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Snow on the line


nhrrwtby

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Well most of the time the third rail isn't affected by the snow but it can have problems once the snow gets too deep. For example the LIRR recently created the "snow policy" which states that once the snow level reaches 10 inches there will be delays. This was created because of the snow in december that had people stranded for 6 hours on a LIRR train. Also MNRR's contact shoes pick up power on the bottom of the third rail while LIRR trains pick up on the top. The New Haven line has an advantage and disadvantage. The pro is that they have overhead catenary wires. The con is that they share with Amtrak so if Amtrak has a delay then the New Haven line has a delay.

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Well most of the time the third rail isn't affected by the snow but it can have problems once the snow gets too deep. For example the LIRR recently created the "snow policy" which states that once the snow level reaches 10 inches there will be delays. This was created because of the snow in december that had people stranded for 6 hours on a LIRR train. Also MNRR's contact shoes pick up power on the bottom of the third rail while LIRR trains pick up on the top. The New Haven line has an advantage and disadvantage. The pro is that they have overhead catenary wires. The con is that they share with Amtrak so if Amtrak has a delay then the New Haven line has a delay.

 

Exactly. MNR trains are required to yield to Amtrak trains, I believe. So, if Amtrak is running behind (have they ever not been?) and hits a switch at the same time a New Haven Line train does, you now have two late trains from two different agencies.

 

Also of note is that problems on the Harlem and Hudson Lines can also affect New Haven Line trains as well due to back-ups through the Woodlawn Junction. Equipment problems, track debris, rail conditions, etc. on all lines can delay trains and reduce available tracks into AND out of GCT to the point where a downed tree near Fleetwood at 5 pm can cause delayed, cancelled and combined trains all over the New Haven Line.

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The New Haven line has an advantage and disadvantage. The pro is that they have overhead catenary wires. The con is that they share with Amtrak so if Amtrak has a delay then the New Haven line has a delay.

 

The Hudson Line also shares it's rails with Amtrak. Even though Amtrak might be delayed, Metro North's RTC controls the rails and can switch Metro North's trains around Amtrak's and vice versa. The New Haven line has four tracks to move the trains around from NYC to Milford. The worst that will happen is one train may have to be held up for a few minutes while another clears a block. In summery an Amtrak train being delayed will rarely have an effect on one of MNR's trains.

 

One disadvantage with the cat's is there are speed restrictions (from what I'm told by one of the RTC's 60 MPH) in the extreme cold weather due to there being too much tension on the wires.

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The Hudson Line also shares it's rails with Amtrak. Even though Amtrak might be delayed, Metro North's RTC controls the rails and can switch Metro North's trains around Amtrak's and vice versa. The New Haven line has four tracks to move the trains around from NYC to Milford. The worst that will happen is one train may have to be held up for a few minutes while another clears a block. In summery an Amtrak train being delayed will rarely have an effect on one of MNR's trains.

 

One disadvantage with the cat's is there are speed restrictions (from what I'm told by one of the RTC's 60 MPH) in the extreme cold weather due to there being too much tension on the wires.

 

A late Amtrak train can cause more problems than you might realize depending on the location and the time of day. The worst issue I've seen result from a late Amtrak train was the signal maintainer who was killed at Pike Interlocking last January. I was on the MNR train that clipped the worker, who had stepped out of the way of a northbound Amtrak and right into the MNR train which was obscured by a bend. I've taken that MNR many times headed back home, and rarely have I seen Amtrak at that hour. The Amtrak already had significant delays prior to that incident.

 

And a disabled train or wire damage or whatever that can put service to a halt can back up the Harlem and Hudson Lines, which are only two tracks each, back to the interlocking, creating delays for trains exiting the city and then for those entering, as now everyone has to switch tracks and run in Restricted mode until they receive a better aspect. Two summers ago, a hailstorm/tornado downed a few trees on the Harlem Line, and my train to NH was twenty minutes late in departing, and shortly thereafter, all service into and out of GCT had been cancelled until the problem was clear.

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18 inches of snow can shut down MNRR & LIRR due to the lack of access to the third rail:eek:

 

Not really because...

1. The MNRR wont let that much snow gather on the rails.

2. Because trains run frequently it is not likely.

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A late Amtrak train can cause more problems than you might realize depending on the location and the time of day. The worst issue I've seen result from a late Amtrak train was the signal maintainer who was killed at Pike Interlocking last January. I was on the MNR train that clipped the worker, who had stepped out of the way of a northbound Amtrak and right into the MNR train which was obscured by a bend. I've taken that MNR many times headed back home, and rarely have I seen Amtrak at that hour. The Amtrak already had significant delays prior to that incident.

 

And a disabled train or wire damage or whatever that can put service to a halt can back up the Harlem and Hudson Lines, which are only two tracks each, back to the interlocking, creating delays for trains exiting the city and then for those entering, as now everyone has to switch tracks and run in Restricted mode until they receive a better aspect. Two summers ago, a hailstorm/tornado downed a few trees on the Harlem Line, and my train to NH was twenty minutes late in departing, and shortly thereafter, all service into and out of GCT had been cancelled until the problem was clear.

 

I'm not saying that there will never be delays to MNR trains. I understand that extenuating circumstances such as the situation at Pike or various weather events that anything can happen. I'm even anticipating delays across the board as a result of today's snow.

 

The Harlem and Hudson lines only have two tracks above Crestwood and Croton Harmon respectively.

 

Last summer one of the Hudson line tracks was shut down all summer in the vicinity of New Hamburg to Poughkeepise. As the result of only one track operating, the delays were rarely more than 5 or 10 minutes for MNR trains. I can't speak for the delays on Amtrak or CSX. The same held true for the tie replacement project on the Harlem Line from White Plains to Southeast.

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I'm not saying that there will never be delays to MNR trains. I understand that extenuating circumstances such as the situation at Pike or various weather events that anything can happen. I'm even anticipating delays across the board as a result of today's snow.

 

The Harlem and Hudson lines only have two tracks above Crestwood and Croton Harmon respectively.

 

Last summer one of the Hudson line tracks was shut down all summer in the vicinity of New Hamburg to Poughkeepise. As the result of only one track operating, the delays were rarely more than 5 or 10 minutes for MNR trains. I can't speak for the delays on Amtrak or CSX. The same held true for the tie replacement project on the Harlem Line from White Plains to Southeast.

 

That is true, however, those were scheduled service changes, and delays are almost always expected to accompany those. Generally, if a weather-related issue affects one line, all three will have problems because of the close geographic proximity. A blizzard that hits the Hudson will most likely hit the Harlem and New Haven as well.

 

FYI: my 1503 train to New Haven arrived at GCT two minutes ahead of schedule, 5:45 am. You're right about expecting delays across the board today though. Good luck with your commute, Partner.

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I've learned quite a bit about MNRR operations from this thread, and I'd like to thank everyone who offered information.

 

My original question probably wasn't worded very well. The intent of the question was to ask those "in the know" whether snow and ice affect the Harlem Line more than the New Haven Line because of the 3rd rail vs. the catenary. Clearly there are more factors involved than just weather, and I get that, but (all other things equal) do snow and ice affect the 3rd rail more than the catenary?

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I've learned quite a bit about MNRR operations from this thread, and I'd like to thank everyone who offered information.

 

My original question probably wasn't worded very well. The intent of the question was to ask those "in the know" whether snow and ice affect the Harlem Line more than the New Haven Line because of the 3rd rail vs. the catenary. Clearly there are more factors involved than just weather, and I get that, but (all other things equal) do snow and ice affect the 3rd rail more than the catenary?

 

No not really.:P

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Snow and ice and affect the lines in different ways.

 

On the New Haven ice build up on the wire can cause delays if damage is caused to the pantograph or if the wire comes down. Additionally, if ice is found in a particular area the MAS can be reduced to 30 mph to reduce damage to the the pantograph shoes.

 

Also because most of the doors on the New Haven line are on one side, this can cause ice build up in the door mechanisms, causing the doors to not open or close correctly when they open on less used side, usually 125th street.

 

One the Hudson & Harlem lines, the third rail is usually less susceptible to snow and ice. But enough ice on the third rail might break off some shoes.

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Snow and ice and affect the lines in different ways.

 

On the New Haven ice build up on the wire can cause delays if damage is caused to the pantograph or if the wire comes down. Additionally, if ice is found in a particular area the MAS can be reduced to 30 mph to reduce damage to the the pantograph shoes.

 

Also because most of the doors on the New Haven line are on one side, this can cause ice build up in the door mechanisms, causing the doors to not open or close correctly when they open on less used side, usually 125th street.

 

One the Hudson & Harlem lines, the third rail is usually less susceptible to snow and ice. But enough ice on the third rail might break off some shoes.

 

With my research done, I'm going to have to agree with Homeball

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All third rails will have problems with both deep snow and ice buildup. The under-running third rail is suceptible to icicles, which might damage the shoes if they're big enough. If there is a thick enough coat of ice on over-running third rails, the shoes wouldn't make contact at all. If the coat is ALS spread out over a long distance, that's enough to disable the MUs

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All third rails will have problems with both deep snow and ice buildup. The under-running third rail is suceptible to icicles, which might damage the shoes if they're big enough. If there is a thick enough coat of ice on over-running third rails, the shoes wouldn't make contact at all. If the coat is ALS spread out over a long distance, that's enough to disable the MUs

 

What's ALS?

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