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R44 5278

Old Photos on the DL&W M&E/Gladstone Branch From Thomas Taber Part II

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Berkeley Heights:

berkeleyheightsf.jpg

Bernardsville:

bernardsville.jpg

Basking Ridge:

56296262.jpg

*My current hometown, though I ride from Lyons

Far Hills:

farhills.jpg

Hoboken:

hoboken.jpg

*Look on the middle left and you'll see the Holland Tunnel Exit

Lake Hopatcong:

lakehopatcong.jpg

"Modern" Morristown:

modernmorristown.jpg

New Providence:

newprovidence.jpg

"Old" Morris Plains:

oldmorrisplains.jpg

*The grade crossing presently doesn't exist

Old Newark Draw Bridge:

oldnewarkdraw.jpg

*The current drawbridge is just north of this one

Peapack:

peapack.jpg

Roseville Tower:

rosevilletower.jpg

*Split from M&E and Montclair Branch (Now Montclair-Boonton Line)

Stirling:

stirling.jpg

West End Interlocking:

westend.jpg

 

 

 

Work Cited:

Taber, Thomas, and Thomas Taber III. The Delaware Lackawanna & Western Railroad In The Twentieth Century. Volume Two. Muncy, Pennsylvania: Thomas Taber III, 1981. Print.

*I own none of these photos. All photos belong to Thomas Taber and Thomas Taber III

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Thanks Everyone! I was surprised at first glance that Pavonia-Newport, Hoboken, Liberty State Park, and Exchange Place all used to be massive railroad yards. Now the area is just skyscrapers with only Hoboken and the Lackawanna Freight Terminal still standing, but disconnected from the line.

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Its sad to think Hoboken will be even more altered when they put the buildings in over one of the yards if all goes according to plan(hoping it won't!).

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Great Job Metsfan! You can even see the drawbridges and Meadowlands to the west! It seems that the NJTP wasn't completed yet. Do you have a date for the photo?

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No, but judging from the state of the yards, the tower still being there & the catenary structures anywhere between 1930 to mid 50's. The number of steam locos though suggests early 40's.

 

- A

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It's really weird how DL&W set up catenary at Hoboken, but most of their trains are not electric. Clearly, DL&W didn't convert immediately from Steam to Electric like PRR during that time period. Even today, most of the trains entering/leaving Hoboken are not electrics and ALP-44/ALP46 hauled trains rarely go there. I really thought that DL&W electrifying their lines was a waste. Even NJT nowdays still operate numerous diesel trains on the M&E and Montclair-Boonton Lines to Hoboken when they have catenary on those lines. Not to mention, NJT even upgraded the Hoboken division catenary to 25kv60Hz like that of high speed railways elsewhere in the world. What a waste of gas!

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It means trains can terminate at hoboken if something happens and NYP access is cut off.

 

Plus, it allows for future electric expansion for service to/from hoboken.

 

Also remember, that a few :njc: trains leave from hoboken each day. I get to see them. They are all most always a cat, but they are sometimes something else, but always diesel.

 

If (MTA) paid for it you could electrify :pvl:, but since they are broke any such project if undertaken would have heavy (NJT) subsidy with the rest being federal and maybe some freight company involvement, because i believe most of it is owned by freight railroad(s).

 

Bay head trains have to be diesel because the wires end after long branch. Till the current old fleet is about to be disposed there will not be much in the way of prioritizing putting wire up to bay head.

 

It's true (NJT) could save millions by putting wire on some lines, even a "short stretch" like long branch to bay head. The problem is that while it could save millions, the entire diesel funds for a year would not be enough to pay for those additions, and at the same time till its operational you still need the diesel locos. I've stated in the past that doing it in segments/stages would be a really good way to go.

 

That all being said, the PL42AC fleet is very fuel efficient compared especially with the older 2 stroke locos, and the ALP-45dp willl be even better.

 

For the time being having diesel makes sense. If somehow (NJT) gets 2 billion to electrify its entire system, then maybe relegate diesel to emergency power outage situations, and work trains, sell the rest to toher transit agencies. :cool:

 

- A

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They should definitely electrify the Lackawanna Cutoff and use the ALP-45s on direct trains from Bay Head to NY, or Raritan to NY instead. I bet that the Lackawanna Cutoff was and will be the busiest of all the projects proposed by NJT and electrifying the line would definitely increase efficiency from NY to Scranton. Instead of the planned 79 mph max speed, trains should go up to 110 mph especially with the 25kv60Hz catenary.

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If you have not figured out by now the reason NJT is buying these dualmodes is to not have to electrify future extensions, Long Branch to Bay Head was not done because if electrification was done of the coastline past Long Branch it would have ended at Asbury Park with the rest to Bay Head being abandoned.

 

The D&LW electrified for a few reasons one being complaints in Hoboken. In the 30's they had a dualmode diesel and electric to work Hoboken. The electrification was also done for suburban commuter services since it was pretty efficient.

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I wish the bill & ted phone booths were real, i'd bring some people back & see what they have to say. :cool:

 

I think the purpose of a lot of the stuff that was done back then was lost in the 25 years that i call the "domino quarter", where one fell after another till nothing was really left but conrail and amtrak. For amtrak & all transit to equal the number of trains per day and stations served, with the options available then such as pullman served cars etc, the combined budget would have to be about 200 billion a year today. Puts things a bit more in perspective.

 

I think that a merger of EL, CNJ, and C&A etc would have made more sense than creating penn central. You could have had a new england railroad, a mid-atlantic railroad, a southeast railroad, a central railroad, a southwest railroad, and a northern railroad.

 

You see the photos there, imagine if you could be on a train to those stations vs only read about them. :P

 

- A

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The merging of Penn Central was really ridiculous. PRR was ahead of the game, while NY Central was sinking down rock bottom. PRR decided to merge simply b/c they were afraid that they would lose it all in the future. As with DL&W and Erie, it was the merging that brought down the service on the Lackawanna Cutoff. Since Erie almost never maintains its lines and stations, the Lackawanna Cutoff went for a decay in all aspects. Not to mention, Erie abandoned the Pavonia Terminal in favor of Hoboken simply b/c it wasn't structurally maintained and the Bergen Arches were consequently wasted.

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Yea, they should have at least maintained a freight yard there.

 

So what next i wonder. I hope they don't build over that nice open plaza with the bus terminal at hoboken.

 

Thankfully they are not allowed to touch the train terminal in any way shape or form as it has been put on the national register of historic places and for NJ as well.

 

I wonder when the ferry slips will be put back into service and people don't have to use that temp setup they have going near the HBLR part.

 

I like the tower, and i hope to soon get some photos of it lit at night. DL&W is my second favorite RR after PRR, 3rd has to be the milwaukee road, and 4th is the CRRNJ. 5th is Reading. Interestingly enough all of these roads had commonalities and similar panicked struggles towards the end.

 

Also similar is the possibility of bringing some stretches of these roads back to life. :tup:

 

- A

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What happened was after WWII the railroads got screwed over. It was kind of like thanks for helping the country by moving supplies and going above and beyond now were going to forget about you. If RR infrastructure after WWII was rebuilt or improved instead of going nuts with the interstate system, railroads like the PRR and NYC may still be around instead of the mergers like CSX and NS. However many of these systems would have been revised with many areas of duplicate trackage right being taken away. Thats what Conrail did so in the end it all worked out. Do I believe the routes deleted were the right ones not necessarily, but its what was done and luckily for the most part many that were deleted have some how remained untouched, which I think was purposely done.

 

Just my thoughts.

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Yea, i think there has always been someone in there whispering and such keeping options open or the future.

 

I believe some of these same people now work for (NJT) and :septa: in our area.

 

I mean we as the end customer are more involved and informed than most, but every single (NJT) and :septa: employee i've ever talked to with ideas about changes etc, have all agreed about things like not immediately building over the de-activated tracks and where they think a station should be on an active line etc.

 

In reality they have GENIUSES working for them. People who really know what the heck they are doing. Sadly these days those folks are mixed with "eh its just a job" employees. Back in the day you'd be 100% proud to work the rails. As you said, this country won the war because of 2 bits of metal and some wood and stuff.

 

These geniuses & the crews that do the day to day end work to me are unsung heros, literally chugging along to slowly drag & wrestle those 2 bits of metal into the 21st century.

 

Hoboken terminal & related yards is a perfect example of what is going on in the world of pax rail in the usa. You have some really beautiful architecture, some really brilliant and innovative design, but it's in desperate need of rebuilding and repair, and some historical type restorations.

 

- A

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What happened was after WWII the railroads got screwed over. It was kind of like thanks for helping the country by moving supplies and going above and beyond now were going to forget about you. If RR infrastructure after WWII was rebuilt or improved instead of going nuts with the interstate system, railroads like the PRR and NYC may still be around instead of the mergers like CSX and NS. However many of these systems would have been revised with many areas of duplicate trackage right being taken away. Thats what Conrail did so in the end it all worked out. Do I believe the routes deleted were the right ones not necessarily, but its what was done and luckily for the most part many that were deleted have some how remained untouched, which I think was purposely done.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

You're absolutely correct! I guess back then, nobody cared about pollution as long as there's a faster way of transportation.

 

Even if Conrail abandoned the "obsolete" lines, they should've at least left a section of rail there like the Lackwanna Cutoff until the mid 80s so there won't be a hassle on future plans to revive those lines with the tracks still in place.

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Thankfully the cutoff is otherwise intact, just need new tracks. Same for WTL, still active but needing CWR for pax.

 

- A

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The viaduct across the delaware needs an internal and external cleaning very badly. Restoration of that structure would probably take 2-3 years.

 

- A

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Everything would obviously be rebuilt or built new when the lines come back. The WTL never lost service so I don't know how that relates, yes it lost passenger service but it has not been OOS like the cutoff. If PAX service os restored to the WTL it will be using extra sidings in the beginning along with maybe a second track added.

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If service is restored (:septa:) up that old reading line they would run diesel locos with push/pull or DMU (not light rail). I saw in one of the :septa: budgets electrification all the way up to allentown, which included the viaduct and a 2 track yard......

 

I think this was for the 1984 budget, but i'm not sure it was just some random page i found while looking for more juicy info.

 

I think i need to bookmark these pages when i find them. :cool:

 

- A

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The viaduct across the delaware needs an internal and external cleaning very badly. Restoration of that structure would probably take 2-3 years.

 

- A

 

Paulinskill Viaduct needs restoration as well. I heard that some parts are starting to crack from the extensive vandalism and erosion over the years. Those Satanic Cults seriously need to find another place to do their sacrifices.

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