Williamsburg Local Bayside Bell Boulevard Queens - Bushwick Wilson  Avenue Brooklyn This new line would start off at Northern West queens before becoming express starting at utopia Parkway and then a new tunnel would connect these tracks to the 2nd Avenue express tracks and then Grand Street it would split off to form a new subway line at Williamsburg Northern Brooklyn before heading to Wilson Avenue Bushwick. Note: The  runs local on its entire route during weekends and late nights when the  aren’t running  

 

 Northern Blvd/2nd Avenue local 

Utopia Parkway queens- Hanover Sqaure  Manhattan 

This re routed subway would start off as the local tracks of the northern Blvd line at utopia parkway with some provisions for a  to be extended via northern Blvd local. The tracks would connect to a new tunnel to the 2nd Avenue local tracks and run down to terminate at lower manhattan Hanover square Note:  doesn’t operate during weekends or late nights use the   

 

 

 

 

21 hours ago, MTA Researcher said:

Not sure how this will work, but one problem I’m seeing is  express and  local on Fulton St?

 

That would count as a merge, thus delaying the trains… It would be best to do  via 8 Av/Fulton St Express and  local in Fulton St OR substitute  for  in being the second8 Av/Fulton St Express thus no need to close 50 St upper level under the latter.

Allow me to explain these proposals. By expanding the proposed 125th street crosstown line to go up to further north Harlem at 145th Street would add in a corridor and connection to East Manhattan it would also feature a transfer to the  at 137th Street city college. 
Next seeing how Fulton Street was always used to 8th Avenue service, I feel it’s best for both the  to run local on Fulton Street to minimize backlash and allow for improved timing on the local stations. Then the  goes to Utica Avenue to fill in the gap of the lack of transit.  Next for 3rd Avenue line, I wanted this to be a 4 track line but seeing how that would be too expensive to build 3 tracks line served by the  (note  is 2nd Avenue local) would be the better alternative giving central Bronx the long overdue replacement for the demolished 3rd avenue el.  Now the primary goal of the Northern Blvd line  (Both 2nd Avenue services) in queens is to not just help build a subway to better manage the growth in Northern western Queens to help reduce crowding on the    line. This route would run at a close proximity to the current flushing line, that way the two 2nd Avenue services could serve as crowd control for not just flushing but at Grand Central Station. For Williamburg northern Brooklyn I figured sending the  down to Bushwick Wilson Avenue would help better balance the loads of traffic on the  and  and give riders a new option to the east side via 2nd avenue.  Lastly the reason why the  are weekday only routes and only terminate at lower Manhattan is because I figured that ridership will be lower on weekends and late nights then weekdays so the two extra services probably won’t be needed and they isn’t anywhere left in Brooklyn that I see necessary for them to go. 

6 minutes ago, MTA Researcher said:

Not sure how this will work, but one problem I’m seeing is  express and  local on Fulton St?

 

That would count as a merge, thus delaying the trains… It would be best to do  via 8 Av/Fulton St Express and  local in Fulton St OR substitute  for  in being the second8 Av/Fulton St Express thus no need to close 50 St upper level under the latter.

True but seeing how Fulton Street was always used to 8th Avenue service and the 2nd Avenue service would basically be foreign to them I felt that having both  run express in Brooklyn would cause huge backlash at the local stations as it’s basically feeling like “forcing thousands to learn a completely new language in commutes with forced transfers unless you could run enough  to make it the negative minimum, but still the question is would people really want to transfer. PS wouldn’t the  to Lefferts Blvd be too long and awkward at it’s another loop into queens?
 

Initially the 3rd Avenue line I proposed in the Bronx was going be 4 tracks with the  being express on weekdays but local on weekends and late nights. And the  being the weekday only local that doesn’t operate during overnight hours and weekends. But I staled back to it being 3 tracks with the middle track reserved for either emergencies or potential peak way express service. 
 

Git any feedback for the other parts of my proposals any recommendations?

Here’s my plan

 Hamilton Grange 145th Street Manhattan - Utica Avenue king plaza Brooklyn 2nd Avenue express/Fulton Street Local New lower 2nd avenue express tracks would be build for this and then they rise up at 55th street and the  they would be extended to a new tunnel in Brooklyn connecting to the  at Hoyt Street and then running to Utica Avenue on a brand new subway line down Utica Avenue. By having the both  run local on Fulton Street you would get decent one seat rides. Note the  would run local in lower manhattan during weekends and late nights when the  and  aren’t running 

 3rd Avenue/2nd Avenue Local Fordham Plaza Bronx -  Hanover Square Manhattan so a new 3rd Avenue line would be built in the Bronx with the existing 2nd Avenue local tracks there the  and  would be extended to Fordham plaza and the  would run local in 2nd Avenue and terminating at lower manhattan. Note the    would be a weekday only  route weekends late nights use  

 Northern Blvd/2nd Avenue Express Williamsburg Local Bayside Bell Boulevard Queens - Bushwick Wilson  Avenue Brooklyn This new line would start off at Northern West queens before becoming express starting at utopia Parkway and then a new tunnel would connect these tracks to the 2nd Avenue express tracks and then Grand Street it would split off to form a new subway line at Williamsburg Northern Brooklyn before heading to Wilson Avenue Bushwick. Note: The  runs local on its entire route during weekends and late nights when the  aren’t running  

 Northern Blvd/2nd Avenue local 

Utopia Parkway queens- Hanover Sqaure  Manhattan 

This re routed subway would start off as the local tracks of the northern Blvd line at utopia parkway with some provisions for a  to be extended via northern Blvd local. The tracks would connect to a new tunnel to the 2nd Avenue local tracks and run down to terminate at lower manhattan Hanover square Note:  doesn’t operate during weekends or late nights use the   

On 10/25/2023 at 1:47 AM, TMC said:

We do, actually, from tons of different angles.

Oh really and where is that?

12 hours ago, TMC said:

So true. If "all riders can agree on this" was the metric used for transit planning, nothing would improve substantially for everyone as a whole, but maybe a few individuals. 

I hope your aware that the MTA is not a private community for fun and games and that they have to know what the people want not what you want 

4 minutes ago, MTA Researcher said:

Heck I don’t even agree that  going from Astoria - Whitehall is even a good setup, mostly because of the long deadhead to/from Whitehall.

 

Since 2 Av is flawed (meaning no express between 125 - 72 St); I feel like having Broadway Exp go there while Queens gets abysmal midtown local service is just a waste… maybe I’m not seeing something that all are seeing….

 

Since we are now in ridership topic; let’s calculate and compare Astoria and QBL residents in numbers vs 2 Av residents.

 

Which is densely populated; Astoria and QBL combined or 2 Av?

The problem is that we don’t have enough data to see how service on Broadway really runs 

1 hour ago, TMC said:

Pretty impossible, lots of expansion is dependent on de-interlining to make sense from a cost/benefit perspective. 

Really bro? That comment makes absolutely zero f**king sense once so ever. Expansion is a complete separate issue from these so called “merges”. I already fought that deinterlining is a stupid pipe dream but to claim that we cannot expand the subway system all because of a few merges is a stupid and retarded excuse! So according to your logic, we should just cancel the 2nd avenue project all because the  merges with the  and will merge with the future ? Or the Utica avenue and Rockway branches studies should just be burned because those respective routes merge with each other? mAkE “CoMPlEtE SEsNe”!🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️(Sarcasm)

1 hour ago, TMC said:

Pretty impossible, lots of expansion is dependent on de-interlining to make sense from a cost/benefit perspective. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=XZxzJGgox_E&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo

Could you guy think of something without deinterlining? None of these plans make sense 

1 minute ago, Nitro said:

The  is not going to be eliminated due to NIMBYs in Richmond Hill & Woodhaven complaining about the lack of "fair service" Unless there is an extreme budget cut.

The AirTrain & is owned by the airport itself and should not be made free. That's socialism.

Most of public transportation isn't free. Maybe the subway should be free, that would just encourage turnstile jumpers to do jump the turnstiles even more despite the multiple busts of these guys that I've seen on the subway by the NYPD. The Staten Island Railway loses $500 Million dollars annually because of this shit. Your fares go to the salary of the bus operator and/or train crews & to fixing the station. Not your fantasy ideas or your leisure.

That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to them him

Any one else here?

28 minutes ago, Chris89292 said:

Yes because some of your ideas are just ridiculous and/or won’t happen anytime, express tracks on the existing stations, come on now let’s be real here, reviving the  seems ridiculous at this point

Yes I’ve mostly accepted that. Me and some of the other railfans had big dreams and ideas for the 2nd Avenue line, but looking at the areas now I could safely say perhaps we all bite more than we could chew. I still wanna run the  up 3rd avenue Gun Hill Road up the Bronx and the  up on 125th street crosstown west Harlem to 153rd street. 

1 hour ago, randomnewyorker23 said:

I feel like they should make it four tracked, including the existing portion

Express stations:

125th

96th

72nd

42nd

14th

Houston St

Hanover Sq

they also should extend the line into the Bronx and Brooklyn, maybe even a branch into Queens

It could also be an opportunity to revive the , but obviously not in that color.

Before the  was revived there were fanmade plans to revive it via 2nd avenue

Yeah I would post on the proposal page but unfortunately it turn into a war zone 

17 minutes ago, TMC said:

That’s not how discussions work, you can’t just defend yourself for a few rounds, then throw everything away under the disguise of “WeLl It’S mY oPiNiOn” when you realize the other party is correct and you can’t respond back. 

YOURE WRONG! I Was literally trying to stop this petty argument 

7 minutes ago, randomnewyorker23 said:

I know, the reasoning was that one line (not service) was serving 3 branches

I saw another one that left the  and  alone (in Brooklyn at least), introduced the  as a QBL local and knocked the  to Astoria.

The  wouldn’t change much.

Meh, still not really the best idea. I feel like deinterlining is a pipe dream. Anyways do you got any ideals for a 2nd avenue proposal 

4 minutes ago, randomnewyorker23 said:

last night i saw a video where 8th avenue was deinterlined. for some reason, the  and  are completely removed from Brooklyn and Queens, terminating at WTC, while the  and  take their place. But then the  serves JFK twice.

it’s a awful idea that makes no sense

Hey guys I’m in a debate with TMC on if deinterlining is a good idea, do any of you agree with me? 

3 hours ago, TMC said:

In the case of the  they f**ked up at the same time they shouldn’t have listened to the community. The plan was to cut service altogether, and cut service down to 8 TPH, instead of turning s into s, for a full 12 TPH of local service on the Nassau/Bway-Bklyn/Jamaica Lines. 
 

In the case of the shuttle, it was in such bad condition that abandoning it could have made sense, but not really, as rebuilding it in the future would be expensive. So, the MTA had good intentions, but followed judgement.

 

I feel like you’re cherry-picking bad examples

Look I have my opinions and you got your opinions ok? I’ll just leave it as that

5 hours ago, TMC said:

See, but a system that is good at those things is also one that you have to be an idiot not to ride, so my point stands. 
 

5-6 minutes on a branch is bad, 3 minutes is good but likely unattainable. There is no branch that is scheduled to run every 3 minutes, and the screenshots displayed in your video showed the  running every 5-6 minutes. I did use facts and analysis, I know how often every train runs, and how that affects capacity. 
 

This is incorrect, if you look at ridership data and peak loading guidelines, where the Lexington Ave Expresses hit crush load between 86th Street and 42nd Street. The stations along the White Plains Rd and Jerome Avenue Lines have mediocre ridership figures for the built environment they are located in, meaning the source of crowding is not the Bronx, but the UES and UWS. 
 

I will also compare other continents to our system, because they do better and we have a lot to learn from the outside world, rather than make excuses about how “NYC is different so X and Y doesn’t work”. Everything that works elsewhere works here, it’s all about application. 
 

I don’t see what you’re trying to say here. If anything this is better because it removes the political obstacles necessary to put this plan forward. Hyper-localization is a problem in NYC, where decisions on citywide matters, such as subway service are left up to communities, not experts who are actually much more sympathetic to de-interlining (yes, those exist within the MTA’s upper ranks). And this is why nothing gets done. 
 

Most terminals can handle 20 TPH, with few exceptions that can be sorted out. If you’re train is getting stuck at Wakefield, with its measly 8-10 TPH of  service, that’s a dispatching error, not a hard capacity limit. Dispatching and Terminal Ops really need to be cleaned up in order to soak up extra capacity.

Then why did the Franklin avenue shuttle was rebuild? Why was the  kept? Community Opposition! 

4 hours ago, TMC said:

This is horribly produced, and extremely incorrect. 

- The first point about one-seat rides is wrong. The subway is not designed to “serve the people” in the way you describe. That is not the point of transit. The point of public transit is not to make literally everyone feel perfectly accommodated with a personal ball scratch, such as the status of a one-seat ride. The point of public transit is rather to make so that only people who are stupid will not ride transit. If you don’t ride transit? Then great, you pay up the $23 for congestion pricing into Midtown and Lower Manhattan and then pay for parking in a garage. Either way, it’s a win, considering the vast majority of New Yorkers know there is not enough space for more cars on the streets of Manhattan, especially as we begin pedestrianizing and adding bus priority, reducing private vehicle capacity (which is a great thing). 
 

- Your second point about the IRT already running very frequently is also not very strong. You show the 2 as running every 5-6 minutes (which is okay by NYC shit-operations standards), which is absolutely terrible compared to the level of demand along Broadway-7th Avenue. Bway-7th Ave’s express tracks only run up to 24 TPH, and the IRT Lexington Avenue Line’s express tracks also run only 24 TPH. These should be running 30 TPH, as the Midtown trunks were overcrowded pre-COVID (and they very well could be more crowded in the future, should we fix other operational aspects of the system, such as off-peak frequency, the important thing is we know the potential of these trunk lines is woefully inadequate). This is only achievable through de-interlining, CBTC does not help. 
 

- You mention several wrong assumptions about 149th Street. You mention that there is a strong preference for the East Side of Manhattan, but that’s not really true. There is a fair amount of people who do prefer East Side service, but the vast majority of NYC’s workforce and destinations clusters around Times Square, radiating outward, with Grand Central serving as another large destination for riders, slightly smaller than Times Square. Bway-7th Avenue and Lexington Avenue are almost equal ridership-wise, 1.1M vs. 1.2M daily respectively. The ridership generators for both lines are not in the Bronx, where if you look at each individual station, they have pretty mediocre ridership figures for the most part. Lex gets its ridership from the UES, one of the densest urban neighborhoods in the country, if not the densest. Bway-7th Avenue gets its ridership from the slightly less dense UWS and Harlem. I looked at the photo you provided, as well as several videos, and I couldn’t find a single  at 149th Street-Grand Concourse that was egregiously overcrowded as stated in the video. If anything, the crowding you perceived was due to the shitfest operations caused by interlining, not the line being overloaded with passengers. 149th Street also can be expanded to handle additional transfer loads… like literally any other interchange station. Bank in London was recently renovated with a new platform to assist with transfer loads. If people are too lazy to walk up stairs, I don’t have a problem, as long as they pay their congestion charge (they’ll get tired of traffic eventually and revert back to the subway if they do choose to be that stupid).

 

- The Harlem Shuttle is a good thing, it’s either that or shutting down the line north of 135th completely. Both of which, I would agree with, because a grand total of 7000 riders combined at those stops is just not worth the trouble of shitty service (by global standards). If the MTA had balls, they’d make these kinds of changes without notifying the public, like how the rest of the world does it. Only after, will information be provided to assist riders in making changes to their journey. 
 

- Over-serving a line is not an issue, running trains is cheap, infrastructure is costly. If trains aren’t full, nuclear-TOD is the solution (although on the topic of Jerome, this would cause capacity issues in Manhattan, because, like I said, the Midtown trunks, especially Lexington Avenue, are overcrowded). Most lines in NYC are actually already over-served by your standards. South Brooklyn struggles with underfull trains, even at pitifully low frequencies. Does this mean we can’t increase service? No, because we would under-serve the core, which is worse than over-serving a branch. 
 

 

 

It is clear that you care nothing for people of New York City.  I thought we settled this on Reddit. “The point of public transit is rather to make so that only people who are stupid will not ride transit.” *Bullshit!! Just complete BULLSHIT*!!!! The true purpose is this The MTA’s provision of safe, clean, efficient public transportation is the lifeblood of the New York City area, one of the world’s major economic hubs. It opens up employment opportunities for millions of area residents, linking them to jobs miles from their homes. It revives old neighborhoods and gives rise to new business corridors. It links millions of residents and visitors to cultural, educational, retail, and civic centers across the region. https://new.mta.info/about-us/the-mta-network. 
  
 

Then you claim that 5-6 minutes is bad? WRONG!!! The wait times on the platforms is only 3 minutes. As I was making that video I used fact based information and analysis unlike delusional deinterlining advocates that throw a tantrum if theirs trains are not every 1 minute. 

You are a former who knows nothing about the NYC Subway system. A huge chuck of Lexington Avenue service is *FROM BRONX* interlining has absolutely nothing to do this. Now you’re trying to compare an entirely different continent to here? That there is a useless strawman argument. 

“If people are too lazy to walk up stairs, I don’t have a problem, as long as they pay their congestion charge (they’ll get tired of traffic eventually and revert back to the subway if they do choose to be that stupid). The Harlem Shuttle is a good thing, it’s either that or shutting down the line north of 135th completely. Both of which, I would agree with, because a grand total of 7000 riders combined at those stops is just not worth the trouble of shitty service If the MTA had balls, they’d make these kinds of changes without notifying the public, like how the rest of the world does it. Only after, will information be provided to assist riders in making changes to their journey.” See? Do you see how you’re proving my point on how y’all do not give a shit about New York? Putting your own misguided values is *not the ideal*! Like I don’t know how to give y’all a sense of reality.

*THE PEOPLE COME FIRST!!!!!* You do not speak for all approximately  8 million f**king people that ride the subway every f**king day!! And for someone that live in New Jersey even if an ex New York I honestly do not think you should be saying a single thing! 
 

The MTA subway system is not your personal art project that you could just edited for your own amusement! Wanna make these stupid ass plans a reality? Go make a openbve account and create a mod based off deinterlining, cause at this point openbve is the perfect place for y’all!!

Overrunning trains is an issue because when there is that much trains there’s isn’t enough space to place or terminate all of that traffic. The trains will end up getting stuck at many areas across the system like I ride the train to Wakefield and sometimes it gets stuck because both tracks of the terminal are filled up. Meaning that IRT has excellent service. End of story

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

I'm 50/50 on this subject But some of this de-interlining stuff that some of these transit fans come up with makes no sense at all. 

Rapid transit systems and commuter rail systems merge all the time and they manage to keep good service. The issue is speed and how some of these switches are. That is what causes the choke points.

 

The 8th ave line and broadway line could be de-interlined without screwing up too much stuff up. Like The would be the 8th ave/CPW express (local in brooklyn) and could run to bedford pk blvd 7 days a week all day while the could go to 168th during the week. The could replace the in Manhattan between 168th and WTC 7 days a week as the local with headways that wouldn't hurt the . This would eliminate that merge at canal st which causes delays in and service. The and would serve 2nd ave while the and would serve Queens which would eliminate merging at 34th and 49th st. The would run 7 days a week all times to Astoria with extra service during the rush to brooklyn (if they have the funding) meaning all 4 Broadway lines would have full service 7 days a week. The would get extended to bay ridge at night to replace the with the not running at nights (the runs to Whitehall at night and the would need that terminal so its better to replace the at night)

 

 

Well opinion respected. One sensible idea I still support is switching the  on 53rd street and 63rd Street tunnels. I was thinking of using the  for a scrapped 3rd Avenue proposal. Basically the idea was that the Bronx 3rd Avenue line would be rebuild as a 4 track line with the  being local and  running express then the tracks would merge 138th Street then run down on Harlem 2nd avenue. At 63rd street the  splits from the  ands merges at 7th avenue 53rd street with the  new switches would be build for the  to switch to the express tracks with the . The  then terminates at World Trade Center allowing for the  to be extended to Williamsburg Brooklyn and would get rid of the interlocking at Canal Street. Unfortunately i couldn’t really find anywhere to put this new merge at the 53rd street line 

Here’s an idea extend the metro north to lower Manhattan. The station would be 14th street canal street city hall and Fulton street This is just a proposal please don’t take this too seriously

2 hours ago, Theli11 said:

Yeah but you'd be making people transfer to a downtown train if they need to go further down. Why take Metro North if they can just take 1 train right where you need to go. 

My point exactly