checkmatechamp13
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Posts posted by checkmatechamp13
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@The TransitMan Starting the last two trips at Bridgehampton would mean that East Hampton and Sag Harbor see their last buses shortly after 5pm...not acceptable given that one of the main selling points of this new network was later evening service.
For the 66, how long of a layover does the B/O take at the medical center and at Riverhead? If the bus goes out as the next trip, that means there is roughly a 20 minute layover on weekdays (and a 59 minute layover on weekends).
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@B35 via Church Back in the day, what were ridership patterns like on the S20 (in its Babylon - Sunrise Mall form)? Was it primarily picking up/dropping off riders coming to/from Sunrise Mall, or was there some turnover?
What I'm particularly interested in is transfer activity between the S1 and S20 (I know it isn't quite a fair comparison since Montauk Highway isn't that close to the areas up by Oak Street and John Street, but just to get an idea of how many people in that general area are seeking access to NY-110). Most of the other connections which were previously available at Sunrise Mall are now available at Amityville LIRR station, but the one big benefit at Amityville (for a Montauk Highway route) is the connection to NY-110, which was available on the S20, but not the N19.
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Reading this Op-Ed, the person has a point: Of all the routes they could've had deviate towards Communipaw, the #86 was probably one of the most random ones they could've chosen: https://hudsoncountyview.com/letter-nj-transit-must-rise-to-the-occasion-with-ac-bus-service-ending-soon/
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I just took a look at the College Plaza Shopping Center, and I really hope they designed the loop to be a straight shot through the shopping plaza and not a full-blown loop (passing through the intersection of College Road & Middle Country Road twice). If you run straight through the shopping plaza, you actually avoid a traffic light. In cases like this, I guess it makes it easier that they didn't put permanent signs on the poles yet.
Ideally, they would also shift the stop at College Road & Cherry Street to be a bit further up (closer to Middle Country Road for those transferring to/from the 58).
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@BM5 via Woodhaven Maybe they could look at interlining such a route with the 62, having it do a full loop through Shirley (Titmus Drive and Moriches-Middle Island Road) and serving the Walmart in both directions.
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@BM5 via Woodhaven Reminds me of the M21 truncation to avoid the Holland Tunnel traffic.
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Some more updates:
* Beginning Sunday December 3rd, Route 80 in Riverhead will operate as a hourly one-way circulator route beginning and ending at the Riverhead LIRR timed transfer. Service on Route 80 will now be available at Calverton Hills, the Riverhead Plaza shopping center (Gala Fresh), and Suffolk County DSS offices. See route notice here and timetable here for more information. (The weekday 58 diversion to Calverton Hills will no longer operate starting Monday).
* Beginning Sunday December 3rd, Route 3 will no longer operate on Half Hollow Road south of the Long Island Expressway. Route 3 will now continue along Deer Park Avenue (north of Half Hollow Road) and the Long Island Expressway Service Roads (between Deer Park Avenue and Half Hollow Road). See route notice here for more information.
* Beginning Sunday December 3rd, Route 53 will loop into College Plaza in Selden both northbound and southbound to serve a new stop near Wren Kitchens/ShopRite.
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Condolences to his family.
He was apparently one of the flaggers in the work zone.
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22 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:
The Brentwood - Bay Shore demand is divided amongst two routes, whereas the Brentwood-Babylon demand is still under one route. I would not write off the 5's segment between Babylon and Brentwood given how it serves it. The 5 is slated to garner most S29 ridership, a good chunk of S23 ridership, and some S27 and S33 ridership. Between Bay Shore and Brentwood, the 7 tends to replicate more of the S41 than the S45 (which was the busier of the two route). I also wouldn't count out the effect the H10 and H40 can have on total ridership on the 7, because they overlap directly or very close to it north of Jericho Turnpike. That's not to say the 7 wouldn't hold on it's own, but I can't see it being fourth.
Keep in mind that statistics (performance) you're referencing are boardings per revenue hour. Revenue hours dependent on number of trips, route length, and frequency. It might be easier to compare when the frequencies are the same, but in the case of the 12 vs. 62, the 12 runs every 30 minutes during the day on weekdays while the 62 runs every 60 minutes during that same period. The 12 also primarily replicates most of the former 2B, and not much of the 2A. It's not necessarily close or feasible to walk between many of the individual segments of the former 2A/2B either.
You'd basically have to almost halve the boardings per hour as a result. So realistically you're looking at most 2B ridership, plus some 2A ridership, plus whatever boost the route gets from doubling the frequency and extending the service hours (the latter which the S62 is also receiving). Again time will tell, but I could see the 62 pulling it off over the 12 for that reason. If the 12 was an hourly route I wouldn't hesitate to go with the 12.
Brentwood - Bay Shore is divided among two routes, but remember that under the old system, there were four routes heading south out of Brentwood (S41, S45, 3A/3B), and multiple routes (S45, 2A/2B, S42) traveling between Bay Shore and South Shore Mall. Downtown Bay Shore - South Shore Mall all gets concentrated into the 7 (any riders traveling solely within that segment, plus transferring riders). Then there's also over a mile of Brentwood Road (literally all the way down to the border with North Bay Shore...actually longer than the portion of Brentwood Road south of Spur Drive North that used to be served by the S45) that also gets concentrated onto the 7.
The S45 was busier than the S41, but also keep in mind that the S45 was more frequent and ran later (It was a similar situation to the S54...it still irks me that they considered the S45 to be an hourly route while the S54 was considered a 30 minute route). Even with the H10/H40 in the mix, I still can't see it being less efficient than the 5 (the 7 is also shorter time-wise and distance-wise than the 5...) I can see the 2 beating out the 7 (depending on how the segment west of Babylon holds up), but not the 5.
For the 12, also keep in mind that (unless they restore Udall Road service) that there's also going to be some S27 riders who will need to use the 12 to connect to another route. The old 2B saw a tad under 10 passengers per hour, whereas the 2A & S62 saw about 6 passengers per hour. Half of 10 is 5...I'd say the 2A riders, whatever minimal amount of S27 riders, plus the riders gained by increasing the frequency (and let's assume that the timed transfers and extended span work similarly for both) would edge it out in favor of the 12, but like you said, we'll see as time goes on...
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On 10/29/2023 at 10:45 AM, NJTE said:
What’s the point of keeping them as contractors? Its better fully taking them over as contractors are known to miss a lot of trips.
If they're contractors, it saves the trouble of having to house the buses in an NJT depot and find NJT B/Os to drive the routes.
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@BM5 via Woodhaven I just realized I forgot to include the S92 in there. I'd probably rank it just below the S58. (On a side note, I hope the suburban transit agencies start releasing their ridership numbers similar to how the MTA does it every year...ideally with all the different metrics...ridership per revenue hour...cost per rider...etc)
In any case, I think the S7 definitely needs to be boosted in your ranking. Brentwood - Bay Shore is definitely busier than Brentwood - Babylon (even though Babylon is the busier rail station, Bay Shore is the busier bus hub...and then north of the LIRR, the S7 has less competition from nearby routes compared to the S5). Thinking again (and this time, taking a look at page 51/86 of the Choices & Concepts report which I didn't do in the first list), I think a reasonable reorder (anything adjusted by more than two spaces on the list shown in red would be 4, 1, 66, 7, 2, 5, 6, 51, 11, 58, 92, 55, 53, 12, 62, 17, 52A/52B, 77/77Y, 3, 10, 80)
For the S53 one of the things that will make it difference in keeping ridership even with the S55 is the scheduling. The S53/55 are offset so that there is essentially 30 minute service heading directly south from Port Jefferson to Patchogue at all times (obviously the S51 takes a more circuitous route). The S53 is the one designed to connect to the other Patchogue routes during evenings/weekends. The S55 only really connects well with the S58 at Coram Plaza (eastbound S58 to southbound S55 and vice versa). On weekends, the S55 is timed well for passengers going towards Gordon Heights on the S52A....anyway, as a whole the S53 is generally better-timed than the S55, so I think that will make a fairly big difference in ridership.
For the S17, for reference, the old 3C performed a bit better than the 3B and the S60, just to give an idea of the density of areas served (obviously the S60 served Gordon Heights specifically, since we're also discussing the S52A/S52B). They also added (back) some stops by Central Islip Town Centre and those condos on Sunburst Blvd, which I think will definitely boost ridership in that area (Before, it was basically Smith Street and then straight to the courthouses...I think a few trips deviated to Bishop McGann Village).
For the S62, the old 2A performed right on par with the S62...the 2B performed higher than both (on par with the S25 and slightly lower than the S29/S60). The S62, while basically "the only show in town" for that whole region of Suffolk County (between Port Jefferson Station and Riverhead) doesn't really hit any high-density areas...it serves Rocky Point and Sound Beach, but it's somewhat far from the heart of the residential areas (Wading River admittedly it goes right through). So you're sort of scraping together what you can out of those areas, and then hoping that the higher-density sections of Riverhead and the areas west of Port Jefferson Station can hold down the fort. Compare to the S12 where there's consistently higher-density throughout the route.
On a side note, I forget if I mentioned this, but I think the S12 should take Howells Road directly into 4th Avenue, allowing it to directly serve the Bay Shore LIRR station (between that and the S7/11 serving it from Union Blvd as mentioned earlier, it would it a better bus-rail transfer point, though I'd still have buses terminating at Mechanicsville Road, since that is closer to the heart of "Downtown" Bay Shore).
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@B35 via Church @BM5 via Woodhaven Out of curiosity, what would be your ranking of efficiency of the routes in the new network? (I'd personally consider the S52 to be a bit weaker than the S17). I'd say as follows (to clarify, when I say efficiency, I mean ridership relative to length and allocated frequency)
S1
S4
S66
S2
S7
S11
S6
S51
S55
S12
S5
S58
S53
S17
S52A/S52B
S3
S62
S10
S77/77Y
S80
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8 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:
5: Given the 11 would still run in this area from Brentwood, and that more people would end up gunning for the 4 and 7 because it serves the heart of Brentwood directly, I'm not too hot on this, especially going to Central lslip. I don't know if this is an attempt at trying to potentially interline the 5 and 17 together (instead of the 11), but I would leave the 5 out of it if so. There's more (potential and existing) demand to Brentwood than Central Islip.
It's already enough that you would have the route running down Udall Road and not Deer Park Avenue to (almost by) Tanger Outlets. Not to say that running it down Udall Road is a bad idea, I've been a proponent of restoring service there, it's just that there's a smaller catchment area by running along Udall Road versus Deer Park Avenue. On top of that you would have it miss a major transfer point (and a timed one at that) for individual segments which may or may not work out, depending on the transfers needed. Ultimately, I see this being a weaker version of the S27, not particularly too useful north of the Ronkonkoma Branch during most periods.
That's my point...the 7 already connects that area to Brentwood LIRR, so there's no point in the 5 and 7 both running from NW Brentwood to "Downtown" Brentwood. The old S27 riders heading towards Brentwood LIRR would be better served transferring to the 4 rather than all of that backtracking through NW Brentwood. I find it a bit ironic that a network supposedly based around "frequency" has two frequent routes between Brentwood & Hauppauge (4/5) and two frequent routes between Central Islip & Hauppauge (6/17), plus the hourly 58, and yet they leave Manatuck Blvd with nothing. Also keep in mind that evenings and weekends, those sections of Hauppauge are pretty much dead ridership-wise, so the way I see it, nothing should be terminating in Hauppauge (even if it's just a quick layover to change the destination sign). So by making this adjustment, it eliminates a frequent Brentwood - Hauppauge route, eliminates a frequent route along Suffolk Avenue between Wicks Road and NY-111, and replaces a frequent Central Islip - Hauppauge route with an hourly route, while eliminating Hauppauge as an actual terminal. (Note that unlike CT Transit schedules for example, there's no indication that the 11/17 interline or that the 52A/B interline, though my position about ending routes in Hauppauge would be the same regardless). Those resources would be better-used elsewhere in the network.
8 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:3/9: This is something others have suggested in the past as well to some extent (including myself), although with some variances. I generally don't have issue with it (including the deviation to/from Tanger), and you get to keep 30 minute service on Deer Park Avenue south of the Ronkonkoma Branch. While I don't see the need for the 3 anymore along most of Deer Park Avenue by having the 9, the former S23 route north of Wyandanch carried air more often than not, if it wasn't for Five Towns College it would be even worse. I would prefer having it continue up Straight Path to Deer Park Avenue, then take Half Hollow (and vice-versa). That would still save runtime over the exiting alignment, and coupled with the elimination of the route along Hubbards Path, should provide sufficient layover in Babylon instead of what it currently is.
Agreed.
8 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:8: This is more or less similar to what I've mentioned in the past, the one difference that I would probably have a one-way loop through North Lindenhurst, Pinelawn, and Farmingdale to also serve some of the industrial sections and even some residential sections with the same bus. These are sections that lost all service, first when the S35 was eliminated and then when the S31 was also eliminated. Basically from Route 109, buses would take Route 109 > Wellwood Avenue > Conklin Street > Broadhollow Road / Route 110 > Route 109 > Albany Avenue to Amityville LIRR. The current 10 schedule suggests such a routing is possible, as Amityville LIRR to Albany/Sidney Court (just south of Route 109) is 13 minutes each way, 26 minutes total. Google maps says that such a loop is from 13-16 minutes, so with some padding that's maybe like 16-22 minutes. At its worst it'll be around 50 minute total runtime.
Agreed.
8 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:10: While I have no gripes with having a bus along Route 109, my question is what happens to Lindenhurst, which would be left with nothing (outside the 2 along Montauk Highway)? I don't agree with leaving it with nothing.
Hmmm...good question...I'd almost be inclined to either create a standalone route via John Street between Babylon & Amityville, or see if there is enough layover time in the 10 to instead terminate it at GSB Shopping Center via John Street/Wellwood Avenue/Montauk Highway.
8 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:11: I don't know whether it should take on the 5 north/east of Hauppauge or from Brentwood (replacing it), but I would ultimately have the 11 do one of those. Reason being that even more coverage along Jericho Turnpike would be lost, unless something else runs in that area. It also isn't like Smithtown Bypass is completely far from parts of the former S45. I would also not trim the route in the area to take Adams Avenue, because it looks closer than it is on a map. That walk to Moreland Road is nothing to overlook (17 minutes). It's faster to walk from Motor Parkway to Oser Avenue, however I am not encouraging nor in agreement with having something cut along Motor Parkway either.
Along Jericho Turnpike, I would have the 6 cover it. (Riders heading east would either have to transfer in Hauppauge or Central Islip). Either that, or have your Hicksville - Smith Haven regional route cover it.
Walking down Maple Avenue from Jericho Turnpike down to Hauppauge Road and NY-347 is 2 miles...that means someone in the middle is a mile from the nearest route...given the density of that area, I don't think that's reasonable.
As for Adams Avenue, I was thinking because Moreland Road is covered by the 5, but I could live with it continuing down to Moreland Road (especially since Moreland Road crosses the LIE, technically making it accessible to people in NW Brentwood...actually come to think of it, that technically is the closest route to some folks north of Community College Drive today).
8 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:17: Out of the all the 30-minute routes that provided, I personally see the 17 as the weakest one out of all. I believe that part of the reason it even got it was because it managed to fit with the 11 in terms of total runtime, the timed transfers at the pulse locations and whatnot. With that said, I don't think truncating the route makes much sense without doing much else for the route. Even if it operate every 60 minutes I see this as a route that wouldn't get many people, more so with some of the changes you're proposing.
As far as separating the 17 from the 11, I'm somewhere between indifferent and not opposed to it, because while I think the 11/17 interlining setup holds down the 17 in particular I don't know what could be done for the route. I don't think truncating the 17 though is the way, it will need as much direct service to as many locations as possible. Given that 2 doesn't connect to the 7, 11, and 12, extending the 17 out to Bay Shore may be an option because that may get you some ridership. If not for that, IDK what can be done going past the Hauppauge end of the route. However I would keep it serving Montauk Highway.
If you think about it, with the old 3C, there were two buses per hour heading south out of Central Islip LIRR (one towards Carleton Avenue and the courthouses and one towards Lowell Avenue and the South Shore Mall). Plus the S42 heading south, so I don't think they would've essentially taken three hourly routes and replaced them with one single hourly route that doesn't even connect to the LIRR on the southern end.
I think the route south of the Central Islip LIRR station holds its own, but I wouldn't be opposed to an extension to Bay Shore.
Side note, for the existing routes that terminate in Bay Shore, I'd adjust the routes of the 11 and 12 to better-serve the LIRR station. The 12 I'd have run down Union Blvd & Park Avenue to the current bus terminal, and the 11 I'd have it just run straight across Union Blvd to 4th Avenue (there's entrances to the hospital from Union Blvd).
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To clarify, WTC - Cortlandt is a
line station (pretty much the one right in front of the PATH, but honestly I've never paid attention to where the escalators are relative to it). If you want the 
that is a much longer walk within the complex to the Chambers Street or Fulton Street stations. I know there's a lot of escalators throughout the complex but I'm not sure if it is completely stair-free.
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@B35 via Church For reference, here's the transfer point at Brentwood (basically, the routes go in order, with the 4 being all the way back by Brentwood Road, and the 58 being all the way at the front). They're not using the old transfer points south of the LIRR
Central Islip is similar (and similar in the sense that the lower-numbered routes are towards the back and the higher-numbered routes are towards the front).
As you can see by their choice of transfer point location, those are essentially meant to be mid-route terminals.
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@B35 via Church How about if the #356 were still running? That would be $3.50 for the #129 and then $2.55 for the #356 (basically the same price as going through Union City but you get to ride both routes full).
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@B35 via Church The first time was the opposite problem...the buses weren't waiting at all...there is a ton of padding in the schedule in the vicinity of the transfer points, so most buses treated that as a normal stop (so for example, that S92 heading towards Greenport ended up being a good 15 minutes early for the whole rest of the route once he passed Riverhead)
The problem is the scheduled runtime is too much...I know one thing that they mentioned is that the old system was unreliable and they needed to add some runtime to the routes to keep them on schedule, but they went overkill on it and now you have the problem of buses leaving early.
With the way they had originally advertised the pulse system, they said buses would be waiting 3-5 minutes which I found to be reasonable...I asked them if this applied at terminals and they never got back to me...come to find out they're essentially treating all of these intermediate stops as terminals and giving them a good 10 minutes (not 3-5 as originally promised) of padding at each one...the S4 runs every 30 minutes and it's getting a good 20 minutes of padding at Brentwood/Central Islip....
I'd say the pulse system can work at Patchogue, Amityville, Riverhead (I think the S92 should be split anyway), and the setup they have at Bay Shore (the S7/11/12 time with each other but not with the S2). I believe Farmingdale State College has the S12 arriving at :26 and leaving at :41 while the S1 passes at :30, so I'd include that as an example of a successful pulse point even though it's not official.
For Brentwood, I think the S7 & S11 should stay linked up (if they leave Bay Shore around the same time, they should get to Brentwood around the same time). The S58 I'd primarily try to schedule based on the Riverhead timepoint, but I think it could be reasonably scheduled to meet the S7/11 at Brentwood. The S5 as mentioned, I'd restructure the route entirely to end at Central Islip...it can be timed with the S17/52 since those end there. For the S4, I'd see if it can fit into those pulse points, but if not, then Brentwood & Central Islip would become like Bay Shore where some routes just don't fit into the pulse.
To put things into perspective, the Trip Planner actually says the quickest way from Amityville to Smith Haven is to take the S4 to Wyandanch, LIRR to Central Islip, and then the S4 again to Smith Haven (so the LIRR will save you a full 30 minute interval on the S4). It's all due to that 15-20 minutes of padding they put in at Brentwood/Central Islip.
I mean there was something to be said for the old system of "58 to the 66, I have 2 people needing to transfer" setup. (For what it's worth I did hear that type of language on the first trip...I don't believe I heard it on the second trip). If they can't make the connection in the 3-5 minute window, then it should be on a case-by-case basis that they hold (and in some cases, there might be some other stop the connection can be made at...for example, the S4 and S6 share the same route on Suffolk Avenue from Carleton Avenue/Wheeler Road to NY-454...if somebody is trying to get from the westbound S6 to the eastbound S4, they don't need to go all the way to the LIRR station). Or there might be some other route that they can take (e.g. If someone going from Brentwood to Patchogue misses the connection to the S6 at Central Islip, they can go to Smith Haven for the S51)
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Service Adjustment: Beginning on December 1st, Route 51 service to Stony Brook University Hospital will now stop on Health Sciences Drive.
Service Adjustment: Route 3 will no longer operate on Livingston Avenue and Hubbards Path in Babylon, NY. Route 3 will now serve Park Avenue (west of Livingston Avenue) and Belmont Avenue.
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I took another trip out to Suffolk (this one was a bit less intensive...basically the S4 from Wyandanch to Smith Haven, the S51 from Smith Haven to Patchogue, and the S6 from Patchogue to just short of Walt Whitman Mall. (Walked over to the Huntington LIRR station afterwards).
They're doing a somewhat better job of holding at the timed connection points, but the issue is that the wait times are generally too long...at Brentwood I get it, but at Central Islip, there is no need to put a good 10 minutes of padding into the schedule when there was another connection point a few minutes away at Brentwood...we saw a train at Deer Park, and the next train after that caught up to us at Central Islip...that's how much padding there is at Brentwood & Central Islip (at Brentwood I get it...if anything there was still one of the two S11 buses that we should've waited for...but at Central Islip there's no need for all of that padding...on the S6 going back oddly enough nobody got on or off at Central Islip). The S58 also left early from Smith Haven (which meant anybody coming off the S51 who wanted to head out east had to wait the full hour).
In any case, I have an idea regarding some restructuring in the Brentwood/Central Islip area as follows:
S5: Operates from Babylon - Central Islip via Udall Road, Heartland Industrial Park, and Pilgrim Psychiatric Center...once it gets to Wicks Road it makes a left down Wicks Road/Moreland Avenue, and heads down Oser Avenue, Old Willets Path, Rabro Drive, and Simeon Woods Road to the NYS Office Building. Then it heads down the S17 route to Central Islip LIRR to terminate. Service reduced to hourly. For more frequent service from Hauppauge to the Main Line, take the S6, S11, or S58. Transfers to all of the Brentwood routes are still available elsewhere along the route (S4 at Deer Park, S7 at SCCC, S11/58 at Hauppauge).
S6 branched to operate via Old Willets Path/Jericho Turnpike and Veterans Memorial Highway. Weekend/evening service operates via Old Willets Path/Jericho Turnpike.
New S9 route created to operate from Babylon to Huntington Square Mall via Deer Park Avenue (Slight diversion up Commack Road to serve the back to Tanger Outlets and Nicholls Road on the north side of the LIRR tracks...riders closer to Deer Park Avenue can use the S12 if necessary to connect with the S9). Half-hourly service provided south of Tanger Outlets/Stop & Shop shopping plaza. S3 rerouted similar to old S23 north of Wyandanch, since the S9 covers Deer Park Avenue.
S10 broken into S8 (Airport Plaza - Amityville via Albany Avenue) and S10 (Airport Plaza - Babylon via NY-109).
S11: Operates from Bay Shore - Smith Haven Mall, using the existing route up to Motor Parkway & Adams Avenue...it makes a right on Adams Avenue, right on Oser Avenue, heads over to the NYS Office Building, and then continues up NY-347 (Smithtown Bypass), NY-111 (Hauppauge Road), CR-15 (Maple Avenue), and then Jericho Turnpike to terminate at Smith Haven Mall. I think Smith Haven & Smithtown could use the direct connection to Bay Shore/North Bay Shore & southern Brentwood moreso than they could use the (much more meandering) connection to Babylon.
S17 truncated to operate from Central Islip LIRR station to Islip LIRR station. Given that there's no timed transfer to the S2 anyway, anybody who wants to connect to the S2 would have plenty of time to walk down to Montauk Highway to make the connection (Plus with the apartments and supermarket near the Islip LIRR station, there should be a decent amount of ridership generated from that area).
S58 routed up Calebs Path instead of Joshuas Path.
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Service Adjustment: The eastbound 58 departing Brentwood LIRR at 8:05 AM will stop at Toppings Path and Edwards Avenue at 9:45 AM. The eastbound 58 departing Brentwood LIRR at 3:05 PM will stop at Toppings Path and Edwards Avenue at 4:50 PM. There will be no service to NYS25 between Edwards Avenue and Riverhead LIRR on these trips. For access to NYS25, please transfer to a westbound 58 at Riverhead LIRR
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Just spoke with Suffolk Bus and there's two eastbound trips on the 58 that are diverting to serve Calverton Hills (they will arrive at 9:45am and 4:45pm). No westbound service will be offered (Riders will have to backtrack through Riverhead or one of the transfer points heading west).
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I took a trip on the new system yesterday.
Long story short, they need to enforce the timed connections better. Buses were leaving early (a Greenport-bound S92 left Riverhead almost 15 minutes early), and some of the instructions for the B/Os were unclear (for example, my S12 showed up using a minibus with no signage...at Bay Shore, he interlined with the S7 and ended up swapping out the minibus for a full-size bus with the B/O operating the arriving S12). Also, at Riverhead LIRR, the directions seemed to indicate for buses to make a right onto Railroad Avenue (and terminate by this parking lot here rather than at the old stop by the LIRR station here which had the signage...though an S80 B/O insisted that the parking lot was the correct stop, despite the return directions saying to make a left at the deli, and there is no deli in the other direction). My S62 at first made a right turn onto Railroad Avenue, and then when he was confused about the lack of a bus stop, ended up waiting for the S92 to see what he would do...the S92 made a left, but didn't hold at the LIRR station, which meant that the S62 passenger (who boarded by the commercial area near the Peconic Bay Medical Center who needed that connection ended up having to wait another hour for the next bus...even more of a reason for the S92 to be split...that way there is no confusion about whether or not buses need to hold at that point, since it's the first stop).
That 311 number only seems to be available during standard office hours (a passenger on the S7 complained that he called 311 and was left on hold for an hour before he gave up).
No semblance of any timed connections at Brentwood. My S7 arrived late due to so many people on the bus having questions...there were only 10-15 people on the bus, but it felt like a lot more with all of the chaos, with everyone going to the front and asking questions and pulling timetables from the holders, etc. I explained some passengers that this was basically the old S41 with some elements of the S45 mixed in, so that helped alleviate some of the confusion). For what it's worth, a friend of mine joined me on the trip and we thought that there was a second stop outside the parking lot, but there wasn't so he ended up missing the S7. I told him to get on the S11 and meet me in Brentwood...it was basically just him and one other person who got on further up the route. Also, we ended up just missing the gates at Brentwood (even though the train had to wait to pick up people at the station) so anybody who needed to make the westbound train was SOL...likewise the eastbound train passed shortly after the northbound bus left, so they managed to screw people in both directions).
The S5 only had one other passenger who got on somewhere in Smithtown and was seeking the S58 (which was either missing or had left already...for what it's worth, we didn't see it at Brentwood either). At Smith Haven Mall, there were some ambassadors who were helping passengers. They said the main thing they heard was that the timed transfers weren't being held, and they also heard some complaints about some corridors having service eliminated (e.g. Sayville - Ronkonkoma, Kings Park, Udall Road, etc). There were also a lot of S51 buses (apparently, the B/Os were given the wrong code, so the northbound buses were signed up as southbound buses and vice versa). There didn't seem to be much of a semblance of a schedule with the S51...the southbound bus got to Smith Haven at 3:04pm, which is when he was due to arrive at Ronkonkoma...when my S62 left around 3:22pm, there were two S51s that left with us (even though the schedule indicates they should pass around :46).
The only people on my S62 were my friend and myself, two transit fans who got on somewhere in Rocky Point, and then the person who was seeking the Greenport-bound S92 in Riverhead. On the S66, only my friend and myself got on at the LIRR station, two people got on at the County Center (presumably having come off the S92), we skipped SCCC due to the campus being closed, and then we picked up and dropped off a few people throughout the rest of the route into Patchogue.
At Patchogue, I got on the S2, and oddly enough I was the only one on the bus all the way to Amityville...FWIW we got to Amityville 20 minutes early, so I don't know if anybody missed that interval due to that.
Also, FWIW it was only myself and one other passenger (who got on in Deer Park) who were on the S12 towards Bay Shore. I saw an S12 passing in the other direction around Deer Park and didn't see anybody on it (through the windows anyway). So it seems it'll take a bit of time before the Sunday service catches on. (Not sure where the other person got on the S11, but my guess is it was probably somewhere along Brentwood Road, since that previously had S45 service...as far as I recall, all of the people who got on my S7 were using either former S41 or S45 stops...also FWIW, I don't believe I saw any new stops installed along Candlewood Road, and all of the old stops still have the old schedules...the Riverhead LIRR one even has the S90 schedule still attached). Same on the S5 (Smithtown) and S62 (the person in Riverhead seeking S92 service to Greenport). On the S12, the B/O and passenger seemed to know each other, so probably the passenger found out from the B/O.
There was also a bit of hesitancy in using the timed connections (understandably). At Patchogue, there was a passenger who needed to go to Wyandanch, so I told him to take the S2 to the S12, and he was a bit worried if there was going to be a connecting bus in Bay Shore at that time. I assured him there would be, but he ended up taking the S51 to Ronkonkoma for the LIRR.
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41 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:
Is there really enough through riding between the South and North Forks to justify keeping the 92 as a single route? Would it run better as two routes?
Yes, it would definitely be better as two routes.
On top of that, the span of service ends much earlier than all of the other routes. Regardless of whether it is run as one route or two, it should at least connect with the last buses in the 10pm hour out of Riverhead. To my understanding, the depot is down in Southampton...if that's the case, then the last four buses should all be running in-service to Southampton rather than out-of-service.
For what it's worth, they seem to have built some recovery time into the route at Riverhead. Southbound trips from Riverhead to Flanders are scheduled for 13 minutes, while northbound ones are scheduled for almost 30 minutes. Likewise, from the railroad station to Main Street & Old Country Road is scheduled for 7 minutes southbound, and 17 minutes northbound.
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Just now, The TransitMan said:
Didn't know that the 92 serves Bridgehampton LIRR directly. The station itself is about 5-10 minutes north of Montauk Hwy and it's a VERY tight turn-around for the 40 ft bus especially if the turn-around (parking lot) is full.
Whoops, misread the schedule...it says "Montauk Highway & Corwith Street" as the Bridgehampton timepoint.
Side note, the 10B & 10C will now officially run until 12/31/23 as per the website, until they get the microtransit zone up and running.
1
He was apparently one of the flaggers in the work zone.
line station (pretty much the one right in front of the PATH, but honestly I've never paid attention to where the escalators are relative to it). If you want the 
that is a much longer walk within the complex to the Chambers Street or Fulton Street stations. I know there's a lot of escalators throughout the complex but I'm not sure if it is completely stair-free.
Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread
in New York City Bus
Posted
The Q37 has one branch under this plan.
I agree, that Q7 extension would've made it much more useful on the eastern end.
Amen to that
Can't say I'm in the same boat with you...in an all-or-nothing scenario, I would've taken the previous plan over this one in a heartbeat...
Yeah...wonder what was up with that...
On the contrary, they make a point to mention on page 18:
The original version was great in terms of connectivity, but had way too large of a gap between stops. In the New Draft Plan, they added back stops, and in the Proposed Final Plan, they cut it back to Rockaway Blvd. The route itself is still a solid route, but I do think there would've been a good advantage to having a connection from Woodhaven Blvd to Gateway Mall (now with the Q8 being cut back to Euclid Avenue, it's a three bus ride from the Woodhaven Blvd corridor to Gateway Mall).
Speaking of some of their comments.
...so we took it out of the plan...very smart...
Are you referring to the Q14/QT82 to 103rd Street being the closest option rather than being able to take the Q47 to 69th Street?
No, it was due to NIMBYs along the route...
I did a double-take when I saw you mentioned Briarwood...I guess they didn't want too many buses at Kew Gardens...but yeah I agree...they should've just stuck with the plan of running it straight down 73rd Avenue...maybe run it to Forest Hills if they don't want it to go to Kew Gardens.
It should've started at Jamaica LIRR station and taken Sutphin to Brinkerhoff...would've been much better than all of the meandering it does...if necessary, it could go down Brewer instead the connection to Jamaica Center is needed.
Honestly, that's what I thought when I first saw the proposal...very random...
Well something needs to cover that section of Williamsburg served by the lower section of the B24...this Q68 doesn't resemble the original one at all in Queens. I get that they figured they were connecting two major hubs (WBP and Jackson Heights) via a highway, but they should've just stuck with the original plan. Service across the 39th Street bridge from Sunnyside to Astoria was very widely requested in the first round of outreach back in Spring 2019.
On to some of the comments/responses from the MTA themselves (the top 25 most commented routes that they have buried on their website)
So because a bunch of foamers asked for a ridiculous extension, we had to get rid of a reasonable extension...makes perfect sense...
So that connection from the southern section of Forest Hills to 108th Street was maintained...at the expense of the Corona - Forest Hills riders...so now anybody from North Corona who needs to connect to the Queens Blvd express trains to Jamaica is SOL....
From what, the 64th Avenue stop in Fresh Meadows...they could've just routed the Q30 down 188th Street and called it a day.
Yeah...let's rewrite history and pretend that it was the Q52 that we tried to discontinue, and not the Q53...and let's forget that we tried to cram a whole bunch of routes into the terminal bays at Victor Moore Terminal...
...so we took that out of the plan...