Will the PATH ever be extended to Grand Central?

[MAA89]

The voltage and 3rd rail spec is identical, and the signals are very similar however PATH trains are of a totally different design and operate under an FRA wavier, if they ran onto subway tracks that connection to the NEC would have to be severed, because it would risk main line rail equipment getting into the subway.

 

PATH trains could however operate on the SIR without modifying its FRA wavier, but charter forbids the sharing of tracks without written agreements. Also the loading gauge is different. Since operates under a state charter, technically the state owns all of the subway, LIRR, MNRR, busses etc & any trackage sharing would be a hurdle legally. And you'd have much smaller rolling stock with a large gap between train & platform. :cool:

 

Thanks for explaining all that.

 

A more practical solution is a GCT extension utilizing the west side terminal track allowing 33rd to remain as a terminal for yellow line trains. Blue line hob-33 could be extended to GCT and re-open the 2 closed stations.

 

Also they need to have a service from newark to the airtrain terminal. It really is not that far of a distance & there are several options.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

By the way, how will a possible expansion be financed. What are the Port Authority's sources for funding capital improvement projects and will it be sufficient for such an undertaking?

[metsfan]

As far as under lexington, not gonna happen. Much easier to go north from the west (left) terminal track and have a through track in the center to make it double tracked for service in both directions simultaneously, then re-open 19th st, and possibly 28th st.

 

As far as funding, i'm not sure, all i know is that the PA makes major large huge $$$$ off the airports, heliports, bus terminals, and shipping terminals. Running PATH is as expensive for them as it is for to run half the compared to their other operations. A new runway at newark intl (which some feel would be a good idea, me included) would cost more than extending PATH to GCT. It's a matter of "should we do it","why", *answer, repeat* till the funds are collected to do it. Honestly i see ARC and WTC, and airport and harbor stuff as far more important than a few block PATH extension for the time being, which is, you guessed it, why it hasn't happened all ready.

 

Once WTC is finished & mostly leased out, once the transit hub, ARC, new, larger container terminals are finished & running, newark intl is done being renovated, and all of the old PAx cars are gone & it's only PA5 and grove street is lengthened for 10 car trains on the red line will you see any serious numbers or proposals or draft EIS etc even begin to emerge. Also, they need to replace 2 bridges between NY and NJ, see if one or both can carry rail, while clearing bigarsed cargo ships as well.

 

So, as you can see, they have a lot on their plate, and when they finish these monumentally difficult, expensive, vital, and mind boggling projects, yes, this extension WILL be possible financially. :cool:

 

- A

[metsfan]

http://world.nycsubway.org/us/path/hmhistory.html

 

- A

[MTR Admiralty]

I'm not sure if re-opening 19th Street is necessary, it's all about the ridership market and how it will affect travel times. If nobody is using it, they are better off walking to 23rd or 14th. That's the reason why they closed it yesteryear, however if the ridership justifies any re-opening, so be it.

[MTR Admiralty]

I can assure you that will NEVER happen.

 

 

 

That isn't the real reason why they closed 19th Street. Ridership had no contributing factor in the closure of that station.

First part: THEORETICAL/HYPOTHETICAL. There are many other viable alignments towards Grand Central, but I'll tell you this, there are no plans on the PA's table about expanding inside New York yet.

Second part: The station was closed well before many of us were born. Many factors can lead to a station's closure, such as the distance from one station to another.

 

And do me a favour, if you insist on fighting on this forum, you can do so some place else. Fighting against certain members on multiple threads is not allowed on this forum.

[metsfan]

I'm not sure if re-opening 19th Street is necessary, it's all about the ridership market and how it will affect travel times. If nobody is using it, they are better off walking to 23rd or 14th. That's the reason why they closed it yesteryear, however if the ridership justifies any re-opening, so be it.

 

I meant for the line extended to GCT they can serve those stations. You could have an astor place-GCT line as well. :cool:

 

 

I can assure you that will NEVER happen.

 

That isn't the real reason why they closed 19th Street. Ridership had no contributing factor in the closure of that station.

 

If you can't contribute to this forum positively and constructively please leave.

 

- A

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[MAA89]

What's with all this dislike and jealousy on me in recent weeks? Don't even bother answering that question.

 

Metsfan is right. Please provide information confirming your claims or disproving other's claims and provide appropriate sources. While you haven't done anything grievously wrong on this thread, I have seen your activity on other threads and criticism of your attitude do apply. Realize that you were banned once. I am not sure why Harry let you back in, but make the most of your chance. No one is obliged to accept claims backed by your word alone and no proper sources.

[metsfan]

 

Like i said, it could easily dive under.

 

- A

[MTR Admiralty]

From the book New York Underground, there is a picure of Grand Central with several levels. The top level includes the el, street level: street car, one level under is the subway, another level is the H and M. THEN, under that is the LIRR. I'm scanning the picture now.

[Far Rock Depot]

I meant for the line extended to GCT they can serve those stations. You could have an astor place-GCT line as well. :cool:

 

- A

 

i could see astor pl being used but IMO not for GCT service. You have the IRT for that there, a stop at Astor for a connection for to GCT service would work, but to give a reason for that line only to branch off for more than one stop, maybe East Village service. A lot of "Bridge and Tunnel" commuters frequent the East Ville after work and on weekends. maybe across St Marks Place to Ave A. it would sure make it easier for them to just hop on the PATH there instead of stumbling to 6 Ave and 9th street. safer too.

[metsfan]

i could see astor pl being used but IMO not for GCT service. You have the IRT for that there, a stop at Astor for a connection for to GCT service would work, but to give a reason for that line only to branch off for more than one stop, maybe East Village service. A lot of "Bridge and Tunnel" commuters frequent the East Ville after work and on weekends. maybe across St Marks Place to Ave A. it would sure make it easier for them to just hop on the PATH there instead of stumbling to 6 Ave and 9th street. safer too.

 

You could connect it farther east to the & areas now under-served by (NYCT).

 

I think an extension to the airport combined with these 2 extensions would do 3 things. One, it would firmly & conveniently hook together NY and NJ like never before. 2, it would allow the PA to order more cars & justify lengthening all of the stations to 10 cars. 3, the very-connected nature of the expanded system benefits the & (NJT) in service outage & emergency situations.

 

- A

[Far Rock Depot]

You could connect it farther east to the & areas now under-served by (NYCT).

 

I think an extension to the airport combined with these 2 extensions would do 3 things. One, it would firmly & conveniently hook together NY and NJ like never before. 2, it would allow the PA to order more cars & justify lengthening all of the stations to 10 cars. 3, the very-connected nature of the expanded system benefits the & (NJT) in service outage & emergency situations.

 

- A

 

the would be served if the PATH goes east to Ave A. Astor Place-Second Ave-Ave A. Though i dont beleive theres an 8th/9th street stop planned for SAS Phase 3.

And you bring up a very good point. the expanded system would benefit the inter-rail accessability of NYC!

[metsfan]

If there is space you could dive it under the SAS & bring it north or south to connect with the closest planned station & have that be the 9th st terminal. You could easily run it below SAS for this length & have elevator & stairwell connection.

 

- A

[MTR Admiralty]

the would be served if the PATH goes east to Ave A. Astor Place-Second Ave-Ave A. Though i dont beleive theres an 8th/9th street stop planned for SAS Phase 3.

And you bring up a very good point. the expanded system would benefit the inter-rail accessability of NYC!

There isn't, as they want the SAS station to be spaced further apart. The nearest stop to the north is 14th, the nearest to the south is Houston Street.

[Far Rock Depot]

There isn't, as they want the SAS station to be spaced further apart. The nearest stop to the north is 14th, the nearest to the south is Houston Street.

 

i was just about to confirm that. Thanks!

 

a can see it turning south to houston st.

 

14th street riders can use the to 6th ave for PATH.

 

the lower east side could work due to all the BnT crowds as well enjoying the night!