GojiMet86
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Quote
Gov. Hochul sees light at end of NYC’s long-abandoned Second Ave. subway tunnel during tour with MTA chief
By Clayton Guse
November 23, 2021 7:42 PMNew York is about to build the world’s most expensive subway line — a project that’s been in the works for a century. Gov. Hochul on Tuesday toured a long-abandoned tunnel beneath Second Ave. in East Harlem that Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials plan to repurpose for the second phase of the Second Ave. subway.
The tunnel will help extend the Q line from its current northern terminus at Second Ave. and E. 96th St. to E. 125th St. and Lexington Ave. with two new stations in between.
The old tunnel runs between E. 110th St. and E. 120th St., and was dug in the early 1970s. Work stopped in 1974 amid the city’s financial crisis.
Extending the Second Ave. Subway 1.6 miles to Harlem will cost an estimated $6.3 billion, say MTA officials.
That’s $3.9 billion per mile, far and away the highest cost of any subway extension project in the history of the world, according to a study by researchers at New York University’s Marron Institute.
The price does not include the cost to use debt to finance the project, which brings the total bill to $6.9 billion.
The MTA has for more than two years awaited movement by the Federal Transit Administration to approve $3.4 billion to get the project going. Hochul on Tuesday said the money would come soon thanks to the infrastructure bill signed by President Biden earlier this month.
“We think we can get started one year from now,” Hochul said. Acting MTA chairman Janno Lieber said the sky-high price tag was a “bargain.”
“It will serve, when it opens, as many people as the entire Philadelphia subway system,” said Lieber.
“Everybody likes to talk about cost, but you’ve got to look at how many people it serves,” he said. “By the standards of riders, this is an incredibly efficient project, especially compared to everything else that comes before the federal government for funding.”
MTA filings to the feds estimate the construction of the extension will take seven years to finish. If that holds true, trains won’t run beneath Second Ave. in East Harlem until at least the end of 2029.
“I’m doing it in my terms in office, so it’s going to be a lot less than that,” Hochul said. She hopes the project will be speeded up by the controversial “design-build” contracting method the MTA has since 2019 been required by state law to employ.
Under design-build, the MTA consolidates design and construction work into a single contract rather than multiple separate contracts. Its impact on speeding up projects is not yet clear.
Hochul is the ninth governor to hold office since the East Harlem tunnel project broke ground during Nelson Rockefeller’s administration.
Plans to build the Second Ave. subway date back to the 1920s, when private companies ran the city’s subway lines. But it never came to fruition.
The abandoned tunnel Hochul toured is dusty, rusty and tattered — and it’s not the only one. The MTA in 1974 also stopped work on another Second Ave. tunnel between 99th and 105th Sts. that Lieber said will also be repurposed.
Another tunnel built by the city under Canal St. in Chinatown for the Second Ave. subway was also abandoned — but changes to the line’s plan mean it’s no longer needed.
The Second Ave. subway’s construction was approved in 1967 when New York voters OK’d $2.5 billion of bonds to pay for transportation improvements.
At the time, city and state officials planned for the line to run along Manhattan’s East Side up into the Bronx. If MTA officials ever make good plans for the line’s final two phases, the line would one day stretch from 125th St. to Hanover Square in the Financial District.
The money approved in 1967 was also supposed to pay for a set of double-decker East River tunnels, one of which now carries the F line between Manhattan and Queens. The other tunnel is being used for the MTA’s East Side Access project to bring Long Island Rail Road trains into a new station beneath Grand Central Terminal, which is expected to open to the public in Dec. 2022.This line got me:
Acting MTA chairman Janno Lieber said the sky-high price tag was a “bargain.”
The delusion with these people, sheesh.
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1 hour ago, SevenEleven said:
Edit: Nvm, lemme verify that. It says 250 for MTA Bus (which could be the Prevosts) and 92 for NYCT.
1300-1629 are the first 330 (257 MTA Bus + 50 NYCT + 23 NYCT SIM23/24).
1630-1971 could potentially be the next 342 (250 MTA Bus + 92 NYCT) if all are Prevost, or some other fleet number if they are MCI.
That would be a total of 672 new coaches. If they retire all the older MCIs (D4500CL, D4500CT), and we add the old 390 Prevost (2400-2789) and assume all buses are active and not written off just for the sake of counting, that would be a total of 1062 coaches.
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9628, 9637, 9658, 9664, 9701, 9767, and 9782 have all been out today. Good to see them coming back.
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5 hours ago, SevenEleven said:
The XDE and LFS orders are specifically targeting the Orion OGs for replacement and some of the NGs. If you’ve noticed, NYCT has been sending hand me downs over to MTA Bus to retire something until an order comes in. (First with the RTS, then the first OGs and now the NGs) All of the depots that have/had OGs are getting new buses right now.
The next local bus order is definitely going for the NGs and some of the 2011 fleet. The next express order is going to make this Prevost city unless MCI pulls something.
Any word on the number of coaches they're looking at for the next order?
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7 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:
Uh, a bit off topic but why are the subway bullets bigger?
Recent effort by Harry to change the size:
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It should be here, in Content View Behavior:
https://www.nyctransitforums.com/settings/links/
The 3 options are:
When opening content...
* Take me to comments I haven't read
* Take me to the beginning
* Take me to the latest comment
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Quick little summary of all the former MTA Bus coaches at Charleston:
3069, 3072, 3076, 3084, 3087, 3096, 3109, 3116, 3117, 3136, 3137, 3175, 3186, 3187
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If I am understanding this correctly, the 33 initial buses are now part of the 21000 series (21335 - 21367) as opposed to being added on to the 118 option (instead of 22001 - 22151, now it is just 22001 - 22118).
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13 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:
geez, I hope they will be retired. I've always wondered what model year those units were... from any pix i see of 'em, they look a tad on the tired side
1901-1930 were the 2002-2004 GO Transit units; 1931-1940 were former 2003 NJT units.
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10 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:
The issue is going to be politics, People aren't going to want their routes changing and etc. This is why the system sucks. If WWII didn't happen, The IND would have been way better than it is now. Even if you guys want deinterlined service, Politics and dumb people will get in the way and on certain lines it won't be possible due to how the certain lines were built or under built..
Also The issue at Dekalb sucks but the fact that they still don't want to build a replacement tunnel to take trains off that piece of shit bridge is really concerning. I bet in a few years we are going to go through ether the north side or south side of the bridge closing again. That Bridge has a major flaw and the fact that trains run on the edges of it vs. the middle like the Williamsburg. from 1988-2001 trains only ran on one side of the bridge and even before then causing it to tilt uneven which made the condition worse. I have a gut feeling we are going to go back to those days in a few years.
Just build a replacement tunnel and reconfigure Dekalb and you'll have better service.
My understanding is that before COVID, the MTA had been seriously planning on swapping the
and the 
on 63rd/53rd. Maybe it still is. Back when the 
started, people complained through the roof about the running on 53rd Street. But after a while, ridership on the picked up and the complaints went away. How funny would it be if people complained again.
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Turns out some weeks ago, a manhole cover legit lifted a Q66 on Northern Boulevard. Jeez, the force of that cover......
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9 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:
Yes, I just pointed the real-life aspect out in another thread today about the whole deinterlining fixation some of them have. They got defensive 😆 "Lionel" is an accurate term for it, very much so.
If they took the time to scratch the surface, peel away the layers of the onion, they'd have a moment of reckoning and realize how backwards, corrupt and non-changing the public transportation state of affairs really is, not just in NY or the Northeast, but the US in general. The fact that most small towns in America were better-connected by rail 60 or 70 years ago than they are today, speaks volumes.
At this point, the only way I think I'll ever see better transit is by moving. To Europe.
You do know that in Europe, almost all metro systems are deinterlined, right?
Just pointing out the real-life aspects.
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7 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:
IMO having 2 lines serve Astoria is dumb. IMO the Broadway Locals should go to Queens
while the Expresses 
should go to to 96th and 2nd ave. having 3 services in the 60th st tube sucks. You could increase the service on the by having some trains ether short turn at canal or some go to Brooklyn during the rush hours. Plus this would keep the / on one track while the is on the express tracks with no switching involved (34th st).
The
would serve Astoria Weekends and late nights when the isn't running.
As long as lines can have reliable, frequent service, like waiting every 3 minutes instead of having 3 minutes followed by long 8 minute gaps I'm good. Yeah, having the expresses only go to 96th Street and having all the locals use the tunnel is good.
On a separate note, I wonder if the 63rd Street line could ever be hooked to the local tracks via those abandoned trackways at 57th Street.
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36 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:
Agree 100 percent with your take on the whole deinterlining thing. It's really refreshing to see actual transit personnel provide solid counterpoints to the transit-planning wannabes on these boards.
What's wrong with wanting to be a transit planner? Why the hate? It doesn't even have to be implented fully. Some places yes, some places no.
In real life, there are clearly some instances where it sucks to interline. Even before the TA started going nose-diving to the bottom in 2018, it was already a PITA waiting for the N and W. It's a problem when my parents, who know nothing trains, used to notice that they had to wait for two
trains to pass before an Astoria train would show up.
It is a big problem going back decades that one little problem at the DeKalb and Nostrand junctions screws up everything.
Even the bus people know that bus interlining runs can screw with a bus line's frequencies.
Just as people want to interline for the sake of de-interlining everything, there are also people who hate the "fad" for the sake of hating the fad.
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IMG_7843 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7850 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7854 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7864 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7868 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7882 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7898 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7899 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7925 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7945 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7953 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7971 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7977 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7983 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7989 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_7996 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8002 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8004 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8072 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8091 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8097 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8104 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8109 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8344 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8733 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8768 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8802 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8812 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8823 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8832 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8861 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8864 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_8882 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
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Best point of reference is the CPTDB wiki page. It's not official, as it is compiled by other busfans, but I would look at the Paratransit roster.
https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Central_New_York_Regional_Transportation_Authority
2950-2962 are 2009 IC Bus 3200/ElDorado National Aero Lite
1020-1031 are 2010 IC Bus 3200/ElDorado National Aero Lite
1115-1118 are 2011 IC Bus 3200/ElDorado National Aero Lite
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Has anyone ever come across this map before?
https://hudsontma.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/HTMA_Map2018_R2_Revised.pdf
This map of Hudson County has maps from the NJT timetables and has its own custom transit map.
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4 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:
I heard something like an old SMEE at Rockefeller a few hours ago and you could basically smell the R9's even though they left.
The holiday train is coming back!
Someone posted a FB video of it being moved. I don't know how likely it is for being used for any excursions.
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2 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:
Yes, but crying "environmental racism" is disingenuous (at best) because the bus garage was there before minorities were.
Why does it matter if the bus garage came before? Does it have some indisputable right to exist? Last time I checked, health is pretty important. It's why we've been moving towards transit that emits less pollution than before.
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From the MTA's flickr:
LIEAST211101 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
Governor Hochul and MTA Leadership Take LIRR Ride Direct to Grand Central by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
Governor Hochul and MTA Leadership Take LIRR Ride Direct to Grand Central by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
Governor Hochul and MTA Leadership Take LIRR Ride Direct to Grand Central by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
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6 minutes ago, TomaszSBklyn said:
Terrific! If you scroll through the past few pages you will notice (examples available upon request, although I am sure you can find them yourself) that quite a few participants in this topic engaged in what you would consider as off-topic discussions.
Are you planning to lecture all of them?
They've been told many times before by the mods, but they never listen. They'll tell each other to stop it, but it never does.
So start bringing those conversations here, and not there.
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40 minutes ago, TomaszSBklyn said:
I am confused. So the only type of information that belongs to this post is the type: "XXXX (bus number) from Depot A to Depot B"? What about historical information relevant to transfers in general? How is that a "nonsensical drivel"?
Read the description of the thread above:
"This TOPIC is strictly for bus deliveries, moves & transfers. Any discussion related to these moves should be done in the MTA Bus Operations: Fleets and Depots and Bus - Random Thoughts threads."
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A bus can have the same number of seats but the height, the thickness, and the angle of the seat could all be different. I can't find any dimensions/measurements for the seats and distance between them at the moment.
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I don't know if it's old, because the same person just posted photos of 3096 and a couple of other former MTA Bus coaches with Charleston stickers. He writes they've been transferred because they are short on buses and for a future SIM23/24 takeover.
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and the 
on 63rd/53rd. Maybe it still is. Back when the 
started, people complained through the roof about the 
while the Expresses 
should go to to 96th and 2nd ave. having 3 services in the 60th st tube sucks. You could increase the service on the
BUS - Random Thoughts Thread
in New York City Bus
Posted
Some kid has been playing around with the depot stickers, placing the old Hudson Pier sticker on top of the Quill sticker on buses.