N6 Limited

Nice find! Since they appear to put similar destinations together, the N43 would have to go next to the N16 or N35, or use their slots, they're all on 30 min headways anyway. Early birds can study at the library . Maybe those runs are to get people to the Babylon Branch LIRR Stations?

The N23 will probably use the N27 bay, unless they rearrange the bay's. They may have the N17 use that bay again, although it's only 6 runs a day.

I wonder which bay the N43 will use at the Hempstead Bus Terminal

I just noticed that the N17 only has 4 stops! It's basically a Hospital shuttle. I guess that's why it isn't paired with the N16. Wow, the last N24 from Hicksville is at 8:22PM, that sucks for anyone that works late along Old Country Road, They may have to take the N24 to Hicksville, and Backtrack on the N22, or N49 if they're going to Hempstead. As for the N78/N79 it seems like the N79 meets up with the N24, but the N78 is whatever.

I guess it was overlooked, I went to the root directory of the new schedules and it's there: http://nicebus.com/_meta/NewRoutePDFs/NICE-April_8_n16_MapSchedule.pdf

Hmm, they have some misinformation on there. Its good! Thanks for providing the information.

They have the new schedules up! Check them out: http://nicebus.com/Maps_and_Schedules/Bus_Maps_and_Schedules/index.html So basically today's routes are the result of 1960's franchise restrictions? And if NICE attempted to restructure them there would cries of "hurting riders" SMH

I did a search and found this one: http://www.hempsteadplains.com/miditran.htm The southern portion is the N45, the northern portion is a combination of the N78/N79, N35, N22, and then Brush Hollow Road to Jericho.

The N24 becomes unreliable because of Jericho Turnpike. The N6 already has major crowding and bunching issues and you want to extend select runs to Hicksville? How does that make any sense?

You don't get it. They have a budget and efficiency to keep in mind. Extending the N43 by 2 miles accomplishes a lot more than all those other ideas do. Yes I know the N6 route very well. Many Transfer to other lines so that the bus can head back to Jamaica and do it's Job. The n17 will be timed to meet employee schedules, whatever that means, so it was probably created by reducing service on a variety of lines. it may run every 4 hours or something. No QJ, the N43 does not need Hempstead, but that isn't the point is it? The point is to provide additional service for the least amount of COST. Instead of running the 5 Mile N16 short turns which run empty when NCC is closed, they extend the N43 by 2 miles and acomplish the same thing. Buses that had to empty out at the mall will now be carrying thru passengers to Hempstead while picking up passengers at the mall. Indirect routing doesn't matter at this point. It's like the M train, its indrect but no one is riding from end to end, each side of the route serves its purpose. I disagree with your assessment, the N43 extension shows a lot of creativity. They're adding capacity, providing more service and service options between Hempstead, Roosevelt Field and NCC with LESS BUSES. They seem to understand that running empty buses is not a way to run a transit system if you want to stay in business. Who cares if the N43 is Circuitous? Its not to get people from Freeport To Hempstead, its to CONNECT ALL THE DESTINATIONS TOGETHER. Actual trip generators.

Silly. People don't learn their options. That's why when Keystone says no one he talks to like the changes, they probably don't know what they're talking about in the first place. Just like those riders who are "stranded" by FastTrack, get a grip and learn your alternatives. I remember when the LIRR Long Beach Branch was out of service because of weather/flooding and some lady had to take the train to Mineola, she was On Old country Road and County seat drive on the News talking bout "I live in Long Beach, I'm stranded, How am I going to get home!? I might have to call a cab" I was yelling at the TV, "Get on the N15!!" Imagine a cab from Mineola to Long beach, that's probably $40-60!

Easy Pay express pulls additional money when the balance isn't low enough in my opinion. I got my Unlimited Cards from 179th street or Hempstead Bus Terminal.

Selfish? I was giving an example of how the N24 routing is better for ridership and efficiency. Do you not understand that the N16 short turns are being eliminated? Do you not understand how packed the buses between NCC and Hempstead are? Do you not understand that extending one route by 15 mins provides overall better service for those going to the the Nassau Hub? Sounds like you're the selfish one. I used to attend NCC while working and I took 6 buses a day to go to work and school. I know what it's like to ride between Hempstead and NCC and how PACKED N16's could get. Sometimes a N16 and N35 would be 5 mins a part from the terminal, and if you missed them you were screwed for 20-30 mins when you had to get to class and many times the N16 came late also. There were semesters where I took evening classes and semesters where I took day classes, so I know what its like going to that school all day by bus. Believe me 3 choices will be GREAT. Especially for those with Unlimited cards that can stop by the Source Mall, Movies, Target, etc on the way home without going through the Campus Again. Also, I don't get how it's ok to have Redundancy along Old Country Road N15,22,24,78/79 west of the Mall where hardly anyone boards or alights a bus, and while you can sit on a bench and watch buses with 4 people on board, but it's not ok for Busy Corridors Between Hempstead and Roosevelt Field. Where the N35 and N43 will both be on 30 min headways and the N43 will be "covering" for other routes and providing service to other destinations.

1)If I was coming from anywhere west of Mineola Intermodal Center, I'd rather not have to transfer to get to all of the stores passed East Gate Blvd. If I go shopping at the Source Mall, Best Buy, Walmart or go out to eat at Ruby Tuesdays, It's nice to know that I could take a N24 to Queens and not have to take a bus for 5 mins to the mall then wait at the mall for a N24. 2&3) What other choices are there? Yes the N70/N71/N72 are more direct, but if you miss a N72 you can take a N43. Or you can ride with your friend after a Concert to Roosevelt Field so they can catch their bus, and you stay on to Hempstead to Catch yours. Connecting more destinations adds passenger trips. 4)Don't forget the purpose of any bus route isn't always to get from one end to the other. How many people ride from Great Neck to Lynbrook on the N25? The N43 may be "redundant" in that it connects Freeport to Hempstead, but that's not the point. The point is another way to connect NCC to Hempstead iefficiently, while also providing benefits for riders along different segments of the route. A Direct ride from Hempstead to Target,the Lowes Theater, Applebees is going to generate trips. That's on top of students that will use it because of the elimination of N16 short trips. Higher Utilization of existing trips = lower cost. Veolia is a private transport company, their goal is to keep their contract, be efficient, and increase ridership to increase revenue and lower costs. The MTA was subsidized so they didn't care. As BklynBus(?) shows all the time, the MTA thinks about saving money by cutting service, they don't take the "increase ridership" approach. That would be a false boost as most if not all riders would be going between Hempstead and NCC. And so the rest of the route would be a waste of gas and money.

1)It would still overlap the N24 which could just continue for another 30 mins to the LIRR Station, instead of having one bus go back in forth with 5 people on board. The more turn over a bus has, the more money it makes. One bus can carry 90 people if enough people get on and off along the route (example). So by extending the N24, less buses are needed to provide the same exact service, less gas used, less underutilized seats ,etc. 2) N78/N79 has split ridership. Most people west of Hicksville LIRR are not going East of Hicksville LIRR, and so the connectivity issue isn't actually an issue. West of Hicksville the N24 serves their needs, East, the N79. The N43 will serve Hempstead, Roosevelt Field, NCC, Nassau Coliseum, Hosfstra and Uniondale Ave and Freeport. It will replace N16 short turns, while providing additional options for those accessing shopping , the other areas mentioned, and even be a way to get from Roosevelt Field to the JB88 in the summer, especially when people can take the N22X, etc. Basically it provides more benefits than the N16 short turns which had no use when school was not in session. Don't forget that the N54/55 N48/49 are having frequency reductions while the N43 is having a frequency increase. 3)Because they are eliminating the N16 short turns, A 25 min long run which is useless when school is not in session is being replaced by a 15 min extension of an existing route which serves many more destinations and willl have more utilization. That simple extension provides more service to the Mall, NCC, Nassau Coliseum, etc from Hempstead. More destinations means more riders, lower cost of operation. The N78/79 to Hempstead would not have the same benefit or cost savings. There are already buses that travel between Hempstead and Hicksville, they certainly don't carry as many passengers as those going to the Mall or NCC. The N43 will serve many more potential riders. Riders going to/from the Mall, the Source Mall/Merchants Concourse, NCC, Nassau Coliseum, Hosfstra etc. Interesting, are there old maps available? How is it redundant to the N40/41 when it serves the Mall, Merchants Concourse and NCC? Many riders at the Hempstead Bus Terminal are transferring from other routes, do you think they want to transfer again at Roosevelt Field? The N6 is too busy to be adding length to the route, the longer the route the more buses needed to carry those 14k people a day. Also, don't forget that the N16 and N35 will be on 30 min headyways most likely with no short turns, as the N43 will serve that purpose. The N43 will be at 30 min headyways, they will all work together to serve the Mall and NCC to/from Hempstead accordingly. Essentialy a bus from Hempstead will serve NCC and the Mall every 10 mins, or if not at even frequencies it will be 6 buses an hour. Currently it's 5 buses an hour as the N16 with its short turns are at 20 min headways, and the N35 is at 30 min headways. The N43 is on 45 min headways, but it ends at Roosevelt Field. So by eliminating the N16 short turns, extending the N43 by 15 mins and increasing headways from 45 mins to 30 mins, they increase service to/from Hempstead by one bus an hour with more useful routings and more options for all riders between those 3 big destinations. And so, because all three routes will be serving their entire routes, on 30 min headways, they still serve their individual purpose even when school is not in session, and therefore are not wasting money with empty buses and school sensitive short turns. Folks this is about efficiency. Those N16 non -stop runs will probably be at 30 min headways. NICE has said that the non-stop runs will only run while school is in session. Those Flagged people at the Bookstore and Student Union are going to have to take a N35 or N43 instead.

I'm not sure exactly, there isn't many people on the East Meadow Trips. I guess that's why it will be rush hours only. They suggest taking the N51 when the N24 does not service East Meadow. The service is slow because of Jericho Turnpike, a many times when the bus pulls over to a stop, it gets trapped there until there's a gap in traffic. That with the traffic signals create "NYC Bus syndrome", a lot of stationary moments. I used to work near Roosevelt Field and would go to Jamaica sometimes before work. One time I took the N24, I learned my lesson, N22 always! Exactly its obvious that it will increase ridership because the route will be longer and replace another route. That's what I was trying to say to Keystone. Anyway I'm sure there will be riders traveling east of Roosevelt Field, to access the stores on Old Country Road that previously was more difficult because no bus was timed to connect with the N78/N79. I used to take whichever bus was going to East Gate Blvd First from the Mall, and then walk east from Wendy's. Keep in mind that the N24 will have the same headways to Hicksville so people may still walk, or if they're already on the N24 they can just stay on. Also, the N43's frequency will be increased to every 30 mins, that will make it easier to access the Source mall, Walmart, etc from the south side if one doesn't want to wait for the N24, as well as Target, Chillis, The Movie Theater, Sprint Store etc. If there is a lot of turn over at the Mall, that's more money/ riders for the route. There is tons of turn over at the Hempstead Bus Terminal, N15, N35, N16, N40/N41. This is how it saves money. One of the issues is that ridership West of Hicksville LIRR is greater than Ridership East of Hicksville. By extending the N24, they keep the same headways up to the LIRR station. Now they can just have the N78 run peak hours only because they don't need it to maintain 30 min headways along Old Country Road anymore, the N24 handles that. The N79 can handle the new truncated route on 1 hour headways as it has previously done. Now there is no overlap of redundant service Between Mineola and Roosevelt Field. N22, N24, N78/N79. (and N15). And no over service east of the Hicksville LIRR. If you're at Mineola Terminal and you want to go to Roosevelt Field, now you have 2 routes to use instead of "4". If you Want to go past Roosevelt Field along Old Country Road than you have to use the N24. Those 2-5 people you saw on the N78 /N79 will now have to use a N24 that was always there in the first place, usually with seats available. Same routes and people served with less buses, and more utilization. The n22, N24, N78, N79 provides that section of Old Country road with at least 10 buses an hour, during rush not including the N15, way over serviced. During the holiday season they'd all be conga lined with all the traffic. During non peak hours the N23 will go to the Mall and so, those passengers won't need to transfer at Mineola and there will be less need for service between those two points. The N43 is being extended to Hempstead to Connect the N43 to more routes, and to replace the N16 short turns between Hempstead and NCC. Now, If a rider wants to go to NCC from Hempstead, they can take the N16, N35, N43. The N16 short turns before and after the semester ends are EMPTY and a complete waste of money. By extending the N43 they have another useful extension that serves riders even when school is not in session. You know how much it sucked for me to get to the Sprint Store or the Soruce Mall from Hempstead before they modified the N35? But now it still goes along Stewart Ave and NCC first, the N43 will go there directly after the Mall. All these changes collectively save money and the routes "help" each other out. It takes into account where riders travel to/from and options they can use. Not the 1 person on the N73, but the hundreds/thousands of NCC students, Roosevelt Field Mall riders and transfer-ers, the 10's of thousands of Riders going to/from Jamaica/Flushing. Do you know which route it took? Did it go to Mineola back then?

Ridership will increase because obviously it's going to take existing N78/N79 passengers between Mineola and Hicksville. The N24 is slow because of crappy Jericho Turnpike, not because it has a particular route number. Passengers still have the option to transfer to the N22 at any point that they used to. I do ride Nassau buses, not as extensively as I used to. I usually just have conversations when we're annoyed about being flagged or if a bus is late. What have riders said to you about not liking any of the changes? Some riders didn't like the idea of NICE taking over either, they didn't want their buses terminating at the Queens border, and routes like the N6 being reduced to 30 min headways during rush and all this other nonsense, many are not informed in the first place.

http://nicebus.com/Maps_and_Schedules/Route_Information/index.html A few people need to read the bold print several times. I think they're going to "fix" that problem on Saturdays: Currently combined N20/N21 service is every 15 mins. N21 by itself is every hour. N20 to Hicksville every hour.. So I'm not sure if they will have N20's to Great Neck/Roslyn every 20 mins, and throw in a N20 to Hicksville every hour. Or if they will have 3 buses an hour with one of them going to Hicksville.

Sure they are, many routes are getting reduced mid-day frequencies. The N24 will be about the same length as the N22. According to existing schedules the N24 takes an hour from Jamaica to Roosevelt Field. The n78/79 takes about 25 mins from Roosevelt Field to Hicksville. And obviously you're not taking ridership patterns into account. If the N24 ended at Mineola, then it's ridership would drop tremendously. What about their data is flawed and inaccurate? The MTA didn't even want to merge the M and V trains until they had a budget problem. They still haven't addressed the South East Queens bus connectivity issue. The only route LIB had modified lately was the N35. And the N15's Washington Ave/County Seat Dr routing outside of court hours. They don't seem to take ridership patterns into account, just passenger COUNTS. Which means nothing if you don't know the reason for the counts.The majority of N24 riders are going to/from the Mall, cutting it to Mineola will make ridership drop. Extending it to Hicksville will actually increase ridership because there will be more overlapping trips and turn over.

That's what they plan to do. Yes, the N22 is much faster, that's why it has higher ridership and they're putting the express on that route. The N78/79 has ridership West of Hicksville LIRR, and different riders East of Hicksville LIRR. Since most people transfer at that point anyway extending the N24 makes sense. Did we look at the same PDF? What about Veolia's data has you questioning the service adjustments? You do realize that most changes are during middays and off peak times when the majority of ridership on said routes are not riding said routes? The N6 is by far the busiest route, but there are times where the bus is not packed and you can get a seat. Their data, takes time of day, the stops used, etc to make changes. For example, in the case of the N27, if no one gets on or off the bus between Hillside Ave and The Roslyn train station then the route does not have to travel along Roslyn Road and a rerouted N23 basically serves the same purpose. This impending "Chaos" is much better than having half the routes completely eliminated. Basically Nassau is broke and they didn't see a reason to raise taxes on an overtaxed population to have empty buses rolling around when the system could be run more efficiently.

Right, some people are pissed, as if they have 10's of millions of dollars to throw around. I don't get it.

This rider was interviewed at 59th street. 59th street still has service from the A and D trains. They should have asked where he was commuting from.

What do NCC student's think about the N43 being extended to Hempstead?

Large private transit company lobbies Congress to gut public transit funding - National Green Transportation | Examiner.com Another NICE article. It mentions the service adjustments so I guess it goes in this thread. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unrelated to the article above: I was thinking of how the N22/N23/N24/N27/N78/N79 route changes are kinda interesting. Right now you have the N15,N22,N14,N78/N79 running on Old Country Road from Mineola to Roosevelt Field. Basically that is too much service, because most riders are thru riding along Old Country Road. I don't see many buses stopping between County Seat Dr and One Old Country Road. Essentially there's redundant service. Also many riders who want to continue along Old Country Road have to Transfer to the N78/79. Those on the N23 wanting to go to the mall have to transfer in Mineola to to the N22/N24 or N78/79. Ok lets analyze: -N15 already a well used route, not always "full" along Old Country Road, runs frequently. Will be 15 min headyways rush; 20 mins midday. -N22: Busy route. Because of splitting of service (N22/N22A/N22l/N22X) only the N22 will serve Old Country Road. The N22A will only serve the Clinton Rd Stop, the N22L avoids it completely, N22X is express to/from the mall. Each N22 service will run every 30 mins. -N23: The N23 Will still go to Mineola during peak periods. If riders want to go to Roosevelt Field, they will have to transfer to the N22 or N24 which should have room for those passengers, Not virtually empty N78/N79's. During all other times, instead of having to deal with transferring, the N23 will go directly to the Mall, (and Hempstead) so there will be less need for Old County Road Service. -N24,N78/N79: The N78/N79 runs at a combined 30 min headyway, the N24 already runs at 30 min headways. By extending the N24 to Hicksville you provide the same service Between Mineola and Hicksville without the redundancy. It also provides a one seat ride to Jamaica without having to transfer at Roosevelt Field or Mineola. The N78/79 has large turnover at the Hicksville Train Station anyway, most ridership is west of the Hicksville LIRR but they needed the N78 for the combined 30 min headways. Now, since the N24 will provide that service, they can reduce the N78 to rush hours only as that's the only time the unique segment of the line was used, and the N79 can remain on hourly headways. If N79 ridership increases, this change will make it easier to increase N79 headways to every 45 mins at minimal cost if necessary. So now the Old Country Road corridor west of the mall, will have it's service reduced, while having buses more fully utilized and making it easier to get to all the restaurants/source mall etc, along Old Country Road. -N27: Roslyn Road is essentially a Residential street, most riders are probably thru riders between the Roslyn LIRR station and Jericho Turnpike. On the other side of the tracks the N23 is making the same journey, but serving a commercial strip. So they decided to reroute the N23 along the N27 south of Jericho Turnpike. And have anyone going towards Glen Cove make a timed Transfer at the Roslyn RR station. They probably found that most riders transfer at Mineola to go towards the Mall anyway. [if there are 15 people Northbound on the N23 from Jericho Tpke and 15 on the N27 Northbound, you might as well have 30 people on the N23 go up to the Roslyn LIRR, and have those 15 people Transfer to the N27, then when the N27 gets to Northern Blvd, more people transferring from the N20 can fill that bus up since the N21 doesn't get much riders north of Northern Blvd off peak]. Pinepower used to talk about "Crowded" N27's but those seemed to be during rush hours after missing runs and also seem to be south of Roslyn Road, the route that the modified N23 will take.

The 8th Ave FastTrack has started tonight. I guess FastTrack is old news now, there isn't much buzz about this one.