How fast is the CPW express?

[TheSubwayStation]

Thanks, TwoTimer. Can you tell me anything about the new timers s/b on the coming into Canal St? At least I thought they were new. Are they to protect the switches south of Canal?

[Fan Railer]

In the case of 23st, the timers are there to protect excessive speed over the switch, yes the A in fact goes thru a switch north of a station, its a slight turn out either way (to the left for the spur, to the right for mainline). Its a 25mph switch either direction. They timers continue until the entire train is through the switch. Ironically, no such timers exist s/b even though train is already in excess of 30mph by time it hits the switch (a turn in). T/O's are taught in school car (now, I don't know about back in the day so dont ask me) to not have the train on the post entering that switch area but that's obviously ignored, its about blasting into 14th at 40+ and taking brake in the station itself.

 

I remember back when the R38s were still on the , we hit 40 right after going southbound over that switch before 23rd.

 

 

Thanks, TwoTimer. Can you tell me anything about the new timers s/b on the coming into Canal St? At least I thought they were new. Are they to protect the switches south of Canal?

 

Why would timers before a station be there to protect switches after the station? And yes, they are relatively new (at least they weren't there 2-3 years ago as I remember it).

[TheSubwayStation]

Why would timers before a station be there to protect switches after the station? And yes, they are relatively new (at least they weren't there 2-3 years ago as I remember it).

 

The signal system doesn't know if the train is stopping, e.g. if it's told to skip the station or the T/O is drunk or falls asleep...I think there are other parts of the system where trains have to slow before a station because of hazards after the station.

 

 

As far as other areas where grade time is removed are along CPW going into and out of 72nd spur

 

Wait a second, then why do s/b and trains always slow down for timers at 81 St?

[TwoTimer]

The signal system doesn't know if the train is stopping, e.g. if it's told to skip the station or the T/O is drunk or falls asleep...I think there are other parts of the system where trains have to slow before a station because of hazards after the station.

 

 

Wait a second, then why do s/b and trains always slow down for timers at 81 St?

 

There's a switch for the 72nd spur (although its called as such, its not actually in 72nd, but in between 72nd and 81 in both directions). I guess its called that since it appears closed to 72nd on the tower board, and is the last station you go by northbound before entering for the majority of yards that hold misc equipment (CI and 38st).

 

The line is unique, there were lots of instances of t/o's overrunning fast stations (of which there were many on the , so timers were put in to slow entry to these locations although the existing signal system sufficed with stopping distances (if a switch existed at the other end). Some are newer than others. Of course railfans hate this idea, as while it has decreased instances of station overruns, it hurts "numbers" of these legendary fast runs on what used to be the fastest line in the system (not in terms of pure numbers, but the consistency of speed throughout). This is a rundown of said "high incident areas." Some have my comments as to why they should be adjusted and removed. Of course you can observe all of these for yourself on one of the many R32/R42 that's running on the line now. I'm not even going to mention those on the local track, since "local" is not too important to railfans.

 

1. s/b entering Canal St. Two shot GT35. It's not to protect the switch as station time exists in the station. T/O's used to overrun Canal s/b (and hit the home signal at the leaving end if it wasn't already clear). Without the timer one can still enter 40+. This timer is fine as it does clear near 35. However, nobody takes it at 35 because if the station isn't clear (which it often is not if a is crossing or have just crossed over), you WILL (not may, but WILL) hit the station timers inside of Canal itself. As you know, Canal is after a slight bend and a T/O cannot see whether the station is clear when they enter the timed area. A glare on the rail which becomes evident as train enters the two shot area will answer this question. Taking it at 25-30 will allow a train to stop outside the station if the station isn't clear. I understand why this is here, I just wish the station would actually be clear and lined up for the to proceed south more often (too many times I have to stop the train and alert WTC to let me in the station).

 

2. s/b entering Fulton St. Two shots of GT25. These clear near posted, enforcing the 25mph on the curve.

 

3. s/b leaving High St. One shot GT25. Clears at 17mph. They decided to put it here so trains aren't roaring into Jay 35+ like they used to, they can only get up to around 30 or so. The s/b end of Jay is downhill, and will push a late braking T/O out the station. There is no reason for this timer to be here, that's just bad operation if an operator goes out of Jay.

 

4. s/b express outside of Nostrand. Two shot GT35 followed by a two shot GT30. This is the railfan nostalgia favorite when R32's go on the line. They never activated the GT30, so it appears from a RFW as only one set of timers. It clears on the post, rumor has it it will clear at 60mph (of course a regular revenue train can't approach that speed). This is TA's response to the high-incident Nostrand where there have been hosts of overruns. I don't take this on the post even though I can because railfans won't sit on the bench with me at 2 Bway if they tweak the timer to only clear at 35. I take it at 35 then wrap it on back up and brake inside of the station. If you take this on the post you MUST brake hard by the head of the station otherwise you will not make the station. I've tried it on the post, and it only was 2/3 the way thru did I see I was going to make the station. You can enter it as high as 47 with a good train on the post. Again, this timer isn't needed, but its smoke and mirrors anyway.

 

5. s/b express outside of Utica. Two shot GT35. Clears at 35, another high incident station, has nothing to do with the switch on the other end. The big sign at Nostrand warning T/O's about Utica is still there at the south end. I feel that with field shunting gone, this doesn't have to be here, while you can still enter fast, its not like you can enter in the mid 40s like you used to (high 30s is more like it).

 

6. s/b express outside of Bway Jnct. Two shots GT20. First one clears at 16, 2nd at 20. Again people used to overrun Bway Junction (somehow, its slower than Utica and Nostrand) and that's a nono when MOST the people in the first car is trying to get off there.

 

7. s/b at Grand Av. One shot GT15. Protects the switch between Euclid and Grand, which many T/O's ignore the D20. Understandable, but if its purpose is to protect that switch, it has to clear at 20, not at 9mph.

[TwoTimer]

And northbound (more useless timers)

 

1. n/b express inside of Bway Jnct. One shot of GT20. Clears at 15. Supposingly protecting the switch outside the station, but you are going uphill and can barely enter above 20. This one is heralded as the most useless timer on the , although others come close.

 

2. n/b express inside of Utica. Two shot of GT30. Clears at 25. Again people used to overrun Utica n/b too. It's not to protect the switch at the north end of the station, as you can't even enter the station if the switch is reversed.

 

3. n/b inside of Jay. Two shot of GT20. Clears at 20. This enforces the 20mpg curve between Jay and Hoyt.

 

4. n/b outside of High. Two shot of GT20. Clears at 17. The useless s/b High St timer has a brother, although this one has more use. People used to overrun High as well as its deceptively fast and looks longer than it is. The curve is a 31mph curve. This timer is too slow, it indeed should be a GT30. However, the signals on that curve is too close together for GT30, that's why its GT20. But the timer's location is erroneous, they could have tied the entering signal and the one in the middle of the station and made those two a two shot GT30 and it would have been much more effective.

 

5. n/b outside of Canal. Two shots of GT35. Again clears at 35, but as is the case with s/b, cant see the station, and if the station is not clear, you will hit the red entering the station. Yes T/Os in the past have overrun Canal n/b too. It must be taken less than 30 to comfortably stop outside of Canal.

 

6. n/b express outside of 50th. Two shot of GT20. A slow timer that is completely useless. It doesnt protect the switch below entering 59-CC as when that switch is reverse the timing element isn't even in effect. This has no need to be there, as there are numerous one shots inside of 59 itself (that progressively get slower) that protect the switch if its reversed.

[Dan05979]

You become TSS don't ever ride my train.

[TheSubwayStation]

It would seem like the timers at Canal St don't really make a difference as the train slows down anyway because of visibility concerns. I was on a s/b R46 train yesterday; it stopped just before Canal St while a train was switching. So, does the always have to wait outside of the station while a train is passing over the switch?

 

Do all of the timers on the bother you, or do you think they don't make as much of a difference as railfans think? Because some people would probably see this and think, "I'm taking the from now on instead."

[TwoTimer]

You become TSS don't ever ride my train.

 

I wouldn't even come in the cab. Name, pass, and have a nice day. Yes I'm one of those types.

 

It would seem like the timers at Canal St don't really make a difference as the train slows down anyway because of visibility concerns. I was on a s/b R46 train yesterday; it stopped just before Canal St while a train was switching. So, does the always have to wait outside of the station while a train is passing over the switch?

 

Do all of the timers on the bother you, or do you think they don't make as much of a difference as railfans think? Because some people would probably see this and think, "I'm taking the from now on instead."

 

 

Yes, if the tower (WTC in this case) doesn't manually give a lineup to come in (under slow station timers), you have to wait till the compleves the crossover and the switch is normaled, and STILL WTC must give a train a lineup into the station, but it won't be on time anymore being that the switch is normal. got their share of timers as well from Canal to Fulton.

[Fan Railer]

You become TSS don't ever ride my train.

 

I would probably love fanning on your train XD

[Dan05979]

@ Two Timer, You know your stuff, Alot of know it all TSS's would be breaking chops the whole ride down. You can deffinetly come in my cab anytime.

 

I would probably love fanning on your train XD

 

 

His or mine?

[TheSubwayStation]

I would probably love fanning on your train XD

 

I'd love to ride TwoTimer's train one time, too. He seems like a good, knowledgeable T/O who not only knows how fast he can go but cares about safety and comfort. He's not one of those speed freaks who thinks he's got a train full of railfans on board...

[TheSubwayStation]

Here's some information about the CPW express that some of you might want to know:

 

My speed calculations

[Fan Railer]

Here's some information about the CPW express that some of you might want to know:

 

My speed calculations

Interesting stuff. But you don't really need to calculate the train speeds on the R32s. The speedometer is clearly visible through the cab door hinges, even at a respectable distance away from the door.

[TheSubwayStation]

Interesting stuff. But you don't really need to calculate the train speeds on the R32s. The speedometer is clearly visible through the cab door hinges, even at a respectable distance away from the door.

 

Yes, but I was getting the information from an RFW video on youtube; usually when I ride the subway myself I don't try to figure out the speed. Additionally, a lot of people say that the SMEE speedos are inaccurate.

[Fan Railer]

Yes, but I was getting the information from an RFW video on youtube; usually when I ride the subway myself I don't try to figure out the speed. Additionally, a lot of people say that the SMEE speedos are inaccurate.

 

They're a lot more inaccurate on the R62A's from what I've experienced. I've never had a B division SMEE speedo act up on me while I was observing it. On the other hand, you have the R62A's on the with their speedos sporadically going up to 99 and then coming back down to zero lol.

[GojiMet86]

They're a lot more inaccurate on the R62A's from what I've experienced. I've never had a B division SMEE speedo act up on me while I was observing it. On the other hand, you have the R62A's on the with their speedos sporadically going up to 99 and then coming back down to zero lol.

 

 

Heh, I've seen one like that. I was like, WTF?!

[TwoTimer]

I had a R32 the other day which posted numbers about 3-4mph faster than what we were actually going. I finally caught on midtrip when I saw we were slowly losing time and timers were clearing way too quickly given the posted mph on the meter.

[NX Express]

I had a R32 the other day which posted numbers about 3-4mph faster than what we were actually going. I finally caught on midtrip when I saw we were slowly losing time and timers were clearing way too quickly given the posted mph on the meter.

 

What did it show when you were stopped at a station?

[TheSubwayStation]

I had a R32 the other day which posted numbers about 3-4mph faster than what we were actually going. I finally caught on midtrip when I saw we were slowly losing time and timers were clearing way too quickly given the posted mph on the meter.

 

Do you mean that the speedometers on most R32s are accurate to the exact MPH?

[TwoTimer]

No, I meant that particular one was not accurate at all, it was saying I was going 3-4mph faster than I was going.