zacster

It would not make sense to put them on a line that won't be getting CBTC. But since when does the MTA make any sense? As I said, it is a POSSIBILITY, but unlikely for the reason I gave. It isn't like they've never changed direction. Those 11 sets of R32s were supposed to be the spares, or to allow R46s to be spares or serviced. They made do without them so how can you say they wouldn't have been enough? Zero R32s turned out to be enough.

In the MTA EVERYTHING costs money. They need storage space, security, maintenance, inspection, occasional operation. It all adds up, and by MTA math.

The 11 R32 trains were supposed to be the spare factor for both CI and Pitkin. When those are replaced with R211s, there should already be enough to move to CI if needed. And if they were needed at this point they probably would have been moved already, so my guess is they weren't really needed. This gets to why they retired the 11 R32 trains in the first place. Those 11 trains are "nice to have" but aren't truly needed. Things that are "nice to have" still cost money. Even when the R211s were pulled from service they had enough cars, just barely.

It costs money though to store the cars if they don't need them. It'll be a lot of extra cars hanging around.

In order for them to retire the R46s from the NQW they are going to have to replace the R68s with NTTs on the B/D. I can't predict which will end up on B/D. The other possibility is that they put R211s on the NQW to directly replace the R46s, but just like with the R160s, they'll end up being swapped out again so that 6th Ave can go CBTC.

Back in 1969 we had Standards, R1/9s, R10, R11, R16, R27/30, R32, R38, R40S, R40M, R42 and the Q cars all in service at the same time. That was diversity. On the A division we had R12/14, R15, R17, R21/22, R26/28/29/33/36, and the R33/36 WF cars. And they were all in mixed sets.

When the 11th R211 train goes into service, that'll mean they are whole again with spares, and can start retiring, and since these cars are not being used anyway they may be the first to go.

I saw an R32 set on the track that parallels 37th St almost out to Ft Hamilton Pkwy the other day. The last time I saw a train there it was an R27 set heading to the scrap heap. There are others scattered around 38th st yard, but they are hard to see from a moving car because of the kind of fence it is. There are R42s there too.

And there are another 3 new sets on the property that are being prepped with more on the way. Only a matter of time before the R46s start to go.

Too much crossing over to work even on a weekend. If anything just send it to Chambers on the weekend so riders can get the Canal St transfer.

And I can remember when the CC had its own dilapidated fleet of R4s that only ran in rush hours. It wasn't even shared with the D from Concourse. They must've just made on trip from BPB to Chambers and then back, and that was all they could handle. It's come a long way, although those R46s are even older now than the R4s were back then.

Does CBTC on the 7 allow the TOMC to run? Even on the express? It still has to run the section from 34th to QBP.

What time of day do these deliveries happen? I'd go check it out if it is during the daytime and combine it with a visit to Industry City, MicroCenter and Home Depot. I'm not a Costco member so that's out.

The R211 is getting easy to catch. When it comes down to it, there aren't all that many in-service car types anymore. R46, R68, R143, R160, R179, R211 on the B division and R62, R142, and R188 on the A division. The time with the most variation was late 60s/early 70s when the original equipment was being replaced and every order was different from the last. Now they order more cars that are all the same. There are close to 1700 R160s and they all are the same. The R143 and R179 are so similar to them that most people don't know the difference.

The only lines that are 8 car are the J/M/L/Z and those are all out of ENY. They won't be going to Concourse or CI. Maybe they'll make the G 8 car and use them as a dedicated fleet there. I don't know how many trainsets they need vs. what is available. I somehow don't think it'll be enough.

I thought it was 10 cars every other week. That always seemed slow given how many are sitting in Lincoln.

Your math basically agrees with what I was thinking, except you add spares to account for the age of the cars. And it is funny how your count of needed cars comes up to a max of 88 = 11 trains = 11 sets of retired R32s. They already have that many R211s running so there is no real reason to wait for the M to be back, and by that time there will be even more R211s. The only thing I think may be wrong is that the 8 full trains from the G will send some back to Concourse, with the rest in rotation for N/Q/W. There will always be a few on the Q. When they start putting the R211 on 6th Ave for CBTC, the R68s will displace the R46 on N/Q/W completely, but that'll be a while.

By the time they are ready to decide on option 2, they'll know if they work or not. Those cars will have been in service for a year or two. They'll know what the problems are, if any. They'll tweak the design, make it possible to climb down to reset a brake, put smoke detectors in, make it possible to isolate the cars from each other, anything else that's necessary. Or maybe they'll change some byzantine rule that hasn't been needed for 100 years but is still on the books that these cars don't follow.

The 30 day test only makes sense as a precursor to the release of the production order. There is no production order of the R211T. Unfortunately they botched the 30 day test of the R211A by not having a true production car being tested. Maybe they'd have caught the gear box issue if they had.

What I'm thinking is that the 11 R32 trains were the spares for both CI and Pitkin, and with the R211s they have now they've been replaced, and that CI should have gotten some already. As far as I know though they haven't transferred anything yet. If a bunch of trains started to crap out from CI I'm sure the call would go out to bring some over since they don't need them at Pitkin. I don't think they would get any spares from Concourse. If anything, they'd return some R68s to Concourse when they get more R46s. I guess that would mean even fewer R68s on the N/Q/W.

There are enough R211s now to replace the R32s in storage already, and those R32s were the spare factor even though they never ran again. Maybe they'll get a few more 211s in but I think they are going to start transferring the R46 sooner rather than later. By May/June there could be a lot more R211s and I wouldn't be surprised either if the C started getting R211As in addition to the 2 R211Ts already assigned and all of the 4 car R179s go to ENY along with the borrowed R160s.

With all of the R211s available right now, 11 sets of R211a and 2 sets of R211T, some still undergoing testing, they probably don't need the AA sets. I'd be surprised if they don't start moving the R46s around to storage until they are finally retired. There isn't infinite space at Pitkin. It will still be a long time until cars start shifting around other than R211s replacing R46s on the A and C.

Part of the idea of the Q local overnight is that you weren't stuck waiting at the local station while a Q express zipped by, and then have to wait 20 minutes for the next Q. It is only 5 extra stops. Also the transfer at Canal if you get on at Prince or 8th is a PITA. And it goes the same for northbound as southbound. It is like the old QB service before Chrystie.

I can see someone at the head of the MTA go ballistic on whoever decided the open gangway cars can't go express. They spend time and money on this, show it to the public as the future, and then have some operations people that didn't like them sabotage the program. It's already an embarrassment in the news.

You don't think a few reporters know to read this board, Subchat, Reddit, etc...?