East New York

No, and I just spit the discussion out of the R188 thread so you guys can catch up on that.

Since this program is expanding, and will soon be public record, I have decided to split this discussion off from the R188 thread, and create an all new one. A major reason for this is, effective December 2018, MTA has decided to seek out qualified vendors with knowledge on train upgrades to begin the research process for the upgrade of the entire fleet of R142 and R142A cars. These cars will be R188 standard, however will not have the designation as they are only 10 car trains. Full report and updates coming in short order.

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Dante aka East New York. No I do not work for MTA. I own a consulting firm and work WITH the MTA. I have also worked with every major component supplier as well consulted with about 90 different transit agencies over the last 2 decades. I have been the pioneer of many successful programs, from Metrocard changes, getting New Glyer back in NYC, getting Nova back in America, SAS, to SBS and beyond. In the process, 90% of what goes on within all agencies of the MTA comes across my desk before 98% of MTA employees actually get the information. I have released more exclusives on the MTA than anyone else in this industry next to Mr. Trevor Logan Jr. I’ve created every new train project thread EXCEPT this one, and and that’s only because I was on vacation for my birthday when it all came out and I had new bus contracts to sort through. I also limit what I now post in subways because it’s really irritating when people tell me what’s not going to happen or my information is incorrect when, when my 11 year records stands at 99.9% accuracy. If anything changed it’s because the MTA decided to make changes, or minor details were incorrect. This exactly why I waited for the black and white to come out on the R262. I’m too old to be arguing with you all these days, and explaining every 8-12 months who I am. Please note the credibility of NYC Transit Forums was build off the back of my information and the string of exclusives I used to do. At one point 90% of MTA news was release here first. New agencies, and newspaper media outlets have gotten stories from here as well. Great example is when I posted that MTA would shut the L down and get 200 used diesel buses from TTC. Well once the new saw my post they nipped that in the bud immediately and now we have 200 brand new buses currently being delivered. For those that didn’t know, the $1 charge for new MetroCards, and making them refillable was my idea. The report I summited on what would do if I was the CEO of MTA has actually been implemented across the board. The only plans I had in there that fell apart was the order of new RTS buses, and a subway under Utica Av that stretched from Kings Plaza to LaGuardia. MTA started both programs. MTS couldn’t meet the terms for new RTS buses, and realistically they can’t afford a subway under Utica. I then suggested a diversion of that money to restart SAS. Now phase 1 is complete. So to answer your question of where I got my information, I have access to all things MTA. Including some classified material that I can’t discuss until it hits black and while. I got in major trouble for that, and I was attacked right here at NYCTF. I posted info on the R188 award before Kawasaki was notified, and I also created a thread stating that New Flyer was resurrecting the C40LF from the dead for MTA before they were notified as well. Even NFI though I was lying, so I don’t take offense anymore. I would also never say “I told you so.” Even though I could have about 70 times now. I’m also changing the name of the R188 thread and integrating the R142 upgrade information. Please standby for that. This program has been in the works for nearly 2 years now. It just hasn’t been public. I did however break the story in it in a thread somewhere. I will try to find it. I may start a new thread because the upgrades will now expand to the entire 142/142A fleet. MTA is actually seeking out any and ALL companies with knowledge in train rebuilding to consult on the project. Ideally they would have had Bombardier at the forefront for this project, but they aren’t confident in their work at this time. We will get into all these juicy new details as soon as I finish the report. Back on topic. Now that the R262 is public, my full program report is coming soon.

The R142’s aren’t going to be replaced anytime soon. They will all be upgraded to R188’s.

They already released it. I’m waiting on my copies now! I can’t wait to dive into all that info. Inactive. They are technically still open. Yes Orion was. It’s a shame they were only months away from a public launch of the Orion IX and Orion X Artic. Electric was going to be a focus for those platforms. If anyone wants to take a travel back in time to when we didn’t have as many users and I was just coming onboard as a staff member full time, check the link below. This is how I used to post new program information all the time. Now, if I post it seems as if most people ask all the same questions 2 days later lol.

Used to lol. Not many hybrids are plug in these days. Most just have electric systems driven by the gas or Diesel engines now. 500 miles on a single charge in good weather conditions. Extreme temps sill won’t affect the bus even if the charge hold drops a whole 50%. Charge time is 3 hours for 100%. Rumor has it the next award may include electric express test buses. I’m a auto, truck and bus/diesel mechanic, so I’m still learning as well seeing as this tech is still developing. I do however love learning about it. I have also realized that they don’t require much maintenance at all. Not at many moving parts, not as many components need replacing. I should complete my master technician certification buy years end. There’s a whole new class on electrically driven vehicles that I can’t wait to dive into. However, being an RTS owner, Detroit raised, and Detroit Diesel Trained, I’m not quite ready to let go of my engines for this electric stuff. But it is what it is. It’s more efficient, clean, and tons better for the environment. Truth be told, MTS did NOT want to continue forward with any other buses other than the RTS Extreme LF Electric. They just needed MTA to seal the deal for diesel to give them the money needed to start the electric line. MTS tech is much more advanced that what NFI has now, but they just dont have the funding. I signed an NDA with them, so I can’t discuss the all-electric tech they were developing. Let’s just say no-one wants it to actually come out because if it does, NFI will have competition again. They don’t really have any now. Thats all I’m gonna say about that...... 😉

7686, 7687 to EN 6123, 6125 MQ to FB 7711, 7714, 7715, 7718, 7720, 7721 to FP 7716, 7717, 7722, 7725 to GA 5539, 5549, 5554-5558, 5560, 5561, 5563 to GH 0011 NFI Aniston back to MQ via the service center. Specs are now finalized for the XE60’s. Please excuse double posts if there are any.

Please note that hybrids do not have transmissions. What exactly are you hoping for? The assignments are already posted lol. They are going to quill and a couple will test out of “select depots” in all 5 boroughs. It’s mentions in the fleet review. Manufacturers are going to make what the market demands. They all currently offer some type of all-electric buses anyway. Yes NFI is New Flyer which owns MCI, and no this bus is all-Electric. Our current electric buses are duel-mode charging. Meaning they plug-in at the depot or fast charge along a route or with a mobile charger. All available electric vehicles are plug-in. Not many hybrids are plug-in at all. Only a few cars, but no buses.

Let me start off by saying this is a discussion for the Fleet & Depots thread. If you made a general discussion post recently and no longer see it here, it’s because I removed it. This conversation will be moved for reference. This is the ONLY conversation that will be moved. All others will simply be removed, and your posting privileges will subject to immediate suspension. At this point these buses (XDE40’s) aren’t being tested. These are production pilot buses for the upcoming order, not test buses. This is actually a direct competition and evaluation between the different hybrid systems. I’m 100% percent sure we will get more XDE40’s, and if Nova drops the price of their hybrids we will get a split order with Nova LFS hybrids as well. Those would/will go to the Bronx and Queens. Quill is getting new hybrids (see hybrid deployment plans on the first page of fleet and depots). When they arrive, they will be assigned Quill, so it makes sense for a couple depots to get and evaluate at least one BAE unit and one Allison unit. What I will be waiting for is Ulmer Park. Theses will be their first hybrids. Nothing was ever mentioned about hybrids, yet this was a given seeing that they will go to all divisions except Staten Island. The original electric plans were for Quill and GA to swap fleets 18 months into testing. When I last checked, this was put on hold due to the the fact that the Proterra has not passed the BTE as of yet. New Flyer on the other hand has, and in the process, test bus 0011 has returned to NFI and now serves as the configuration audit bus for the XE60 order, which will NOT have pilots. The lead buses will be similar to pilots for configuration audit and finalization. One will test in service for 60 days on the M14, then the rest will follow. Once TA has successfully burned all the buses in, finalized testing for outer-borough operations, a couple will start to head out to the other 4 boroughs for testing. MTA has also opted to put on hold the ordering of any en-route chargers for the time being, and will test out M14 the logistics and operational viability of charging them with the existing leased chargers being used for the M42 and M50 runs. After the lease is up, MTA can then purchase chargers and deploy them based on the assignments of the 45 XE40’s that are pending unless Proterra passes the brake test in the next 10 months.

I’m pretty sure we are talking about 2 different thing. This detour was for N/W station upgrades.

All electric is less expensive in the long run. Buses require much less maintenance. As of right now no one has tested electric buses other than Quill in Manhattan and Grand in Queens (Brooklyn Division). As of right now the buses have been testing for quite sometime and the New Flyer models have received favorable results. There’s no reason it won’t work here as it’s already been proven successful. The only major issue with the Preterras have been brakes not passing MTA’s testing. Mad far as hybrids go, I mentioned over a decade ago that it was a mistake u less they were Allison powered because of wide range our duty cycles. This proved to be corrects and they had to be tuned to keep up with NYC demands. We have good hybrids, they just weren’t made for high speeds. Any new tech or bus is going to have teaching problems. When the RTS was introduced it failed and had major rear door problems and a few other minor issues. At one time MTA was considering the testing of hydrogen-electric hybrid, (XHE40 or XHE60) buses, however they made the decision to go diesel-hybrid, then all-electric across the board. College Point has plans for articulated operations in the future with routes such as the Q25. But if and when this happens it will likely be XE60’s. MTA is no longer interested in long term investments in any buses other than all-electric. It is likely that last diesel and CNG orders have been awarded. MTA Bus will have the next standard procurement for 25 buses with options for an additional 16 options. This is ok the books as a diesel award but will likely change to hybrid and follow the 275 additional buses we have coming starting next year. It could also be converted to electric as well to support the conversion. This is the wave of the future. If the tech hasn’t failed by now, I don’t see it happening in the future. Our leased test buses have been performing quite well, and our first production order is only for 15 buses, so it’s not like the MTA is jumping out the window like they did with hybrids. Then next is 45 standard buses. If they were to somehow fail, MTA has cushion to move to another platform or go back to hybrids. Please note this includes express buses and I’m also getting word that MTA may also opt for a few test buses in the upcoming order which is pending for later this year. NFI is aggressively working on the new D45 CRTe (high-floor) and CRTe LE (low-entry) all-electric versions with tech based off the Xcelsior Charge. Effectively know as the D45 CRTe Charge and D45 CRTe LE Charge, these will be plug-in types and will not have en-route charging capabilities to my understanding. MCI (NFI) is currently in the test phase and want the buses (including the J4500e) to be commercially available next year in 2020. The J4500e prototype is complete and as many may know, the new D45 is essentially a classic D merged with a J. All my sources are telling me that as soon as the first bus is ready, and Altoona certified, it will make its way to NYC.

No they shouldn’t. NY MTA and LAMTA, the the 1st and now 3rd largest agency (NJT passed LA for the first time ever this year) are slated for all electric fleets. The technology is mature enough to begin full implementation within the next 10-15 years. Just let it go....... MTA does not agree with you so it’s not happening. It’s not happening guys. So let’s just let it go. MTA’s decision was between the XDE60 and the XE60. The decided on the XE60 and already awarded the contract. Even if they did go with the hybrids they were still going to Quill. Not the Bronx for anything other than duct cycle testing right now. No need to make a fantasy thread on it either. Yes New Flyer offered CNG-electric hybrids for a moment but no one purchased them. The new Cummins Gas Engine has a Near zero pollution rate so they aren’t really needed. All depots means all depots. Anyone can use them. They are Diesel-Electric hybrids.... Whick means they are fueled with diesel fuel. Just explained above. The 3G’s are NOT hybrids bro. They are diesel. They didn’t like them. Same as East New York. Again as mentioned above the 3G’s ARE NOT hybrids.

There are no articulated routes that don’t have high ridership.

M60+ and Q19 stop is temporarily relocated during construction until Tuesday Feb. 6th.

They aren’t bumps. We have been over all of this multiple times. Depots are simply getting what they would have gotten post L train, with the exception of West Farms, which originally would have had enough buses, but due to other reason and the fact that they decided to make the 6 local articulated, they need more buses in the meanwhile. FB getting Quills artics makes absolutely no sense. Especially after we have discussed what’s going on anytime there is an update. You answered the last question in your own statement...... That’s the only logical answer along with the M35 isn’t it? Lets not start with the speculation and a million questions. Let’s just READ and wait. A lot of you are not reading or keeping up with what’s going on. That what the first page of this thread along with my regular updates are for. They were always planned to come in local scheme but have SBS pain under them anyway. Just like all the XN60’s.

I’m going to post the redeployments here, as well as in Fleet & Depots. The first page of that thread is about 90% updated. Fleet numbers for the following depots are coming, but in the meanwhile: XD40 61 to JA 43 to MQ 54 to EN 65 to FP 35 to GA 48 delivered to FB 21 to WF (Permanently for the time being) 40 to UP. *As for the LFSA’s, Quill will still get the last 36. *For the XD60’s, we are back to the original assignment with the first 6 still scheduled for delivery to Hale this month. Flatbush is scheduled to get it’s first 10 next month. *8508 is in on the LFS side. Queensvillage followed by Yukon, will begin to take delivery in short order.

Coming this evening: XE60, and new hybrid overview. NYCT/MTAB System merger updates. New Fare Payment updates, and the now pending pilot program. Post L-Train depot assignments, which are complete for now. Major 1st page Tite Post updates.

That’s why we have a test fleet of 10. Then a production fleet of 60 will follow. 3 years is long enough to test the technology for extensive evaluation purposes. Other agencies have electric buses, so preliminary life-cycle evaluations have taken place. You have to start somewhere. It’s not that risky because it’s not that many buses and as mentioned, the feds are paying for most of it anyway. Not only that, but that’s what warranties are for. Electric buses are still developing and maturing, but articulated buses are not. They are just longer versions as any artic is. Both the Proterra and NFI Electric buses passed Altoona Testing back in 2015. No. 0011 and it’s status has been discussed several times. Please go back a page or two and rewiew the winter updates. No, the artics are coming this year. Again, please review the fleet updates.

Yes, these are training buses for 1, and for 2, they could technically go to EN as soon as the depot mods are complete since there is no L train shuttle now. As I said, we have to await the new assignments. Anything could go anywhere right now. In addition to that, this is not the place for side discussions on the fleet. Those belong in the Fleet & Depot threads.

Check the first page of this thread. Outside of a few changes that I need to make, details to add, and assignments to change, most everything else is the same and always current. Check the first page. The entire fleet has to be audited, and when we know it will be posted. They, as in MTA are not trying to get rid of them. Cuomo is. That’s likely only going to happen on the models at EN and UP that have the “Sunroof Hatches.” Buses are put together by hand, so this is going to happen to an odd bus here and there where it may leak more than others. It aldepends on how things are sealed up on the assembly line. However, not one bus ever made has not suffered from this problem. Another note is that roof hatches especially need to be replaced every 6 years. I have this issue myself where mine leak really bad in heavy downpours. Another factor is the manufacturers of roof hatches, window seals, and HVAC units and wiring. Some are more reliable than others.

6128 is on its way to the city for registration, and configuration testing. (Transit) 6234 is on the assembly line. (Bus) Lots of assignments are changing. L train cancellation reassignments, and the status of Hale and Flatbush’s delivery schedule and assignment.

2019 Annual Fleet Review and Major Updates. January 21, 2019 *AEB (All-electric bus) Program. As many who have been keeping up may know, MTA is in the process of a transition to all all-electric bus fleet by 2040. In accordance with this effort, The TA leased 10 standard 40 foot electric buses for a 3 year extensive test and evaluation program. The program will soon enter its 3rd and final year of testing. The evaluation will start to wrap up at then end of this year. Preliminarily, New Flyer is the current front runner of the competition, and has now been approved as a manufacturer of Electric Buses for MTA. This final yes will test further processes and logistics for where future AEB’s will be deployed. Approximately 2 months ago NFI XE40 #0011 made the trip down to the New Flyer Alabama facility for audit preparation services. I have now been able to confirm that 0011 will now serve as the pilot and configuration audit bus for our first ever electric bus order which will be awarded tomorrow, January 22, 2019. By this time next year MTA should be in the secession process for the first 45 standard electric buses. At this time, the Proterra buses have passed all initial qualification testing with the exception of the Deceleration (Brake) Testing. Proterra is working with TA Grand Av. Engineering for a solution to this issue by the time qualification testing wraps up at the end of the year. *ABE Articulated Program. 4 Manufacturers were sought out for planning and potential for the future of the articulated fleet, which like its local 40 foot counterparts will all be replaced by electric buses. At the time of acceptance of all proposals or feedback, it was determined that BYD will work to officially enter the Electric Bus Test and Evaluation Program with both 40 foot and 60 foot models in the not too distant future. NovaBus has not completed its electric artic program and cannot provide buses in the near future. Proterra does not offer an articulated model at this time. ****** I would like to officially announce the first ever production electric order for the New York City Transit Authority. Contract #40640 for the manufacture, furnish, and delivery of 15 New Flyer XE60 articulated electric buses 1110-1124. These articulated electric buses will serve as the first next generation production order. At a price of $1,338,500 each, we are now able to see the prices of electric buses coming down as the demand begins to pick up across North America. Now let’s get into the details! In an effort to accelerate delivery, as well as expand test and evaluation efforts, this order will be very unique, and will not have a pilot bus. As I mentioned a couple months ago, #0011 will serve as a makeshift pilot and configuration audit bus as it is basically the same vehicle with a few changes. 0011 is one at the Alabama facility which is where our buses will be manufactured. The Lead Bus is scheduled for delivery in September, where it will complete 2 months of burn-in testing. At the same time the next couple buses will begin production, and delivery will begin in November. If there needs to be any changes, unlike previous orders MTA and NFI will work to incorporate all of them into the line in order to have all buses delivered by January 2020. This summer in July, NFI and MTA will install 16 in depot chargers at the Manhattan Division Headquarers, Mike J. Quill depot. The majority of these XE60 buses will operate along the M14 line. A couple of these buses will operate all different types of duty cycles in all 5 boroughs. Yes ladies and gentleman, that means Staten Island as well! MTA will also purchase 1 mobile charging unit to support the buses testing in the outer boroughs, or basically any areas a significant distance away from 42nd Street. The current (leased) in-route charging systems at the M42 terminals, will also be able to support charging of the articulated buses if and when needed. This will be a very extensive and rigorous test program and I will be following this one at every turn. We will have more details tomorrow. Or later this afternoon by the time this actually posts. ****** Contract #40666 for the manufacture furnish and delivery of 275 Diesel-Electric Hybrid Buses 9510-9784. MTA will seek board approval for an RFP Authorizing competitive bidding to be impractical, and inappropriate for this upcoming award. At this time there are 2 qualified manufactures to build hybrid buses for MTA. New Flyer, and NovaBus. To date, MTA deemed the delivery schedule of the Nova offering was not favorable, and the price of each Nova was significantly higher than that of New Flyer, and subsequently awarded them an order for 10 hybrid pilot buses. It is now time for MTA to plan the next (outside of MTA Bus company) what may very well be the last hybrid order ever. Because this will not be the standard competitive contract, MTA would like to split the award from what I am being told. They will in fact state in the contract that are open to a split and it wil boil down to evaluation criteria, and the Best And Final offer. MTA could also further split this award between hybrid system manufacturing firms, Allison and BAE. Final design selection will begin immediately when everyone goes back to work this week. Nova could possibly get up to 110 buses out of this order. Exactly 1 year from now MTA plans to award this contract, with delivery to begin Q3 2020. As of right now, potential deployment for these buses are as follows: East New York, Flatbush, Fresh Pond, Grand Avenue, Gun Hill, Jamaica, Kingsbridge, Qill, Manhattanville, Hale, Tuskegee, Queensvillage, and Ulmer Park Depots. ******* Pending Delivery status of current awards. LFS Options (8504-8754) - Production delivery is now pending and buses are scheduled to begin arriving in February. All buses are planned for delivery to Kingsbridge, Gun Hill, Queensvillage and Yukon depots. LFSA Options (5531-5602) - Balance of buses to be delivered to MQ in standard local scheme. The final disposition of the buses may change as the Train status updates. XD40 Options (7484-7850) - Delivery of this buses is now underway, however the assignments are and have been fly by wire. As of right now, some assignments are permanent, but many are not. 88 of the buses were planned for Train, and as of right now they will have to be reassigned. At this point because of deployment being up in the air, it is possible for West Farms to keep at least 8 of these buses in the future. They currently have 20, and some of these assignments may not be so temporary as we once thought. As this develops this week, we try to shed more light on the situation. XD60 Options (6126-6233) - Delivery now pending, and I am being told the planned SBS assignments are as folllows. 6126-6176 (51) to Hale 6177-6233 (57) to Flatbush ****** Express Bus Award for MTA Bus pending May 2019. Details coming soon. As always, any and all information subject to change without notice.

@Future ENY OP A split of both routes can be done with no changes at all. Grand and EN have the largest depots in the borough. EN could easily take on a bit more work if a split was done. The have 2 annex lots as well. As far as control, ENY is and likely always will be Surface Transit Headquartes. Especially with the brand new Bus Command Center that was recently built. They have the most pull in the city followed by Quill. They have historically always got what they wanted. The got pics of RTS fleets from the very first buses, and they get pics on current fleets now as well. Originally EN was gonna get the XDE40’s and a batch of electric buses. However, Grand Avenue is now Bus Engineering Headquarters, so it makes since to have the Electric test buses, and the hybrid pilots operate out of Grand. Complete fleet and depot review, along with a first page update coming this afternoon. It was delayed a bit so I could have time to completely review the Electric Artic contract, which will be awarded to New Flyer tomorrow for the XE60.

Ok before I post what I am about to below, this will be the absolute last time I ask Veteran members to PLEASE NOT have full discussions about ANYTHING other than Moves and Transfers. This is why we have no many double posts on moved. This is not the place for it and that’s the sole purpose of the Fleet & Depots thread. After today if you are not a new member/user and post in that thread, it will be deleted immediately with no warning and no questions asked. Please, and thank you all very much. New memebers, I will just move the post and let them know this is not a place for detailed fleet discussions. After I move all these posts out of this thread later on today, that’s the last time I will mention it. So if one day you look up and your post is gone you know why. Naw, there were a few extra 40’s out on the road. Remember 4 regular runs are 40 foot runs as well. The whole line isn’t artic. Flatbush had quite a few of the XD40’s on the 44+ It is actually possible. Some of the codes just have to be changed. That day is already on the horizon and when the new fareboxes and radios one in the codes will be revised, and any bus can be loaned or transferred at anytime. It’s nowhere as simple as just adding codes. The fareboxes and the radios have to be swapped out as well. The codes are the least of the issues here. Note what I mentioned above. What you are talking about was addressed about 3 years ago and the post-merger MTA will be able to do this. It’s just not possible right now.

That’s just doing waaay too much tho my man. That doesn’t make sense logistically. The 6 and 82+ however need to and should be split out of EN and UP. That was a typo. XE60’s are now confirmed for Quill. ENY for the most part is already artic ready, however the inside of the depot is being redesigned a bit to accommodate them and won’t be ready till next summer.