They're At it again...why America MUST STAND UP TO THEM

[CenSin]

The irony of China's move is that it takes care of its own pollution problems while stifling the progress of others'. Seeing how China is likely the biggest polluter in the industrialized world, I think it makes sense that they're doing this. And instead of whining about prices and how they've got us by the balls, shouldn't this prompt innovation in the US? That's what we're still known for, right?

[Roadcruiser1]

I am Chinese American, and I don't really like the Chinese Government. If I had a chance I would actually overthrow it. I find it to be too corrupt, and troublesome, and the fact that it is a Communist state makes me want to get rid of it even more.

[SubwayGuy]

It's ironic that the US and Western Europe built up their defenses against the Soviet Union but the weaker communist country (China) is buying their way to power in the US, Europe, and the African nations. Tell me again how the patron saint of the Republican Party, Ronald Reagan, defeated communism or am I missing something ? IIRC the saying is " money talks and BS walks" Guess who has the money.

 

Exactly but god forbid we lift the trade embargo with communist Cuba, tiny country that it is...

 

The irony of China's move is that it takes care of its own pollution problems while stifling the progress of others'. Seeing how China is likely the biggest polluter in the industrialized world, I think it makes sense that they're doing this. And instead of whining about prices and how they've got us by the balls, shouldn't this prompt innovation in the US? That's what we're still known for, right?

 

Unfortunately natural resource grabs can't be stopped. US companies have to get in there and start buying up some of the resource sites. Carnegie had it right with controlling the whole supply and production chain.

 

However technology is such that these elements can't be found anywhere, they have to be found from specific parts of the world. And the US is not willing to step in and lock China out of buying them. Controlling resources and the manufacturing economy to turn the resources into something useful, and paying fair wages under fair working conditions, is the lifeblood of any truly healthy economy.

 

Innovation is a meaningless buzz word. With China raising tariffs to profiteer off these materials, the clear solution is to raise tariffs on Chinese imports with the EXCEPTION of these materials.

[Tokkemon]

Gold is the ONLY thing that has intrinsic value, so you are wrong about the entire last part of the post (actually you're wrong about the whole thing...but mostly the last part). Gold is the only thing that history has shown ALL peoples accept as payment, for holding value. Worthless greenbacks mean nothing worldwide. Gold is always good, in any nation at any time. Many people on this planet would risk dying to have it.

 

You should read Aesop's fable about the Chicken and the Jewel. Then you'd understand what I mean when I say it has no intrinsic value.

[CenSin]

Exactly but god forbid we lift the trade embargo with communist Cuba, tiny country that it is...

 

 

 

Unfortunately natural resource grabs can't be stopped. US companies have to get in there and start buying up some of the resource sites. Carnegie had it right with controlling the whole supply and production chain.

 

However technology is such that these elements can't be found anywhere, they have to be found from specific parts of the world. And the US is not willing to step in and lock China out of buying them. Controlling resources and the manufacturing economy to turn the resources into something useful, and paying fair wages under fair working conditions, is the lifeblood of any truly healthy economy.

 

Innovation is a meaningless buzz word. With China raising tariffs to profiteer off these materials, the clear solution is to raise tariffs on Chinese imports with the EXCEPTION of these materials.

Yes: innovation is only a word, if there is no action. In a way, this situation is similar to natural selection; the high prices will force a search for different for effective materials. The U.S. needs to adapt to adapt. If they own most of our resources, my point still stands that they have our balls. The Middle Easterners have had us by the balls for quite a while. A non-technological solution will only be a temporary one.

[SubwayGuy]

You should read Aesop's fable about the Chicken and the Jewel. Then you'd understand what I mean when I say it has no intrinsic value.

 

I place value on things based on hundreds, and in some cases (like gold) thousands of years of human history...not fables with simplistic messages intended largely for children.

 

Nothing has any inherent intrinsic value if you hold a strict definition...not even life itself. But humanity universally places a value on gold, so it has always, and will always have value...as long as there are humans on this planet.

 

Perhaps if every human was killed, and dogs were left to rule the world, steaks might be the new currency of universal value...but the smart money is that's not going to happen.

[QM1to6Ave]

China will have to deal with their water supply problem soon enough. From what I have read, they will be in big trouble in a few years, which is why they have been screwing around with their dams and water sources in the last few months.

 

Forget gold, water is the ultimate commodity. In a few decades, if not years, it will be a major game changer.

[CenSin]

China will have to deal with their water supply problem soon enough. From what I have read, they will be in big trouble in a few years, which is why they have been screwing around with their dams and water sources in the last few months.

 

Forget gold, water is the ultimate commodity. In a few decades, if not years, it will be a major game changer.

Food and water will always have intrinsic value. Nature made it so and it's the only thing you can't live without. If you were starved in the middle of nowhere for a few weeks, you could live without the gold, but not food and water.

 

SubwayGuy: I could throw you in the middle of the Gobi Desert with just your gold bars and then come back a month later to find you spending it on Chinese food and tea.

[Tokkemon]

Food and water will always have intrinsic value. Nature made it so and it's the only thing you can't live without. If you were starved in the middle of nowhere for a few weeks, you could live without the gold, but not food and water.

 

SubwayGuy: I could throw you in the middle of the Gobi Desert with just your gold bars and then come back a month later to find you spending it on Chinese food and tea.

 

Exactly my point.

[SubwayGuy]

Food and water will always have intrinsic value. Nature made it so and it's the only thing you can't live without. If you were starved in the middle of nowhere for a few weeks, you could live without the gold, but not food and water.

 

SubwayGuy: I could throw you in the middle of the Gobi Desert with just your gold bars and then come back a month later to find you spending it on Chinese food and tea.

 

And that's exactly my point. When everything hits the fan, gold is the only thing that will buy you sustenance, or buy you the means of producing food yourself. It's always accepted as having exchange value in any economic system - barter, gold standard, IOUs, fiat money...you name it.

 

Try buying food with whatever currency in the middle of the Gobi desert when inflation has reached its climax, and the world is in a real global depression, and you will get none.

 

Start bottling water with your Brita filter now preparing for the apocalypse, and you might do OK, but odds are you'd lose out when no one has anything of value to pay you for it...or you'd lose out when you hoard it all for yourself, and the hungry/thirsty masses decide to take your water from you by force.

[CenSin]

And that's exactly my point. When everything hits the fan, gold is the only thing that will buy you sustenance, or buy you the means of producing food yourself. It's always accepted as having exchange value in any economic system - barter, gold standard, IOUs, fiat money...you name it.

 

Try buying food with whatever currency in the middle of the Gobi desert when inflation has reached its climax, and the world is in a real global depression, and you will get none.

 

Start bottling water with your Brita filter now preparing for the apocalypse, and you might do OK, but odds are you'd lose out when no one has anything of value to pay you for it...or you'd lose out when you hoard it all for yourself, and the hungry/thirsty masses decide to take your water from you by force.

That's a different point. I wasn't arguing that gold isn't accepted by people universally. I was arguing that gold has no intrinsic value, but it has subjective value. If you are starving in a desert, you do not eat gold. Gold is not what you really want; it's food and water that you want and which the universally accepted gold with a subjective value can help you obtain (provided it hasn't become so valuable that food and water becomes worth much more than their weight in gold).

[SubwayGuy]

That's a different point. I wasn't arguing that gold isn't accepted by people universally. I was arguing that gold has no intrinsic value, but it has subjective value. If you are starving in a desert, you do not eat gold. Gold is not what you really want; it's food and water that you want and which the universally accepted gold with a subjective value can help you obtain (provided it hasn't become so valuable that food and water becomes worth much more than their weight in gold).

 

Short of being the last person on earth...gold will always have value.

 

No one is going to wind up alone in a desert because of politicans' economic incompetence.

 

They will wind up poor while their rich masters control the supply of all goods...including food and water. So gold will always be useful.

 

This is an economic debate, not a philosophical one. I couldn't give one shit if gold has any "god given" intrinsic value or whether or not you can eat it...I care that it is universally accepted, and when all else is worthless it will still have value because of the value that humans assign to it.

 

I'm giving you all a good investment tip, and if you don't want to take it FINE. But don't come crying to me when in a few years gold is over $2000 an ounce.