B35 via Church

I'm not defending or agreeing with the idea, but it's basically an attempt to combine the B2 & the B100, while also retaining the current B100 east of flatbush.... A sort of compromise, if you will.... Way I see it, there is no point in having 2 branches of a combined route.... either combine the two routes fully or treat them as individual routes..... Of course not... all people see is how close the 2 routes are on a map.... and from that, come to the conclusion that the 2 routes should be combined.... Which is why I wouldn't touch service on the 100 east of the subway station.....

oh nah... dude in the wheelchair needed (and missed) the 68..... He attempted to board the 82. It (the 82) was an RTS.

What a royal waste of time to operate the wheelchair lift to bring someone onto the bus.... To then bring them back down because they attempted to get on the wrong bus.... yesterday, someone needed the B68... but when he just missed the 68, he scooted over to the B82 bus stop in coney Island.... The b/o was about to let the standing passengers on the bus, but then the b/o accomodated to the wheelchair passenger first..... lmao @ how loudly the passengers were cursing, after the wheelchair passenger got let off the bus.... Those B82 passengers were standing there for a while too, b/c I had just missed a 74, and had to wait 10 mins. for the next one to pull up (with a 5 min. stall, after it pulled off).... If I were in that situation, I would have been pissed too, to be honest... but don't take it out on the man on the wheelchair....

You know that & I know that... but Threxx is coming across as if hardly anyone takes the route, no matter what time of the day it is.... As far as sending the B2 elsewhere (instead of cutting it like Shortline mentioned.... or merging it w/ some other route like a couple others have mentioned across the forums), your original idea of having that route serve Av P & 65th, etc. to me makes the most sense.....

B2 - The hell you mean where am I seeing these people? B2's arrive @ the subway station in the morning crowded... and they depart during the pm rush hours crowded.... The ridership is spread out from end to end, for the most part.... Furthermore, since you're conveying this notion as if hardly anyone takes the B2.... Why "easily" re-route the 100 to serve Marine Park if that's the case..... B16 - You said "came with almost all the seats filled".... That implicates buses heading towards prospect park.... Secondly..... Like I said, I want MTA's reasoning for the extension, not your summary of it..... B70 - "uh huh. yeah".... I will.

You know I was spot on with that..... Throwing those 2 ideas out of left field with no real thought or backing behind them whatsoever..... B16 - towards prospect park in the morning ? now that's just not true... those buses damn near empty out at church av subway.... Whatever amt. of folks you do see waiting for 16's heading towards bay ridge, mainly come off 43's, or the subway... If you do see a considerable crowd of folks waitin for the 16, it's b/c buses are late; which is rather common on that route... and the one thing I can't stand on top of it, is that some b/o's tend to crawl the route.... I really want to know their reason for extending it from parkside..... B23 - I'm not gonna argue with you on this one any further... with as many B6's & 82's that circle in & out of there, you aint terminating no other route inside there... why do you think they have buses layover on glenwood b/w E 96th & rockaway pkwy. (opposite the bus stops).... those buses that layover inside the loop itself doesn't help the cause either.... ....and forget about having some other route run inside the lane that the B42 does..... B70 - yeah well, still not convinced that this route "has" to go to VA Hosp..... You can have other routes serve the hospital.... B100 - The B2 is not used? Now I know you don't know what you're talking about here.... Tell those Marine Park residents that disembark that route @ the subway station in the morning & embark on them in the late pm hours that the route is not used..... those bad boys easily leave SRO, sometimed packed to the gills...

B31 - that's basically one big ole unnecessary 'U' shaped route created for no other reason at all than to simply send the B31 *somewhere*..... B82 - pointless.... you don't want the B7 being the only route b/w flatbush av & ocean av along kings hwy.... real quick... B16: not enough if you ask me, especially panning towards prospect park.... B23: ideally, yeah.... but there's no space for that.... B64: as long as it serves 86th/4th.... B70: and why is that.... B100: So is the B2, but you would combine it with another route..... lol...

I figured someone would misconstrue that.... Guess I'll clarify. When I said "all times" regarding the B31, I meant all B31's would terminate at kings hwy (B/Q).... It had nothin to do w/ the span of the route...... Thanks for the reply, bro B2/B100 - I guess we'd do things differently then.... I just can't c/s extending the 31 just so the 2 can be killed..... B3 - how exactly would that work? B4 - that was similar to an old idea I had... where I said instead of it ending on narrows, it can be extended down 4th av to 86th.... 86th st may not need 2 routes, but I do think a route b/w sheepshead bay (the neighborhood, not just the subway station) & bay ridge across 86th st would flourish - even if they unfortunately would be subjected to the traffic under the subway.... I mean, moreso than extending the current B4 to 86th/4th & truncating it at sheepshead bay subway..... B16 - you're right, I always found the 16 to be very unreliable.... well, at least the one positive is that it does tend to hook up w/ the B35 at that stop over there on 14th/39th.... B23 - to some extent, yes (about relieving crowding on the B35 & helping out the sometimey B8 [esp. during the pm hrs]).... but those weren't the main reasons I thought up the route.... Having it stop dead at utica would be an idea for a short turn, I suppose.... As far as service past utica av, see what I said to BrooklynBus about why I'd have such a route serving canarsie..... B50 - Oh, I agree there's a market.... I just don't agree with having both routes in starrett city run to gateway... B64/70 - I think Bath av should have its own route & that section of sunset park/dyker hgts should have its own route.... I never liked the idea of combining those two routes (the bath av route having to be subjected to the street notorious for double parking / hangups that is 8th av.... dam MCI's & jitneys think they own the road....

Not sure what you're alluding to in that last sentence.... but nonetheless, the B5 I thought up came as a result of having moved the B4 along 86th st & breaking up the 82 the way I did..... of course there's a need for service along bay ridge pkwy, and I do think folks along 25th av & along cropsey (b/w 25th av & the pathmark) need *some* sort of bus service.... I also feel as if folks along that same section of cropsey shouldn't have to be subjected to riding a bus out to bay pkwy subway station if they need the D..... first point: Well I wouldn't have the B64 & the B70 serving that same stretch b/w VA hospital & 5th av... if that's the case, I may as well combine the two routes (which I simply don't agree with).... I'd rather send the bath av route to 86th/4th over serving the areas that the 70 does..... second point: My concern wasn't it simply being 3 routes total (hell, woodhull also fits that criteria... with 2 routes to spare), as much as it was 3 routes fitting inside that waiting area.... Regardless, Point taken. Instead of sending it down to Av K or L, I thought better of it & just left it as panning no further south than flatlands.... May as well let/leave the B42 handle rockaway pkwy.... At least you didn't suggest that I combine it w/ the B42..... On top of serving Canarsie plaza, having the B23 serve that snippet of Canarsie (the neighborhood) was basically an attempt to address a gap b/w the B8 & the B6/82..... such an addition I think will take riders off B6's/B82's (after having xferred off 47's) if they need the L or whatever..... I'm not so sure that they do.... we'll just have to differ on this one. Noted.

They'd rather short turn B82's at 25th/cropsey instead of short turning them at CI av/Quentin b/c that would do nothin more than further show & prove how wrong they were for creating the B82 in the first place...... That, and facilitating canarsie riders like that would come at the expense of riders west of the brighton (west of CI av really).....

Thanks for the compliment & your commentary. We've had enough discussions about the B82, so I think you know how I always felt about the route.... - As for the the B100... that route, I feel, ends abruptly... instead of it turning off on E. 16th to terminate, that is the route I would have serving kings highway (west).... between the B2/31/100, the B31 of the three should be left alone - unlike country club up in the bronx, gerritsen riders actually USE their route ! - The swapping of the 4 & 5 nomenclatures... hmm, I see what you're gettin at with that.... - Yep, the 23 ending at VA Hospital was the only other option I considered for that end of the route... but since I have the 8 & the 64 going there, I didn't want to have three routes serving the hospital (one reason I moved the 70 from there)..... don't think that little space can handle but so many buses, unless I have one of the routes not stopping inside the pickup/dropoff area there..... - Your B2 LTD point is something to consider.... - Yeh, the B42 I'd leave alone.... Although I did think about ending the 23 somewhere along rockaway pkwy (around av K or L...), but that would be too arbitrary... folks would most likely gun for that 42 anyway...... - I wouldn't have any local route panning the length of shore road... But if I were to do what you're suggesting, I'd just alternate the B70 b/w serving 3rd av & shore road, since I have that ending down on shore/4th/101st anyway.... The B9 is slow enough as it is... IIRC, I think you truncated it to flatbush (correct me if that's not accurate)..... Me, I would leave it serving kings plz.... I wouldn't have the (already extended) B2, extended from xaverian down to 101st - even if I were to consider running the B2 the way you suggested (as a ltd along 65th)..... As for the last question/concern, yeh, that's what I have the B2 doing (from 65th, to 13th, to bay ridge av).... I didn't think that turn was as tough as the b/o you spoke to describes it as..... Guess I'll have to scour the area to see if the turn is manageable or not (just like I did with seeing if a bus could possibly manage the turn/loop where bay pkwy ends [referring to the 100 idea])..... an on-site "case study" if you will....

1) That's the same question I had upon reading that post of his.... 2) heh.... remember when the S53 used to terminate @ 95th st..... how did that work out? Regardless, I don't agree with any plan that involves removing the S53, S93, & S79 from terminating at 86th/4th on the Brooklyn end.... not moving it to 86th/shore rd (despite the uproar that would emanate from residents in that part of the community), nor sending it to 59th st subway (although I get why you brought it up - In comparison to his thoughts about moving those routes.... thing is, it's still a about [if not more than a] mile long extension)

Yeah right... If service is a] enhanced & b] curtailed to where the bulk of the (current B82's) riders are taking it to & from (which was the routing of the 50 b/w CI/Quentin & Starrett city), then there is no way in hell would there be folks in Canarsie that wouldn't be happy about that.... The B82 caused just as much problems than it solved; ask some former B50 rider that currently has to take the B82.... I'll even go as far as to say that the creation of the B82 shifted more riders to taking the B6; totally changing some folks' commuting patterns (yeh, that's not SW Brooklyn, but I'm still bringing it up since your point of contention is regarding Canarsie riders....) Like I already told Shortline numerous times, Spring Creek & Canarsie patrons aren't riding it out westward the brighton in significant enough numbers... if that were the case, B82's would be far more jammed than they tend to currently get at times..... AFAIC, the result that yielded the B82 boiled down to the MTA having to come up w/ some solution to addressing the duplication issue the B5, 7, and 50 had b/w the brighton line & flatbush av.... sure, another secondary issue had to do w/ the terminal situation @ flatbush av (with the turnaround scenario & what not).... So they took a route that had the ridership & merged it with the route that well, didn't..... same thing they did w/ the B13 (the rendition b/w williamsburg & gateway mall), the current B43, the current B47.... all cost cutting measures.... anyway, regarding the B82.... Like I said before, those folks on the more western portion of the route benefitted more than those on the more eastern portion of the route (this includes canarsie)...... ....While the B7 was left untouched. They really need to figure out what to do w/ that route.....

When did SC get the new flyers ? b/c I'm starting to see more of em now on the 103.....

^^ lol.... that should read B/Q... since the edit time is up.... I was also gonna mention... other notables: * B5 takes the place of the B4 along bay ridge pkwy.... * B82 is eliminated; split between the B50 & B100 * B7 no longer serves that part of brooklyn

Rather than critique Threxx's latest update on he would do things.... This is pretty much how I would restructure things in SW Brooklyn.... {any route not mentioned = no changes... on the SW brooklyn end anyway} B2: Kings Plaza to Xaverian HS [shore rd/mackay pl] (via Av. R, via av P, via 65th st) B3: 25th av to Bergen Beach [veterans/E. 71st] (via Av U) B4: Bay Ridge [86th/4th] to Sheepshead Bay [knapp/voorhies] (via 86th st, shell rd, av. Z, via current B4 routing south of ocean/av z) B5: Bay Ridge [narrows/77th] to Coney Island [stillwell/surf] (via bay ridge pkwy, stillwell, 25th av, cropsey) B16: Shore rd/4th av to parkside av (via ft. hamilton pkwy) B23: 86th/Ft. Hamilton pkwy. to Canarsie [flatlands/E. 96th] (via 86th st, via 13th/14th avs, via cortelyou, via av. D, via foster) B50: Coney Island av/Quentin rd. to Starrett city [seaview/penn.] (via kings hwy [to Av. K]), via flatlands) B64: Bay Ridge [86th/4th] to Mermaid bus loop/terminal (via VA hospital, via bath, via stillwell) B70: Shore rd/4th av to Sunset park [39th/1st] (via 3rd av, bay ridge av, 8th av) B100: Mill Basin to Caesars Bay shopping ctr. (via fillmore, via kings hwy, via bay pkwy [to end of road;]) so I'd have the.... - B1, 4, 64, and the SI buses terminating at 86th/4th.... - B2 & B9 having common terminals on both ends (at Kings plz. & at Xaverian) - B16, 63, 70 terminating down at shore rd/4th av - B64, 68, 74 terminating inside mermaid bus loop, and the B5 terminating just off the corner of stillwell/surf (like the 82 used to) - B31 (all times) & B2 (part time) terminating at kings hwy ... (B100's would have no short turns)....

lol.... I mean, unless someone else wants to bring up another concern regarding bus routes in SW-ern Brooklyn.....

nah... it's one way westbound (on the southbound side of nostrand)....

Negative, bro... off nostrand av (northbound), it makes a left on neck rd to stand (layover).... then for the return trip, it proceeds to & then turns up E. 29th, to av U, then back down nostrand.....

...and a silly what if scenario at that. Anyway, I don't know why the B74 was created.... BrooklynBus, our resident historicist here, can answer that for you.... As for your last question, Kingal11234 brought up the B74 (a Coney Island route) after I commented about his B36 suggestion up to the junction.... What the B74 had to do with that particular B36 suggestion, well your guess is as good as mine..... ...which is why I think such a merge is a bad idea. same exact thing with folks wanting to merge the B42 with the B60 out in canarsie.... If the shorter routes garner ridership (i.e. being highly efficient), may as well leave those bad boys a-lone.....

What is goin on in this thread.... Who said anything about it being impossible.... Not being realistic does not mean rerouting some route somewhere is not possible..... Yes, the B44 has its issues, but it aint that egregious to where that the B44 needs a supplementary route b/w Av Z. & the junction..... I'm not gonna talk about sending B36's up to the junction anymore because it isn't warranted.... Your comments about the B74 I'm not taking seriously.... Unbelievable isn't it..... Constantly arriving & leaving packed @ Mermaid loop classifies as useless nowadays, I suppose..... Dude, I get how the route works; that aint the issue here.... All Shortline wants to accomplish w/ the B82 is to have it serve Gateway mall; the two of us have had enough discussions regarding Brooklyn's routes..... That's why he's breaking up the route into 2 segments.... As far as shortline's comment.... again, don't tell me the route works - and then make a proposal to alter it somehow.... That does not compute. I'm not gonna sit here & argue "potential" b/c it's immeasurable.... but the fact of the matter is, the B74 is heavily used by CI residents down there.... With its current structure/purpose & usage, there is ZERO need to extend that route anywhere past Stillwell av subway sta.....

Do you know what the word hinder means.... Extending the B36 all the way to the junction would make the route more slow & delayed than what it currently is.... Why would you want to make one of the main problems on the 36 worse.... You're not being realistic here with all this, buddy..... If you have the B44 serve sheepshead bay subway, then that ultimately defeats the purpose of extending the B36 & the B74 (lol) to the junction..... Such a plan would leave those patrons down by Emmons with nothing but a part time B4, and the express bus....

But it would hinder service on the B36. I don't think the 36 needs to be extended past it's current eastbound terminal..... Not to the junction, nor to kings plaza either (as some others have suggested)....

I'm still waiting for an answer to this question too.... 1) It isn't..... Which is why you often have a boatload of ppl. waiting for the NB 63 on 86th/5th.... hate waiting at that corner for the bus... over/under, 1 baby stroller you'll have to contend with.... 2) I'm not going to use those old ideas on his site as a reference point as to how he would change service around anymore.... If it works, then why propose these changes.....