LTA1992

First off, Yonkers is a city, not state. Second, Bee-Line enters the city to connect Westchester residents to the transit system here, nothing more. If Westchester builds their own rapid transit, it will just barely come into NYC and it would only be to connect with the subway. NYC residents wouldn't care if they built there own because we have our own issues.

Now now, I won't go as far to say that the residents of Westchester would protest an elevated since they've never had rapid transit before. Especially with the new, more environmentally pleasing, and noise reducing designs that exist these days, an elevated system could suffice. This would be especially true if the lines ran over the highways with feeder buses travelling to them.

No it's not. Those two things don't even connect because constructing SAS deals with some problems within the current system. Westchester is outside the corporate limits of NYC, therefore, more legalities come into a project like that. Secondly, if it was that easy, then LaGuardia would have done something like that when the NYW&B was purchased. The Mayor of New Rochelle asked if service on that ROW could be extended and LaGuardia replied that he has issues within the city that needs to be addressed and he cannot run Westchester. Which makes sense. That's like caring for another family member before you've fixed your own issues.

Why should the NYC subway go into Westchester when it still as it's own problems to solve here?

Me at work yesterday with two of my co-workers. And with us, are Erinn Westbrook (Glee) who's wringing my neck and Avan Jogia (Victorious & Twisted) as we shoot season of Reel Works TV which will air on NYCLife later this year. The final episode of which will feature my short documentary, This Is: Connections.

To Panda-kun, Rockefeller Center covers three blocks, so a 4 block station makes more sense. In my case, both stations are surrounded by a variety of residential and commercial areas as well as one college that the 61st Street station will serve. --------------------- The final part for the Bronx extensions of the new Trunk Line. This is the southern portion of the Bronx lines. This plan includes the Concourse connection. As a result of that re-tooling, the Boston Road line was reduced to two tracks. The South Bronx Line. Local trains terminate at White Plains Road. Express trains run out to Throgs Neck. The Allerton Avenue and Boston Road Lines. Originally, the Boston Road line cut through Bronx Park. I've since decided to follow the route as planned by the BOT for the IND Second Phase. The new routing is via Morris Park and Laconia Avenues and running into Boston Road further north. The northern extremes of the Boston Road Line. This line could potentially replace the Dyre Avenue line which would allow more trains to serve WPR. The northern portion of the 3 Avenue Trunk Line. The southern limits of the Allerton Avenue and Riverdale lines. The northern Riverdale Line. This is the end of my First Avenue proposal. I can now truly begin work on my second phase.

1st Avenue Trunk Line---Brooklyn and Queens Extensions Here is a general map of the areas covered. Major and/or key stations are marked. In the original post for these extensions, I remarked that this was to assume the money and approval was gained to build a new street. My alternative to the South 4th Street routing is to tunnel under Broadway as that elevated would be replaced by this line anyway. This map shows the S 4 Street routing. ------------------------------ This is the South 4th Street Line. Originally, I had a station at both Graham Avenue as well as Flushing. But. I've decided to axe the Flushing Avenue station. A transfer would be provided to the at Union Avenue as planned by the BOT. The northern limits of both the Bushwick-Pennsylvania and Utica Avenue Lines. The construction of the Bushwick-Pennsylvania Line would lead to the truncation of the route to Broadway Junction. The lower Bushwick-Pennsylvania Line. Transfers on this line would mostly exist to funnel passengers away from the routes to a new route to Manhattan. Therefore, transfers are made to the routes to funnel people away from the crowded Broadway Junction station. The Livonia Avenue transfer would rectify a problem where there is no transfer beterrn the and routes. The central Utica Avenue Line. Transfers to the Fulton and Eastern Parkway Lines are available. There is an error here that I didn't notice it was too late. The , blue, was actually supposed to serve Kings Plaza and expresses were to serve Nostrand Avenue. The Nostrand Avenue branch. The Myrtle-Merrick Lines western end. This line will replace the Myrtle Elevated south of Myrtle-Wyckoff. There would be a shuttle running between Metropolitan and Wyckoff. The central portion of the line. The portion that passes through Jamaica. I'm thinking that the only transfers between the new line with the and should be in the Jamaica area. The southernmost portion. This is the end of the Brooklyn and Queens extensions. The next and last will be The Bronx.

Coverage and accessibility mostly. Doing that, in my opinion, warrants an express station if it's going to be 4 blocks long. I mean, I think on the side of the people. Losing a second station in this area, hypothetically speaking like it's a thing, would piss people off. Last I checked, East Side residents are very vocal in their wants and needs. This is going on the assumption that the resulting gap in distance between the 57th-61st Street station would be loo long and residents would not be happy and would request an added station anyway. Also, having these two stations could eventually lead to transfers, however long, with the 53rd and 63rd street lines.

CenSin, the maps you've requested have arrived. The details are for those who have not read my original posts. Phase II is still under construction and as of yesterday, I've not only decided how a direct Bronx-Queens line can be achieved (independent of Triboro RX), but have decided that the would serve it. -------------- Here are my finalized plans for the Manhattan portion of the 1st Avenue Trunk Line system. This is the first of three phases in my expansion plans. Of this system, the Manhattan portion has seen the least change. Those who have seen my original posts about these plans will remember that this line would be 6-Tracks on two levels. The upper level would host 4-Tracks while the lover level would be two and host the super express trains. This is my proposal for a new set of lines that converge into a 1st Avenue Trunk Line. The idea came to me when I realized that the current Second Avenue subway plans won't truly solve the East Side subway problem, being only two tracks. Even if it is extended to another borough, at max, it can only hold three services. The and on the upper section. Then the and a possible line from Queens on the lower portion. Being an all local, how attractive could it really be to those passing through Manhattan? The First Avenue Subway is a plan that adds 7 routes to the system that will serve not only Manhattans East side, but also serve The Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens. The Trunk Line in Manhattan will be a six track line and will consist of two levels. The upper level will contain 4 tracks and host regular local and express services. A two track lower level will host super express trains. An 8th route will be a line that runs via a spur from the 8th Avenue line and adding a local service to a trunk line in Williamsburg. Let's just pretend this city has money and can demolish buildings to make a new street. Yeah, let's do that. When it comes to services, there aren't enough letters in the alphabet, so I've taken the from Jamaica. Sorry passengers, but PROGRESS! The line in Manhattan will be six tracks from the Harlem River to just about East 5th Street. At Houston Street, the line will split, with 6 tracks running east via Houston to Brooklyn, and two tracks will continue downtown to Fulton Center. Super Express Lines: H and K Express Lines: P, and U Local Routes (In Manhattan): V, W, and Z 8th Avenue Spur and 2nd Brooklyn Local: E [The World Trade Center Station will no longer be in use for regular service] Some details on station locations: 125th Street pretty much sits under the Triborough Bridge. It provides transit for the adjoining housing projects. 70th and 29th Street stations are to serve hospitals in the area. 70th is Express because it serves more hospitals. 20th Street exists to give the residents of Peter Cooper village and Stuyvesant Town more transit options. The line will include provisions for connections to the Northern Boulevard and 57th Street-Crosstown Lines as well as the 5th Avenue (Brooklyn)-Staten Island line in Lower Manhattan. At 54th Street, the upper level would widen to 6 tracks, and track ramps would head to the Super Express Level. At that point, the upper level would go back to 4 tracks wide and the lower level would also be 4 tracks wide. After a provision for a crossover between the Super Express tracks and the provision, the future trackways would begin to descent and cut off in preparation for connecting with the phase II Northern Boulevard Line which would travel via a tunnel connecting 57th Street in Manhattan with 43rd Avenue in Queens. In Lower Manhattan, in the original plans, there would have been a provision for the SI line to travel from the Lower Manhattan Branch to Chrystie Street. In my retooling, the SI line would get it's own, limited stop, line in Brooklyn. At East 5th Street, the upper level would widen to 6-tracks. Connections from both the local and express tracks would be made and the tracks would ramp down to the lower level. A connection would be made form the Super Express tracks and the two extra tracks would ramp down to a third level, with the tracks moving under the Super Express tracks. Meanwhile, right after the SI provision ramps ramped down, the Lower Manhattan Branch tracks would branch from the Local and Express tracks an ramp down to the third level, which would be 4 tracks wide. When the Main and Super Exp level are under private property while turning onto Houston Street, the Lower Manhattan tracks would rise to an upper level. The Houston Street station on the Lower Manhattan branch would be two levels, with the lower level not being in service until SI service begins. ------------------------------------------------ Lower Manhattan branch service would end at Church Street and Park Row with a connecting passageway to Fulton Center allowing free transfers. Above is the general view of the borough and the stations. Everyone knows the station symbols, but I will note that the white squares indicate Super Express stations. The Upper East Side stations The East Midtown stations. 57th Street would feature a transfer to the Phase II Northern Blvd Line. 42nd Street would get a transfer with the GCT complex that includes moving walkways...a lot of them. 14 Street includes a direct center platform transfer with the . In response to security concerns regarding the original location to the U.N., as well as my own research on the QMTs depth, I've realigned the line under private property. The Lower East Side stations. Houston Street would include transfers with the and . Why do I say ? Because the Broadway-Brooklyn Line would be demolished as it would be replaced by the South 4th Street and Bushwick-Pennsylvania Lines. Essex-Rutgers on the would have a transfer with the . Delancey Street would include a new transfer with the and . What is this ? The Nassau Street Shuttle is another result of the demolition of the Broadway-Brooklyn Line. Lower Manhattan stations. Lafayette Street on the could provide a transfer to the at Brooklyn Bridge. The Church Street terminal could solve the problem of the out of system transfer at Fulton Center. This is it. P.S: What is the NOMAD acronym? NOrth of MADison Square? I'm also for some reason happy that Collect Pond has a park in it's former location named after it. Later on today, the Brooklyn extensions will be mapped in detail.

Here's a peek at the latest and most final iteration of my First Avenue Subway plans. I've made some drastic changes to the a couple lines. The most notable being the Boston Road line being rerouted around Bronx Park via Morris Park, Williamsbridge, and Laconia Avenues and joining Boston Road again. I've also reduced that line to all local service as I've thought it better to connect this series of lines to the Concourse subway to provide a direct downtown routing. Updates coming soon. I don't know why I didn't know about Google Map Maker before.

...I think I'm gonna start calling myself Super Sentai... That way, every time Kamen Rider posts right after me, I can edit mine and yell: SUPER HERO TIME!!! ...I'll leave now...

Saw the rear of along the Concourse labelled as a last night. This was just after midnight. I hope it was the result of an actual service and not the doings of a certain group of individuals that should not be named.

He's talking about the front LED.

I believe the roll signs on the R62As have the Hudson Yards terminal as well. And it's one a one stop difference so there shouldn't be that much confusion.

Experimentation. Seeing what configurations work and what does not is my only guess.

I, for some reason, can't edit this. I meant to say to Avenue X.

terminates at Brighton Beach with the . terminates at Brighton Beach, but due to track layout, southbound Avenue U will need to be skipped. terminates at Kings Highway. Shuttle buses serve respective stations along these three services and converge at Stillwell Terminal.

Shuttle between Main Street and Flushing. suspended. between Astoria and Queensboro Plaza. Both will terminate on the Lower Level. extended via Queens Blvd Local to Forest Hills. serviced modified to accommodate the service. truncated to 57th Street. Some trains terminate at 57th-6th Avenue to accommodate the extra service. service slightly reduced to make room for terminating trains at 57th Street. In Manhattan, no service. The Shuttle runs all night and more frequently. For customers that need Queens service, they will receive a paper transfer to from Queens Plaza for connection to Queensboro Plaza.

Wouldn't that require some type of on-board wifi?

Well, from the mock up and renders it will look similar, but different enough to have its own identity. But I have the eyes of an artist...

Most likely, which makes Concourse the final candidate as off hour trains are stored there already.

Who said I'm ignoring the MTAs financial realities. Its no secret that money is hard to find. The fact that money was found for phase One is amazing. The gears are turning in my head right now are leading me to a Hudson Yards related question, so slightly off topic: How much does the MTA get for selling the air rights over that yard? If it's possible, selling the air rights above other yards for housing or commercial purposes could, in theory, provide a little money towards things like SAS. I know it wouldn't be much, but something is better than nothing at all. Also, the new South Ferry's problem is more attributed to the lack of preventative measures as the last true hurricane to hit this city was in 1938, as well as it lying directly under another station thus acting like a drainage ditch for the Loop. Planners in this city must have believed that since weather events of that sort are rare in this city, preparing for them isn't worth the investment. That is a problem. What is the point of building anything new if you are not going to take initiative and design preventative measures within the structure itself? Money is a problem, we get that, but it costs more to not prepare in the long run. *If only NYC remained the nations capital. This would likely be less of an issue.*

I wouldn't call the plans of the 1970s "ambitious". I know that area is a bad location for a terminal, but as I see it from the eyes of a NYer, why would I bother with this line when I'm already at the beginning of the express portion? So I can be at a station closer to my job? I'd likely get there faster if I stay where I am. Frankly, by having the line run as far as 3rd Avenue-149th Street as Phase IV, not only are the required transfers being made, it also makes the Bronx extensions more likely. In that case, I believe that the investment of a couple billion extra is worth it. If two miles of new subway can be built for several billion, spending an extra billion or two to make more useful extensions possible is worth the investment. Lastly, most of the East Side is flood susceptible. All they can do is minimize the possibility of major damage. Which makes me wonder, what preventative measures have the planners of this line taken in case of flooding?

I personally think the required transfers should have been made in The Bronx instead of at 125th Street.

Quoting Panda-kun: The IRT and BMT built lines without going massively over-budget through already developed areas (see: BMT Broadway Line, BMT Nassau Line). It was ridiculously over engineered. Forest Hills and 179th St are the best terminals we have in the system. They also cost a crapton of money to build. So did the massive flying junctions along 53rd, by Hoyt-Schermerhorn and at West 4 St. We also sank a crapton of money into building an express line directly around and under an existing subway line at 6th Avenue, when it probably would've been cheaper to move the entire thing to 5th Avenue (and it wouldn't have cost as much or impacted ridership - after all, 8th Av was a block west of the former 9th Av El. The IND was a massive failure from a cost/effectiveness point of view. We put in a lot of crap for overly rosy assumptions about what could be built in the future, decided that good transfer connections were only important after we built everything already, and certain routings were changed for no good reason at all (the Crosstown Line was originally supposed to connect to the Franklin Shuttle). Most of the corridors built already had plans for them dating to the Dual Contracts, and had we just stuck with that model New York would have been significantly better off. ------------------------------ The money for the IRT and BRT extensions under the Dual Systems Contracts was allocated before the first World War. That's why they were built without going over budget. And a lot of the IRT and BRT went through largely undeveloped areas initially. The Flushing Line itself went through literal farmland. It was so empty that former Mayor William J. Gaynor questioned why it should even be built. The answer was simple. In order to encourage development across the city, rapid transit should be built through undeveloped areas. That is where the Phase One IND fails. Aside from the Queens Boulevard Line, almost all of the IND traveled through areas served by rapid transit instead of going through areas not served. The public was generally satisfied, except for the Concourse Line where community groups and Borough officials lamented the fact that they lost the 4th track and the lack of a direct downtown routing. In terms of design, it is only natural that subway construction techniques would advance, and that advancement that you call "over-engineering" is what set the IND apart from the IRT and BRT which were, by that time, were beginning to show both their age and the limiting character of their construction. In a time where rapid transit was extremely popular, flying junctions were a nice investment because they nearly doubled the speed a train can take over a junction. Passenger convenience within the Peoples Subway. Those massive junctions also increased service flexibility, which in itself, sets this entire system apart from the rest of the world. The 6th Avenue express tracks were a component of the 1945 plan for SAS which included the original proposal for the Chrystie Street Connection. The express tracks added extra capacity to the line in order to absorb the extra trains that would be coming up the line. 57th Street was built for those two purposes as well. 8th Avenue is a block east of 9th Avenue because it was technically easier. The area was and still is less developed than Midtown. 5th Avenue is a high class street. That alone would have made the project more expensive than just building under the H&M and 6th Avenue "L". Also, The INDs failure is attributed, once again, to going through already developed areas that were served by existing rapid transit. It therefore lost much needed support from real estate and merchant organizations. The fact that it was being built in a time of extreme inflation didn't help matters. The fact that the Phase 1 IND was even completed, albeit slightly different than originally proposed, is nothing short of a miracle. The IND was not the only system to plan for the future. The IRT and BRT did as well. The transfer connections would have likely come afterward anyway aside form key intersections. Remember, the systems weren't unified until 1940 and that was ONLY because the City threatened [The Private Operators] to take back the city-built sections of their subways leaving the IRT and BMT with systems "so fragmented that they won't even recognize them". The Crosstown Line was originally proposed in 1878 as part of the original plans of the Brooklyn "L"s as an extension of the CI&BB Railroad. But religious groups rejected the line rigorously until the plan was dropped after the Dual Systems were signed.[Trivia Note: Cadman Plaza is named after Reverend Parks Cadman, a guy who led the opposition of the Crosstown "L" during it's proposal as part of the Dual Systems Contracts. The park itself being in the former location of the Sands Street train shed] The BOTs original plans for the Crosstown Subway had it running as a spur from the 6th Avenue Line at 23rd Street, running south to Fulton Street in the area of Borough Hall, then back to Manhattan. It was opposed by former Brooklyn Borough President Guider who claimed that John Delaney "did not know his territory very well". Shocked by Hylans support of Guider, Delaney was compelled to revise the plans into the Crosstown Line as we know it today. The line was slightly re-tooled after construction began to include a provision for a spur to the South Queens Trunk Line at Bedford-Nostrand. Most of the corridors planned dated before the Dual Systems. The Lafayette Avenue Loop Line was part of the Tri-Borough plan of 1905. William McAdoo, creator of the Hudson and Manhattan Railroad (Now known as PATH), wanted to operate into Brooklyn proposing what he called the Independent Subway. His wanting to expand into Brooklyn is what compelled the IRT and BRT into offering bids to operate lines that became those in the Dual Systems. Also, only routes built under the Dual Systems Contracts were the ONLY lines approved by the Board of Estimate for construction. From my research, the only routes that people wanted to be a part of the Dual Systems, but never made it, was Utica Avenue and the Flushing Line extension. But public opposition from community groups in those areas restricted them. There was no Lafayette Avenue line proposed at all for the Dual Systems. The 8th Avenue and Concourse lines were a part of expansion plans drafted by Daniel L. Turner for the NYS Transit Commission. The SAS was preceded by a First Avenue Subway that was proposed to run form Lower Manhattan to Crotona Park, That line was supported heavily by commercial groups in Manhattan, most notably Samuel J. Bloomingdale. I hope you guys know who that man is. In fact, the first SAS plan for the IND created in part because East Side groups felt shafted in the IND planning process. The new East Side line could have also built on 3rd Avenue, but it was deemed too close to the Lex. They even proposed building a new street between 2nd and 3rd Avenues, but land acquisition costs were too high as well as the costs of creating a new street. There are many more factors for why things happen and my years of research make me more understanding about why we are where we are today. That includes the reasoning of the men responsible. The urge to find the most factual of answers helps a lot. I recommend it.