Amiri the subway guy

3 hours ago, Vulturious said:

Sorry, but this sentenced was phrased very weird and I have no idea what you're trying to say. What I assume you're trying to say is having the  extended running along Fulton St Local and the  express with the . Again, I have no idea if this is what you're referring to.

While I agree that the SAS extension into Brooklyn should run along Fulton Local through a new connection to the Old Court St station, these ideas are talking about how to fix the current system and not about what should happen once SAS phase 4 is built. Unfortunately, I don't think there will be a time where we see Phase 4 built especially with how we're currently dealing with Phase 2 and haven't started yet. There's just no way that we'll be seeing Phase 2 completed any time soon. 

I was just stating how the  could truly be sent to Lefferts Blvd. since under the current pattern the  being sent to lefferts will result in another merge conflict with the  at Euclid Avenue so Fulton Street should remain the same. I in favor of 8th Avenue express and 6th Avenue local. The  would remain the same. The  would run to 168th Street Central Park West local The  would run to Bedford Park Blvd Central Park West Express. The  would to Norwood 205th Street Central Park West Local. During Weekends the  would stop at 163rd Street and 155th Street and run all local during late nights since the  is a weekday route only. The  still wont operate during late nights. 

On 11/15/2021 at 4:16 PM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

But then you'd have to reduce service on the three  branches severely. At the very least, Rock Park  service would have to be sacrificed. How else can you run the current forked  service, plus the  and  on the CPW express tracks without reducing  service, even with the  on its current miserable headways? 

This is why I suggest either do  local /  express or  local /  express for deinterlining CPW.

Any plans to extend the to Lefferts and divert the to Fulton will have to be done with a connection to Fulton street 

31 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

My guy, you made like 3 different threads with like 2 of them explained in 2 pinned threads. This doesn't need to be a thing in my opinion.

I intended to make a full series based off my own expansion proposals. No one gave me feedback. I always wanted to make my own page like NYTIP. 

Posted this on the 2nd Avenue trend but just wanted to show this new proposal for 2nd Avenue line that expands capacity 

In Harlem a new 125th Street Crosstown Subway line would be build with transfer to the 1/2/3/4/5/6/A/C/B/D. The T train would be sent there this gives People on West Harlem easier access to the East Side of Manhattan taking pressure off the 7/L trains. 

As for the Bronx the most popular proposal is to rebuild the 3rd Avenue line so I split it up into multiple phases in order to better manage the costs phase 1 would be to build a new tunnel in the Harlem river and extending the Q train to 3rd Avenue 149th street. Phase 2 would be to extend the Q to Fordham Plaza. And phase 3 would be to extend the Q to Gun Hill Road. A optional phase 4 to Co Op City should be studied too.  This would balance out west and east side TPH. And maybe even reduce crowding on the 2 train since now people would have a another option of getting to the West side of Manhattan. The 3rd Avenue line would have three tracks to allow for a peak way express and creation of a new <Q>Express Train. The express stops would be Co Op city, Gun Hill Road, Fordham Plaza, Tremont Avenue, 3rd Avenue 149th street, and 3rd Avenue 138th street. 

 

Now usually it’s the T via Bronx and Q via Harlem y’all used to but the reasoning for it is that currently they is 50 trains during rush hours heading to east midtown the 4/5/6 trains vs 25/30 trains heading to west midtown the 2/D. The 1 is further west away from the rest of the Bronx line and only three stations so technically we could exclude it in this scenario. The B is a rush hour only extension and runs on the same route as the D so it doesn’t really count as it’s own Individual line. Add the Q train would balance the ridership access out. And Broadway is a much more attractive line to be extended to the Bronx since it stops at a bunch of major transfer points in midtown ETC (Times Square Herald Square Union Square).

And sending the T to 125th street crosstown would give the people on Harlem easier access to the east side of Manhattan reducing crowding on the 7/L trains.

And people are saying that the Q train might be too long while I agree with this at first. Realistic that argument is moot cause I believe we overestimated the length cause let’s be honest the Q train won’t be anywhere near as long as the A or F trains. It would be around the same length as the B train. In fact my proposed K train route would be longer than the Q train

My estimate on the Q train length.

Longer than the N train, Shorter than the D train.

On queens a new 4 track Northern Blvd subway line would be build two new new 2nd Avenue lines will be created these are both currently defunct services the K and V trains. 
 

The K train would start off at Springfield blvd then it will meet up with the V train at Utopia Parkway  the V train would run local while the K train would run express. The local only stations are 

164th Street

Kissena Blvd 

Main Street Elder Avenue 

College Point Blvd

108th Street

100th Street

85th Street

78th Street

Local and Express stops 

Utopia Parkway

Willets Points Blvd (transfers to flushing line)

Junction Blvd

Broadway Northern Blvd (transfers to queens blvd line)

Both trains are based out of Sunnyside Yard 

The K train would branch off Broadway stoping at 
 

31st Street (transfer to Astoria line)

21st Street 

Then a lower level at 72nd Street 2nd Avenue would be made then the K train rises up at 42nd street as the express service. 
 

The V train 

would branch using the existing 63rd street tunnel than connects to 55th Street running local with the T train.

The reasoning why I propose Northern Blvd/2nd Ave express trains using the 63rd St tunnel. Is that It would allow would allow riders coming from 6th Ave, Queens blvd, Hillside the chance to easily transfer to the 2nd Ave Subway.

2nd Avenue would be expanded to 4 tracks the K train would extend to a new Williamburg Utica Avenue  line first it would stop at Clinton Street and Bedford Avenue 

The proposed Utica Avenue line would include 8th Avenue and 2nd Avenue services

The E train would also be extended to Williamsburg using the Worth Street provisions with the stations at Worth Street Chambers Street, Chatham Square, East Broadway and finally Montgomery Street. The Benefits are that it opens up new transfer options for riders in lower Manhattan. World Trade Center terminal will continue to get service but during rush hours only. The World Trade Center would be used to terminate extra C/E train during rush hours if their isn’t capacity on the Brooklyn routes when CBTC is Installed on the 8th Avenue, Fulton street, and the proposed Williamsburg lines. So a total of 8-10 rush hour trains would terminate there 4-5 rush hour C/E trains each would be sent there. But that might limit capacity on the Fulton street and the proposed Williamsburg lines. At all other times WTC is closed so you have to take the E to canal street for an A or C train I mean the Chambers street and World Trade Center are literally the same station complex so shutting it down shouldn’t be too much of a problem, however it does have a ridership count so some people might not like the sound of being forced to transfer at Canal Street for a A/C train. The World Trade Center would still be used for emergencies or G.O work.

The E train will also make one stop at Bedford Avenue before meeting up with the K train at Havemeyer street 

This route would run south 3rd street and Utica Avenue it would be a 4 track line the E train is the local and the K train is the express. 

Local exclusive stops 

Flushing Avenue

Lafayette Avenue 

Halsey Street 

Prospect Place

Empire Blvd

Church Avenue 

Avenue D

Flatlands Avenue 

Avenue N

All local and express stops

Havemeyer Street 

Broadway South 4th street

Myrtle Avenue 

Utica Avenue Fulton Street

Crown Heights Utica Avenue 

Kings Highway 

Kings Plaza Utica Avenue 

This proposed south 3rd street and Utica Avenue line would help balance the load of new commuters from Williamsburg, Bushwick and Bed-Stuy which currently use the L or M to get to Midtown or take the J to get to Lower Manhattan. The J train and the BMT Centre St Subway in general suffer from being built when everyone from northern Brooklyn were headed to lower Manhattan and the Financial District. Today commuting patterns have changed that now both lower Manhattan and midtown are popular designations but the high cost of new infrastructure has hampered the ability to make needed service changes. The new Williamburg line that would be served by the E and K trains would give communters more alternatives for folks in Williamburg other than having to use the congested J/Z M and L trains. And it’s would be very attractive as it offers both west side and east side access to Manhattan. 
 

Phase 4 would be build too
Hanover Square would be expanded to 4 tracks the inner tracks used for terminating trains the outer tracks used for Brooklyn service. Both the T and V trains would be extend to Fulton street local using the Court Street transit museum link. T/V meets up with the A/C at Hoyt Street the C train would be moved to the Express tracks with the A train on Broadway junction the T train would branch off to recapture the Atlantic Avenue branch and run up to Jamaica Center. The V train would continue to Euclid Avenue. The C train would be extended to Lefferts Blvd. All A trains can than be diverted to Far Rockway and Rockway Park. During Evenings/Weekends the V train would only run up to Hanover Square the C train runs local only up to Euclid Avenue. The A train also goes to Lefferts Blvd during these hours. Rockway shuttle also operates weekends and late nights. During late nights V train won’t operate at all the K train operates local in its place. Lefferts shuttle still operates during late nights.

I gotta admit this will cost FAR MORE than the current proposed second ave subway but what I trying to say is that the current plan only helps people in the east side of Manhattan travel a bit better. It does practically NOTHING for riders from The Bronx Queens or Brooklyn. I mean the biggest flaw is that there no express tracks HECK they isn’t even a third track that could be used for emergencies. Meaning that if something goes wrong at one station THE ENTIRE LINE is screwed up. I mean at least make room for the express for when ridership increases they can be build easily. The current transfers to 2nd Av require riders to use multiple stairs long corridors and transfer to multiple train routes all because planners are either too scared or don’t want to even bother design their projects to full potential. If the 2nd Ave Subway is not designed properly then it will be one of if not the most expensive mistake the MTA makes. The NYC Subway has a long history of poor planning mistakes which have limited service ever since; 2nd ave subway is the PERFECT  opportunity to redeem ourselves. 

 I’m concerned about the cost of course. But government please fund the mta. The government really needs to invest more money to the MTA.

The 2nd Ave subway is a subway line needed to not just relieve congestion along the east side of Manhattan Lexington Ave subway but also many other subways that service the entire city. My main concern about the 2nd ave proposal is that MTA will try and build the cheapest subway it can which the MTA will regret DEARLY when the population grows. The ideal for some 2nd Ave subway proposal is that it adds capacity ( 2nd ave line should be incorporated into existing lines so that existing trains could be used for improved service elsewhere)

The community and the MTA should also work together to find a solution that works out best. Costs must be brought under control cost should not be an excuse to build a less effective subway line. Transit should be built where it’s most effective not where it’s cheapest to build. 

I’ll make a map on this plan later please give feedback 

PS routings 

T train Broadway 125th street - Jamaica Center (2nd Avenue Local Fulton street Local Atlantic Avenue Local)

K train Springfield Blvd - Kings Plaza Utica Avenue ( Northern Blvd Express 2nd Avenue Express Williamsburg Utica Avenue Express)

V train Utopia Parkway - Euclid Avenue (Northern Blvd Local 2nd Avenue Local Fulton Street local)

This is my personal blog about my own proposals

I made this trend because people keep saying to send the 2nd Avenue line to the Manhattan Bridge.

So basically phase 4 is discarded 

2nd Avenue takes over the B/D on the Manhattan Bridge to West End and Brighton

Jamaica line gets split into two at Broadway Junction and build a new underground section from Broadway Junction to Cypress Hills, eliminating the two sharp curves that slow things down.  The B and D would take over the J/M/Z on the Williamsburg Bridge, The B train would take over the M train to Metropolitan Avenue Middle Village. And the D train would take over the J/Z to Broadway Junction. Then build a connection to the IND Fulton Street Line, a Fulton street service would take over J service from Jamaica Center to Broadway Junction, then run express with the A into Manhattan.  The Montague Street tunnel would be connected to Fulton Street so that Broadway locals could go there. The J train would be a shuttle.

My thoughts I have a strong dislike for this plan

For starters rerouting the B and D to Williamburg is a terrible idea because 

1. Brooklyn riders would lose access to the popular 6th ave line and if reroutings are needed on 6th ave service the entire service would be screwed since at least the current lay out for rerouting allow for trains to go to Coney Island either way. Example F train via west end D train via culver No to mention that this plan won’t even allow for the Broadway line to be rerouted to 6th Avenue in case of emergencies. What if another Manhattan Bridge reconstruction project is needed example how that would be impacted see? This is when putting the 2nd Avenue line on the Manhattan Bridge really becomes a problem. Williamburg has a lower ridership from 6th Avenue than southern Brooklyn 

2. Further more many south Brooklyn riders would be piss over at losing 6th Ave service to Coney Island or lose access to lower Manhattan Nassau from Williamsburg. Not to mention that Jamaica line can’t handle 75 foot long train cars If necessary we should extend a 2nd ave line via a new tunnel to Williamburg. That would require multiple shut downs. And you be pissing off a lot of grand Concourse Central Park West riders trying to get to Coney Island. The L and M are crowded, but are not that overwhelmed therefore do not justify letting riders suffer for years on end.

3. The Broadway line would be overwhelmed and even more crowded. This forces thousands of people to transfer at 34rd street herald square causing congestion again not worth it They is very little demand for East Side from BMT south Brooklyn . People that want to get to the east side transfer at 4/5 not a problem at all. People in BMT south Brooklyn gotten used to no east side access therefore does not justify it. 
 
4. This will require multiple shutdowns which will not sit well with anyone at all

5. spliting the Jamaica line does not better  Address the needs of Williamburg in fact it worsens things off for starters people would be furious as they would lose one sat ride from Jamaica center to Williamburg. Than you have Fulton street connection which would be too expensive for the conversation to happen. 

6. And the J train becoming a shuttle basically destroys service on Williamburg since you are cutting off service from lower Manhattan and dont bring up the “riders want midtown more than lower Manhattan argument” cause demand for lower Manhattan is just as high have y’all even rode the J/Z before lower Manhattan has seen just as much Gentrification as midtown did and yes we need a phase 4. Lower Manhattan is likely to get more job opportunities with the World Trade Center and rapid growth Phase 4 would has provision for a tunnel to Fulton street. Williamburg is a smaller priority for the 2nd Avenue project so just route a 2nd Avenue line to Williamburg via a new tunnel. Routing a 2nd Avenue line to Williamburg should reduce crowding on the J/Z L and M trains. It’s more likely that people are hating on the J train for no reason. Let’s respect the J train

Just build phase 4 with connections to Fulton street. My plan would be to send 8th Avenue and 2nd Avenue trains to Williamburg and Utica Avenue on a total new line  

So that plan will not work out at all removing the (B)(D) from the Manhattan bridge would cause Coney Island riders to lose access to the 6th Avenue Central Park West and Grand Concourse and removing the (J)(Z) from Williamsburg Bridge would cause riders to lose access to Nassau st line AKA the only connecting to lower Manhattan. Just leave the B D on Manhattan bridge the way it is just leave the J M Z on Williamburg the way it is the riders demand it stays like that. The ideal is to improve realible on the J/Z trains not remove it.

On 9/21/2019 at 9:34 AM, KK 6 Ave Local said:

Here is an updated plan of mine showing what an SAS with 4 tracks should look like. 

 - Second Ave Local, Express between 125-72nd. Fordham Road/3rd Ave to Bay Ridge via 3rd Avenue in the Bronx, SAS, Water Street or Nassau, Montague, 4th Avenue

(U) - Second Ave Express, Bartow Ave/Bronx to Coney Island via 3rd Avenue, SAS, north side Manhattan Bridge tracks, Brighton Express

 Second Ave Local, 179th Street/Queens to Brighton Beach via Hillside Ave, Queens Blvd, Queens Bypass, SAS, north side Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Local

 

Notes and other plans:

 will run to a 3 track Northern Blvd line

(U)  displace  to Metropolitan Ave and Bway Junction respectively, and  to West End.

 displaces  to Fulton,  will run to Hollis and  to Euclid

 runs as a rush hour service between Essex and Jamaica

 plan for QBL,  will run to RBB, splitting off at 63rd Drive.

 and  will run the same routes so they might have to be integrated to an  service, another option is that Lefferts runs can be  while Far Rock runs can be

Thoughts?

I hate it. I hate that you clearly never ridden the B/D trains in southern Brooklyn. You will piss off the thousands of communters heading to 6th Avenue. I hated that people have no respect for the riders that live off of the J train. Stop trying to screw over communters. U train sounds like you so no. Just switch at Atlantic Avenue for Lexington Avenue if you heading to the east side. Send the 2nd Avenue to Fulton street. Leave the R train on Bay Ridge.  

On 3/26/2020 at 7:56 AM, KK 6 Ave Local said:

I have a similar plan with Fulton service replacing the Jamaica Line past Bway Junction, then branches to Utica Ave and a Metropolitan Ave extension to the LIE which would be the  on utica and  on LIE

Just build PHASE 4 will provisions for Fulton street connections. LEAVE THE J TRAIN ALONE ON WILLIAMBURG. And let the B/D ALONE on the Manhattan Bridge. Build 2nd Avenue to Williamburg on a different route. It less likely to piss off communters

On 3/25/2020 at 11:57 PM, EvilMonologue said:

The Nassau line definitely needs to be looked at in a critical way, especially given the popularity of the  (look at that it only took me 20 posts to figure that out haha). Sending the Brown  to Bay Ridge isn't really that much more valuable just because people still ultimately want to go to Midtown, and this is just an inherent flaw with the Nassau line. 

In the medium term (hopefully) maybe you could do it this way. The  and  take over the  and  in Brooklyn and Queens once the southern section of the 2 av (with provisions for 4 tracks) replaces  and  service on the Manhattan Bridge (under a de-interlining scheme). Stop consolidation should occur along today's line, also making sure to combine Hewes and Lorimer stations for a better transfer with the . A 3rd track connecting to Cypress Hills station and platform extensions should be done as well. The Manhattan portion of the  is now a downtown shuttle.

In the long term (again hopefully but realistically never), this is what I'd like to see. Start the Utica av line as a  extension, but with the intention of shaving back platforms for eventual B Division conversion. The line would go first from Av U to the . And then once it was converted, extended to the  and , then to the (at this point)  and , and as far as the  and the  eventually. The goal would be to have a line with an obvious connection to the  and  and 2 av, you'd just need to build the tunnel. When the other 2 tracks for 2 av are built, they would take over the  south of the Bowery station. To have the  and  connect to the Utica av line, introduce a new 5 av line which would go over the Williamsburg Bridge and would go to Middle Village and Jamaica on today's  and  lines. 

Breaking up the Nassau line, in the long term, is probably the best way to increase ridership along the corridor to provide Midtown access. In the medium term this can be done by replacing  and  service with  and  but in the long term, we'd hope to see the number of services in the outer boroughs increase with the number of services in Manhattan. Sending the  and  down Utica av and the  and  up 5 av might be the long term solution to that.

Why do you hate the J train. What do you have against the B/D to Coney Island. Clearly you never ridden these routes. Removing B/D from Coney Island pisses off 6th Avenue communters and overwhelms the Broadway. Removing the J train pisses off people going to Williamsburg. Ride the subway before posting stuff

18 minutes ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Turning the A train into a one borough line makes it useless and pointless what’s the point of having a subway line that won’t travel to outer boroughs
And the E will become too long since the E short route is why it’s popular as it’s more likely to show up than the F train

 

Lemme edit it my thought. Turning the A train into a one borough line makes it useless and pointless what’s the point of having a subway line that won’t travel to outer boroughs
The E short route is probably why it’s popular as it’s more likely to show up than the F train. If anything the E should be extended to Utica Avenue instead since that route would be shorter

On 11/17/2021 at 12:11 AM, Vulturious said:

  I have to agree on this one tbh. There really is no way to run service better without making sacrifices to other lines which would probably just end up making things worse. I did think of one way that didn't make anything worse, but did go a step in the right direction. It involved using the West 4 St switches with one of the 6 Av local service (which would be the  in this case) to run along 8 Av and to either 145 St/Bedford Park Blvd or 168 St. Regardless, it would be cutback during weekends and late nights so nothing much is changing with that.

I also decided to include Vanshnook's Dekalb De-interline idea with the  to Bay Ridge through a new switch to allow for express service along 4 Av and the  to Coney via Sea Beach. The  would extend back to Coney Island running like it originally did, but all local with the  terminating at a rehabilitated lower Level City Hall. Brighton would be an all Broadway line with the  and , the  in this case would be entirely de-interlined.

QBL also gets de-interlined to an extent, the  would reroute back towards 57 St and run via 63 St and QBL local to Forest Hills (with maybe the chance of rush hour extensions to Jamaica-179 St since it also runs express for the most part). The  and  doesn't really get much of a boost even with both of them running together again via 53 St since the  would interfere with both services still, unfortunately. 

On the plus side, the  and  gets a boost in service since both run express on 8 Av and CPW with the  and  along CPW local.

I'm not exactly sure how late nights and weekends would work in this scenario for CPW. The issue is the  shouldn't run during late nights and the  would run back to Norwood. Unfortunately, the  is local and doesn't make sense to run back along express since that would confuse passengers. I tried having the  express, but that left 50 St upper level empty. 

QBL would most likely run like it usually does during late nights with the  back on 63 St whenever the  isn't around and the  local the whole way. The  for the most part is just gone during late nights, maybe the  during weekends doesn't run all the way to Forest Hills and stays at 21 St-Queensbridge. QBL would still run more reliably with the  cut back and only having to deal with just the .

The in Brooklyn would run like it did before it was swapped to Brighton which is shuttle service. Service can be extended to Atlantic Av, but it might just be best to keep it at 36 St. A new relay switch would be created so  trains can stay express to 36 St with the  continuing express north of 36 St so the  doesn't have this weird merging issue at Dekalb.  trains obviously wouldn't run late nights and weekends so for the most part, the  is just on it's own and nothing would delay service on it whatsoever except when in Manhattan running local with the . 

It's not the best idea obviously, but I have put a lot of thought into it. It's definitely far from being the worst proposal in my honest opinion, but there are definitely things that just might not work in practice. I had another idea that involved having a new tunnel connection between Cortlandt St and WTC taking WTC platform out of service and another connection using the provisions at 57 St-7 Av connecting to CPW. Again, it might not be the best, but this is something that should be looked at if possible. This would definitely be a good investment as this can provide alternatives which is something we need more of tbh.

Most of it has been proposed before, I didn't really have much of an issue with it aside from the  getting shafted in this scenario. However, I really don't like the  being there since it's just unnecessary to have another 6 Av and CPW service. The only reason it existed was because service along Broadway lost the Manhattan Bridge access and bringing it back just personally doesn't make sense. You end up having to reduce one of the services to compensate for the other which just isn't worth the effort. On top of that, Dekalb would definitely keep it hindered.

Good question, I think having some sort of compromise for smoother service would be better. Vanshnook's idea for Dekalb is probably the best in terms of a service boost. Currently, I take the , mainly taking it in Brooklyn to like somewhere in midtown Manhattan or anywhere below it. Every single time I try to get on one, I somehow just end up getting shafted because it just doesn't run often enough. I've had times where the   and   appear more often than the  which is just straight up annoying. I've also had issues where a battery run passes by me or I'm on one because it was running behind (most of the time it had to help out the piece of shit  ). If you don't know, a battery run is when it makes express service to it's destination, most of the time the train would be on the local tracks. I would know if the train is bypassing if the operator was honking their horn twice and keeps honking as it passes by. It was so bad I had to wait like an hour and a half for one train to come by because 3 other trains bypassed me. I wish I was joking, but it was true. The current  is just so bad, even before COVID, it just doesn't want to show up. When I'm on the train, it can go quick, but waiting for one, you can forget about it. 

Back on topic though, even with Vanshnook making West End only accessed by local service, I wasn't really all that mad because I had a guaranteed shot at catching an express train which was either a  or  on 4 Av. Especially since they both run express, both running via 6 Av, and stick together for a good long stretch compared to before. Dekalb wouldn't be an issue anymore either, only other issue was not having direct access to a Broadway express service from 4 Av, but the  would be running more reliably so transferring wouldn't be an issue either. 

Unfortunately in your case, some of your "compromises" just don't work. The latest proposal kind of proves my point. I can't really say what makes a "good compromise" since I am not perfect at my proposals either. Take a look at my proposal for a CPW de-interline plan, it still has flaws and is far from perfect. I don't think there is ever going to be a perfect system without making some physical changes like infrastructure and whatnot.

The  is redundant just leave it as the  makes things easier to tell the Locals and express apart. But agreed with dekalb deinterlining plan

On 11/16/2021 at 7:59 PM, MTA Researcher said:

Well how about this:

   207 - Coney: CPW/6 Av Exp - Brighton Lcl

 Bedford - Brighton Beach: Concourse Lcl - CPW/6 Av Exp - Brighton Exp

 205 - Bay Ridge: Concourse Exp RH - CPW/6 Av Exp - 4 Av Lcl

 

But then we need to figure how the   would run….

 - 168 St - WTC
 - BPB - WTC

 

???
 

At this point 

 JC - Rockaways: QBL/8 Av Exp - Fulton St Exp

 Jamaica 179 St - Lefferts: QBL/8 Av Exp - Fulton St Lcl

 

I have a hunch someone here will object….

My answer to you is:

Do you prefer direct access with delays or compromise for a smoother service? 

Turning the A train into a one borough line makes it useless and pointless what’s the point of having a subway line that won’t travel to outer boroughs
And the E will become too long since the E short route is why it’s popular as it’s more likely to show up than the F train

Posted this on the 2nd Avenue trend but just wanted to show this new proposal for 2nd Avenue line that expands capacity 

In Harlem a new 125th Street Crosstown Subway line would be build with transfer to the 1/2/3/4/5/6/A/C/B/D. The T train would be sent there this gives People on West Harlem easier access to the East Side of Manhattan taking pressure off the 7/L trains. 

As for the Bronx the most popular proposal is to rebuild the 3rd Avenue line so I split it up into multiple phases in order to better manage the costs phase 1 would be to build a new tunnel in the Harlem river and extending the Q train to 3rd Avenue 149th street. Phase 2 would be to extend the Q to Fordham Plaza. And phase 3 would be to extend the Q to Gun Hill Road. A optional phase 4 to Co Op City should be studied too.  This would balance out west and east side TPH. And maybe even reduce crowding on the 2 train since now people would have a another option of getting to the West side of Manhattan. The 3rd Avenue line would have three tracks to allow for a peak way express and creation of a new <Q>Express Train. The express stops would be Co Op city, Gun Hill Road, Fordham Plaza, Tremont Avenue, 3rd Avenue 149th street, and 3rd Avenue 138th street. 

 

Now usually it’s the T via Bronx and Q via Harlem y’all used to but the reasoning for it is that currently they is 50 trains during rush hours heading to east midtown the 4/5/6 trains vs 25/30 trains heading to west midtown the 2/D. The 1 is further west away from the rest of the Bronx line and only three stations so technically we could exclude it in this scenario. The B is a rush hour only extension and runs on the same route as the D so it doesn’t really count as it’s own Individual line. Add the Q train would balance the ridership access out. And Broadway is a much more attractive line to be extended to the Bronx since it stops at a bunch of major transfer points in midtown ETC (Times Square Herald Square Union Square).

And sending the T to 125th street crosstown would give the people on Harlem easier access to the east side of Manhattan reducing crowding on the 7/L trains.

And people are saying that the Q train might be too long while I agree with this at first. Realistic that argument is moot cause I believe we overestimated the length cause let’s be honest the Q train won’t be anywhere near as long as the A or F trains. It would be around the same length as the B train. In fact my proposed K train route would be longer than the Q train

My estimate on the Q train length.

Longer than the N train, Shorter than the D train.

On queens a new 4 track Northern Blvd subway line would be build two new new 2nd Avenue lines will be created these are both currently defunct services the K and V trains. 
 

The K train would start off at Springfield blvd then it will meet up with the V train at Utopia Parkway  the V train would run local while the K train would run express. The local only stations are 

164th Street

Kissena Blvd 

Main Street Elder Avenue 

College Point Blvd

108th Street

100th Street

85th Street

78th Street

Local and Express stops 

Utopia Parkway

Willets Points Blvd (transfers to flushing line)

Junction Blvd

Broadway Northern Blvd (transfers to queens blvd line)

Both trains are based out of Sunnyside Yard 

The K train would branch off Broadway stoping at 
 

31st Street (transfer to Astoria line)

21st Street 

Then a lower level at 72nd Street 2nd Avenue would be made then the K train rises up at 42nd street as the express service. 
 

The V train 

would branch using the existing 63rd street tunnel than connects to 55th Street running local with the T train.

The reasoning why I propose Northern Blvd/2nd Ave express trains using the 63rd St tunnel. Is that It would allow would allow riders coming from 6th Ave, Queens blvd, Hillside the chance to easily transfer to the 2nd Ave Subway.

2nd Avenue would be expanded to 4 tracks the K train would extend to a new Williamburg Utica Avenue  line first it would stop at Clinton Street and Bedford Avenue 

The proposed Utica Avenue line would include 8th Avenue and 2nd Avenue services

The E train would also be extended to Williamsburg using the Worth Street provisions with the stations at Worth Street Chambers Street, Chatham Square, East Broadway and finally Montgomery Street. The Benefits are that it opens up new transfer options for riders in lower Manhattan. World Trade Center terminal will continue to get service but during rush hours only. The World Trade Center would be used to terminate extra C/E train during rush hours if their isn’t capacity on the Brooklyn routes when CBTC is Installed on the 8th Avenue, Fulton street, and the proposed Williamsburg lines. So a total of 8-10 rush hour trains would terminate there 4-5 rush hour C/E trains each would be sent there. But that might limit capacity on the Fulton street and the proposed Williamsburg lines. At all other times WTC is closed so you have to take the E to canal street for an A or C train I mean the Chambers street and World Trade Center are literally the same station complex so shutting it down shouldn’t be too much of a problem, however it does have a ridership count so some people might not like the sound of being forced to transfer at Canal Street for a A/C train. The World Trade Center would still be used for emergencies or G.O work.

The E train will also make one stop at Bedford Avenue before meeting up with the K train at Havemeyer street 

This route would run south 3rd street and Utica Avenue it would be a 4 track line the E train is the local and the K train is the express. 

Local exclusive stops 

Flushing Avenue

Lafayette Avenue 

Halsey Street 

Prospect Place

Empire Blvd

Church Avenue 

Avenue D

Flatlands Avenue 

Avenue N

All local and express stops

Havemeyer Street 

Broadway South 4th street

Myrtle Avenue 

Utica Avenue Fulton Street

Crown Heights Utica Avenue 

Kings Highway 

Kings Plaza Utica Avenue 

This proposed south 3rd street and Utica Avenue line would help balance the load of new commuters from Williamsburg, Bushwick and Bed-Stuy which currently use the L or M to get to Midtown or take the J to get to Lower Manhattan. The J train and the BMT Centre St Subway in general suffer from being built when everyone from northern Brooklyn were headed to lower Manhattan and the Financial District. Today commuting patterns have changed that now both lower Manhattan and midtown are popular designations but the high cost of new infrastructure has hampered the ability to make needed service changes. The new Williamburg line that would be served by the E and K trains would give communters more alternatives for folks in Williamburg other than having to use the congested J/Z M and L trains. And it’s would be very attractive as it offers both west side and east side access to Manhattan. 
 

Phase 4 would be build too
Hanover Square would be expanded to 4 tracks the inner tracks used for terminating trains the outer tracks used for Brooklyn service. Both the T and V trains would be extend to Fulton street local using the Court Street transit museum link. T/V meets up with the A/C at Hoyt Street the C train would be moved to the Express tracks with the A train on Broadway junction the T train would branch off to recapture the Atlantic Avenue branch and run up to Jamaica Center. The V train would continue to Euclid Avenue. The C train would be extended to Lefferts Blvd. All A trains can than be diverted to Far Rockway and Rockway Park. During Evenings/Weekends the V train would only run up to Hanover Square the C train runs local only up to Euclid Avenue. The A train also goes to Lefferts Blvd during these hours. Rockway shuttle also operates weekends and late nights. During late nights V train won’t operate at all the K train operates local in its place. Lefferts shuttle still operates during late nights.

I gotta admit this will cost FAR MORE than the current proposed second ave subway but what I trying to say is that the current plan only helps people in the east side of Manhattan travel a bit better. It does practically NOTHING for riders from The Bronx Queens or Brooklyn. I mean the biggest flaw is that there no express tracks HECK they isn’t even a third track that could be used for emergencies. Meaning that if something goes wrong at one station THE ENTIRE LINE is screwed up. I mean at least make room for the express for when ridership increases they can be build easily. The current transfers to 2nd Av require riders to use multiple stairs long corridors and transfer to multiple train routes all because planners are either too scared or don’t want to even bother design their projects to full potential. If the 2nd Ave Subway is not designed properly then it will be one of if not the most expensive mistake the MTA makes. The NYC Subway has a long history of poor planning mistakes which have limited service ever since; 2nd ave subway is the PERFECT  opportunity to redeem ourselves. 

 I’m concerned about the cost of course. But government please fund the mta. The government really needs to invest more money to the MTA.

The 2nd Ave subway is a subway line needed to not just relieve congestion along the east side of Manhattan Lexington Ave subway but also many other subways that service the entire city. My main concern about the 2nd ave proposal is that MTA will try and build the cheapest subway it can which the MTA will regret DEARLY when the population grows. The ideal for some 2nd Ave subway proposal is that it adds capacity ( 2nd ave line should be incorporated into existing lines so that existing trains could be used for improved service elsewhere)

The community and the MTA should also work together to find a solution that works out best. Costs must be brought under control cost should not be an excuse to build a less effective subway line. Transit should be built where it’s most effective not where it’s cheapest to build. 

I’ll make a map on this plan later please give feedback 

PS routings 

T train Broadway 125th street - Jamaica Center (2nd Avenue Local Fulton street Local Atlantic Avenue Local)

K train Springfield Blvd - Kings Plaza Utica Avenue ( Northern Blvd Express 2nd Avenue Express Williamsburg Utica Avenue Express)

V train Utopia Parkway - Euclid Avenue (Northern Blvd Local 2nd Avenue Local Fulton Street local)

3 minutes ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

New proposal 

In Harlem a new 125th Street Crosstown Subway line would be build with transfer to the 1/2/3/4/5/6/A/C/B/D. The T train would be sent there this gives People on West Harlem easier access to the East Side of Manhattan taking pressure off the 7/L trains. 

As for the Bronx the most popular proposal is to rebuild the 3rd Avenue line so I split it up into multiple phases in order to better manage the costs phase 1 would be to build a new tunnel in the Harlem river and extending the Q train to 3rd Avenue 149th street. Phase 2 would be to extend the Q to Fordham Plaza. And phase 3 would be to extend the Q to Gun Hill Road. A optional phase 4 to Co Op City should be studied too.  This would balance out west and east side TPH. And maybe even reduce crowding on the 2 train since now people would have a another option of getting to the West side of Manhattan. The 3rd Avenue line would have three tracks to allow for a peak way express and creation of a new <Q>Express Train. The express stops would be Co Op city, Gun Hill Road, Fordham Plaza, Tremont Avenue, 3rd Avenue 149th street, and 3rd Avenue 138th street. 

 

Now usually it’s the T via Bronx and Q via Harlem y’all used to but the reasoning for it is that currently they is 50 trains during rush hours heading to east midtown the 4/5/6 trains vs 25/30 trains heading to west midtown the 2/D. The 1 is further west away from the rest of the Bronx line and only three stations so technically we could exclude it in this scenario. The B is a rush hour only extension and runs on the same route as the D so it doesn’t really count as it’s own Individual line. Add the Q train would balance the ridership access out. And Broadway is a much more attractive line to be extended to the Bronx since it stops at a bunch of major transfer points in midtown ETC (Times Square Herald Square Union Square).

And sending the T to 125th street crosstown would give the people on Harlem easier access to the east side of Manhattan reducing crowding on the 7/L trains.

And people are saying that the Q train might be too long while I agree with this at first. Realistic that argument is moot cause I believe we overestimated the length cause let’s be honest the Q train won’t be anywhere near as long as the A or F trains. It would be around the same length as the B train. In fact my proposed K train route would be longer than the Q train

My estimate on the Q train length.

Longer than the N train, Shorter than the D train.

On queens a new 4 track Northern Blvd subway line would be build two new new 2nd Avenue lines will be created these are both currently defunct services the K and V trains. 
 

The K train would start off at Springfield blvd then it will meet up with the V train at Utopia Parkway  the V train would run local while the K train would run express. The local only stations are 

164th Street

Kissena Blvd 

Main Street Elder Avenue 

College Point Blvd

108th Street

100th Street

85th Street

78th Street

Local and Express stops 

Utopia Parkway

Willets Points Blvd (transfers to flushing line)

Junction Blvd

Broadway Northern Blvd (transfers to queens blvd line)

Both trains are based out of Sunnyside Yard 

The K train would branch off Broadway stoping at 
 

31st Street (transfer to Astoria line)

21st Street 

Then a lower level at 72nd Street 2nd Avenue would be made then the K train rises up at 42nd street as the express service. 
 

The V train 

would branch using the existing 63rd street tunnel than connects to 55th Street running local with the T train.

The reasoning why I propose Northern Blvd/2nd Ave express trains using the 63rd St tunnel. Is that It would allow would allow riders coming from 6th Ave, Queens blvd, Hillside the chance to easily transfer to the 2nd Ave Subway.

2nd Avenue would be expanded to 4 tracks the K train would extend to a new Williamburg Utica Avenue  line first it would stop at Clinton Street and Bedford Avenue 

The proposed Utica Avenue line would include 8th Avenue and 2nd Avenue services

The E train would also be extended to Williamsburg using the Worth Street provisions with the stations at Worth Street Chambers Street, Chatham Square, East Broadway and finally Montgomery Street. The Benefits are that it opens up new transfer options for riders in lower Manhattan. World Trade Center terminal will continue to get service but during rush hours only. The World Trade Center would be used to terminate extra C/E train during rush hours if their isn’t capacity on the Brooklyn routes when CBTC is Installed on the 8th Avenue, Fulton street, and the proposed Williamsburg lines. So a total of 8-10 rush hour trains would terminate there 4-5 rush hour C/E trains each would be sent there. But that might limit capacity on the Fulton street and the proposed Williamsburg lines. At all other times WTC is closed so you have to take the E to canal street for an A or C train I mean the Chambers street and World Trade Center are literally the same station complex so shutting it down shouldn’t be too much of a problem, however it does have a ridership count so some people might not like the sound of being forced to transfer at Canal Street for a A/C train. The World Trade Center would still be used for emergencies or G.O work.

 

The E train will also make one stop at Bedford Avenue before meeting up with the K train at Havemeyer street 

 

This route would run south 3rd street and Utica Avenue it would be a 4 track line the E train is the local and the K train is the express. 

 

Local exclusive stops 

Flushing Avenue

Lafayette Avenue 

Halsey Street 

Prospect Place

Empire Blvd

Church Avenue 

Avenue D

Flatlands Avenue 

Avenue N

 

All local and express stops

Havemeyer Street 

Broadway South 4th street

Myrtle Avenue 

Utica Avenue Fulton Street

Crown Heights Utica Avenue 

Kings Highway 

Flatlands Avenue 

Avenue N

Kings Plaza Utica Avenue 

 

This proposed south 3rd street and Utica Avenue line would help balance the load of new commuters from Williamsburg, Bushwick and Bed-Stuy which currently use the L or M to get to Midtown or take the J to get to Lower Manhattan. The J train and the BMT Centre St Subway in general suffer from being built when everyone from northern Brooklyn were headed to lower Manhattan and the Financial District. Today commuting patterns have changed that now both lower Manhattan and midtown are popular designations but the high cost of new infrastructure has hampered the ability to make needed service changes. The new Williamburg line that would be served by the E and K trains would give communters more alternatives for folks in Williamburg other than having to use the congested J/Z M and L trains. And it’s would be very attractive as it offers both west side and east side access to Manhattan. 
 

Phase 4 would be build too
Hanover Square would be expanded to 4 tracks the inner tracks used for terminating trains the outer tracks used for Brooklyn service. Both the T and V trains would be extend to Fulton street local using the Court Street transit museum link. T/V meets up with the A/C at Hoyt Street the C train would be moved to the Express tracks with the A train on Broadway junction the T train would branch off to recapture the Atlantic Avenue branch and run up to Jamaica Center. The V train would continue to Euclid Avenue. The C train would be extended to Lefferts Blvd. All A trains can than be diverted to Far Rockway and Rockway Park. During Evenings/Weekends the V train would only run up to Hanover Square the C train runs local only up to Euclid Avenue. The A train also goes to Lefferts Blvd during these hours. Rockway shuttle also operates weekends and late nights. During late nights V train won’t operate at all the K train operates local in its place. Lefferts shuttle still operates during late nights.

I gotta admit this will cost FAR MORE than the current proposed second ave subway but what I trying to say is that the current plan only helps people in the east side of Manhattan travel a bit better. It does practically NOTHING for riders from The Bronx Queens or Brooklyn. I mean the biggest flaw is that there no express tracks HECK they isn’t even a third track that could be used for emergencies. Meaning that if something goes wrong at one station THE ENTIRE LINE is screwed up. I mean at least make room for the express for when ridership increases they can be build easily. The current transfers to 2nd Av require riders to use multiple stairs long corridors and transfer to multiple train routes all because planners are either too scared or don’t want to even bother design their projects to full potential. If the 2nd Ave Subway is not designed properly then it will be one of if not the most expensive mistake the MTA makes. The NYC Subway has a long history of poor planning mistakes which have limited service ever since; 2nd ave subway is the PERFECT  opportunity to redeem ourselves. 

 I’m concerned about the cost of course. But government please fund the mta. The government really needs to invest more money to the MTA.

The 2nd Ave subway is a subway line needed to not just relieve congestion along the east side of Manhattan Lexington Ave subway but also many other subways that service the entire city. My main concern about the 2nd ave proposal is that MTA will try and build the cheapest subway it can which the MTA will regret DEARLY when the population grows. The ideal for some 2nd Ave subway proposal is that it adds capacity ( 2nd ave line should be incorporated into existing lines so that existing trains could be used for improved service elsewhere)

The community and the MTA should also work together to find a solution that works out best. Costs must be brought under control cost should not be an excuse to build a less effective subway line. Transit should be built where it’s most effective not where it’s cheapest to build. 

I’ll make a map on this plan later please give feedback 

 

 

PS routings 

T train Broadway 125th street - Jamaica Center (2nd Avenue Local Fulton street Local Atlantic Avenue Local)

K train Springfield Blvd - Kings Plaza Utica Avenue ( Northern Blvd Express 2nd Avenue Express Williamsburg Utica Avenue Express)

V train Utopia Parkway - Euclid Avenue (Northern Blvd Local 2nd Avenue Local Fulton Street local)

New proposal 

In Harlem a new 125th Street Crosstown Subway line would be build with transfer to the 1/2/3/4/5/6/A/C/B/D. The T train would be sent there this gives People on West Harlem easier access to the East Side of Manhattan taking pressure off the 7/L trains. 

As for the Bronx the most popular proposal is to rebuild the 3rd Avenue line so I split it up into multiple phases in order to better manage the costs phase 1 would be to build a new tunnel in the Harlem river and extending the Q train to 3rd Avenue 149th street. Phase 2 would be to extend the Q to Fordham Plaza. And phase 3 would be to extend the Q to Gun Hill Road. A optional phase 4 to Co Op City should be studied too.  This would balance out west and east side TPH. And maybe even reduce crowding on the 2 train since now people would have a another option of getting to the West side of Manhattan. The 3rd Avenue line would have three tracks to allow for a peak way express and creation of a new <Q>Express Train. The express stops would be Co Op city, Gun Hill Road, Fordham Plaza, Tremont Avenue, 3rd Avenue 149th street, and 3rd Avenue 138th street. 

 

Now usually it’s the T via Bronx and Q via Harlem y’all used to but the reasoning for it is that currently they is 50 trains during rush hours heading to east midtown the 4/5/6 trains vs 25/30 trains heading to west midtown the 2/D. The 1 is further west away from the rest of the Bronx line and only three stations so technically we could exclude it in this scenario. The B is a rush hour only extension and runs on the same route as the D so it doesn’t really count as it’s own Individual line. Add the Q train would balance the ridership access out. And Broadway is a much more attractive line to be extended to the Bronx since it stops at a bunch of major transfer points in midtown ETC (Times Square Herald Square Union Square).

And sending the T to 125th street crosstown would give the people on Harlem easier access to the east side of Manhattan reducing crowding on the 7/L trains.

And people are saying that the Q train might be too long while I agree with this at first. Realistic that argument is moot cause I believe we overestimated the length cause let’s be honest the Q train won’t be anywhere near as long as the A or F trains. It would be around the same length as the B train. In fact my proposed K train route would be longer than the Q train

My estimate on the Q train length.

Longer than the N train, Shorter than the D train.

On queens a new 4 track Northern Blvd subway line would be build two new new 2nd Avenue lines will be created these are both currently defunct services the K and V trains. 
 

The K train would start off at Springfield blvd then it will meet up with the V train at Utopia Parkway  the V train would run local while the K train would run express. The local only stations are 

164th Street

Kissena Blvd 

Main Street Elder Avenue 

College Point Blvd

108th Street

100th Street

85th Street

78th Street

Local and Express stops 

Utopia Parkway

Willets Points Blvd (transfers to flushing line)

Junction Blvd

Broadway Northern Blvd (transfers to queens blvd line)

Both trains are based out of Sunnyside Yard 

The K train would branch off Broadway stoping at 
 

31st Street (transfer to Astoria line)

21st Street 

Then a lower level at 72nd Street 2nd Avenue would be made then the K train rises up at 42nd street as the express service. 
 

The V train 

would branch using the existing 63rd street tunnel than connects to 55th Street running local with the T train.

The reasoning why I propose Northern Blvd/2nd Ave express trains using the 63rd St tunnel. Is that It would allow would allow riders coming from 6th Ave, Queens blvd, Hillside the chance to easily transfer to the 2nd Ave Subway.

2nd Avenue would be expanded to 4 tracks the K train would extend to a new Williamburg Utica Avenue  line first it would stop at Clinton Street and Bedford Avenue 

The proposed Utica Avenue line would include 8th Avenue and 2nd Avenue services

The E train would also be extended to Williamsburg using the Worth Street provisions with the stations at Worth Street Chambers Street, Chatham Square, East Broadway and finally Montgomery Street. The Benefits are that it opens up new transfer options for riders in lower Manhattan. World Trade Center terminal will continue to get service but during rush hours only. The World Trade Center would be used to terminate extra C/E train during rush hours if their isn’t capacity on the Brooklyn routes when CBTC is Installed on the 8th Avenue, Fulton street, and the proposed Williamsburg lines. So a total of 8-10 rush hour trains would terminate there 4-5 rush hour C/E trains each would be sent there. But that might limit capacity on the Fulton street and the proposed Williamsburg lines. At all other times WTC is closed so you have to take the E to canal street for an A or C train I mean the Chambers street and World Trade Center are literally the same station complex so shutting it down shouldn’t be too much of a problem, however it does have a ridership count so some people might not like the sound of being forced to transfer at Canal Street for a A/C train. The World Trade Center would still be used for emergencies or G.O work.

The E train will also make one stop at Bedford Avenue before meeting up with the K train at Havemeyer street 

This route would run south 3rd street and Utica Avenue it would be a 4 track line the E train is the local and the K train is the express. 

Local exclusive stops 

Flushing Avenue

Lafayette Avenue 

Halsey Street 

Prospect Place

Empire Blvd

Church Avenue 

Avenue D

Flatlands Avenue 

Avenue N

All local and express stops

Havemeyer Street 

Broadway South 4th street

Myrtle Avenue 

Utica Avenue Fulton Street

Crown Heights Utica Avenue 

Kings Highway 

Flatlands Avenue 

Avenue N

Kings Plaza Utica Avenue 

This proposed south 3rd street and Utica Avenue line would help balance the load of new commuters from Williamsburg, Bushwick and Bed-Stuy which currently use the L or M to get to Midtown or take the J to get to Lower Manhattan. The J train and the BMT Centre St Subway in general suffer from being built when everyone from northern Brooklyn were headed to lower Manhattan and the Financial District. Today commuting patterns have changed that now both lower Manhattan and midtown are popular designations but the high cost of new infrastructure has hampered the ability to make needed service changes. The new Williamburg line that would be served by the E and K trains would give communters more alternatives for folks in Williamburg other than having to use the congested J/Z M and L trains. And it’s would be very attractive as it offers both west side and east side access to Manhattan. 
 

Phase 4 would be build too
Hanover Square would be expanded to 4 tracks the inner tracks used for terminating trains the outer tracks used for Brooklyn service. Both the T and V trains would be extend to Fulton street local using the Court Street transit museum link. T/V meets up with the A/C at Hoyt Street the C train would be moved to the Express tracks with the A train on Broadway junction the T train would branch off to recapture the Atlantic Avenue branch and run up to Jamaica Center. The V train would continue to Euclid Avenue. The C train would be extended to Lefferts Blvd. All A trains can than be diverted to Far Rockway and Rockway Park. During Evenings/Weekends the V train would only run up to Hanover Square the C train runs local only up to Euclid Avenue. The A train also goes to Lefferts Blvd during these hours. Rockway shuttle also operates weekends and late nights. During late nights V train won’t operate at all the K train operates local in its place. Lefferts shuttle still operates during late nights.

I gotta admit this will cost FAR MORE than the current proposed second ave subway but what I trying to say is that the current plan only helps people in the east side of Manhattan travel a bit better. It does practically NOTHING for riders from The Bronx Queens or Brooklyn. I mean the biggest flaw is that there no express tracks HECK they isn’t even a third track that could be used for emergencies. Meaning that if something goes wrong at one station THE ENTIRE LINE is screwed up. I mean at least make room for the express for when ridership increases they can be build easily. The current transfers to 2nd Av require riders to use multiple stairs long corridors and transfer to multiple train routes all because planners are either too scared or don’t want to even bother design their projects to full potential. If the 2nd Ave Subway is not designed properly then it will be one of if not the most expensive mistake the MTA makes. The NYC Subway has a long history of poor planning mistakes which have limited service ever since; 2nd ave subway is the PERFECT  opportunity to redeem ourselves. 

 I’m concerned about the cost of course. But government please fund the mta. The government really needs to invest more money to the MTA.

The 2nd Ave subway is a subway line needed to not just relieve congestion along the east side of Manhattan Lexington Ave subway but also many other subways that service the entire city. My main concern about the 2nd ave proposal is that MTA will try and build the cheapest subway it can which the MTA will regret DEARLY when the population grows. The ideal for some 2nd Ave subway proposal is that it adds capacity ( 2nd ave line should be incorporated into existing lines so that existing trains could be used for improved service elsewhere)

The community and the MTA should also work together to find a solution that works out best. Costs must be brought under control cost should not be an excuse to build a less effective subway line. Transit should be built where it’s most effective not where it’s cheapest to build. 

I’ll make a map on this plan later please give feedback 

On 2/19/2021 at 4:44 PM, vanshnookenraggen said:

I figure I should jump in and defend some of my choices.

First off, the argument that the E shouldn't be extended to Fulton and Rockaway is moot because from Jamaica to Far Rock is slightly shorter than the current A from 207 to Far Rock. If you want to make the argument that the line would still be too long, I fell you but within the scope of this project (ie no big expansion) there really isn't more you can do.

You argue that there is a correlation between East NY and Harlem but in none of my census research have I found anything to support this. I'm sure there are a few people who do make this commute but not so many that a direct OSR makes all the difference. Just because the demographics are the same doesn't mean the job markets are.

What I do find is that many work close to home or in the major CBDs (downtown Brooklyn, lower Manhattan, midtown Manhattan, and Jamaica). Similarly, West Harlem and Washington Heights riders primarily work close to home (Columbia or New York-Presbyterian) or in midtown with a smaller percentage in lower Manhattan. So for uptown, the   express makes the most sense. If you really have to get downtown, switch at W 4th St. It won't add any more time.

One thing that I have come around on is Queens Blvd. In my post I presented the  as the local via 63rd St and  express via 53rd. Many people have pointed out that this strands some riders. My main concern with swapping the services is that the M runs with shorter trains due to the platforms on the Jamaica and Myrtle Lines. I do propose extending these but as a separate project. Should the Myrtle platforms be extended first then I would be happy with  express and I think it would be a better alternative.

Additionally, I've looked at extending the  up to Queens Plaza and beyond. The Twitter thread is here:  

The long short of it is that because of the location of the existing 63rd St Tunnel connection, any track extension or station expansion that would host a terminal for the would require complex engineering and most likely expensive land taking (not just the land but we are talking about heavy concrete warehouses). This isn't to say that extending the isn't feasible (all the alternatives I presented are) but that they would all be very expensive and probably not worth the cost simply to have the  terminate north of Queens Plaza. However, if this was part of a larger Northern Blvd Subway extension the costs may be justified. 

My solution was to simply add an infill station on the 63rd St Tunnel at 41st Ave right before the tunnel connects with QBL. Early plans for the super-express had a station here and given the growth of LIC I think an infill station would make sense. This way all riders can change no matter the local or express service.

Please explain to me why the hell did you extend the E train to Far Rockway there’s is no point or reason . Cause I heard that the E train is popular cause it’s route is short and more likely to show up than the F train which is the 2nd longest train behind the A train which both has headways making both unreliable. And you are making the A train a useless one borough route and the C train a useless rush hour only route. Expand the C train to full weekday. 

On 8/13/2021 at 6:06 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Well if you rebuild Rogers into a Y-Junction, sure. That isn’t a new idea (it is one that I’ve warmed up to) whatsoever as referenced here: 

http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/IRT-Nostrand-Junction-Report.pdf

also, I may be in the minority here, but I don’t see the Yard Issue being a big deal under a  to Flatbush,  Utica/New Lots alignment under the condition that the R262’s completely replaced the R62/62A’s. It would just be a similar case with the . 

It very likely that the  will use separate equipment so the  will still need a yard.

9 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Not exactly. You would have four tracks eventually merging into two. That’s in essence going to limit the amount of trains you’d have on the four-track section to the same amount as on the two-track SAS. The four-track Bronx section would be forced to run below capacity due to the four-into-two merge. 

I was thinking at 138th street the express tracks can go underneath and having two tunnels head to 2nd Avenue line with the express tracks on the lower level but realistic that will be too expensive and difficult. Rebuilding the 3rd Avenue line will definitely attract riders but Realistic the ridership won’t be high enough to justify a four track line so three tracks for peak way express service should be good enough 

Has anyone ever thought about the feasibility of building a 4 track line on Bronx 3rd Avenue line as part of a 2nd Avenue line? It will allow for maximum capacity for 2nd Avenue line. 

3 hours ago, Theli11 said:

Williamsburg Routing has 3 free out of system transfers, and I feel like that's just inconvenient and should have an actual transfer rather than forcing people to walk. You could've used a South 4th St routing and I would've been fine with it. The usefulness is there I just think it can be better utilized while having the same idea. I'm not entirely sure how i feel about 63 St, and whether or not the is sharing the track with the . (don't think there can be another tunnel for the either way).

I wanted to do that but the map qulity wasnt all that great but agreed. I made a new Williamburg Ridgewood line cause there’s isn’t any more room on the Jamaica line and due to its limitations that would either force the  to be strictly reduced to 8 cars or expanding the entire BMT Eastern Division to 10 cars. Something while would be benefiting it wouldn’t be worth the cost as it makes the SAS more complicated than it already is. And i would be happy to created a south 4th street line, But As a separate line since replacing the Jamaica Elevated will likely take a long ass time and piss off a lot of people.

For both links  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-8-fCWiQ1wWcSDvaELtA98yi9ytv5WLZPH-Hn9lqV6A/edit and https://metrodreamin.com/view/ejJSdkwzOHltdVZjWldyVjBLY05WQ1BJMW9qMXww  The comments are opened for ideas

3 hours ago, Theli11 said:

To clarify for everyone else what the routes are:

- Co-Op City - Gun Hill Road/3rd Avenue Local - 2nd Avenue Local (from 116th) - Hanover Square
 - White Plains Road/Gun Hill Road - 3rd Avenue Express - 2nd Avenue Express (Stops at 116th, 55th, 42nd, 14th St, and Houston St), - Culver Local (Delancey Essex to Church Av) 
 - Northern Blvd Local, 63 St Local, 2nd Avenue Express (55th, 42, 14, Houston) - Williamsburg Ridgewood Local (?!) 
There is also the  train and I'm assuming that's going to 125th either crosstown or just to Lexington
Most of my complaints are going to come from and trains since your train is pretty cut and dry.

Your Williamsburg Routing has 3 free out of system transfers, and I feel like that's just inconvenient and should have an actual transfer rather than forcing people to walk. You could've used a South 4th St routing and I would've been fine with it. The usefulness is there I just think it can be better utilized while having the same idea. I'm not entirely sure how i feel about 63 St, and whether or not the is sharing the track with the . (don't think there can be another tunnel for the either way).
 

I also think the can go to Euclid via Fulton St rather than via Culver, that way the will share the express while the can go on the local. 

Other than that this is pretty fair 

I tried to make a map about the routes here’s the link https://metrodreamin.com/view/ejJSdkwzOHltdVZjWldyVjBLY05WQ1BJMW9qMXww

2 hours ago, Vulturious said:

The reason why it matters that the SAS has multiple transfers is so other trains can help back it up if something happens. Say for example Broadway or 7 Av goes down, both lines have nearby stations and other lines that can help back it up and be used as an alternative. 

As for SAS running along Williamsburg, there are indeed a lot of benefits to come with this, however, an SAS line would need to replace one line which would either be the / or . No more than 2 lines can run through Williamsburg Bridge at a time, the  is just the  skipping some stops so it doesn't really count as a 3rd line. If an SAS line were to run through Williamsburg, most likely what'll happen is the  get replaced since there is a lot of demand for uptown service, while keeping an SAS service taking over Nassau. Reason is because the  is still needed along 6 Av as well as QBL to help supplement the  which is usually a hit or miss.

Well I know I posted this elsewhere but these are what I feel the routes should look like I based off of a fanast 2nd Avenue map I created https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-8-fCWiQ1wWcSDvaELtA98yi9ytv5WLZPH-Hn9lqV6A/edit https://metrodreamin.com/view/ejJSdkwzOHltdVZjWldyVjBLY05WQ1BJMW9qMXww

12 minutes ago, Theli11 said:

To clarify for everyone else what the routes are:

- Co-Op City - Gun Hill Road/3rd Avenue Local - 2nd Avenue Local (from 116th) - Hanover Square
 - White Plains Road/Gun Hill Road - 3rd Avenue Express - 2nd Avenue Express (Stops at 116th, 55th, 42nd, 14th St, and Houston St), - Culver Local (Delancey Essex to Church Av) 
 - Northern Blvd Local, 63 St Local, 2nd Avenue Express (55th, 42, 14, Houston) - Williamsburg Ridgewood Local (?!) 
There is also the  train and I'm assuming that's going to 125th either crosstown or just to Lexington
Most of my complaints are going to come from and trains since your train is pretty cut and dry.

Your Williamsburg Routing has 3 free out of system transfers, and I feel like that's just inconvenient and should have an actual transfer rather than forcing people to walk. You could've used a South 4th St routing and I would've been fine with it. The usefulness is there I just think it can be better utilized while having the same idea. I'm not entirely sure how i feel about 63 St, and whether or not the is sharing the track with the . (don't think there can be another tunnel for the either way).
 

I also think the can go to Euclid via Fulton St rather than via Culver, that way the will share the express while the can go on the local. 

Other than that this is pretty fair 

You are right the  Would go crosstown via 125th Street. The reasoning why I propose Northern Blvd/2nd Ave express trains using the 63rd St tunnel. 
Is that It would allow would allow riders coming from 6th Ave, Queens blvd, Hillside the chance to easily transfer to the 2nd Ave Subway. And it would safe money. And yeah culver ain’t the best option I was thinking that a SAS-culver link would allow for the  to run express but that would create a merge zone hence slowing down the   Yeah the Fulton street connection and making both  express is a better option. 

4 minutes ago, Theli11 said:

I think you need to make this public for us to be able to see it.

Ok I made it public. What do you think of the propose routes. Any suggestions any modifications