Should NICE consider restructuring the layout of the remaining network?

[NY1635]

There are connecting traffic to the n6 from Hempstead, if we could convince some of these riders n6 wouldn't be as crowded

 

Hempstead is both a densely populated village and a major transfer point linking many bus lines to other parts of Nassau County. How would NICE convince people who live close near the n6 to change their riding habits when the alternatives are a mere 20-30 minute bus ride away? Or better how is NICE going to get people who come off the to walk over all the way to 181-182street from 179th for the n22/n24 to Hicksville when the Nassau bound n6 is just right near the entrance to the subway?

[Mtatransit]

Hempstead is both a densely populated village and a major transfer point linking many bus lines to other parts of Nassau County. How would NICE convince people who live close near the n6 to change their riding habits when the alternatives are a mere 20-30 minute bus ride away? Or better how is NICE going to get people who come off the to walk over all the way to 181-182street from 179th for the n22/n24 to Hicksville when the Nassau bound n6 is just right near the entrance to the subway?

 

I was referring to people who connect with the n6 at Hempstead going to Jamaica could probably take the LIRR from Hempstead rather than transfer to the n6X at Hempstead (people coming from n55,n41, or n70s), therefore leaving space for people at Franklin Square and Elmont. While I know this will never happen (NICE/MTA wont cooperate) it will help increase ridership on the underutilized Hempstead Branch. 2) Most people take the and transfer at 169 St. What I know is that at one end of the station is where n22/24 stop is, and at the other end is the n6 stop, so if your in the middle, it really doesn't matter                                      

[NY1635]

I was referring to people who connect with the n6 at Hempstead going to Jamaica could probably take the LIRR from Hempstead rather than transfer to the n6X at Hempstead (people coming from n55,n41, or n70s), therefore leaving space for people at Franklin Square and Elmont. While I know this will never happen (NICE/MTA wont cooperate) it will help increase ridership on the underutilized Hempstead Branch. 2) Most people take the and transfer at 169 St. What I know is that at one end of the station is where n22/24 stop is, and at the other end is the n6 stop, so if your in the middle, it really doesn't matter                                      

 

The people connecting to the n6 from another bus at the Transit Center are usually coming from or going to places near it like NCC, RFM, Nassau Coliseum, Roosevelt, Freeport, Uniondale, or Baldwin. They're not going to cross W.Columbia Street for a branch of the LIRR that runs hourly to Atlantic Terminal when the n6 to Jamaica runs every 10 minutes and is right across the Bay at the terminal.

[Mtatransit]

The people connecting to the n6 from another bus at the Transit Center are usually coming from or going to places near it like NCC, RFM, Nassau Coliseum, Roosevelt, Freeport, Uniondale, or Baldwin. They're not going to cross W.Columbia Street for a branch of the LIRR that runs hourly to Atlantic Terminal when the n6 to Jamaica runs every 10 minutes and is right across the Bay at the terminal.

If the fares are cheaper, maybe some people will give the railroad a try. When they come out with freedom ticket in Nassau (Free transfer between Train and bus and cheaper train fare transferring from bus) more people will take the train.

[NY1635]

If the fares are cheaper, maybe some people will give the railroad a try. When they come out with freedom ticket in Nassau (Free transfer between Train and bus and cheaper train fare transferring from bus) more people will take the train.

 

The freedom ticket will never come in Nassau mostly because there's no money for it. The County doesn't want to use taxpayer money to subsidize LIRR fares and the State doesn't want to subsidize Nassau County's transportation.

[RES2773]

As most of us on this board are aware, NICE has been shedding ridership not just because of the service cuts and inconsistent service quality, but also because of the outdated design of the network. Many places that were once large ridership draws, such as Sunrise Mall and office parks, are no longer generating much demand, while other places, especially low-income areas and New York City, are still healthy in terms of ridership. Other cities, such as Houston, Columbus, and Baltimore, have, or are in the process of, restructuring their networks to reflect current ridership patterns.

 

While I am aware that NICE probably doesn't have the money to do a study on this, I believe that it would help to save money in the long-run, as well as stem the network's ridership decline. Some ideas that I had (sorted by route), are as follows. PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS BASED UPON CURRENT SERVICE LEVELS, AND THE ASSUMPTION THAT NICE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REVIVE PREVIOUSLY ELIMINATED SERVICE IN MOST CASES (such as the n36 or Saturday n16 service):

 

n1:

Change the route's southern terminus from Grant Park to the intersection of Broadway & W. Broadway, and reroute the bus down Gibson Rd. and Harris Ave. south of the Gibson train station. This would create a southern terminal with more ridership potential (Hewlett has a Trader Joe's, for example), and would reduce travel time slightly for many riders on the n1 south of Green Acres, who use it to transfer to/from the n31/32 for service to Far Rockaway.

 

n6/n6x:

Re-introduce all previously-eliminated N6 Limited stops as n6x stops, and reduce late night frequencies on n6 service to every 45 minutes.

 

n15:

Eliminate County Seat Drive service, since there are very few intermediate riders on that section (at least from my experience), and reroute those trips down Clinton Road. I would also re-time trips so that they don't arrive and depart HTC at the same times that n31/32 trips do. This would create more frequent service for riders in Hempstead and parts of West Hempstead, as south of West Hempstead LIRR, many people live within walking distance of both routes.

 

n20G/n20H:

No changes would occur to n20G service. n20H service, on the other hand, will be reduced to every hour midday weekdays.

 

n21:

This route would be restructured significantly. It would follow the current alignment of the n20H from Great Neck LIRR to Glen Cove Rd., then follow the route of the n27 up to Glen Cove. This would increase the catchment area of the route, since much of the current alignment runs along the water. To compensate for the reduction of midday service on the n20H, midday service would be reintroduced on the n21, and timed so that Northern Bvld. retains half-hourly service between Great Neck and Greenvale.

 

n23:

Extend service to Hempstead via Washington Street. This would give direct access, as well as more frequent service, for riders heading to/from places such as Roslyn and Port Washington.

 

n27:

Re-routed via the current n23 route from Mineola to Roslyn. Both services would be timed so combined frequencies on this section would be half-hourly midday. While some riders would need to walk a bit further if they get on/off along Roslyn Road, others will now have easier access to things such as the LIRR and Winthrop Hospital.

 

n31/n32:

Reduce Saturday service to every 30 minutes combined.

 

n35:

Eliminate the weekend alignment via Stewart Avenue, so that all trips on weekends service NCC, as well as extending weekday trips that terminate at Hempstead to NCC during school periods.

 

n54/n55:

Eliminate the n54, and convert all n54 trips into n55 trips.

 

n57:

Rebrand the route as "Great Neck Community Shuttle" and replace buses with minibuses.

 

n70/n71/n72:

No changes to the n70 or n72, but n71 service would be rerouted to run via Merritts Road and Broadway, instead of via Carmans Road, which serves an area that is served by the S1 bus, which has better frequencies. This would also open up more areas for ridership.

 

Mercy Medical Shuttle:

Extend to Park Avenue and Merrick Road, and re-time service so that combined frequencies with the n16 are roughly every 15 minutes.

 

Elmont Flexi:

Eliminate all deviations besides LIJ Valley Stream, and reroute service to operate via Rockaway Parkway.

 

I like most of what you are saying. Ever since the n23 was rerouted to serve Mineola intermodal at all times, it has been a pain. But if it goes to Hempstead, that'd be great. And the n57 shuttle is brilliant. However, I think the one place you are very wrong is with the n27. The bus travels through some VERY rich areas between the areas you mentioned. And since the n22A was eliminated, that route would have no service at all. For people that already walk fairly long distances east from the n27, that's just insult to injury. Also, not related to what you said, but eliminating weekend service was a mistake on that route. When I went on the bus on the weekends, that route always had at least 3/4 of the seats filled.

 

 

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[Gotham Bus Co.]

While I am aware that NICE probably doesn't have the money to do a study on this, I believe that it would help to save money in the long-run, as well as stem the network's ridership decline. 

 

The key is to petition the County legislature to allow (i.e. fund) such a study.  

[Axis]

n1 -- If there's enough people who transfer between the n1 & n6 at Elmont Road & Hempstead Turnpike when the n1 isn't running to/from Jamaica...or if the n6 could use some help between Jamaica & Elmont, extending more trips on the n1 to start/end at Jamaica (even just weekdays) couldn't hurt. Alternatively, make the Rush Hour only portion of the n1 route between Jamaica & Elmont bi-directional, rather than peak direction.

n16 -- Considering there used to be Saturday service which was eliminated within the past year or so, I do have to wonder...is there enough of a demand/ridership to re-instate Saturday service? Even if it's just a single bus going back & forth between RF & RVC.

n19 -- Right now, this route only has weekday Rush Hour service. Perhaps add a few midday trips to fill in the gap in service, assuming the demand is there.

n20L -- As a frequent user of the n20G/H, it's definitely stressful having to board an n20G at Flushing, hoping it shows up on time, or not too late to the point of having to miss the n20H connection at around Great Neck. And ever since the split, people almost always transfer between buses along Northern Boulevard, not wanting to take chance of potentially missing a connection by remaining on the bus until it reaches Great Neck LIRR (understandable unless you're on an interline trip pair that simply emulates the old n20 routing). As of late, I've noticed that if you attempt to ride an n20H towards Hicksville during the PM rush hour, traffic builds up quite badly in downtown Roslyn (typically along Remsen Avenue & Bryant Avenue, right in the path of the eastbound n20H/n21 routing). As a result, a typical 30-40 minute ride from Great Neck to one of the few colleges in Old Westbury could become nearly twice as long if done at the wrong time. As an idea, reinstate bi-directional rush hour service on the n20L, to supplement the current n20G/H & n21 scope of service, even if it's just 3-4 round trips in the morning, and 3-4 trips in the afternoon.

n22 -- I can't recall exactly (or I could just be imagining this), but I think there was an n22X trip that would leave Hicksville at around 6 PM sharp, but that it was eliminated, leaving what seems to be a 40 minute gap in n22 departures out of Hicksville between the 5:39 & 6:20 departures (and that's assuming neither trip is late or goes missing). Considering the frequency in n22 departures out of Hicksville before & after this eyesore of a gap in service, one solution could be to eliminate the 6:28 & 6:49 n22 trips starting at RF, and simply have one n22 trip leave Hicksville at 6:00 PM. Leaving the RF short turns & adding this 6:00 trip would create redundancy, so this is really more of a balancing approach more than anything.

n26 -- Recently, service has been expanded from a few trips from Jamaica to Great Neck in the morning, and a few trips from Great Neck to Jamaica in the afternoon, into a more developed bi-directional rush hour scope of service, with a lot more trips overall. With this said, if ridership over time on this new n26 scope of service shows that these trips are actually being put to good used (and not just being very light or even empty in some sections of the routing it "shares" with the n22/25), then if there is enough of a demand for it, the next step could be to add midday service too (even just hourly), potentially turning the n26 from a seemingly eliminable route, to a full blown full-time route.

n27 -- I've been looking around, and I can tell a lot of us aren't happy with weekend service on this route being eliminated (seeing how much service it had in general). So let's meet in the middle. Reinstate weekend service on the n27, but not so much of it (because realistically, the budget's tight enough as-is). Perhaps a headway of 90 minutes, or even just 120 minutes would do?

Pretty much anything pertaining to Merrick, Bellmore, and Wantagh -- Over the course of the past two years, we've seen every single north-to-south route east of the n41/43, and west of the n80 get eliminated. More specifically, the n45, n46, n47, n50, n51, n73, and n74. Right now, all that's left is the n19 (which only has weekday rush hour service as it stands), the n54/55, and the n70/71/72. But then you have this void in the middle. What's that? Something called LINK? *checks NICE website, does Google searching* Huh...that's odd. I could've sworn that was a thing they tried to roll out. So apparently LINK was an idea that was pulled even before it could've been tested out. Well now what? Uber? LIRR? Giving up & just moving out of (or not traveling to) Nassau County altogether until goodness knows when a full reversal happens (which would be a miracle)?

I wanna hear what you guys have to say on this manner. Should any of the eliminated Bellmore/Merrick/Wantagh routes be reinstated? Which one(s) (even if it's just one of them)? If not...why not? Have Nassau County's demographics truly changed to the point that these routes are no longer needed? Or is the potential demand/ridership still there, and that all is needed is enough funding/budget/support/approval to get even just a single bus running on even just one of these routes (just for the sake of network coverage)? Heck, maybe we don't even need the additional funding. We could potentially free up even just a single bus to resurrect a whole route with, by reducing service/frequency where it isn't needed. (Example: Reducing weekday headways on the n20H during rush hours & middays. From my experience, a 15-30 minute frequency on this route has been resulting in 5-10, maybe 15 people on the bus at once, particularly east of Roslyn. Superfluous much?).