T to Dyre Avenue

But the runs more frequently than any of the other lines you mentioned do. And when ridership bounces back to pre-Covid levels, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to figure out how to run more trains per hour, given how crowded that line can get. A flat junction will only hamper service frequency, especially if another service like the still runs through there. Also, going back to what I posted earlier, it's possible that if the connects to the Broadway Line tracks via flyover, it's possible that WTC mall could be in path of the connecting tracks. You see, the passes over the mall as you get near the escalators leading down to the train. So it's possible that the existing platform is also above the mall (I believe it is). But in order to get there, the southbound passes under the tracks, then rises back up to enter WTC. An extension to Lower Broadway would likely require the to stay at that lower level to avoid making a flat junction connection. Or possibly go even lower to avoid the left turn towards Brooklyn the make after leaving Chambers. I also don't really see how the would be that much better than existing service or even a full-time South Brooklyn service. Yes, it might offer flexibility with doing reroutes that we can't do now, but is it really worth disrupting service on the and lines to make said connection? You said in a previous they could, but not necessarily should, swap the services. But what is the point of building this connection if they don't run a regular service through there? If they leave the existing services as they are and the connection ends up being seldom-used (like only for emergency reroutes), then that's even more of a reason not to do it.

No it can’t.

Yep. I don’t know if they considered back then (first WTC construction in the late 60s) and if so, why they didn’t go through with it. But that train has left the station.

Right. There’s more density to the south of Northern. North of Northern still seems to have many of the same people it had in the 1960s and 70s with the same attitudes about transit that they had back then.

But then you’d have to close Grand Street. That can’t be a good thing.

Agreed. That connection connecting the local tracks to the Manhattan Bridge north side tracks alone is going to be one hell of task. And wouldn't extending the require demolition of the WTC Mall? After spending nearly $4 billion on the giant stegosaurus, I don't think the PA are going to go for tearing it up. The only way I'd be in favor of running the on QBL is if it runs via 63rd St and express with the , while the and run local to/from 71st-Continental. Having a local merge with an express between 36th St and Queens Plaza on top of the merge that's already there is a recipe for disaster.

I’d be all in for a Flushing extension too. I’d likely stop using the QM20 if I had a or line stop near me in Whitestone. It’s much too far for me to walk to and from the LIRR at Auburndale most days (if the weather is in the 50s thru 70s with no rain I can do it, but that’s it). But I’d have the stay on Northern all the way to 221st/Springfield Blvd because Northern is a wide commercial street and most of the others are residential (like Station Road and 39th Avenue). I’d use because it’s “the other purple line,” but only the R62As can display it and none of the newer A-Division trains can display a route number greater than . Interesting how you mentioned replacing the designation with a purple . Transit actually had the chance to do this 20 years ago when they could have used the existing sign on the rolls when they sent R62As from the and lines over to the . But no, they kept the , citing that it would actually cause confusion to change it to .

Interesting how they displayed the map from 1990 which briefly had the train restored onto the south side of the Manhattan Bridge while the , and all shared the north. I wonder what the significance of displaying that particular map was. Maybe that was the then-current service pattern when the first R32s came back from GOH. But I don’t think most people who rode on 1/9/22 would have known that.

Even if funding isn't the main issue, it will likely be an issue. And it won't be the only one. AmeriStarRail are calling for rail service from City Hall to Astoria in Phase 1 of their plan. This service would require multiple merging in Manhattan, especially if the plan includes also running it express in Manhattan. I'm assuming that is part of their plan because their map shows only the Broadway express stations plus Queensboro Plaza and Ditmars (which they call "Astoria Exchange Station"). I think it would just be easier to reimagine the as the dedicated express service in AmeriStarRail's Phase 1, with dedicated shuttle buses that meet the at Astoria Blvd (not Ditmars; there's not enough street space there). But it would have to run local in Manhattan because you can't run express trains from City Hall Lower Level without first merging onto the local tracks before Canal, then onto the express tracks before Prince. Add that on top of the delays already incurred under the current service plan, and you've got a recipe for a major shitshow if a signal or a train dies somewhere along the way (like what happened at Canal St this morning). As for Phase 2, I'm of the mind that since they already want to connect a train to the at Ditmars, why not just have the and/or continue all the way to LGA? Why make people take the airport train to Ditmars then transfer there? It just seems counterintuitive. Phase 3, I'm still on the fence over. Because it's basically the Cuomo AirTrain proposal, but continuing south to JFK. Maybe the AirTrain type technology could be done there since we already have it, but really I'd prefer a service that benefits more than just airport riders.

I thought they were going to use the unused upper level platform at Roosevelt Avenue. I’d like for them to use it. But I don’t think it’s designed for trains to continue north of there.

I assumed subway rolling stock would have been on separate tracks, same as LRT or BRT. That’s why I was surprised it was eliminated right away.

Agreed. FRA compliant trains are really the most practical option, even it’s not the fastest. With LRT and BRT, they’ve already stated they’ll have to deviate from the r.o.w. in several areas where it’s only two tracks wide. They’ll still likely have to for an effective transfer between the in Jackson Heights, but it’s better to have to deviate in just one area versus several. I’m surprised how quickly the subway option was ruled out.

Wow…that was fast! Governor Hochul ain’t playing. Still don’t like how the graphic showing key destinations has a giant white space where The Bronx would be. It reminds me of that state map of Maryland that left off the City of Baltimore which then-newly elected Governor Larry Hogan stood in front of to announce a huge amount of spending on roads in that state back in 2015 (after pulling the plug on the proposed Red Line light rail in Baltimore).

So what happens to the and and the Broadway Express tracks in this scenario? What's going to run on the Sea Beach and West End lines in South Brooklyn? Wouldn't it be easier to just do this?

Well, New Yorkers do like to complain about pretty much everything, so I’m not surprised there’s already complaints, even though the environmental review is only just getting under way. Hopefully, their concerns can be addressed and some kind of measures can be taken to mitigate them. I’d really hate to see this worthy project go down in flames due to NIMBY’s who have the ears of their local elected officials.

Well, yes, we don't know what type of equipment will be utilized on the line to transport potential riders. If something productive comes from this study, then we might. Though I'm pretty sure it won't be boxcars, Amtrak Amfleets or maglev. But I'd like to hazard a guess that it'll likely be some sort of railcar that doesn't require a physical or a time separation from the freight trains that currently run there in keeping with FRA regulations. That's most likely to be a railcar closer in size to Metro-North's M8 or LIRR's M7 or M9 rolling stock than to Transit's R160 or R211 cars, but with interiors closer to those of R160s or R211s (with way more seats obviously). It should blur the lines between transit and mainline passenger rail a bit. The way London Overground does. And frankly, we could really use a bit more of that in North America. The old school attitude of "Transit is Transit and Railroad is Railroad and never the two shall meet" is a big reason why we hamper our rail infrastructure from working better to transport people and force them to choose driving over transit. That attitude in the US, and Canada to a lesser extent, has got to go. Honestly, I don't expect the ridership numbers to rival that of a full-built Second Ave Subway with extensions to The Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens, but I would like to think that it could put a dent in the amount of cars getting onto the Belt Parkway or Kings Highway. And give some much-needed relief to the busy crosstown bus routes in South Brooklyn

That’s assuming R211s will be assigned to the and lines. So far, it seems like the base order is going to the and lines, given that 8th Ave is next in line to get CBTC. That spotting thing at DeKalb Tower ain’t going nowhere for quite some time (even though it should). On the other hand, the and already operate with R46s or R68/As - trains with big, visible front route markers (although the speculation mill has the R160s coming back to the and when the R211 option orders come in). As far as “scheduling them better,” what else can they do with the current service plan? If there was something better, then wouldn’t they have already done it? Heck, I can remember when only the 6th Ave bridge tracks were open and I’d be on a or train that got stopped at the junction to let a pass through.

No other way for the R32 to go out for its final run.

Great photos and video. I’m hearing the final run on the is still on as of now.

But they already live near an active rail line. Which already hosts loud diesel-powered freight trains. While there are some segments of the line that are single track, I believe they do have room to widen to at least double track.

Just saw @GojiMet86’s topic for this same subject right after I posted mine. Oops…

https://mobile.twitter.com/MTA/status/1478833140001083392 I’m glad the Governor is making a real push for it (unlike her predecessor). Hopefully, we see some real results this time and not another ridiculously inflated construction cost because the MTA really “don’t wanna” build it.

I’d be glad if they push it back to late spring or summer. That’s probably the best time to do a final run on the line in Brooklyn. It would be much better than canceling the last run entirely.

I really don’t think this is an issue. I fail to see how it would be, unless maybe there’s a huge percentage of Astoria riders whose destination is Canal Street. The and make the exact same stops between Ditmars Blvd and 34th St-Herald Square. Neither one is faster or slower than the other. Even with Union Square, there’s very little time saving, because the skips only two stops between 34th and 14th. I don’t think the third option is all that bad. How would Queens Plaza lose a local train? Run the and local via 53rd and the and express via 63rd. And the would replace the to/from Jamaica Center. The fourth option is kind of confusing, because what train is running local on Broadway if the is express along with the and ? The second option is the one I prefer because there is a clean express/local operation on the Broadway Line. The first option - killing the - can only work with a fully deinterlined QBL with only 8th and 6th Ave services. Maybe also with a future QBL-2 Ave service via the 63rd St Tunnel.

It may very well be. A while back, I suggested running the and local and the and express, with the to/from Astoria and the replacing the on 2nd Ave. It was here: You’d still have the same merging in Manhattan that you have now between the , and . And you’d have the merging between the and at Lexington-63rd. But the three merges in LIC that the current QBL and 60th St Tunnel patterns require would all be eliminated. As would the local/express switch at 34th (and Prince on weekends). I wonder if that could make for a less delay-prone QBL and Broadway Line (and the ability to run more frequent services when ridership eventually bounces back).