PATCO shuts down 1 track on Ben Franklin Bridge for 4 months

[mfs NJT459]

for four months and including rush hour, one track is shut down on the Ben Franklin Bridge resulting in less trains.  Each track will alternate between 2 months.

 

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/nwtonight/item/68602-patco-construction-to-linger-through-summer?linktype=hp_nwt

 

New timetable: http://ridepatco.org/publish/library/PATCO_Timetable_5-30-14.pdf

 

looks like reverse rush hour commuters (PA to NJ AM, NJ to PA PM) are screwed.

 

Still, doesn't look too bad from my perspective

[traingoat]

They only have 2 tracks going over that bridge so one has to be closed for track replacement. The Lindenwald line tracks are also used by NJ Transit trains so they have an alternate if the schedule is right but it terminates at 30th Street Pennsylvania station.

[qjtransitmaster]

for four months and including rush hour, one track is shut down on the Ben Franklin Bridge resulting in less trains.  Each track will alternate between 2 months.

 

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/nwtonight/item/68602-patco-construction-to-linger-through-summer?linktype=hp_nwt

 

New timetable: http://ridepatco.org/publish/library/PATCO_Timetable_5-30-14.pdf

 

looks like reverse rush hour commuters (PA to NJ AM, NJ to PA PM) are screwed.

 

Still, doesn't look too bad from my perspective

Question reverse commute to where exactly?

[traingoat]

Question reverse commute to where exactly?

The PATCO train goes from Philadelphia to Camden County New Jersey stopping in Camden, Collingswood and a number of other towns til it terminates in Lindenwald. The New Jersey Transit runs trains from Atlantic City to 30th street Pennsylvania station in Philly via the same tracks but uses a different bridge. Traffic is heavy in both directions on PATCO as the County government has its offices in Lindenwald with only a shell in Camden city. You can walk from inside Penn station to the city subway system with no problems if needed. So its a question of schedule whether there is a problem as trains are available or not.

[mfs NJT459]

the atlantic city line has its own track, but it shares the Right of Way between Haddonfield and Lindenwold

 

PATCO tracks have a third rail

[traingoat]

the atlantic city line has its own track, but it shares the Right of Way between Haddonfield and Lindenwold

 

PATCO tracks have a third rail

I remember it being built and know PATCO is third rail but the diesels of NJ Transit can run on those tracks and some type of arraignment can be made if there is that much of a delay. Center City and Broadway in Camden will catch it as for practical purposes its their only way to Philly. The question is where are switching crossovers for PATCO where they can change directions to feed this NJ special shuttle if needed.

[GojiMet86]

The only connection is at the loop yard, unless they've built another one. One end of the yard is PATCO, and the other the connection to the Atlantic City Line. Years ago, Rich Greene had NJT, MNRR, LIRR, MBTA, and other track maps, and the NJT one showed that one connection. Google Earth also shows this.

[traingoat]

The only connection is at the loop yard, unless they've built another one. One end of the yard is PATCO, and the other the connection to the Atlantic City Line. Years ago, Rich Greene had NJT, MNRR, LIRR, MBTA, and other track maps, and the NJT one showed that one connection. Google Earth also shows this.

Thanks for the idea. I went over the track photos and at Lindenwold there is a connection but I went over the trackage to see where they have a passing siding and the line is dual track when it hits Pennsauken all the way to Philly. From memory I knew the old Seashore line was single track with long passing sidings along the way by Egg Harbor and another place. Using the Haddonfield station shared with PATCO you could run trains every 20 minutes with no delay as the double track is a couple miles away. This allows the PATCO passengers from either direction to gain access as it is midpoint in the line with the next stop being North Philadelphia and then 30th Street. This could be run during the morning and evening rush hour without difficulties or run to the end of the line using the PATCO yard to turn around as they have a wye setup and going back. You could trains every 20 minutes with no problems as the track is single from Lindenwold to Haddonfield. So it could be done

[qjtransitmaster]

Thanks for the idea. I went over the track photos and at Lindenwold there is a connection but I went over the trackage to see where they have a passing siding and the line is dual track when it hits Pennsauken all the way to Philly. From memory I knew the old Seashore line was single track with long passing sidings along the way by Egg Harbor and another place. Using the Haddonfield station shared with PATCO you could run trains every 20 minutes with no delay as the double track is a couple miles away. This allows the PATCO passengers from either direction to gain access as it is midpoint in the line with the next stop being North Philadelphia and then 30th Street. This could be run during the morning and evening rush hour without difficulties or run to the end of the line using the PATCO yard to turn around as they have a wye setup and going back. You could trains every 20 minutes with no problems as the track is single from Lindenwold to Haddonfield. So it could be done

What about tracks from lindenwood to AC?. Why you think the 451 does so poorly plus out of all NJT bus routes in the whole state it has the highest state subsidy. NJT ACRL is practically a non factor in Camden county did you know that the PATCO has an instation transfer to the MFL at 8th street which runs to 30th 5 minutes away. Plus there are other parts of Philly people are going to.

 

However if there is an opportunity for NJT's ACRL to increase ridership now would be the perfect time. If outbound service can be 20 minutes like you say it can take many off the PATCO who reverse commute. And take advantage of the suspension of express service on the PATCO.

[traingoat]

What about tracks from lindenwood to AC?. Why you think the 451 does so poorly plus out of all NJT bus routes in the whole state it has the highest state subsidy. NJT ACRL is practically a non factor in Camden county did you know that the PATCO has an instation transfer to the MFL at 8th street which runs to 30th 5 minutes away. Plus there are other parts of Philly people are going to.

 

However if there is an opportunity for NJT's ACRL to increase ridership now would be the perfect time. If outbound service can be 20 minutes like you say it can take many off the PATCO who reverse commute. And take advantage of the suspension of express service on the PATCO.

I'll try to answer what you ask. The AC line because of the single track does not to my memory only one or two passing sidings on the entire trip to AC and with the 6 stops after Lindenwald. The present line runs 12 trains round trip daily. Now single track limits the amount of trains which can be run until that block is clear a train in the opposite direction can't enter. So stations further down you could increase service to but it would be tricky scheduling as the train would be reversing direction at the station I can pull what I did at Lindenwald because its a quick 5 stations and then double track at Pennsauken. So having the trains meet at Pennsauken as one pulls in the another pulls out gives maximum use of the trackage. I knew about the transfer system with the Frankfort line but you could give transfers at 30th Street if it was that important. I wouldn't expect that line to have impact in Camden county for the simple reason a train showing up every hour on the hour with reversing directions. So if you miss the train your wait is 2 hours til the next one in your direction.

 

As for the bus its very simple, what makes a bus route popular time and the route mainly in rush hour. It takes over an hour to go from Voorhees to Camden assuming no problems and Haddon avenue on a good portion of it means the bus is late during rush hour guaranteed. Why its kept very simple the politicians of the towns it runs thru and the state assemblymen they elect.

[qjtransitmaster]

I'll try to answer what you ask. The AC line because of the single track does not to my memory only one or two passing sidings on the entire trip to AC and with the 6 stops after Lindenwald. The present line runs 12 trains round trip daily. Now single track limits the amount of trains which can be run until that block is clear a train in the opposite direction can't enter. So stations further down you could increase service to but it would be tricky scheduling as the train would be reversing direction at the station I can pull what I did at Lindenwald because its a quick 5 stations and then double track at Pennsauken. So having the trains meet at Pennsauken as one pulls in the another pulls out gives maximum use of the trackage. I knew about the transfer system with the Frankfort line but you could give transfers at 30th Street if it was that important. I wouldn't expect that line to have impact in Camden county for the simple reason a train showing up every hour on the hour with reversing directions. So if you miss the train your wait is 2 hours til the next one in your direction.

 

As for the bus its very simple, what makes a bus route popular time and the route mainly in rush hour. It takes over an hour to go from Voorhees to Camden assuming no problems and Haddon avenue on a good portion of it means the bus is late during rush hour guaranteed. Why its kept very simple the politicians of the towns it runs thru and the state assemblymen they elect.

what does that have to do with 451's abysmal ridership? I do have an idea but it's tricky and involves the 404,405&455&400 all at once. And 453.

[traingoat]

what does that have to do with 451's abysmal ridership? I do have an idea but it's tricky and involves the 404,405&455&400 all at once. And 453.

Very simple where does the bus go and what's there. Camden now has nothing and will continue that way for years or better put decades. Waiting for a trolley at the end of line means you are going somewhere else. Shopping districts which have parking set up for customers. What's the draw. One area which could use it for shopping has no money and the others that do have money aren't going the other direction. Its a look good route for show not blow. It a support for the image of Camden but does no other purpose as the commerce and offices are now elsewhere.

[qjtransitmaster]

Very simple where does the bus go and what's there. Camden now has nothing and will continue that way for years or better put decades. Waiting for a trolley at the end of line means you are going somewhere else. Shopping districts which have parking set up for customers. What's the draw. One area which could use it for shopping has no money and the others that do have money aren't going the other direction. Its a look good route for show not blow. It a support for the image of Camden but does no other purpose as the commerce and offices are now elsewhere.

I honestly don't understand why people live there in Camden what is the point.

[traingoat]

I honestly don't understand why people live there in Camden what is the point.

I watched Camden go down over the years. What kept Camden afloat was the stores , Campbell's and RCA. The shopping district when it went took the jobs which were available. Urban blight eventually destroyed all residential communities. When RCA and Campbell's said that's it and left , it was done. Haddon Ave and Kaighn was the worst intersection in the city. People live there as where else can they go to. None of the towns around want the problems. They put the New Jersey there but you might need the antiaircraft guns to protect the tourists seeing the battlewagon. All Camden is an extension of South Philly with interchanging of the people going on. Its a perfect picture of progressive government similar to Detroit destroying the place. Schools there were crap 40 years ago and had shootings at their proms 35 years ago. So what town around is going to take them, none.

[mfs NJT459]

i wonder if NJT is operating the shuttle bus for tonight

 

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/06/07/patco-service-across-ben-franklin-bridge-to-be-temporarily-suspended/

[qjtransitmaster]

I watched Camden go down over the years. What kept Camden afloat was the stores , Campbell's and RCA. The shopping district when it went took the jobs which were available. Urban blight eventually destroyed all residential communities. When RCA and Campbell's said that's it and left , it was done. Haddon Ave and Kaighn was the worst intersection in the city. People live there as where else can they go to. None of the towns around want the problems. They put the New Jersey there but you might need the antiaircraft guns to protect the tourists seeing the battlewagon. All Camden is an extension of South Philly with interchanging of the people going on. Its a perfect picture of progressive government similar to Detroit destroying the place. Schools there were crap 40 years ago and had shootings at their proms 35 years ago. So what town around is going to take them, none.

excuses why people go nowhere it's horseshit.