CTTransit Proposed Service Reductions

[BZGuy]

Well the fare increase and service cuts have finally it CTTransit. All three main divisions have work on the chopping block.

 

Hartford:http://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/SERVICE_REDUCTION_PROPOSALS_HARTFORD.pdf

 

New Haven:http://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/SERVICE_REDUCTION_PROPOSALS_NEW_HAVEN.pdf

 

Stamford:http://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/SERVICE_REDUCTION_PROPOSALS_STAMFORD.pdf

 

Big Stuff is that they want to eliminate holiday service in Hartford and New Haven, but Stamford keeps theirs!:confused:

 

I can speak for the Hartford Division.

 

Express Routes: Some of the Midday Express can go. They weren't being used as I'm shocked they lasted as long as they did, the Welfare to Work money must be all used up. Making the Torrington and Winsted runs one linked trip is asking for trouble, I don't see that one happening....those people are gonna go apes**t when they find out what ConnDOT is trying to do.

 

Local:They want to kill the 44. I will admit ridership is down on that line compared to 5-10 years ago, alot of older folks that took that bus to work have retired or moved out of the area. But you have alot of elderly folks who rely on that line....telling them to walk to the 46 or 42 is wrong. All that will end up happening is that the 46 and 42 will end up running more crowded then they run now. Also artics running on the 42 and possibly the 46 will give those lines the capacity to kill the 44.

 

Headway increase on the 54: People bitched that the buses were always packed and late. Well the artics are here and this is the result....I don't want to hear anymore bitching. The Blue Hills residents did this to themselves.

 

Elimination of the 72F:I agree....that branch of the 72 has been dead for years. Bus ends in nowhere's land and most if not all the folks along Fern St own cars or walk to Farmington Av to catch one of the 60s which run like water compare to the once an hour 72F.

 

Screwing with the 74:The former "S" line 74/44 will need a through route if they cut the 44 end. But I'm not sure if the 63 is the right partner. The 74 is one of those lines that has cover alot of ground and has never been giving the time to run properly. To send it out on the 63 which always runs on time and now has to go to Charter Oak Marketplace is begging for problems that will never be fixed. I can see this line being a drivers nightmare....8hrs with no break. And what they plan to do on Saturday is plain criminal. Cutting 3 trips from the 74 will push those people on the 50 which already is struggling since they screwed with the 92. I would HATE to work the Blue Hills area if these cuts go through.

 

The 86: They been cutting at this line for the last 10 years. Screwing with the times and the routing, trying to make it so unattractive that people won't take the bus anymore. Guess what until somebody blows up Mayberry Village people are gonna take that bus. Cutting Midday service is not gonna affect them as long as they have rush hr service.

 

The 87: The only reason the Saturday service to Founders Plaza was started was because it interlined with the 94/96 and they didn't like seeing the drivers have a 20 min layover downtown. It was busywork....nobody EVER rode those buses....if it doesn't go down CT Blvd then the people have no use for it.

 

I'll let those who know New Haven and Stamford more in depth speak on those cuts.

 

CTTransit is looking more and more like the everyday!

[East New York]

They spent upwards of $10 Million on 5 fuel cell buses. Not sure if that had a major impact or not.....

[BZGuy]

They spent upwards of $10 Million on 5 fuel cell buses. Not sure if that had a major impact or not.....

 

Nah, that money was already budgeted. Since 1990, whenever CTTransit orders new buses they always have to get a couple of "alternative" fueled buses.

 

When the got the MCI Classics in 1990-1992 they had at "AT's 9253-9257 that had different fuel systems then the regular Classics.

 

Then when the New Flyers came in they got 301 & 302 that are Diesel-Electric and now the some of the Nova Artics and New Flyers Xcelsiors are hybreds.

 

Personally I don't know why they are investing in Fuel Cell buses since they can't stay out all day on regular runs, the current Van Hool has small fuel tanks.

 

 

I'm not gonna act like these cuts are anywhere like the Doomsday Cuts in NYC, but some of what they want to do is ridiculous.

[Amtrak7]

Big Stuff is that they want to eliminate holiday service in Hartford and New Haven, but Stamford keeps theirs!:confused:

 

Stamford has no Christmas/Thanksgiving/Easter service.

 

Why Easter? Does demand drop so much? Most transit agencies treat Easter as a normal Sunday...

 

One thing I'm surprised to see is the total elimination of CTTransit-operated Commuter Connection service (2x Stamford, 2x NH). Looks like SLE ridership may decline even more.

 

And $1.35 exact change is going to be really annoying to some.

[qjtransitmaster]

Nah, that money was already budgeted. Since 1990, whenever CTTransit orders new buses they always have to get a couple of "alternative" fueled buses.

 

When the got the MCI Classics in 1990-1992 they had at "AT's 9253-9257 that had different fuel systems then the regular Classics.

 

Then when the New Flyers came in they got 301 & 302 that are Diesel-Electric and now the some of the Nova Artics and New Flyers Xcelsiors are hybreds.

 

Personally I don't know why they are investing in Fuel Cell buses since they can't stay out all day on regular runs, the current Van Hool has small fuel tanks.

 

 

I'm not gonna act like these cuts are anywhere like the Doomsday Cuts in NYC, but some of what they want to do is ridiculous.

 

wow the midday runs on hartford express are so inconvenient no wonder ridership was low. They were scheduled poorly. However I believe 26 should become an intercity bus rather than a commuter run like a kingston,ny to hartford,CT run via rte 199 in dutchess,ny and winstead,ct. The reason why I suggested it was due to a proposal from dutchess loop about that corridor. Why is service on 26 and 27 bad if ridership is high??? Is CTDOT blind??

 

Most of the local cuts however are mild.

[thehartfordboy]

ct dot has been blind for years.

one no sunday service on the 95 in east hartford.

two 83 runs past capacity during midday when mcc is open.

three park st buses are always late because park st is a two way road that cant fit the traffic it has.

four the 92 route is the biggest joke to ct transit. it goes through south windsor for no reason. then it only serve the rural area of hartford instead of the barbour street area and albany avenue area so it can provide a one seat ride for people.

five the fuel cells though is cool and everything dont run all day like the last posts said.

six late nights bus should serve east of the river.

seven cttransit hartford should try to link up or strengthen links with other transit districts like pvta springfield, ct transit waterbury, windham rtd, ct transit meriden, ct transit new haven, and middletown mat by improving service and providing extended routes into these areas. seven get rid of the star shuttle.

nine cut the wethersfield avenue routes to rush hour only and send the broad st bus into old wethersfield and a franklin avenue route to middletown.

eight more shorturn routes and less extended routes during midday.

ten and lastly new britain needs an overhaul on its services.

[qjtransitmaster]

ct dot has been blind for years.

one no sunday service on the 95 in east hartford.

two 83 runs past capacity during midday when mcc is open.

three park st buses are always late because park st is a two way road that cant fit the traffic it has.

four the 92 route is the biggest joke to ct transit. it goes through south windsor for no reason. then it only serve the rural area of hartford instead of the barbour street area and albany avenue area so it can provide a one seat ride for people.

five the fuel cells though is cool and everything dont run all day like the last posts said.

six late nights bus should serve east of the river.

seven cttransit hartford should try to link up or strengthen links with other transit districts like pvta springfield, ct transit waterbury, windham rtd, ct transit meriden, ct transit new haven, and middletown mat by improving service and providing extended routes into these areas. seven get rid of the star shuttle.

nine cut the wethersfield avenue routes to rush hour only and send the broad st bus into old wethersfield and a franklin avenue route to middletown.

eight more shorturn routes and less extended routes during midday.

ten and lastly new britain needs an overhaul on its services.

Ok what kind of overhaul were you thinking up?? I know their regional service is trash

[thehartfordboy]

Ok what kind of overhaul were you thinking up?? I know their regional service is trash

 

 

interlining and more service. and get rid of 35 footers. theyre too little for certain trips. hartford can put those on lower ridership routes like 44, 59, 61, 69, 72, 74, 87 and 94/96 runs. too bad new britain doesnt try to get better service. no sunday runs. now thats ridiculous. even no night shift runs waterbury has sunday service.

[BZGuy]

 

one no sunday service on the 95 in east hartford.

Agree. The 95 needs Sunday service, even if you did a 2 hr headway on Sunday there would be good ridership.

 

two 83 runs past capacity during midday when mcc is open.

I think the 85x should run throughout the day when school is in session. ConnDOT and CTTransit seem to be ignore the fact that there are classes ALL day, not just in the morning. This a big part of the reason the 83c has a problem keeping on schedule.

 

three park st buses are always late because park st is a two way road that cant fit the traffic it has.

Park St has been an issue for years and it has just gotten worse and worse. They need to eliminate parking on one side of the street. I would hate to have to drive a artic on a Park St line.

 

four the 92 route is the biggest joke to ct transit. it goes through south windsor for no reason. then it only serve the rural area of hartford instead of the barbour street area and albany avenue area so it can provide a one seat ride for people.

The 92 is a good route. The South Windsor portion use to go all the way out to East Windsor Hill before cutting over to Buckland Mall, servicing a bunch of the factories along the RT-5 corridor. However the people of S. Windsor complained about the noise of the buses, plus the fear about "undesirable" people being driven through their neighborhood. And lets face it, Tower Av needs a bus that runs along the length of it. If they stop screwing with the routings and times the 92 will be fine.

 

five the fuel cells though is cool and everything dont run all day like the last posts said.

Those buses are gonna end up all on the Star Shuttle...mark my words.

 

six late nights bus should serve east of the river.

There is a lot more east of the river service than when I was a kid, but I agree they could do a better job. The 95 should go all the way into Glastonbury at night, that Main & Brewer deal is just a tease.

 

seven cttransit hartford should try to link up or strengthen links with other transit districts like pvta springfield, ct transit waterbury, windham rtd, ct transit meriden, ct transit new haven, and middletown mat by improving service and providing extended routes into these areas.

Agreed. CTTransit should look to try an link up the entire state like (NJT). The question does anybody at ConnDOT have the motivation to get the ball rolling on that?

 

seven get rid of the star shuttle.

Diasgree. The Star Shuttle is a valuable tool when conventions are in town. I could see cutting it back to only when there is something going on at the Convention Center. Also they need to be a little bit more picky about the drivers who work the Star Shuttle. There are a bunch of guys who jumped on the Star Shuttle because it's a easy run....but they aren't "people" persons. You probably know exactly who I'm talking about.

 

nine cut the wethersfield avenue routes to rush hour only and send the broad st bus into old wethersfield and a franklin avenue route to middletown.

Diasgree. Leave those lines separate. All three of those lines have ontime performance problems and pushing the Wethersfield Av people on the 47 or the 61 will make this worse. Plus you will leave Wetherfield Av with no service during the midday....there are trips that run heavy during midday.

 

eight more shorturn routes and less extended routes during midday.

Depends on which lines your talking about. I'm hesitant to cut back on anything at this point.

 

ten and lastly new britain needs an overhaul on its services.

100% Agree! As a former NBT driver, it's very obvious but everybody in charge has their heads in the sand.

 

interlining and more service. and get rid of 35 footers. theyre too little for certain trips. hartford can put those on lower ridership routes like 44, 59, 61, 69, 72, 74, 87 and 94/96 runs. too bad new britain doesnt try to get better service. no sunday runs. now thats ridiculous. even no night shift runs waterbury has sunday service.

The reason for the 35 footers is because some of the streets NBT and DATTCO operate on are very tight. We had problems when we had the 40 ft New Flyers. I will agree that the DATTCO side of the 41 should have 40 footers though. I also agree that New Britian should get sunday service....the AR,C,FB,BK and OS should run.

 

Personally I want to see less interlining. Ever since the BXs have popped up there have been more problems with ontime performance. This a big reason why morale is low among the driver's group, they are worked like dogs. Whoever's is in scheduling just keeps making the runs tighter and tighter every bid. IMO, the company is trying to turn the passengers against the drivers. Call me paranoid but that's how I see it.

[thehartfordboy]

The 92 is a good route. The South Windsor portion use to go all the way out to East Windsor Hill before cutting over to Buckland Mall, servicing a bunch of the factories along the RT-5 corridor. However the people of S. Windsor complained about the noise of the buses, plus the fear about "undesirable" people being driven through their neighborhood. And lets face it, Tower Av needs a bus that runs along the length of it. If they stop screwing with the routings and times the 92 will be fine.

 

I disagree because many weekend runs go almost unused because it swings all through S. Windsor and only on Tower Avenue in Hartford. Not saying Tower Avenue is not beneficial but it can be modified to serve the greater Northend area with the only loss of service in the Keney Park area where service is dead. And im not sure about the factory service but if it is good then they can run a couple rush hour trips to the factories instead of Buckland Hills. However, all service to S. Windsor center should stop.

 

 

Diasgree. The Star Shuttle is a valuable tool when conventions are in town. I could see cutting it back to only when there is something going on at the Convention Center. Also they need to be a little bit more picky about the drivers who work the Star Shuttle. There are a bunch of guys who jumped on the Star Shuttle because it's a easy run....but they aren't "people" persons. You probably know exactly who I'm talking about.

 

They aren't. What can we do?

[qjtransitmaster]

I disagree because many weekend runs go almost unused because it swings all through S. Windsor and only on Tower Avenue in Hartford. Not saying Tower Avenue is not beneficial but it can be modified to serve the greater Northend area with the only loss of service in the Keney Park area where service is dead. And im not sure about the factory service but if it is good then they can run a couple rush hour trips to the factories instead of Buckland Hills. However, all service to S. Windsor center should stop.

 

 

 

They aren't. What can we do?

 

The 92 is like a crosstown ppl who want those areas you speak of can transfer. The 92's function is to be a crosstown that's it's purpose. Plus ppl who want factories can transfer to 96 once connections are improved then that alone will be good enough.

[BZGuy]

I disagree because many weekend runs go almost unused because it swings all through S. Windsor and only on Tower Avenue in Hartford. Not saying Tower Avenue is not beneficial but it can be modified to serve the greater Northend area with the only loss of service in the Keney Park area where service is dead. And im not sure about the factory service but if it is good then they can run a couple rush hour trips to the factories instead of Buckland Hills. However, all service to S. Windsor center should stop.

 

I could see the 92 routing L-Barbour,R-Westland,R-Vine,R-Coventry (serving the Senior Center) and a L-back onto Tower. That loop would increase ridership. I do agree that service to South Windsor Center is a waste, I would rather see the 92 run down Pleasant Vally Rd to the Buckland Mall area and "timed" transfers (meaning that the 96 does NOT leave until the 92 comes in!) with the 96 at RT-5 and Pleasant Vally so the factory workers still have the option of using the crosstown service.

 

As far as the Star Shuttle drivers....when it first started they interviewed B/Os for those runs which is why it was such a success when it started. Once the Shuttle runs got mixed into the regular bid the original crew got bumped out.

[Shortline Bus]

wow the midday runs on hartford express are so inconvenient no wonder ridership was low. They were scheduled poorly. However I believe 26 should become an intercity bus rather than a commuter run like a kingston,ny to hartford,CT run via rte 199 in dutchess,ny and winstead,ct. The reason why I suggested it was due to a proposal from dutchess loop about that corridor. Why is service on 26 and 27 bad if ridership is high??? Is CTDOT blind??

 

Most of the local cuts however are mild.

 

 

QJtransitmaster with his einstein ideas again. Do you know how long the drive is from Kingston, NY-Hartford driving? Try 2 hours since there 'no highways/interstates' in that area of upper Ducthess/Licthfield/Hartford Counties. Maybe 1-2 'daily' buses connecting by run by say NY trailways or Coach USA but that it.

QJ man 'test drive' the area before making your einstein comments again.

 

I never used the Hartford area CT buses (i been to Hartford before but only drove there)so i not going to comment on it. Maybe on Thanksgiving/Christmas just run 'token service' from say 10am-6pm on couple of the Ct. Captial city's couple of busy lines.

[BZGuy]

QJtransitmaster with his einstein ideas again. Do you know how long the drive is from Kingston, NY-Hartford driving? Try 2 hours since there 'no highways/interstates' in that area of upper Ducthess/Licthfield/Hartford Counties. Maybe 1-2 'daily' buses connecting by run by say NY trailways or Coach USA but that it.

QJ man 'test drive' the area before making your einstein comments again.

 

I left that one alone. That is so far fetched that it's not worth the time to discount. Although I would like to see some kind of service from Hartford to the Albany area, the ridership numbers dictate a transfer in Springfield. The bus will do light business in Litchfield County, most people have cars out there and it would take a act of Congress to get them on a bus.

 

I never used the Hartford area CT buses (i been to Hartford before but only drove there)so i not going to comment on it. Maybe on Thanksgiving/Christmas just run 'token service' from say 10am-6pm on couple of the Ct. Captial city's couple of busy lines.

 

Most Holiday lines run from 7am to 8pm. It's only 10-12 routes.... it's a skeleton service. The cost savings is not having to pay drivers,mechanics and dispatchers Holiday pay and OT.

[Shortline Bus]

I left that one alone. That is so far fetched that it's not worth the time to discount. Although I would like to see some kind of service from Hartford to the Albany area, the ridership numbers dictate a transfer in Springfield. The bus will do light business in Litchfield County, most people have cars out there and it would take a act of Congress to get them on a bus..

 

Very true. Not to get off topic but related to mass transit in NW CT and the Berkshires for minute. Litchfield County and even the Berkshires including Pittsfield, Mass. and Great Barrington, Mass. is car country. I do think there should be expanded connecting bus service from the Metro North station between Wassic in Northern Ducthess to Litchfield and Great Barrington.

Not to mention a daily bus connecting Amtrak's Hudson/Catskill, NY station via route 23 to/from Pittsfield and Great Barrington. That what QJtrainsitmaster should be proposing. Beyond that is a waste.

 

Right now on summer weekends only there '1 trip roundtrip(friday nights from NYC) and (sunday nights to NYC via Wassic) to as much as 2-3 trips on weekends at least from March-November. And '1' round trip during the winter weather permitting for those who want to go to ski.

[thehartfordboy]

The 92 is like a crosstown ppl who want those areas you speak of can transfer. The 92's function is to be a crosstown that's it's purpose. Plus ppl who want factories can transfer to 96 once connections are improved then that alone will be good enough.

 

True but it should be synchronized with 96 n run through the lower blue hills and northend area to pick up customers and provide a one seat trip to south windsor.

[BZGuy]

Very true. Not to get off topic but related to mass transit in NW CT and the Berkshires for minute. Litchfield County and even the Berkshires including Pittsfield, Mass. and Great Barrington, Mass. is car country. I do think there should be expanded connecting bus service from the Metro North station between Wassic in Northern Ducthess to Litchfield and Great Barrington.

Not to mention a daily bus connecting Amtrak's Hudson/Catskill, NY station via route 23 to/from Pittsfield and Great Barrington. That what QJtrainsitmaster should be proposing. Beyond that is a waste.

 

Right now on summer weekends only there '1 trip roundtrip(friday nights from NYC) and (sunday nights to NYC via Wassic) to as much as 2-3 trips on weekends at least from March-November. And '1' round trip during the winter weather permitting for those who want to go to ski.

 

 

Bonanza runs two trips a day from NY to the "Valley" via Caanan,Sheffield,Great Barrington,Stockbridge,Lee,Lenox,Pittsfield into Willamstown. It gets decent ridership

[thehartfordboy]

Good news 85x mcc flyer is now running all day, though it still needs rush hour service.

[qjtransitmaster]

QJtransitmaster with his einstein ideas again. Do you know how long the drive is from Kingston, NY-Hartford driving? Try 2 hours since there 'no highways/interstates' in that area of upper Ducthess/Licthfield/Hartford Counties. Maybe 1-2 'daily' buses connecting by run by say NY trailways or Coach USA but that it.

QJ man 'test drive' the area before making your einstein comments again.

 

I never used the Hartford area CT buses (i been to Hartford before but only drove there)so i not going to comment on it. Maybe on Thanksgiving/Christmas just run 'token service' from say 10am-6pm on couple of the Ct. Captial city's couple of busy lines.

I only proposed that based on a service proposal by dutchess loop to improve bus service. In their future service enhancements a rte 199 rte was included so that was why I came up with the idea to simply merge that rte with winstead 26 rather than make an entirely new rte that will link with the trailways intercity bus network.

Very true. Not to get off topic but related to mass transit in NW CT and the Berkshires for minute. Litchfield County and even the Berkshires including Pittsfield, Mass. and Great Barrington, Mass. is car country. I do think there should be expanded connecting bus service from the Metro North station between Wassic in Northern Ducthess to Litchfield and Great Barrington.

Not to mention a daily bus connecting Amtrak's Hudson/Catskill, NY station via route 23 to/from Pittsfield and Great Barrington. That what QJtrainsitmaster should be proposing. Beyond that is a waste.

 

Right now on summer weekends only there '1 trip roundtrip(friday nights from NYC) and (sunday nights to NYC via Wassic) to as much as 2-3 trips on weekends at least from March-November. And '1' round trip during the winter weather permitting for those who want to go to ski.

way ahead of you already beat you to it in my NYS intercity proposal I am working on the shortline middletown/newburgh line is enhanced to every 90 mins then extended to great barrington via rte 9W then poughkeepsie then via rte 44 alternating with a LOOP bus between poughkeepsie and pleasant valley providing 45 min service on the rte 44 corridor between those points. Then beyond millbrook the SL line will link with wassiac harlem line and the 26 intercity kingston-hartford line at millerton. There will be timed transfers with the 26 kingston hartford line so ppl on the 199 corridor can reach great barrington and ppl on rte 44 can reach winstead and hartford. Of course this is only a piece of my intercity plan which will replace many rural buses in central NYS with intercity lines with 4 to 10 trips depending on the rte made and will be daily not tuesday or 3 times a week bullshit. Plus from NYC bonanza has direct service from NYC to the barringtons without need for metro-north!!!!!!!!!

[qjtransitmaster]

True but it should be synchronized with 96 n run through the lower blue hills and northend area to pick up customers and provide a one seat trip to south windsor.

 

again I will side with BZguy just time the transfers and call it done it's a CROSSTOWN UNDERSTAND THAT!!!!!!!!! MEANING IT'S A TRANSFER HEAVY LINE.

[thehartfordboy]

again I will side with BZguy just time the transfers and call it done it's a CROSSTOWN UNDERSTAND THAT!!!!!!!!! MEANING IT'S A TRANSFER HEAVY LINE.

 

Wrong! it is the exact opposite. ct transits crosstowns were always meant to provide a one stop ride for people instead of going all the way downtown for transfer. thus why not loop thru the northend?

[qjtransitmaster]

Wrong! it is the exact opposite. ct transits crosstowns were always meant to provide a one stop ride for people instead of going all the way downtown for transfer. thus why not loop thru the northend?

 

adds too much time you will piss ppl off

[thehartfordboy]

adds too much time you will piss ppl off

 

no going thru south windsor for 30 mins on the weekend just to get to buckland hills pisses ppl off. just saying cut fatty south windsor portion. its no use esp on the weekend. go express from buckland to wilson's pizza in windsor would be better. tower av then go down barbour st then over to greenfield st, stop at albany & woodland, race up blue hills avenue back to tower avenue. itll work out well.

[qjtransitmaster]

no going thru south windsor for 30 mins on the weekend just to get to buckland hills pisses ppl off. just saying cut fatty south windsor portion. its no use esp on the weekend. go express from buckland to wilson's pizza in windsor would be better. tower av then go down barbour st then over to greenfield st, stop at albany & woodland, race up blue hills avenue back to tower avenue. itll work out well.

 

will this decrease travel time

[BZGuy]

no going thru south windsor for 30 mins on the weekend just to get to buckland hills pisses ppl off. just saying cut fatty south windsor portion. its no use esp on the weekend. go express from buckland to wilson's pizza in windsor would be better. tower av then go down barbour st then over to greenfield st, stop at albany & woodland, race up blue hills avenue back to tower avenue. itll work out well.

 

I think that would add more time to the run. Thinking more about this, I would run the 92 down Barbour,Westland,Garden (if they cut the 44,this will replace the service),Albany to Blue Hills back to regular routing. I think that can be done in the current allotted time.

 

As far as the the South Windsor routing....like I said earlier, I would still send the 92s into S. Windsor but I would change the routing to run down Plesant Valley to allow connections with the 96. Having the 92 run express from Wilson to Buckland Mall will screw anybody trying to get to RT-5 from the North End, and there are people who need that service.