MTA Researcher Posted November 10, 2021 Share #1 Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) For those that don't know me; I have aspergers, so please excuse my weirdness. I made a post a while ago on Deinterline NYC Subway Attempt. I made revisions to this idea. Check them out! A- Jamaica Ctr - Rock Park: Queens Blvd Exp - 8 Av Exp - Fulton St Exp H- Jamaica 179 St - Lefferts: Hillside Exp - Queens Blvd Exp - 8 Av Exp - Fulton St Lcl K- Jamaica 179 St - Far Rock: Hillside Lcl - Queens Blvd Exp - 8 Av Exp - Fulton St Exp C- Bedford Pk Blvd/145 St - WTC: CPW/8 Av Lcl E- 168 St - WTC: CPW/8 Av Lcl B- 205 St - Coney Island: Concourse Exp (RH) - CPW/6 Av Exp - Brighton Lcl Q- 207 St - Bay Ridge: CPW/6 Av Exp - 4 Av Lcl F- Forest Hills - Coney Island: Queens Blvd Lcl - 6 Av Lcl - Culver Exp G- Forest Hills - Kings Hwy: Queens Blvd Lcl - Ctown Lcl - Culver Lcl J- Jamaica Ctr - Chambers St: Nassau St Exp - Skip-Stop with Z M- Metropolitan Av - Brighton Beach - Nassau St Lcl - Brighton Exp Z- Jamaica Ctr - 9 Av: Nassau St Exp - Skip-Stop with J - 4 Av Lcl N- 96 St - Coney Island - Bway/4 Av Exp via Sea Beach R- Forest Hills - Coney Island - Queens Blvd Lcl - Bway/4 Av Exp via West End W- Astoria Ditmars - Whitehall St: Astoria Lcl - Bway Lcl Explanation: I had a hunch people would like CPW/6 Av Exp more than the CPW/8 Av Exp, so I delivered such, however since A train had to move away to QBL to retain express dignity; I decided to scrap the D. If A has to give up Inwood then D must give up Norwood! MUAHAHA (Please excuse my weirdness lol). Anyways.... I feel like this is the best config as A H K clear up confusion betweeen Lefferts and the Rockaways. C E remain local all the way. I wanted to put B to Bay Ridge and Q to Coney but I have a feeling that Bronx folks wont be happy as they lose direct access to Coney. Please confirm if this is true. Either way Bay Ridge is now happy as they have their own express in the form of 6 Av Exp Q. Coming to QBL; express tracks come from 53rd St inherently. Anything elsewhere has to be local. 63rd St is a wild card; it has the option to go either exp or lcl, but if one line goes exp then the other must do so and vice versa. So I feel that F and R from 63rd St and G from 60th St forming the QB Lcl is the best way to go. This allows for R train from 63 st coming to 57 st 7 av with N train following suite to go together express, leaving astoria to the W. I feel like the NRW should follow a service pattern like that of 456. Moving on... M train gives some kind of express service to the financial district by becoming Brighton Exp. Next I am still trying to figure out the J/Z routes.... maybe J joins B in Brighton, but then M is cut back to Chambers St and Z goes to 4 Av to help the lonely local Q train. Lastly, I want to give F train some speed by granting Culver Exp, thus not becoming the current extremely local R train. This explains why I extended the G to Kings Hwy. What are your thoughts? Edited November 10, 2021 by MTA Researcher 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted November 10, 2021 Share #2 Posted November 10, 2021 29 minutes ago, MTA Researcher said: For those that don't know me; I have aspergers, so please excuse my weirdness. I made a post a while ago on Deinterline NYC Subway Attempt. I made revisions to this idea. Check them out! A- Jamaica Ctr - Rock Park: Queens Blvd Exp - 8 Av Exp - Fulton St Exp H- Jamaica 179 St - Lefferts: Hillside Exp - Queens Blvd Exp - 8 Av Exp - Fulton St Lcl K- Jamaica 179 St - Far Rock: Hillside Lcl - Queens Blvd Exp - 8 Av Exp - Fulton St Exp C- Bedford Pk Blvd/145 St - WTC: CPW/8 Av Lcl E- 168 St - WTC: CPW/8 Av Lcl B- 205 St - Coney Island: Concourse Exp (RH) - CPW/6 Av Exp - Brighton Lcl Q- 207 St - Bay Ridge: CPW/6 Av Exp - 4 Av Lcl F- Forest Hills - Coney Island: Queens Blvd Lcl - 6 Av Lcl - Culver Exp G- Forest Hills - Kings Hwy: Queens Blvd Lcl - Ctown Lcl - Culver Lcl J- Jamaica Ctr - Chambers St: Nassau St Exp - Skip-Stop with Z M- Metropolitan Av - Brighton Beach - Nassau St Lcl - Brighton Exp Z- Jamaica Ctr - 9 Av: Nassau St Exp - Skip-Stop with J - 4 Av Lcl N- 96 St - Coney Island - Bway/4 Av Exp via Sea Beach R- Forest Hills - Coney Island - Queens Blvd Lcl - Bway/4 Av Exp via West End W- Astoria Ditmars - Whitehall St: Astoria Lcl - Bway Lcl Explanation: I had a hunch people would like CPW/6 Av Exp more than the CPW/8 Av Exp, so I delivered such, however since A train had to move away to QBL to retain express dignity; I decided to scrap the D. If A has to give up Inwood then D must give up Norwood! MUAHAHA (Please excuse my weirdness lol). Anyways.... I feel like this is the best config as A H K clear up confusion betweeen Lefferts and the Rockaways. C E remain local all the way. I wanted to put B to Bay Ridge and Q to Coney but I have a feeling that Bronx folks wont be happy as they lose direct access to Coney. Please confirm if this is true. Either way Bay Ridge is now happy as they have their own express in the form of 6 Av Exp Q. Coming to QBL; express tracks come from 53rd St inherently. Anything elsewhere has to be local. 63rd St is a wild card; it has the option to go either exp or lcl, but if one line goes exp then the other must do so and vice versa. So I feel that F and R from 63rd St and G from 60th St forming the QB Lcl is the best way to go. This allows for R train from 63 st coming to 57 st 7 av with N train following suite to go together express, leaving astoria to the W. I feel like the NRW should follow a service pattern like that of 456. Moving on... M train gives some kind of express service to the financial district by becoming Brighton Exp. Next I am still trying to figure out the J/Z routes.... maybe J joins B in Brighton, but then M is cut back to Chambers St and Z goes to 4 Av to help the lonely local Q train. Lastly, I want to give F train some speed by granting Culver Exp, thus not becoming the current extremely local R train. This explains why I extended the G to Kings Hwy. What are your thoughts? This is in no way "the best config." Let's start off focusing on 8 Av for a moment: 3 different lines that are running through 2 different tunnels, the A, H, and K. All of which runs local along Hillside Av only to merge back onto QBL Express (not a bad idea), but another line also running along QBL which would most likely be how the E currently runs express during weekdays east of Forest Hills to Jamaica Center. Then you got those 3 lines sharing the same track all the way through QBL, via 53 St tunnel, 8 Av Express, via Cranberry St tunnel, then via Fulton with one of them splitting off to run local and all back into Queens again to run to their respective branches. The local service along Fulton is remerging back with the 2 other lines. All 3 lines are very long. You won't be able to run any of these lines efficiently because all of them are sharing the same track running through the same tunnel and some of them splitting up and remerging again. This is apparent with the H and overall just straight up redundant. Big issues with Dekalb Av: Biggest issue is nothing is de-interlined. B trains don't have much issues going on with it except for the M and Q. The M would have to merge with the B between Dekalb Av and Prospect Park. This is an unnecessary merge. Not sure what exactly is going on with the Q, I can't tell if it's running straight local from Dekalb Av or through a new switch on 4 Av since it wasn't made clear. Regardless, you have 3 other lines interfering with it. Assuming the Q is running local straight from Dekalb, we'll start from Bay Ridge, making it's way up toward 36 St mixing in with the W (noted later on) and Z trains. Now, it's going to continue with 2 other lines all the way until Dekalb Av where it meets up with the B on the other side of the platform. Unfortunately, it might have to wait for the W or Z to clear first before entering Dekalb, and even then the Q would have probably have to wait for the M to clear into Dekalb. So assuming the W and Z is in front of the Q, the Q would be waiting a good while. Even after all that, the Q still has to wait for the B to clear when trying to depart from Dekalb Av to get onto the Manhattan Bridge. Of course, after all that, the Q is basically free until 145 St where it's splitting off from the B to go to its respective terminal. Everything else: F trains cannot be running express along Culver because there is literally not enough demand for more express service compared to local service. There is a reason why the current F express service doesn't run more than 2 times a day in the peak direction. It is also due to the fact that the F is the only other direct service that is going into Manhattan. G trains also can't really extend towards Kings Highway for the same reason, no demand for it since everyone wants direct Manhattan service. Brown M returning just can't happen anymore, especially running back along Brighton after a few decades later. There is a reason it was moved to West End, even then, there isn't enough incentive to keeping any Nassau service along Brighton. You also have the issue of Brighton not having enough capacity to run express service along Brighton or any line with 10 car long stations (600 feet). It will literally be carrying air. The same thing is happening here with the Z where no one is going to be taking it, it would be better to extend it further along West End to Bay Parkway since West End would value it more than 4 Av. Regardless, it'll be carrying air than passengers. Why is the W not running to Coney Island? Why the hell is the R in South Brooklyn still? Replace it with the W because it still doesn't have direct yard access and cut back the R to Whitehall or City Hall. It doesn't need to go into Brooklyn anymore since all other branches in Brooklyn is covered. Keep the R local on Broadway, it doesn't need to run express either with the W local as well continuing onto 4 Av local via Montague (because I assume you have nothing covering the Broadway connection from Brooklyn into downtown Manhattan) and running to West End. Overall, this whole thing is just a mess and doesn't help anything except for certain areas. Nothing is de-interlined and even when they are, there is more interlining or unnecessary interlining involved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share #3 Posted November 11, 2021 (edited) Post withdrawn due to duplication Edited November 11, 2021 by MTA Researcher Check Quoted Reply 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share #4 Posted November 11, 2021 21 hours ago, Vulturious said: This is in no way "the best config. All right then, how about this: A - Inwood - Far Rock (no lefferts) B - Current Service Unchanged C - 168 St - Lefferts D - Norwood - Coney Island - (Brighton Lcl) E - Current Service Unchanged F - Jamaica 179 St - Coney Island (via 53rd St) G - Current Service Unchanged J - Jamaica Ctr - Bay Ridge: Jamaica Lcl - 4 Av Lcl <J> Jamaica Exp (Z line scrapped) L - Current Service Unchanged M - Forest Hills - Metropolitan Av (via 63rd St) N - 96 St - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via Sea Beach Q - Forest Hills - Whitehall St: Queens Blvd Lcl - Bway Lcl via 60 St R - Forest Hills - Coney Island: Queens Blvd Lcl - Bway/4 Av Exp via West End W - Current Service Full Time Based on your feedback I feel like CPW can’t be deinterlined. QBL looks deinterlined to me. Broadway is deinterlined. I heeded your advice on Dekalb; BD to Brighton, NR to 4 Av Exp, J to 4 Av Lcl. Btw you were right on Brown M carrying air; today I took the R train to 59 St / 4 Av in the midday and I was the only one in a train car. If Z train is basically the J train, why not convert it to <J>? Let it work like the 6 or 7 trains. How did I do this time? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted November 11, 2021 Share #5 Posted November 11, 2021 19 hours ago, MTA Researcher said: All right then, how about this: A - Inwood - Far Rock (no lefferts) B - Current Service Unchanged C - 168 St - Lefferts D - Norwood - Coney Island - (Brighton Lcl) E - Current Service Unchanged F - Jamaica 179 St - Coney Island (via 53rd St) G - Current Service Unchanged J - Jamaica Ctr - Bay Ridge: Jamaica Lcl - 4 Av Lcl <J> Jamaica Exp (Z line scrapped) L - Current Service Unchanged M - Forest Hills - Metropolitan Av (via 63rd St) N - 96 St - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp via Sea Beach Q - Forest Hills - Whitehall St: Queens Blvd Lcl - Bway Lcl via 60 St R - Forest Hills - Coney Island: Queens Blvd Lcl - Bway/4 Av Exp via West End W - Current Service Full Time Based on your feedback I feel like CPW can’t be deinterlined. QBL looks deinterlined to me. Broadway is deinterlined. I heeded your advice on Dekalb; BD to Brighton, NR to 4 Av Exp, J to 4 Av Lcl. Btw you were right on Brown M carrying air; today I took the R train to 59 St / 4 Av in the midday and I was the only one in a train car. If Z train is basically the J train, why not convert it to <J>? Let it work like the 6 or 7 trains. How did I do this time? So from what you said about CPW not being deinterlined, I assume CPW is keeping it's current service as well as 6 Av and 8 Av. I assume trains are rerouted back to 53 St staying express with the which does help a lot. There was a rumor about trains planned on being rerouted via 63 St with trains covering that station during overnights and weekend. This isn't a bad combination and reduces the amount of merging going on. Unfortunately, this combinations is screwed because 60 St still has 3 lines. I would personally just rename the as the and have the go into Brooklyn. No one in Bay Ridge is going to be sticking with the , they'll get off taking an express train the first chance they get like they currently do with the . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted November 11, 2021 Share #6 Posted November 11, 2021 Agreed. 60th St is stuck with three lines unless both the and go to 2nd Ave or the is removed from the QBL. And yes, the won’t be a better substitute for the in South Brooklyn. I second that riders will dump it at the first express stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share #7 Posted November 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Vulturious said: I would personally just rename the as the and have the go into Brooklyn. Let me get this straight: Regarding the Broadway Lines N - Proposed Service Unchanged Q - Forest Hills - Bay Ridge: via 60 st and Montague - Bway/4 Av Lcl R - Forest Hills - Coney Island: via 63rd st and Manhattan Bridge - Bway/4 Av Exp via West End W - Proposed Full Time Service Unchanged Is this better? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted November 12, 2021 Share #8 Posted November 12, 2021 2 hours ago, MTA Researcher said: Let me get this straight: Regarding the Broadway Lines N - Proposed Service Unchanged Q - Forest Hills - Bay Ridge: via 60 st and Montague - Bway/4 Av Lcl R - Forest Hills - Coney Island: via 63rd st and Manhattan Bridge - Bway/4 Av Exp via West End W - Proposed Full Time Service Unchanged Is this better? Wait, wait, wait, hang on a minute, I just realized you have 3 local lines along QBL. Yeah, no that ain't gonna cut it. You need to remove one of the Broadway service from QBL or entirely. Forest Hills can't turn more than 20 trains per hour, especially with 3 different lines running to it, one being express and the other being local along Broadway. Then you got the issue of interlining yet again along QBL. The (which is literally the , you need to swap both lines because there's no reason in running the to Bay Ridge when the same exact service is running around) running via 60 St into Queens Plaza to mix with the and (let's call this the at this point). The running via 63 St while also mixing in with the hinders it's service even further. So basically, the only thing that is de-interlined is just QBL express. You also have an issue with the because it is also a full time line, but still has to make a long run from Whitehall St all the way to Coney Island. Unless it's running to Bay Parkway or 9 Av, this just isn't a good idea. Another point I want to make is the slowdown going in and out of Lexington Av-63 St. The and alone would be fine since they already merged back in Brooklyn, but another line is added into the equation, that being the . The has to merge onto the other side of the platform at Lexington, with the already coming in from the other side which is the 6 Av side. All 3 lines entering Lexington Av is going to have delays, the and are fine, but the makes this more complicated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Researcher Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share #9 Posted November 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Vulturious said: Wait, wait, wait, hang on a minute, I just realized you have 3 local lines along QBL. Yeah, no that ain't gonna cut it. All right then, how about this: N/W - 96 st - Coney Island: Bway/4 Av Exp: N via Sea Beach, W via West End Q - Astoria - Bay Pkwy: All local via Montague R - Retains current service R.I.P Express R train I don’t like yellow Q train, so I’m going to downgrade it to local… 😈 Welcome back 2001-04 W Express! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted November 12, 2021 Share #10 Posted November 12, 2021 Like I said from the previous thread Deinterlining should make the system easier to understand, not harder. Simply put, there should be LESS lines/letters and more frequency on each line. Your proposal adds more lines and more complex service patterns 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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