BrooklynBus

Just looked at it. Making Quentin one way and closing E 12 Street will only add to congestion. Only four parking spaces will be added. Also, their numbers can't be correct. Weekday ridership is 27,000 and 6,000 for B7. Assuming each passenger makes a round trip, that's 17,000 people. They say on Page 16 that 12,500 people use both routes daily in CB 15 alone. Even if they count those riding through CB 15 and not getting on or off, it isn't possible that two thirds of the riders could be in CB 15 considering the length of the routes. I wouldn't be surprised if they are counting each one way trip as a person rather than two trips as a person which would be the correct way. How many other mistakes have they made?

If it's not an SBS stop, why would they put in SBS machines?

Do you mean B82?

Well, did it help any?

I believe Park Avenue has been eliminated from every crosstown route even if there is no SBS.

Exactly. Just got a notice about a meeting at the Plumb Beach Civic Association that DOT wants to replace angle parking on Emmons Ave with a bike lane. The community will be 100 % against this and is get it goes through. De Blasio previously stated they would not put in bike lanes when the cmmunities request them. That reasoning may have worked for Park Slope and Williamsburg but Queens has been against them and they were put in anyway.

Only needs two features to qualify.

No. There is no excuse for ramming anything down a community's throat. We supposedly live in a democracy and everyone needs to be heard. By the same token, that doesn't mean communities should control everything. Sometimes their opposition can be irrational, but it is the City's/MTA's job to convince them to come around using sound data. I have been on both sides and can agree that at times communities can be a pain in the neck, but that is no reason to ignore them. The reason why so many MTA / DOT proposals are opposed by many communities is simple. Many are just bad ideas and proper data is never presented to get communities to change their minds so there if often unnecessary confrontation. As far as Schwartz and Trottenberg, I have spoken to both of them personally. I believe Schwartz is overrated in what he actually knows and I am no fan of his. Although I dislike what Trottenberg stands for and what she has done, I do not believe she is the problem. She strikes me as a nice person who is just doing what her boss, the mayor has told her to do. He is the problem, not her. If she were commissioner under a different mayor with different priorities, I believe she would be totally different. De Blasio has given her instructions to step over communities and ignore their concerns, and that's what she is doing. I have not formed an opinion regarding her stand on mass transit because I have not seen her take any position other than questioning having to make decisions on the Board without first being presented with enough factual data. But your assumption that she has to care about mass transit to have been appointed to the Board is totally naive. The decision to put her on the board was purely a political one. The MTA is still claiming they can't make buses run any faster because they have no control over traffic despite the fact that the head of DOT is on their board.

Thanks for the confidence you have in me. So far I like Byford, but I will know more in about a month.

I don't think Sam Schwartz is anything like Andy Byford, but I really can't discuss that here.

I don't see why not. But how often does DOT do what makes sense?

It was a two year federal grant that extended the B46 and. B9 on summer weekends only from about 1980 to 1982. It could have been a year earlier.

So I guess the SBS and exclusive lanes are not working.

You don't mention why it takes 90 minutes from the beach to the Junction. DOT eliminated a traffic lane south of the Belt Parkway. This lane could get returned as a general purpose lane or converted to a bus lane.

Not if requency is increased on the base portion of the route. It should moly places the service where it is needed the most.

It's hard to follow everything without maps, but you must also consider increased operating costs which need to be kept to a minimum. Sounds like extending routes to Far Rockaway involves considerable extra costs.

I was also talking about the Avenue L portion per your comments and I never said anything about "cutting off" service.

I didn't say that as if I didn't know the reason. And if the bus is a small lightly used on Avenue L as you claim, then more short services should terminate at East 16 St if any still terminate there now and they should beef up service on 60 Street. They don't need to provide equal service levels on all parts of a route if the demand is heavier at one end.

There is no reason why they should cut service. You don't consider 60 Street Bensonhurst? That part of the route has not changed since the mid-thirties. I believe it used to terminate at Bay Parkway before then from Bay Ridge with the first B21 operating along Bay Parkway and turning east onto 60 Street to E 16 St. I lived one block from Utica and Winthrop for 27 years, so I know exactly what you are talking about. The B46 going to Riis Park on summer weekends is perfectly justified. If someone is already on the subway toward Coney Island, there is no reason to get off and switch to the B2 or B9 to get to Riis Park, so I would not extend those routes there for that purpose. I'm not disagreeing with any of this so I don't know why you quoted me. What route doesn't bunch heavily?

I don't agree with you about the B9 losing ridership if it were diverted from Kings Plaza. While the B41 and B46 are jammed on weekends with Kings Plaza shoppers and the B47 as well but to a lesser extent, I see the B2 and B9 arriving and leaving nearly empty from Kings Plaza. Regarding the B9 connecting with the B46, you are correct. My mind was still back when I lived in East Flatbush and the B9 has not yet been extended to Kings Plaza which was why I never rode that bus until I was an adult living where I live today. But the connection is not optimal requiring you to go out of your way to make that connection and at least another 10 minutes added to your trip because you cannot make a direct connection at Avenue M. Extending the B9 on Avenue N helps to straighten out the grid system without causing unnecessary inconvenience. Also remember that the B9 was never extended in the first place to serve Kings Plaza because it was not needed for that purpose. People from Bensonhurst were never going to shop in Kings Plaza. What happened was that there was a federal two year grant to extend the B9 to Riis Park on summer weekends from Avenue L around 1980 and the decision t extend it was purely political. The Feds wanted to extend the B46 and the MTA thought it would be more politically acceptable if a route were also added extended from a white area as well as from a black area. The B9 wasn't nearly as well used as the B46 when the routes ran to Riis Park. When the grant ended, the MTA refused to keep either service although the B46 was always crowded. Community opposition would not let them terminate the route a Avenue L again since riders were already using it also to go to Kings Plaza so it was cut back to Kings Plaza at all times.

I appreciate what you are saying and do not disagree with you. But did you quote me because you disagree with me?

Yes, I have been proposing it since 1973. I also believe I presented it to the MTA back in 2004 and of course they rejected it just like the 40 other proposals I made the year before I retired through their Employee Suggestion Program which required them to provide written responses. None of their responses were valid. As far as the frequency, for the B9, I would start with the current frequency. All the connections the B 9 makes are a tremendous asset, especially the Brighton Line. Currently the B41 Bergen Beach branch is virtually useless to B46 passengers. Look at how much more useful it would be to a high volume route like the B46. It would provide B46 riders to access to an entire new area of Brooklyn with no added route mileage. No one currently going south or north on the B46 would transfer to the B41 in the westbound direction. That would all change if it were the B9.

I believe an extended B9 would have greater demand than the B41.

When you are trying to determine if SBS is an improvement or not, it is certainly relevant that in 1975 you never had to wait more than 15 minutes for a bus and today waiting 30 minutes for a local is a common complaint on the B46. No one can deny that the transit system hasn't kept up with changing needs of the past 40 or 60 years. And as far as congestion and double parked cars and trucks, it has been a problem as far back as I can remember. It certainly is not new. And gypsy cabs and dollar vans gave been around since 1975. Also, not new. Are you aware that midtown congestion in the 1850s before automobiles was far greater than it is today and is why the els were built? It would take an hour or more to get from like Wall Street to like 34 Street. Of course dispatching buses in hoards is dumb, but if SBS was the way to fix that, bunching on SBS routes wouldn't be almost as bad as on other routes. As far as more people going to Bergen Beach than Kings Plaza, I think that has to do with the time of day and day of week you are looking at. I highly doubt that is the case on weekends.

There has been a lot of discussion here since my last comment. I don't have the time or the inclination to study or comment on all of them so let me just add a few comments about my experiences from the 1970s that may add to this discussion. You can decide if service was worse or better then and what those experiences mean to current day service and proposals. Back then I used to ride the B46 on a daily basis and also watched it in operation for more hours than I want to count. Prior to 1975, the route was scheduled at 2 minute headways between Kings Highway and Eastern Parkway and at five or 10 minute headways at most other times. In actuality, bus bunching was quite common. The actual rush hour headway was about four buses every ten minutes, not all that horrible. And waiting at most other times was never greater than 15 minutes. As for travel times, the loading times before MetroCard and the exact fare were considerable and much greater than we see today. Rush hour traffic was bad only north of Carroll Street were the road narrowed from two lanes to one. Between President or maybe Carroll Street and Eastern Parkway no parking was permitted during the morning rush hour. On days when all drivers complied, there were no delays. Bus lanes were not necessary. However, even one single parked car delayed buses by five minutes. How does that compare with the SBS we have today? From what I have been hearing some local riders now have to wait 30 minutes for a bus. That was inconceivable in the 1970s for the B46. Regarding the B44 and Bergen Beach and how horrible the B41 is even with Limited service, and if routes should be long or short and how that affects reliability, this is what I have to offer. Around 1975, when I was at the Department of City Planning I surveyed arrival and departure times for three separate days between 4 and 7 PM on the B41. I found numerous instances where buses arriving from Downtown were routinely delayed as much as 45 minutes. The difference, however, between then and now other than the fact there was no limited service back then, was the MTA operated about six extra buses between Kings Plaza and the Junction and between Bergen Beach and the Junction in the peak direction only. The operated "not in service" during the first-peak direction to maximize the number of trips that could be provided. So even with those frequent 45 minute delays in the line haul service, passengers getting off the trains were still assured a bus every five or ten minutes at minimum. I think in their infinite wisdom to save money, the MTA eliminated those short runs in the 90s. Now they will claim SBS with its exorbitant extra costs is the answer to improving service when all that is necessary to reinstitute those rush hour short runs and probably extend them to non-rush hours as well but to operate in both directions. As far as the B9 taking over the Bergen Beach route, I proposed that in my 1973 masters thesis along with many other changes the MTA made independently, but it took them as long as 45 years to think of. These included extending the B38 to Metropolitan Ave, splitting the B61 into two routes, extending the B57 and to cover a portion of the B75 and have another route take over the east west portion to absorb the B77. ending the old B62 and creating the B43. Combining the B40 and B78, but without ending service on St Johns Place east of Ralph Avenue, extending the B11 east of 18 Ave, creating and 86 Street route, and probably a few others I can't think of right now. And there were many more ideas they still haven't done which I mentioned before. I guess I was a visionary that no one appreciated.