subwaycommuter1983

17 minutes ago, Chris89292 said:

Are we getting one set in service per month or 2?

We are supposed to get at least 2 per month. The problem is that crews are refusing to get qualified to operate the r211's.

They refuse to understand that the cameras onboard the trains are for their safety as well as for the safety of the passengers.

Wherever you work, in any field (retail, education, healthcare, food service, etc), you are going to be surrounded by cameras. If people don't like the cameras, then they are going to have a hard time staying in the workforce.

9 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Also The R211T's (are rumored) to be only on the Rockaway park Shuttle due to the union not wanting them on the road due to the lack of of going in between cars to investigate a BIE (if it goes into a no clearance area when the Train goes BIE, The T/O can't go in between cars to investigate) 

 

 

If these rumors turn out to be true, then that means that option order 2 of r211's, r262's, r268's and other future car orders will most likely consist of standard trains.

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 That is not the reason why they refuse to get qualified on the R211's. It's mainly because of the cameras in the cabs. A good chunk of NYCT workers do not like the old equipment. 

If they're complying with their job duties, then they should have nothing to worry about in regards to cameras.

I'm assuming that all  cameras on the r211's will be used to keep every one safe including crews.

Subway cars are target for conquering, vandalism, crime and terrorism.

Wherever people work (whether it's a school, a hospital, a restaurant, etc), there are going to be surrounded by cameras everywhere in the workplace.

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Do you work for the NYCT? No, so you shouldn't be telling people with 20+ years in the field why they refuse to understand why they don't like operating new stuff.

FYI!!! Trains don't drive by themselves. 

Do you think subway riders are going to be happy about train crews refusing to operate new subway cars??

27 minutes ago, djtoro7 said:

2 more trains should be entering into service this month but my guess is there are still not enough crews qualified to operate them so they might be on hold until further notice.

I guess the MTA is gonna have to get crews from other lines (and are open minded) to operate the r211's, while those crews who refuse to get qualified should be sent to operate the NQW trains.

Why is it so hard for train crews and rail fans to understand that old subway cars are not going to last forever??

As for the cameras, it's for their own safety and if they are doing what they suppose to be doing, then they should not be worried about the cameras.

12 hours ago, Chris89292 said:

Great, now these trains will be delayed for another 5 months for wrap repairs 🤦‍♂️ what’s with people tagging trains, can’t they have anything better to do, there should be an FBI investigation and arrest the person for damage of private property and trespassing 

There needs to be more vigilance in subway yards. It is a huge safety hazard for someone to trespass a subway yard for whatever reason. God forbid someone could very easily trespass a subway yard to put bombs on trains.

The MTA and NYPD need to stop this before it's too late.

33 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

I rode the R211 from 207th to far rock today (the 1st set) and it's starting to buck already (not surprising) It's not a bad train but the R179s are way way way better in terms of ride quality and smoothness.  I wish they made more of them in 10 car sets because they are nice on the . I might have bashed them in the past but after riding one on the on the way back up. I prefer the R179 over the R211. I just hope that rumor isn't true of them leaving the line because they are the best cars for the . I'm not saying the r211s are a bad train but they are alright. The r179s are even smoother than the R142s.

It just a rumor. The 10 car r179's will stay on the A.

It doesn't make sense to remove the r179's from the A unless the MTA is planning to put them on the C once the 1st option order is delivered and the C is already 100% full length.

Right now, the A really needs to stay (at least with the base order) a mixed fleet of r179's/r211's.

2 hours ago, Reptile said:

Sorry for more fleet swap talk but the have 20 trains in their rolling stock according to Wikipedia. 11 are R160, 9 are R179. The runs 9 R179 trains and there's about 23 in total (spares) so if the MTA makes the full length with R211s and pushes its 4-car R179 sets to the will that allow the line to run entirely R179 or will they run a couple R160s so they can have spare R179s, just going by the way the MTA allocates trains in general?

The base order has enough r211's to displace the r46's off the A/C. The 8 car r179's will most likely stay on the C until option order 1.

Keep in mind that there is a possibility that the C may temporarily get the rest of the 8 car r179's from ENY due to work on 63rd St, which will cause a service reduction on the M.

1 hour ago, Chris89292 said:

It’s not just rail fans complaining, it’s also average citizens, I don’t blame them tho, if they were to remove the new trains from my home line, I would be mad too, all those trains replacements in the years 2000-2019 weren’t worth it, if they’ll just shift around subway cars, replacing the new with the old, the nyc subway system is indeed strange when it comes to fleet replacements or swaps, anyone outside New York will see this weird as well, I don’t see BART do this, or CTA

That's because other cities in the US have smaller systems and those systems are not as old as NYC.

AFAIK I didn't hear any complaints from rail fans when the r142As were removed from the #6 train in exchange for the r62's. 

Oh wait, the #6 doesn't go to Astoria. That answered my question.

3 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

How the hell do we keep getting back to this discussion?

Because rail fans in YouTube are claiming that the r211's are going to subway lines that are not getting CBTC and have low ridership.

They even have the nerve to say that r160's can carry more passengers than the r211's.

Less seats means that more people can fit inside the train. It's not rocket science.

These rail fans think that because they live in certain neighborhoods that they're entitled to always getting new trains.

10 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

As much as I personally would like to see an R211 on the (really its just I wanna see full color bullets again) there is no need for Broadway to get them. They can get R268s in ~10 years.

Any combination of would be ideal landing spots for the R211s given CBTC install and crowding conditions and one simply needs to ride one of the current sets on the to see it in action.

The extend of the discourse is just going to be this in circles until something actually happens.

I agree 100%.

11 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

These retards really don't have logic at all. People really don't want these cars at Jamaica but i still think they have a 98% chance of ending up there due to the fact that these cars are built for lines like the and .

 

These fans want them on the / so damn bad but yet they don't think with logic.

 

I'm assuming that these fans live in Astoria.

Less seats means more standing room, which means that more people can fit on the train.

Also, they are against making the C and G full length.

If option 2 is exercised the N/Q/W can get some of the r160's back in addition to getting all the r68's. 

The B, D, E, F should get the r211's. The Q can borrow the r211's during the weekends, since it's the only Broadway line besides the R that gets rerouted via 6th Avenue. The R can keep the r160's. If option 2 includes 8 car trains, then those can go to the M.

Any thoughts on this information that was posted on YouTube?

1 hour ago, 1998NewFlyer said:

Can we get back to r211 talk the r36s been gone over almost 2 decades 

The reason I initially brought up the red birds is because it seems that some of the train crews that operate the A line may be stuck in the 90's. If those particular train crews are having issues with the r211's, then they should be operating the NQW, which are going to be stuck with SMEEs for the next 7 years.

As for the cameras, it is normal in any workplace to be surrounded by cameras. If staff don't have anything to hide and is doing his/her job, then he/she shouldn't be worried about being monitored via camera.

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Can someone explain why the  wasn’t 10 cars to begin with, or shared with the ? 

Cause the MTA didn't order enough 10 car r179's and the C has less ridership than the A. However, ridership is growing on both lines. Therefore, the C will need to go full length.

Unfortunately, were dealing with a transit agency that is stuck in the present.

8 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

The Redbirds (the R36s to be specific) had the highest MDBF in 1999. 

I rode the red birds that ran on the #2 train. They were terrible. No AC, the lights were always flickering and water was leaking whenever it was raining. I was so glad when they got replaced by the r142's. 

22 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Cameras in the cabs.

Still, if employees are doing what they suppose to be doing at work, then they should not have an issue with being supervised via camera or via face to face. This applies to all jobs in general. 

In the case of the MTA, train crews are responsible for the safety of thousands of people who ride the subway.

31 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I have quite a few friends who are C/O’s and T/O’s and they don’t want to qualify on them because of the cameras.

Well they need to get it together cause the MTA is planning to put cameras on all trains.

7 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

If I say what I am ACTUALLY thinking…

people are actually refusing to get qualified on these trains. It makes running service with them difficult.

some people have said “well, just set them aside till you have enough people”… but that’s not an option.

all that is going to do is prolong the maintenance headache of keeping the R46s running as more and more people stall learning them. It’s giving in to their resistance to change. A LOT of qualified people picked off the A. 
 

folks just need to bite the bullet and learn them. They are not going anywhere.

”you won’t catch me driving that thing…” needs to stop.

I wouldn't be surprised if those crews who are refusing to get qualified are crews that have been working for the MTA for over 20 years and have their mindset stuck in the 1990's, a time when almost all SMEEs (except the redbirds) were in excellent shape.

We're not in the 1990's anymore. We're in 2023. Crews that run the A train need to get it together or the MTA will have to discipline them.

9 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

It’s actually the MFL (Market-Frankford Line) in Philly. Yes they do have NTTs called the M4, which is poorly built by ADTranz from 1997-1999. Their car numbers are from 1001-1220, but 1033-1034 are used as a disposal and revenue collection service, which runs nightly after trains stop running. The BSL (Broad St) line does NOT have NTTs, their trains are B-IVs from Kawasaki in 1983. Their car numbers are in 2 dividends: the single ends are 501-576, and the double ends are 651-699. 2 cars (650 & 500) were renumbered to CW3 & CW4. They do the same routine as the MFL. These trains are slated to retire once an order of B-Vs, BSL’s NTTs arrive, which is hopefully next 2 years. The Trolleys, are slated to get new 130 light rail cars by 2027. 

Thanks for the clarification.

2 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

Not sure if it was you I saw yesterday, but if you saw a dude with a Kamen Rider Double shirt on, it was moi. 

Finally got my Far Rockaway trip yesterday and I definitely felt a tinge of happiness. Crazy to think all the East Coast sutems are in the process of getting rid of their last OG car classes.

A new Era really is upon us and I need to experience as much of the current sytem as I can. Memories and all that

DC is still putting NTTs on their trains despite their issues with Kawasaki, which was much more severe, than the r179's. Also, the FML in Philly has NTTs. I'm not sure about the BSL in Philly. If I'm not mistaken Boston is in the process of putting NTTs as well.

2 hours ago, AZthefoamer said:

Probably at some point. The A and Rockaway Shuttle share fleet so it is very possible that sooner or later it will happen.

Some have suggested that the A will become fully R211. In that case, SR will also be fully R211.

For now however, running NTT sets on the A (higher capacity) is optimal.

The A can't be fully r211's until the 8 car r179's leave the C. 

It will be very confusing for the C to run both 8 and 10 car r179s.

2 hours ago, Chris89292 said:

So about the R211 signed up as a  …… is there any chance the R211’s will ever on the  I feel like it’ll make sense if the R179’s were cut into 5 sets to replace the R46’s off the shuttle, and making the  all R211’s with a few spare sets of R179’s

Yes, once the r46's are gone from the A. 

The 10 car r179's will stay on the A for the foreseeable future.

Once, the C becomes 100% full length, it may be a different story.

58 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

I just remembered that they are going to be doing the 63rd st trackwork GO which is a long term GO, So this might affect some car moves since the   won't be on queens blvd. this makes me think a good chunk of R179s would be moved from ENY to the and the R46s get pushed onto the , transferred to CI or sidelined as more R211s come into service.

How come the MTA and the media hasn't informed riders about these changes?

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

I will explain this again regarding the

Again, Making the 8 cars would be more costly than it being full length. the would have to have a dedicated fleet of 8 car trains meaning the yard that houses the would need additional cars as spares. If the is 10 cars, It can share with the exsiting 10 car fleet reducing spare factor and allowing for more flexibility

 

The evidence is and was clearly there. Why do you think they combined the   and . The sudden R44 retirement caused a big shortage due to NYCT reefing 70% of the 60 foot SMEE fleet. The being cut was basically a result of 2nd ave construction rather than a cut, we knew it was coming back which it did 6 years later. If they didn't reef as many SMEE's back then, the   would have been full length R32s and R46s with the A-A units being housed at 207th st. The was always planned to go full length dating back to 2009 when they thought at the time the R32s would retire back in 2010.

 

The has been getting slammed with more ridership and should have been 8 or 10 cars at that time and the plan was to make the 8 car R32s and R179s when the shutdown was going to happen but that got canned. 

 

 

 

I mean it already is kinda. They way the is set up right now is dumb since it's confusing to both the passengers and crew and they tried this back in 2017 but they banned the R46s off the until they lifted the ban in order to get rid of the R32s due to politics (before covid)

 

 

 

Ridership is growing and is going to grow even more if Congestion pricing starts next year. has to prepare for that, current service levels atm is not ideal to handle the influx of more people when you have short and trains and other problems.

 

This is why and the state should delay congestion pricing until 2026 because clearly they aren't ready and having a crew shortage only makes it worse. The over entitled will take out their frustrations out on TA workers instead of the folks at 2 Broadway. 

It would be ideal for both the C and the G to have 10 car trains, but there are not enough 10 car trains to allow this change to happen. We would have to wait for option 2. Option 1 will only make the C full length.

This would have happen much  sooner if the MTA would have ordered 50 8-car r179's to retire the r42's and make the rest of the r179 order 10 car trains in addition to the extra 10 car trains the MTA received as a result of the r179 delays.

Also, both the A and C need to be 100% NTTs by the end of 2024 due to CBTC.

In addition, the V and W weren't eliminated due to train shortage. They were both eliminated due to budget cuts that also eliminated several bus routes. These budget cuts were a result of the 2008-2010 recession.

The train shortage was caused by the premature retirement of the r44's and the MTAs dumb decision of not ordering extra r179's.