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metsfan

PATH: An historic journey

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Just some fun sites to read with tons of good info on its history, plans that did or did not make it into reality, function of various remaining but unused structures etc etc.

 

http://www.jclandmarks.org/history-hmrr.shtml

 

http://www.hudsoncity.net/tubesenglish/1-constructionhistory.html

 

http://www.hudsoncity.net/tubesenglish/2-constructiondescription.html

 

Hope you found these pages as interesting as i did!

 

- A

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They wanted to have 2 more terminals, one in manhattan, and one connecting to CRRNJ!

 

- A

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Nice stuff

There were proposals BACK THEN to build an elaborate terminal at Union Square for New Jersey trains, I believe that was from the Hudson Tubes

 

They also wanted to build tubes to CRRNJ.

 

- A

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They also wanted to build tubes to CRRNJ.

 

- A

 

Yeah, but I remember seeing a picture of plan for a grand railway terminal under Union Square for New Jersey trains

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They also wanted to build tubes to CRRNJ.

 

- A

 

You have to wonder if those plans ever did go into affect would they have shut down the PATH station there as well when the Aldene plan went into affect? Nice sites thanks for sharing!

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You have to wonder if those plans ever did go into affect would they have shut down the PATH station there as well when the Aldene plan went into affect? Nice sites thanks for sharing!

 

I think that if H&M went there, ridership would have increased on the CRRNJ. The current WTC station is a block west of the original station and head offices. Those buildings no longer exist. The tracks may still be there.

 

As for the bankruptcy of the major roads, they should have done something different to aline the tracks, without cutting out the main line connection to communipaw terminal.

 

Oh, another bit of slightly related info. During ww1, the now filled in area of LSP was actually water in between 2 long earthen piers. The southern end had an island called Black Tom. At the time, the military kept a munitions depot (including black powder for warships). Something ignited one of the storage warehouses, and one of the biggest explosions in recorded history resulted. The explosion sent shrapnel in a 7 mile radius, some of which damaged the arm support structure in the statue of liberty. Shortly after the arm was closed to visitors, never to re-open.

 

- A

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Cool info on LSP! As for what would have happened to the CNJ regarding the Aldene plan had the PATH been there? I can't think of a scenario where things would have played out differently as NJDOT who was funding everything would probably have dropped a waterfront terminal anyhow, if the PATH had been there it might have made more of an argument to keep it open but I'm still not sure it could beat out Hoboken as Hoboken is better suited near populations. I just wish there was an extension of the HBLR that went into the old terminal, it could be operated in the peak months only or something but that is just a dream.

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Cool info on LSP! As for what would have happened to the CNJ regarding the Aldene plan had the PATH been there? I can't think of a scenario where things would have played out differently as NJDOT who was funding everything would probably have dropped a waterfront terminal anyhow, if the PATH had been there it might have made more of an argument to keep it open but I'm still not sure it could beat out Hoboken as Hoboken is better suited near populations. I just wish there was an extension of the HBLR that went into the old terminal, it could be operated in the peak months only or something but that is just a dream.

 

I am pretty sure those old NCS PCC's will go on a vintage line from a new terminal at LSP station on the HBLR, and may either go out to communipaw terminal, it may just go out to the black tom area mentioned above.

 

As far as track alignments... The RVL would have terminated at communipaw, a well as some coast line trains as well as trains originating on the line that ran between little falls and morristown. Traffic could have been divided between hoboken, NYP, and communipaw (cmp) with H&M/PATH providing connecting service. Now non-passenger served lines would have remained in service. former DL&W/Erie lines could go to hoboken, the PRR line could go to nyp, the CRRNJ lines could run to communipaw. I think this would be better situated for the current demand, and the fact that the 2 tracks to NYP are at capacity.

 

The cross-over at elizabeth could have been a transfer, have SEC be a transfer as well so you have a 100% integrated system.

 

- A

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I am pretty sure those old NCS PCC's will go on a vintage line from a new terminal at LSP station on the HBLR, and may either go out to communipaw terminal, it may just go out to the black tom area mentioned above.

Yeah ok, like with what funds and LSP developmental plans.

 

The PCCs are meant to go to Bayonne for some waterfront service whenever they get that ready.

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Yeah ok, like with what funds and LSP developmental plans.

 

The PCCs are meant to go to Bayonne for some waterfront service whenever they get that ready.

 

I meant the other end of the line, not the end that goes down to the shopping center area. :P

 

I found a PDF somewhere, i'll post a link if i can find it again. I do know they are to be used there in nj as you said, likely going to be restored at brookville's workshop in PA.

 

Also, the probability of it being used for the cape liberty cruise port is high, because the rail line ends right there. I guess we'll have to see.

 

- A

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The plan as far as i've read in various proposals calls for the PCC cars to run from the current LSP station with a possible added platform, down to like where frank cinema theater is, with possible extensions to comminipaw and the cruise terminal.

 

I mean some of these proposals may not have been officially submitted or survived past the first round of requirements etc, so it's still in the works, not finalized, so we may see a line that goes between LSP and the 2 branches of that freight line that turn out to the east. Obviously the turnouts would have to be re-tracked and stuff, but yea, it's not finalized as far as i know into a solid plan yet.

 

The one turnout to the cruise terminal would be best elevated vs where it is now crossing 169/440. This way you can keep the freight line if you want to use it without conditions. They could also run a line across the old slipway to where frank cinema etc shopping center is.

 

Sorry if my post was confused or confusing, i was having a bad sinus cold throwing my memory off.

 

If you have any added info please share as i'm eager to learn more about what they are trying to do there, especially since as you know i go there ~every other week to see my woman! :P

 

- A

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The plan as far as i've read in various proposals calls for the PCC cars to run from the current LSP station with a possible added platform, down to like where frank cinema theater is, with possible extensions to comminipaw and the cruise terminal.

 

I mean some of these proposals may not have been officially submitted or survived past the first round of requirements etc, so it's still in the works, not finalized, so we may see a line that goes between LSP and the 2 branches of that freight line that turn out to the east. Obviously the turnouts would have to be re-tracked and stuff, but yea, it's not finalized as far as i know into a solid plan yet.

 

The one turnout to the cruise terminal would be best elevated vs where it is now crossing 169/440. This way you can keep the freight line if you want to use it without conditions. They could also run a line across the old slipway to where frank cinema etc shopping center is.

 

Sorry if my post was confused or confusing, i was having a bad sinus cold throwing my memory off.

 

If you have any added info please share as i'm eager to learn more about what they are trying to do there, especially since as you know i go there ~every other week to see my woman! :P

 

- A

Ok, hold the phones.

 

I don't know what plans you saw, but from what I have read the plan for the PCCs is for a line around the Bayonne waterfront. I have NEVER heard of anything about the line starting from LSP (it would be extremely wasteful).

 

I have only heard of PCC cars on that line in Bayonne nothing else.

Exactly, same here.

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Must be 2 different things.:confused: I wish my memory wasnt so crappy. :).

 

Anyways keep us posted. :)

 

- A

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