Special ed teacher busted for hopping subway turnstile on the Upper East Side

[RailRunRob]

50 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

You vote for people who make the laws. This is fifth grade civics.

We inherited an entire body of English common law going back to at least the Middle Ages, and the American court system built on its own precedence starting in 1776. Strict sentencing is actually very bad, because mandatory minimum sentencing is how we got our prisons full of people that smoked weed once.

You have to be kidding me. A BS from UC Cal and a fellowship at Stanford seems I’ve been in the wrong places picking the wrong minds fifth grade huh? Go figure I’ll keep that in mind.I understand the Republic fairly well  or at least I thought I did. The internet generation the Worlds  knowledge at your fingertips great time to be alive lucky you. Since you completely missed the mark my comment comes from the point of humans inability to be impartial and the fact that the people that as you eloquently stated we vote in operate on perceived elements and not logic and facts. The law is based on someone perceived perception a person made it up. My question who makes the law? Who can change the law.  18th century  you’re proving my point here! 1776? 2017? 1776?Umm  Shouldn’t the law be a bit more dynamic  and based on current realities?   The concepts of right and wrong even the law is based on human perception a person experience, interests and feeling the human element. I don’t feel great about that. What say you on topic of perception and it’s effect on laws and your life?

[Jchambers2120]

Well, this morning all of the turnstiles at my station said "no cards". The station agent buzzed everybody in. Good thing this happened during the am rush. (sarcasm) 

[Dave2836]

Going off topic... the law is decided in the best interest of the community, through proposals, voting, and pushing a bill through the legislative branch.  Laws do conform to the current sociological environment, a good example would be the legalization of Marijuana in Colorado.

Although Marijuana and its paraphernalia is still illegal on a Federal level, the State of Colorado made it LEGAL within its borders.  However there had to be strict control on the use of marijuana, such as operating a motorvehicle or heavy machinery under the influence carries heavy penalty of losing the Motorvehicle License for 1 year, and in Colorado driving is a neccesity.

Now since marijuana is legal, that DOES NOT absolve the perpetrators who sold and abused marijuana while it was ILLEGAL of their crimes.  They made a choice and have to learn from the consequences.

In NYC, especially Kings County, marijuana is an interesting topic.  While it is still illegal in the confines of NYC, it is only a misdemeanor charge and usually thrown out in the court except when accompanied by an unusual circumstance:

1) was there an altercation between the perpetrator and officer?

2) Did the perpetrator have more than 25 grams of marijuana and/or mixtures?

3) Did the perpetrator possess a jeweler's scale in addition to the marijuana?

4) where was the marijuana found in relation to any other people involved?

5) Was any one exposed to danger when the marijuana was found?

Example:  You are driving your car, your toddlers are in the back seat.  You pick me up in your car, and I am carrying marijuana, not a lot, just 3 grams, enough for one smoke.  We get stopped at an intersection, and the police ask us to get out of the car.  

Scenario 1-they find marijuana on my person and write me a violation.  End of story. 

Scenario 2- my marijuana falls out of my pocket and into the car as we get out, we are both charged with endangering the welfare of the toddlers, go to jail and make new friends.

There are more scenarios that can play out but they are case specific and all depends and what the DA wants at the time.  Society is fluid, and the District Attorney, Police Officers, and everyone in between are aware of this, and use interpretation to enforce the safety of life and property that best serves the community.  The Law is the Law, and it is written as expressed, however there are some parts which are written as implied and that's where the people involved can make judgement calls based on situaltional awareness and discretion.

[bobtehpanda]

8 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

You have to be kidding me. A BS from UC Cal and a fellowship at Stanford seems I’ve been in the wrong places picking the wrong minds fifth grade huh? Go figure I’ll keep that in mind.I understand the Republic fairly well  or at least I thought I did. The internet generation the Worlds  knowledge at your fingertips great time to be alive lucky you. Since you completely missed the mark my comment comes from the point of humans inability to be impartial and the fact that the people that as you eloquently stated we vote in operate on perceived elements and not logic and facts. The law is based on someone perceived perception a person made it up. My question who makes the law? Who can change the law.  18th century  you’re proving my point here! 1776? 2017? 1776?Umm  Shouldn’t the law be a bit more dynamic  and based on current realities?   The concepts of right and wrong even the law is based on human perception a person experience, interests and feeling the human element. I don’t feel great about that. What say you on topic of perception and it’s effect on laws and your life?

The law is dynamic; we base it all on previous precedent. The law is conservative because it should be; there's no good reason for legal standards to change drastically in the span of a few years. More importantly, there's no alternative. You can't decide law based on rigid rules, because you can't possibly describe every single possible scenario in a set of rigid rules, and that's what discretion is for.

[RailRunRob]

This honestly could go on and on. Bottom line the law is perception and who has the money and power to back their POV. Sure law is needed to keep the world spinning and the status Quo going. Laws and beliefs in freedom,the American dream, The hope that tomorrow is better then today how else do you keep a nation of 320 million in tact? Im not arguing that. Dynamic umm sure okay but rest asure the law prioritizes what's beneficial to certain interests point in case marijuana as someone stated.  I have some college buddies that do alittle farming up in the Sierra Nevada I even tried to get in on something up there legal of course. Dynamic? Sure but when you have Companies like Philip Morris buying up every plot of land and padding pockets Bills become law abit quicker and guess what afew peoples perspective and perceptions changes the masses and effects millions of lives in the process. Meanwhile we have Regan era laws still in place for Cyber security might as well be 1776. Priority isn't there Dynamic? Adaptive? not so much.  The law Is lumbering and slow But the world is changing faster and faster.Did you say change in a span of afew years? Try decade's a Century maybe? There's a level your missing here but then again maybe your not this what keep's the world spinning the believe that this is a balanced and fair process. That Perception and influence isnt what get a good amount of law's passed or revoked. Or full circle that a person given the duty to uphold the law can actually do it unbiased without emotion or preconcepted notions. It's just one of those things... meh the Law works most of the time oh well. (Shurgs) There's no alternative? There's always an alternative or ways to improve.After all someone made these laws in the 1st place? Certainly not the law nature we're referring to. So I have to disagree with you there. Your in a period of being able to process more information than anytime in Human history and that's only going to Increase exponentially in the upcoming Decades and centuries. And Law will adapt new methods. It'll have to maybe the human element will be removed altogether? Should we start bowing to our new AI overlords?

[itmaybeokay]

On 10/17/2017 at 12:27 AM, Dave2836 said:

 

 

http://web.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm

Section 1050.4

If the vending machine is broken, if the booth computer is down, if the turnstyle is malfunctioning or took a fare, the rule says in order to legally gain entry into the system the fare MUST be paid.  

At this point two crimes have been commited, criminal tresspass in the third degree and theft of service.  If you classify the station as a building (any structure), the charge upgrades to burglary in the 3rd degree.  So you just saw how fast it can escalate from a stern warning, to  $100 ticket, to 3 months in jail, to a class d felony.

Any lawyers here wish to offer free advice?

Sure, i'm not a lawyer but I play one in real life so here goes: 

Theft of service is a bogus charge since he never actually got on the train. "I hopped the turnstile because I lost my wallet and I thought I dropped it in the station." 

Quote

 

NY Penal Code S 165.15 Theft of services.

3. With intent to obtain railroad, subway, bus, air, taxi or any other public transportation service without payment of the lawful charge therefor, or to avoid payment of the lawful charge for such transportation service which has been rendered to him, he obtains or attempts to obtain such service or avoids or attempts to avoid payment therefor by force, intimidation, stealth, deception or mechanical tampering, or by unjustifiable failure or refusal to pay; or

 

The statute requires that the state demonstrate *intent* beyond a reasonable doubt. There's enough doubt to drive a truck through. 

Similar story with Burg 3rd - you'd have to demonstrate he entered the "building" with the intent to commit a crime there. 

Even the trespassing charge: the article indicates *criminal* trespass - I'm not going to copy and paste the whole statute, but to elevate the charge from trespass (violation) to criminal trespass, you'd either have to argue that 

1) (g ) where the property consists of a right-of-way or yard of a railroad or rapid transit railroad which has been designated and conspicuously posted as a no-trespass railroad zone.

Which, - no it's a goddamn station - or

2) (a ) which is fenced or otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders

That second one is very dicey. Any lawyer worth his retainer is going to cogently argue that the fare control is not designed to exclude intruders, it's designed to exclude those who have not paid their fare. As there is an administrative code separately detailing the penalties for fare evasion, the trespass charge is invalid. 

 

(I am not a lawyer and none of this is legal advice)

 

[bobtehpanda]

23 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

This honestly could go on and on. Bottom line the law is perception and who has the money and power to back their POV. Sure law is needed to keep the world spinning and the status Quo going. Laws and beliefs in freedom,the American dream, The hope that tomorrow is better then today how else do you keep a nation of 320 million in tact? Im not arguing that. Dynamic umm sure okay but rest asure the law prioritizes what's beneficial to certain interests point in case marijuana as someone stated.  I have some college buddies that do alittle farming up in the Sierra Nevada I even tried to get in on something up there legal of course. Dynamic? Sure but when you have Companies like Philip Morris buying up every plot of land and padding pockets Bills become law abit quicker and guess what afew peoples perspective and perceptions changes the masses and effects millions of lives in the process. Meanwhile we have Regan era laws still in place for Cyber security might as well be 1776. Priority isn't there Dynamic? Adaptive? not so much.  The law Is lumbering and slow But the world is changing faster and faster.Did you say change in a span of afew years? Try decade's a Century maybe? There's a level your missing here but then again maybe your not this what keep's the world spinning the believe that this is a balanced and fair process. That Perception and influence isnt what get a good amount of law's passed or revoked. Or full circle that a person given the duty to uphold the law can actually do it unbiased without emotion or preconcepted notions. It's just one of those things... meh the Law works most of the time oh well. (Shurgs) There's no alternative? There's always an alternative or ways to improve.After all someone made these laws in the 1st place? Certainly not the law nature we're referring to. So I have to disagree with you there. Your in a period of being able to process more information than anytime in Human history and that's only going to Increase exponentially in the upcoming Decades and centuries. And Law will adapt new methods. It'll have to maybe the human element will be removed altogether? Should we start bowing to our new AI overlords?

The AI Revolution is a bunch of bollocks. You still need humans to verify that the AI is actually doing things correctly, otherwise you wind up with crap like crime prediction algorithms flagging stock photos of black people from the Internet. And I say this as someone who works in tech.

[RailRunRob]

10 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

The AI Revolution is a bunch of bollocks. You still need humans to verify that the AI is actually doing things correctly, otherwise you wind up with crap like crime prediction algorithms flagging stock photos of black people from the Internet. And I say this as someone who works in tech.

1

Stop living in the now.. You're reaching.  Help shape the future you have this knowledge for what? Most of these stats and numbers are out there that means what anyone can do the research nowadays 6-12 months you can be fairly knowledgeable on all matters transport around these parts the internet is a powerful thing when you know how to ask the right questions. It's what do with the knowledge that matters most.  Move or be moved man i'm at these Companies Facebook, Uber in these hackathons I see the technology I see the rapid pace of innovation im almost 20 years in Ive seen chips go from 45 Microns to a single digit Nanometer process forward forward forward.  AI and Biotech being the top two of the bunch currently. You reading and sending articles isn't going to stop the forward march. AI is going to happen it's Inevitable What's important is that people setting the framework and architecture for AI are a diverse group of guys and gals that's how you get around an issue like that! 20,30,50 Years from now there's going to new tools that definitely take the amount of human hands out of the verification process. And it's only going to get better with time as with any other technology that came before.  Again what get's measured get's accomplished.  The train is coming there may be a few delays but it's coming and it's not going to stop for you or me. If you don't want to get hit or pushed out of the way. Best device I got was make sure you're at that the controls.  What are we doing to try help shape these new standards or at least what do we need to do to get to the point were we can.  Set your mind to 2060 or 2075 you don't think AI is going to have a major role?

[CenSin]

On 10/19/2017 at 9:31 AM, RailRunRob said:

Stop living in the now.. You're reaching.  Help shape the future you have this knowledge for what? Most of these stats and numbers are out there that means what anyone can do the research nowadays 6-12 months you can be fairly knowledgeable on all matters transport around these parts the internet is a powerful thing when you know how to ask the right questions. It's what do with the knowledge that matters most.  Move or be moved man i'm at these Companies Facebook, Uber in these hackathons I see the technology I see the rapid pace of innovation im almost 20 years in Ive seen chips go from 45 Microns to a single digit Nanometer process forward forward forward.  AI and Biotech being the top two of the bunch currently. You reading and sending articles isn't going to stop the forward march. AI is going to happen it's Inevitable What's important is that people setting the framework and architecture for AI are a diverse group of guys and gals that's how you get around an issue like that! 20,30,50 Years from now there's going to new tools that definitely take the amount of human hands out of the verification process. And it's only going to get better with time as with any other technology that came before.  Again what get's measured get's accomplished.  The train is coming there may be a few delays but it's coming and it's not going to stop for you or me. If you don't want to get hit or pushed out of the way. Best device I got was make sure you're at that the controls.  What are we doing to try help shape these new standards or at least what do we need to do to get to the point were we can.  Set your mind to 2060 or 2075 you don't think AI is going to have a major role?

I should add that India has made a move to ban self-driving cars using excuses like immature technology, but these anti-AI stances are just a way to protect jobs. Remember the horse and buggy industry? That got demolished by the automobile industry. Now taxis and trucking, and public transportation is about to be disrupted just the same. I’ve got advice for those guys… learn another trade while the writing on the wall is still drying. discourage your kids from studying for obsolete jobs.

[CenSin]

On 10/18/2017 at 10:52 PM, bobtehpanda said:

The AI Revolution is a bunch of bollocks. You still need humans to verify that the AI is actually doing things correctly, otherwise you wind up with crap like crime prediction algorithms flagging stock photos of black people from the Internet. And I say this as someone who works in tech.

Relevant:

 

AI is hard to debug because it’s like trying to figure out the human mind. You know what the inputs are and you see some of the output, but everything in between is just mush.

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, CenSin said:

I should add that India has made a move to ban self-driving cars using excuses like immature technology, but these anti-AI stances are just a way to protect jobs. Remember the horse and buggy industry? That got demolished by the automobile industry. Now taxis and trucking, and public transportation is about to be disrupted just the same. I’ve got advice for those guys… learn another trade while the writing on the wall is still drying. discourage your kids from studying for obsolete jobs.

Anything repetitive is going to be replaced by A.I , accountants even lawyers possibly. Interpretation of the law will be affected. Analyzing Someone's heart rate,CO2 output, perspiration, voice analysis and even eye and body movements in real-time. There may be some setbacks along the way but the ball is already in motions.  Entrepreneurship and Industries that rely on the human experience will be in demand.. Artist's, Agriculture, UX, design, engineers, scientist ect.. The world will and must move forward.

[CenSin]

1 hour ago, RailRunRob said:

Anything repetitive is going to be replaced by A.I , accountants even lawyers possibly. Interpretation of the law will be affected. Analyzing Someone's heart rate,CO2 output, perspiration, voice analysis and even eye and body movements in real-time. There may be some setbacks along the way but the ball is already in motions.  Entrepreneurship and Industries that rely on the human experience will be in demand.. Artist's, Agriculture, UX, design, engineers, scientist ect.. The world will and must move forward.

If there is a race to the top with AI, methinks China will win. The Europe and the US are saddled by ethics that prevent them from doing certain kinds of research. The US is very much in a state where lawsuits and patent disputes stifle innovations.

[RailRunRob]

4 minutes ago, CenSin said:

If there is a race to the top with AI, methinks China will win. The Europe and the US are saddled by ethics that prevent them from doing certain kinds of research. The US is very much in a state where lawsuits and patent disputes stifle innovations.

The last edge the US is going to have is the internet boom.  Biotech, A.I even the subfields like A/R and V/R are going to come from other places. To much talking and over-evaluation in this country. All the folks talking are going have to put or shut up at some point. The new world currency is intellect! Let's see what 20 years of option's yields in this country. All that talk has to translate into the physical world we can't keep it up forever.

[bobtehpanda]

As a counterpoint, it took us 60 years to get an algorithm that could tell us if a picture had a cat in it or not. AI is only good for solutions to well-defined problems that have good data, which stuff like law is not, since everything in law is context-dependent, especially since many cases get retroactively appealed based on new evidence that comes to light years after they are tried.

[RailRunRob]

8 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

As a counterpoint, it took us 60 years to get an algorithm that could tell us if a picture had a cat in it or not. AI is only good for solutions to well-defined problems that have good data, which stuff like law is not, since everything in law is context-dependent, especially since many cases get retroactively appealed based on new evidence that comes to light years after they are tried.

And it took thousand's of years to go from bronze to steel swords. The world is accelerating modern computing is fueling this. Distributive computing, the cloud upcoming breakthru's in quantum computing!!  I don't have to look any further than my alma amata the work being done at Berkeley in this field is mind-blowing. Being able to process information in real-time being able to process more about an environment beyond our standard perspectives.  AI is more than a talking computer it's about enhancing our understanding of what the truth is as well.  Instead of just looking at the videotape I'll have vitals and other metrics processed as well way more complete picture. Again I'm out in the field it's coming. Ready yourself if defiantly won't take 60 years this go around. 

[CenSin]

14 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

As a counterpoint, it took us 60 years to get an algorithm that could tell us if a picture had a cat in it or not. AI is only good for solutions to well-defined problems that have good data, which stuff like law is not, since everything in law is context-dependent, especially since many cases get retroactively appealed based on new evidence that comes to light years after they are tried.

Perhaps 60 years ago, there wasn’t sufficient processing power. Processing power has been doubling every 18 months and now specialized chips have been developed that mimic the brain. Should those chips have a similar growth rate, they will be able to do a lot of thinking work that humans currently do in a few decades.

[bobtehpanda]

8 hours ago, CenSin said:

Perhaps 60 years ago, there wasn’t sufficient processing power. Processing power has been doubling every 18 months and now specialized chips have been developed that mimic the brain. Should those chips have a similar growth rate, they will be able to do a lot of thinking work that humans currently do in a few decades.

The major growth in AI has not come from the speed of individual chips, but from the cloud. There hasn't been any actual improvement in the underlying techniques, we're just throwing lots of computers at the problem. This works for your friendly shopping assistant sitting inside your house connected to the wi-fi, but not so much for the car weaving through tunnels and bridges in the backwoods that don't even have 2G connections. 

As far as Moore's law, that's basically dead, because we've now made transistors so small that quantum mechanics starts doing funky stuff to the signals.

[CenSin]

4 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

The major growth in AI has not come from the speed of individual chips, but from the cloud. There hasn't been any actual improvement in the underlying techniques, we're just throwing lots of computers at the problem. This works for your friendly shopping assistant sitting inside your house connected to the wi-fi, but not so much for the car weaving through tunnels and bridges in the backwoods that don't even have 2G connections. 

As far as Moore's law, that's basically dead, because we've now made transistors so small that quantum mechanics starts doing funky stuff to the signals.

You missed the part about neural network computing.

[RailRunRob]

5 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

The major growth in AI has not come from the speed of individual chips, but from the cloud. There hasn't been any actual improvement in the underlying techniques, we're just throwing lots of computers at the problem. This works for your friendly shopping assistant sitting inside your house connected to the wi-fi, but not so much for the car weaving through tunnels and bridges in the backwoods that don't even have 2G connections. 

As far as Moore's law, that's basically dead, because we've now made transistors so small that quantum mechanics starts doing funky stuff to the signals.

 

Take a look at the new 5G frameworks, Mesh technologies will take care a lot of that over the next decade.