Major Construction to Begin on New Moynihan Train Hall

[Italianstallion]

15 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You don't commute into Grand Central like I do. I've seen a bit of everything.

I get in there at least once a month. You seem to be saying any high-end restaurant at Penn will be overwhelmed with homeless. There are several high-end restaurants in GCT. No homeless in sight.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Italianstallion said:

I get in there at least once a month. You seem to be saying any high-end restaurant at Penn will be overwhelmed with homeless. There are several high-end restaurants in GCT. No homeless in sight.

If you're talking about places like Cipriani or that Scandinavian place, of course not. Both are separated from most of Grand Central and there are waiters to keep them away.  However the food court area on the lower concourse is overrun with homeless people.  I know because I used to eat there with a colleague and stopped because I got sick of trying to eat lunch while some guy that stunk to high heavens was rummaging through the garbage cans nearby looking for food.  Aside from that a lot of them are not mentally stable, which is something I don't want to worry about.  Now most homeless people will not enter restaurants, but I've been in upscale places where they have because some are that bold.  Management had to come and get them out as they were trying to steal customers' food.  

You like to draw a lot of conclusions with limited knowledge. Unlike you I'm Grand Central almost every day at all hours of the day and night, not once a month, but keep thinking you know it all with your once a month visits.  I come into the city regularly via Metro-North and also pass through there to get to places on the East Side or West Side or get to the BxM1 or BxM2.

Besides, Grand Central closes for a little bit and also has a Homeless Outreach Team, which I've seen on numerous occasions going around on the lower level to try to get them help and shelter.  They help to tide the overflow so to speak, but many of them will still come and stay as long as they can.  The situation at Penn Station is far worse and Penn Station looks like a hell hole in comparison to Grand Central.

[Italianstallion]

On 11/21/2017 at 2:12 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

If you're talking about places like Cipriani or that Scandinavian place, of course not. Both are separated from most of Grand Central and there are waiters to keep them away.  However the food court area on the lower concourse is overrun with homeless people.  I know because I used to eat there with a colleague and stopped because I got sick of trying to eat lunch while some guy that stunk to high heavens was rummaging through the garbage cans nearby looking for food.  Aside from that a lot of them are not mentally stable, which is something I don't want to worry about.  Now most homeless people will not enter restaurants, but I've been in upscale places where they have because some are that bold.  Management had to come and get them out as they were trying to steal customers' food.  

You like to draw a lot of conclusions with limited knowledge. Unlike you I'm Grand Central almost every day at all hours of the day and night, not once a month, but keep thinking you know it all with your once a month visits.  I come into the city regularly via Metro-North and also pass through there to get to places on the East Side or West Side or get to the BxM1 or BxM2.

Besides, Grand Central closes for a little bit and also has a Homeless Outreach Team, which I've seen on numerous occasions going around on the lower level to try to get them help and shelter.  They help to tide the overflow so to speak, but many of them will still come and stay as long as they can.  The situation at Penn Station is far worse and Penn Station looks like a hell hole in comparison to Grand Central.

You like to think you know a lot but you don't. You have a history here of making broad-based statements, then pulling back when challenged.

You said this -  "They're showing pictures of women eating at fancy-looking places but, how are they going to keep the homeless from destroying the place? Grand Central has a homeless problem that drives away customers at some retail places because they take over parts of the lower and upper concourse." Let's parse this.

So, 1) you said "fancy-looking places" in Penn would be overwhelmed with homeless. How do those places differ from the GCT places "separated" and "with waiters to keep [homelesss] away"?"

And 2) you said in GCT homeless "take over parts of the lower and upper concourse." Now you've amended that to "the lower concourse is overrun with homeless people."  

Typical.

 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, Italianstallion said:

You like to think you know a lot but you don't. You have a history here of making broad-based statements, then pulling back when challenged.

You said this -  "They're showing pictures of women eating at fancy-looking places but, how are they going to keep the homeless from destroying the place? Grand Central has a homeless problem that drives away customers at some retail places because they take over parts of the lower and upper concourse." Let's parse this.

So, 1) you said "fancy-looking places" in Penn would be overwhelmed with homeless. How do those places differ from the GCT places "separated" and "with waiters to keep [homelesss] away"?"

And 2) you said in GCT homeless "take over parts of the lower and upper concourse." Now you've amended that to "the lower concourse is overrun with homeless people."  

Typical.

 

 

You're a joke. You're actually trying to challenge what I'm saying and you visit Grand Central ONCE a month while I'm there DAILY (including today), and you have the audacity to act like you know what in the hell you're talking about? Go sit down somewhere. You're a stallion alright... A washed up one... I know this is a hard thing for you to comprehend, but homeless people are humans and they move from place to place, so yes my comments are "amended" because how many of them are present depends on the time of year and how effective the Homeless Outreach is, not to mention that the lower concourse has far more seating for them to camp out in while most of the upper concourse does not, but you know all of this with your once a month visit. 

As for your other question, the answer should be pretty obvious. The lower concourse is basically an open food court that is being spruced up to bring in more high-end food vendors to draw more people besides places like Shake Shack. The places where you can simply sit with no limits or constraints is where the homeless concentrate at. Even in your once a month visit they are clearly visible on the lower concourse while they tend to walk around more on the upper level to beg for money. Penn Station has a bigger homeless problem IMO because I don't see any Homeless Outreach there and they don't close during part of the night so they can set up shop and basically never leave. If those fancy-looking places are open to the public whether they are patronizing a vendor there or not, well guess what? They will likely have a big homeless problem. You don't go to GCT enough to even tell who is homeless, but if you were there daily you'd be able to see the obvious ones that stand out and those who try to fit in. Some of them have clear mental issues and are visibly quite dirty.

[Italianstallion]

17 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You're a joke. You're actually trying to challenge what I'm saying and you visit Grand Central ONCE a month while I'm there DAILY (including today), and you have the audacity to act like you know what in the hell you're talking about? Go sit down somewhere. You're a stallion alright... A washed up one... I know this is a hard thing for you to comprehend, but homeless people are humans and they move from place to place, so yes my comments are "amended" because how many of them are present depends on the time of year and how effective the Homeless Outreach is, not to mention that the lower concourse has far more seating for them to camp out in while most of the upper concourse does not, but you know all of this with your once a month visit. 

As for your other question, the answer should be pretty obvious. The lower concourse is basically an open food court that is being spruced up to bring in more high-end food vendors to draw more people besides places like Shake Shack. The places where you can simply sit with no limits or constraints is where the homeless concentrate at. Even in your once a month visit they are clearly visible on the lower concourse while they tend to walk around more on the upper level to beg for money. Penn Station has a bigger homeless problem IMO because I don't see any Homeless Outreach there and they don't close during part of the night so they can set up shop and basically never leave. If those fancy-looking places are open to the public whether they are patronizing a vendor there or not, well guess what? They will likely have a big homeless problem. You don't go to GCT enough to even tell who is homeless, but if you were there daily you'd be able to see the obvious ones that stand out and those who try to fit in. Some of them have clear mental issues and are visibly quite dirty.

Personal insults, the last resort of a scoundrel.

You made a ridiculous case that high-end restaurants in Penn would be overrun by homeless, citing GCT as your example, when GCT supports no such position. Nothing you've added supports your half-baked theory.

A simple Google search for "Penn Station homeless outreach" yields dozens of results, including this from http://www.brc.org/outreach-unsheltered:

"WHERE WE WORK

"We have many partners.  The City of New York, through the Department of Homeless Services, the State of New York, through the MTA, and Amtrak, all invest in our efforts.  We are in the city subways 24 hours a day, each and every day, as well as at Penn Station and Grand Central, where we have offices and dedicated staff (at Penn at the foot of the escalator at 32nd and 7th, and at GCT on the lower concourse, next to the police substation)."

But of course, you "don't see any Homeless Outreach there", so of course, there isn't any. 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, Italianstallion said:

Personal insults, the last resort of a scoundrel.

You made a ridiculous case that high-end restaurants in Penn would be overrun by homeless, citing GCT as your example, when GCT supports no such position. Nothing you've added supports your half-baked theory.

A simple Google search for "Penn Station homeless outreach" yields dozens of results, including this from http://www.brc.org/outreach-unsheltered:

"WHERE WE WORK

"We have many partners.  The City of New York, through the Department of Homeless Services, the State of New York, through the MTA, and Amtrak, all invest in our efforts.  We are in the city subways 24 hours a day, each and every day, as well as at Penn Station and Grand Central, where we have offices and dedicated staff (at Penn at the foot of the escalator at 32nd and 7th, and at GCT on the lower concourse, next to the police substation)."

But of course, you "don't see any Homeless Outreach there", so of course, there isn't any. 

 

This topic has been discussed here before and other people besides me have stated that the place is overrun with homeless people. Since you're so good at looking up things, you can look that up. Of course they're going to post about how great their outreach is. That has nothing to do with what is seen IN PERSON, and again you of all people have no room to say squat with your once a month trip to GCT. People say a lot of things on paper when the reality is the complete opposite. Talk about guillible... 

[quadcorder]

@Fresh Pond are you a moderator here?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

49 minutes ago, quadcorder said:

@Fresh Pond are you a moderator here?

Yeah he's a mod. You can complain to him about how horrible I am.

[quadcorder]

Nah, just how you're always involved in every one of these arguments.

[Italianstallion]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This topic has been discussed here before and other people besides me have stated that the place is overrun with homeless people. Since you're so good at looking up things, you can look that up. Of course they're going to post about how great their outreach is. That has nothing to do with what is seen IN PERSON, and again you of all people have no room to say squat with your once a month trip to GCT. People say a lot of things on paper when the reality is the complete opposite. Talk about guillible... 

Of course there are many homeless at Penn. I never said there weren't.  But does not mean that a high-end restaurant with waiters, maitre-d and probably their own security will be overrun by them.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 minutes ago, Italianstallion said:

Of course there are many homeless at Penn. I never said there weren't.  But does not mean that a high-end restaurant with waiters, maitre-d and probably their own security will be overrun by them.

First off I said "fancy places" in my original comment and from there you went and ran with it when you clearly weren't sure what I meant by that. GCT has an array of places that could be considered fancy. These days Shake Shack is considered fancy by some, but it is not a true restaurant in that it doesn't have waiters and so on. Therefore it depends on if the place is a true restaurant where the general public cannot sit. That is the key in terms of whether or not it will have a homeless problem. The food court downstairs has a lot of places for anyone to sit and from MY EXPERIENCE having eaten down there regularly with co-workers I stopped because of the homeless problem. I'm well aware of the many restaurants within Grand Central because I eat in them. A place like La Fonda del Sol is technically within Grand Central and of course expensive with waiters and so on and while I have never seen a homeless person inside of the restaurant I have definitely been hassled for money by beggars when eating there outside so you should speak about YOUR EXPERIENCES. I work in the area and have for years, so I know what I'm talking about.

That gelato place is another spot I stopped going to because of the mentally disturbed people hanging out everywhere. Personally I think Penn Station has a much bigger problem because it is open 24/7. However if they don't have a lot of space given to open seating, it may not be a huge problem in that they can likely curb that population in parts of the station. Grand Central has started to see homeless even in parts where you previously didn't see them. They just haven't become too bold yet coming into actual establishments regularly but I have seen that too. Yes a manager or a waiter comes and gets them out, but even that is something you would never see before. 

[Italianstallion]

11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

First off I said "fancy places" in my original comment and from there you went and ran with it when you clearly weren't sure what I meant by that. GCT has an array of places that could be considered fancy. These days Shake Shack is considered fancy by some, but it is not a true restaurant in that it doesn't have waiters and so on. Therefore it depends on if the place is a true restaurant where the general public cannot sit. That is the key in terms of whether or not it will have a homeless problem. The food court downstairs has a lot of places for anyone to sit and from MY EXPERIENCE having eaten down there regularly with co-workers I stopped because of the homeless problem. I'm well aware of the many restaurants within Grand Central because I eat in them. A place like La Fonda del Sol is technically within Grand Central and of course expensive with waiters and so on and while I have never seen a homeless person inside of the restaurant I have definitely been hassled for money by beggars when eating there outside so you should speak about YOUR EXPERIENCES. I work in the area and have for years, so I know what I'm talking about.

LOL. Now you're changing your tune again. Shake Shack is fancy? Only compared to McDonald's, I guess. I don't think it was unreasonable for me to equate "fancy" with "high-end." I've eaten in the GCT lower-level food court in the last year. I was not hassled. I've eaten in the new Scandinavian food hall upstairs in the past month. There are no gates or guards. I saw no homeless. I used to work on Park and 48th for years and commuted daily via GCT. So while I no longer get there daily, I have a long and familiar history with GCT.

Just saw your edit. Your latest posts are a lot more reasonable than the first one that I responded to. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

33 minutes ago, Italianstallion said:

LOL. Now you're changing your tune again. Shake Shack is fancy? Only compared to McDonald's, I guess. I don't think it was unreasonable for me to equate "fancy" with "high-end." I've eaten in the GCT lower-level food court in the last year. I was not hassled. I've eaten in the new Scandinavian food hall upstairs in the past month. There are no gates or guards. I saw no homeless. I used to work on Park and 48th for years and commuted daily via GCT. So while I no longer get there daily, I have a long and familiar history with GCT.

Just saw your edit. Your latest posts are a lot more reasonable than the first one that I responded to. 

I agree with you on the first comparison about Mc Donald's. Fancy is subjective, and everyone has their standards on what is fancy. For me La Fonda del Sol and Cipriani is fancy. For someone used to Mc Donald's, Shake Shack is fancy given the difference in price.  You can spend $20+ at Shake Shack while Mc Donald's has a $1 menu. These days anyone moving in to these new spaces will be fancy because of the high rents. Unless they have deep pockets their prices will be high in order to cover the rent so they don't necessarily have to be sit-down maître d' types of places to get that distinction, as most places in Midtown tend to be more expensive anyway. I should note that the new place across the street from Grand Central proper (Urban Space) is considered hipster central with the prices and all and "fancy" despite just being an open food court, but I haven't seen any homeless there yet. I suspect the homeless don't know about it. I have within the last two months however seen one guy hanging out by one of the entrances asking for money when I was going in to get some snacks. Most of the people going in there are the JPMorgan, Crédit Suisse, Park Avenue types with money but they are not going to give anything so maybe the homeless know this. However the price points in there are not cheap for take-out. I generally spend $20.00 or more when I go there for lunch and then a macchiato at Toby's Estate so that's another example of a fancy place. My point is if Penn Station expects to attract the types that you and I are accustomed to seeing in Grand Central eating, they had better make sure they keep a lid on the homeless.

 

P.S. I never changed my tune. You should ask before making assumptions. You know what they say when you assume... 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, quadcorder said:

Nah, just how you're always involved in every one of these arguments.

Oh well. Such is life. You're alive and well right? The world is still functioning....

[Italianstallion]

17 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

My point is if Penn Station expects to attract the types that you and I are accustomed to seeing in Grand Central eating, they had better make sure they keep a lid on the homeless.

If you had said it that way at the start, there would have been no argument.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

On 8/17/2017 at 7:44 PM, Vtrain said:

Why isn't NJ Transit on there.

NJT can barely fund their own operations without sucking on the teat of federal bailouts, which comprise nearly 37% of their budget. Sad!

If any transit agency in this region is going to hell, they're on top of the list.