X25/X27/X28/X29/X37/X38 Timetable June 2009

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

 

 

 

File Name: X25/X27/X28/X29/X37/X38 Timetable June 2009

File Submitter: Q23 Central Terminal

File Submitted: 16 Dec 2013

File Category: Times tables

 

 

This is a timetable from June 2009, with service as is on the 6 routes at that time. The X25 and X29 no longer exist.

 

Click here to download this file

[B35 via Church]

Miss riding the x29... It having been discontinued is one of the many reasons there are as many folks sardining onto the Brighton during the work week that they have been/are now.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Miss riding the x29... It having been discontinued is one of the many reasons there are as many folks sardining onto the Brighton during the work week that they have been/are now.....

Why dont they hop on to the BM3, then, if it is the closest alternative?

[B35 via Church]

Why dont they hop on to the BM3, then, if it is the closest alternative?

From the west, the subway is closer than Ocean av.....

Maybe you have or haven't, but if you noted those that used the x29, most were of folks that lived west of CI av.....

 

In other words, from CI av & points west, it would have been more of a trek to get to the BM3, than to get to the .....

I don't doubt you had a few former x29 pax make their way to the BM3, but I do not believe it was the majority of former x29 pax.....

 

These folks knew that with the discontinuation of the route, the next alternative would have been that of the subway, not the BM3 - Even though the BM3 is the closest express bus route.....

 

I'll give you another example of the point.... if the BM2 were to be cut, you're not gonna get Canarsie riders to backtrack to the BM5.... They'd (current BM2 riders in that area) likely become one of the many that take B103's (or B6's) to the junction for the (2)/(5), or {[b17's to the & xfer to whatever other subway line(s) afterwards], or to Eastern Pkwy. for the }.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

From the west, the subway is closer than Ocean av.....

Maybe you have or haven't, but if you noted those that used the x29, most were of folks that lived west of CI av.....

 

In other words, from CI av & points west, it would have been more of a trek to get to the BM3, than to get to the .....

I don't doubt you had a few former x29 pax make their way to the BM3, but I do not believe it was the majority of former x29 pax.....

 

These folks knew that with the discontinuation of the route, the next alternative would have been that of the subway, not the BM3 - Even though the BM3 is the closest express bus route.....

 

I'll give you another example of the point.... if the BM2 were to be cut, you're not gonna get Canarsie riders to backtrack to the BM5.... They'd (current BM2 riders in that area) likely become one of the many that take B103's (or B6's) to the junction for the (2)/(5), or B17's to the & xfer to whatever other subway line(s) afterwards, or to Eastern Pkwy. for the .....

Ah, okay. See, this is why (if it was run by NYC Transit at the time & not MTA Bus) I would've had the BM4 run up/down Coney Island Avenue instead of Nostrand (but those stops on the BM4 not close to the BM1 or Quentin Road; I have no clue of ridership patterns during the rush. I also had this proposal for quite a while), to maintain partial service, and a BM3 Extention to Brighton Beach during the rush hours as well. This is why I also think the merger should've been made earlier than the current rate.

 

It would make route changes (as well as garage moves) much easier to do so. The prime example would be the BM's, since the BM3 is closer to UP than SC, and so is the BM4. The BM1 is closest to Flatbush Depot (but I don't know if Flatbush can hold those routes). Or it can just make SC have the BM2 and BM5, since those are the closest, and the BM1/3/4 go to UP. Therefore, some of the local routes outta UP would be moved around, and so on and so forth (the B13 NB literally stops right at Spring Creek Depot). But that's for another story.

 

I found that the X29 was one of those "once powerful" but "now weak" routes. It had service to Sea Gate (because that was the original terminal, X28's terminate at Crospey Avenue and Canal Avenue. But then it was cut down to Brighton Beach, service would transfer to the X28 rush hours and weekends (overall more service). I don't know if that was a good idea, but Im guessing that service was cut down good towards the final years. Just like X51, you had buses going to Queens that started at 3:00 PM, still running at 11:00 PM, buses running on 10 minute headways (hell the QM3 had more ridership and ran every 20-30 minutes at the time), etc. The last inbound bus would also leave Queens at 10:08 AM (the last schedule before being discontinued however showed a decrease of about 20%). They only reduced the buses by one bus per hour. In total I think 5 buses were disconti used from 2005 to 2009.

[B35 via Church]

Ah, okay. See, this is why (if it was run by NYC Transit at the time & not MTA Bus) I would've had the BM4 run up/down Coney Island Avenue instead of Nostrand (but those stops on the BM4 not close to the BM1 or Quentin Road; I have no clue of ridership patterns during the rush. I also had this proposal for quite a while), to maintain partial service, and a BM3 Extention to Brighton Beach during the rush hours as well. This is why I also think the merger should've been made earlier than the current rate.

 

It would make route changes (as well as garage moves) much easier to do so. The prime example would be the BM's, since the BM3 is closer to UP than SC, and so is the BM4. The BM1 is closest to Flatbush Depot (but I don't know if Flatbush can hold those routes). Or it can just make SC have the BM2 and BM5, since those are the closest, and the BM1/3/4 go to UP. Therefore, some of the local routes outta UP would be moved around, and so on and so forth (the B13 NB literally stops right at Spring Creek Depot). But that's for another story.

I don't wanna get into route proposals/moves right now, but what you're mentioning as far the BM4, that would've been counter-productive with why the MTA wanted to rid itself of the route..... In so many words, Oh, it's right by the - Oh, so what.... smh.... This is one of the many examples where the MTA worsens bus service to try to force ppl. onto rails..... And they usually succeed with it too....

 

 

I found that the X29 was one of those "once powerful" but "now weak" routes. It had service to Sea Gate (because that was the original terminal, X28's terminate at Crospey Avenue and Canal Avenue. But then it was cut down to Brighton Beach, service would transfer to the X28 rush hours and weekends (overall more service). I don't know if that was a good idea, but Im guessing that service was cut down good towards the final years. Just like X51, you had buses going to Queens that started at 3:00 PM, still running at 11:00 PM, buses running on 10 minute headways (hell the QM3 had more ridership and ran every 20-30 minutes at the time), etc. The last inbound bus would also leave Queens at 10:08 AM (the last schedule before being discontinued however showed a decrease of about 20%). They only reduced the buses by one bus per hour. In total I think 5 buses were disconti used from 2005 to 2009.

I wouldn't say powerful per se, but more adequate (despite how many on the transit boards [plural] used to belittle/under-exaggerate its usage).... Also, service didn't end in Brighton Beach, service still ended at Stillwell/Surf before it got cut....

 

But to address the concern in bold..... What happened was, they increased the overall service span (the first outbound bus left manhattan earlier & the last bus left later than it needed to), but decreased frequency when the route was needed most (during the "meat" of the rush hour)... In other words, running buses to where it would be more useless than what it once was to justify cutting it..... So they didn't cut a boatload of trips, what they did was actually sneakier.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1.I don't wanna get into route proposals/moves right now, but what you're mentioning as far the BM4, that would've been counter-productive with why the MTA wanted to rid itself of the route..... In so many words, Oh, it's right by the - Oh, so what.... smh.... This is one of the many examples where the MTA worsens bus service to try to force ppl. onto rails..... And they usually succeed with it too....

 

 

2.I wouldn't say powerful per se, but more adequate (despite how many on the transit boards [plural] used to belittle/under-exaggerate its usage).... Also, service didn't end in Brighton Beach, service still ended at Stillwell/Surf before it got cut....

 

3.But to address the concern in bold..... What happened was, they increased the overall service span (the first outbound bus left manhattan earlier & the last bus left later than it needed to), but decreased frequency when the route was needed most (during the "meat" of the rush hour)... In other words, running buses to where it would be more useless than what it once was to justify cutting it..... So they didn't cut a boatload of trips, what they did was actually sneakier.....

1. Of course the MTA succeeds, the express bus costs more per passenger, so that's the first to leave.

2/3. Oh yeah, just realized that. But cutting the buses during the most used hours and adding more outside does seem as an attempt to eliminate the route or reduce it. I was (and still to this day) question myself why other express routes with subway alternatives weren't affected (besides the QM22 or X51), if that was their motive, while they wanted to discontinue the B25 and reduce Q56 service as well to almost nothing. 

[B35 via Church]

1. Of course the MTA succeeds, the express bus costs more per passenger, so that's the first to leave.

 

2/3. Oh yeah, just realized that. But cutting the buses during the most used hours and adding more outside does seem as an attempt to eliminate the route or reduce it. I was (and still to this day) question myself why other express routes with subway alternatives weren't affected (besides the QM22 or X51), if that was their motive, while they wanted to discontinue the B25 and reduce Q56 service as well to almost nothing. 

1) I'm talking about with buses period (local or express)... In this particular case, it's with the express....

 

3) There's no "but" about it - That's the exact point I'm making....

 

They increased the span (to make it seem like they're catering to more riders), but decreased the amount of trips to where the most usage already existed.... When people realized they had to wait even longer for the x29, they already delved into partaking into whatever alternate commute they chose.... Which justified them axing the route..... Mission accomplished, in so many words......

 

In other words, they weren't catering to more riders by increasing the span (because let's face it, what masses in the workforce get off work around 2-3pm?), they were doing nothing more than exacerbating commutes for the current/"established" riders.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1) I'm talking about with buses period (local or express)... In this particular case, it's with the express....

 

3) There's no "but" about it - That's the exact point I'm making....

 

They increased the span (to make it seem like they're catering to more riders), but decreased the amount of trips to where the most usage already existed.... When people realized they had to wait even longer for the x29, they already delved into partaking into whatever alternate commute they chose.... Which justified them axing the route..... Mission accomplished, in so many words......

 

In other words, they weren't catering to more riders by increasing the span (because let's face it, what masses in the workforce get off work around 2-3pm?), they were doing nothing more than exacerbating commutes for the current/"established" riders.....

1. Alright

 

3. I don't see the point of increasing the span and decreasing the service. If the objective was to eliminate it, they should have done without any gimmicks, so to speak. The MTA though is unpredictable though. However as of late, the MTA has been just cutting service, straight up, when they do. When they add the service, yeah, they tamper the last few buses before the added trip is made to have a wider headway overall. The most recent change was that on the X17 (service to Manhattan ends 30 minutes later, to just even out a weird group of buses which were like 9 minutes behind each other).