Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
metsfan

The fallen flag thread

Recommended Posts

This thread is and can be used for any topic relating to or specific about railroad companies before they exited the railroad industry, or simply disappeared all together. Feel free to discuss rights of way, leasing, trackage rights, projects, equipment, anything relating to defunct railroads.

 

Here is a list you may find useful:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_I_railroad#See_also

 

There are some big names in that list, and some not so big, but equally an important part of history!

 

- (A)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its a true shame that the NYC never preserved ONE of the many 4-6-4 Hudsons that they made. The Commodore Vanderbilt, Empire State Express, or Dreyfuss Hudson non exists today. If the money is right blueprints should be found to create these fabled engines again! They exist only through model railroading as I have them all three. I have NYC trains and wish I was around to actually ride them. Also, I have Pennsylvania trains including a GG-1, 4-6-2 Pacific K-4, S-2 Turbine 6-8-6, & 2-8-2 Mikado. These are legendary trains which should all be in existence...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PRR intentionally preserved much of its equipment. It's why most of the stuff you see is PRR. NYC was poorly run in its last decade, they barely electrified any part of its system, the 3rd rail in place now was put there by an earlier railroad before they merged into the NYCRR back in the 1800's!!

 

NYC steam locomotives only survived because rail workers hid them, or they were sold before dieselisation.

 

- A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You always have to be thankful for the PRR, preserving its heritage, not to mention the many G's that are still with us! There is an NYC musuem but I don't think that they really had any input for it as its in Indiana and was probably built by the NYS historical society or something along those lines.

 

BTW nice idea for a thread! :tup::tup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You always have to be thankful for the PRR, preserving its heritage, not to mention the many G's that are still with us! There is an NYC musuem but I don't think that they really had any input for it as its in Indiana and was probably built by the NYS historical society or something along those lines.

 

BTW nice idea for a thread! :tup::tup:

 

Thanks!

 

Yea, the NYC sent its steam west, mainly its lake shore water level route (which competed with the broadway limited) to chicago. If the locomotives had been in ny, they would have been scrapified. I believe only 6 NYC steamers remain, while...... all most every model of PRR steam and electric traction is represented somewhere.

 

Another sad tale is the streetcar situation. While remnants of the tracks, terminals, stations can be found all over the place, only a few trolly cars remain, mostly broken down, but some of them are in working order. PCC cars are obviously the better preserved out of the streetcar/interurban/trolly arena, however they too far outnumber in non-operational units vs working.

 

The east river tunnel railroad had a underground trolly line to GCT. The current (7) station there cuts through an old loop at the western edge. Part of the loop remains sealed off from the queens bound (southern) track.

 

As over-reaching as it seems now, there were indeed ideas & plans to extend the line into NJ, and provide underground trolly service between queens and NJ. Alas the company went under when the queensboro bridge was built, and all that remains of it is part of each loop.

 

This was all powered by overhead 3rd rail.

 

Another company operated a line over the qbb, which was bought out by the same folks who started out, and then sold their stake, in the newtown railroad, the very same tracks that sit in my town!

 

NYC's transportation history is incredible, and it ties in a lot of the rest of the country & its various railroad history.

 

- A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the old trolley terminal at the essex St (J)(M)(Z)(F) station could have been preserved or used for commercial space or something that ties in the trolley. Only a couple of Mohawk engines of the NYC remain. A crying shame!!! I really wish there was a way to make a hudson or somehow find one. The PCC Streetcars have a small home on the brooklyn waterfront. They are kept in plain sight right behind the huge fairway market by the waterfront. I don't know street names because i just drive around the area once in a blue... New York Central to me was a great railroad just needed more. They definitely needed more catenary track. PRR was better in all facets of preservation and catenary expansion.. Miss them both! :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the old trolley terminal at the essex St (J)(M)(Z)(F) station could have been preserved or used for commercial space or something that ties in the trolley. Only a couple of Mohawk engines of the NYC remain. A crying shame!!! I really wish there was a way to make a hudson or somehow find one. The PCC Streetcars have a small home on the brooklyn waterfront. They are kept in plain sight right behind the huge fairway market by the waterfront. I don't know street names because i just drive around the area once in a blue... New York Central to me was a great railroad just needed more. They definitely needed more catenary track. PRR was better in all facets of preservation and catenary expansion.. Miss them both! :(

 

Yes, that terminal could have served more of a purpose after the line stopped running.

 

The waterfront idea is a good one, and should be supported, it will mean jobs and a healthy atmosphere for renewal in the red hook area.

 

The blueprints for all of the steam engines can be found in various places. The problem is the cost of casting such a beast. Also remember most steam engines were converted to oil burning, so you'd need to get bio-fuel to run it, or face all kinds of penalties for emissions.

 

As far as catenary, the milwaukee road was the first with that in the 1870's i believe. Most of that railroads' territory is non-active/abandoned. Also, they stupidly de-electrified before disappearing in the 1980's.:confused:

 

As far as electrification goes, it really is the best way to go in most situations. The camden and amboy had plans to do this before also going away. This would have allowed electric freight to operate on that line today.

 

- A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

absolutely agree!! Electric is the way to go NEC is the best example. Metro North could expand, SEPTA and NJ transit could do more to expand also. Let's hop the pres' railroad stimulus plan will help bring railroad expansion. less cars in NYC the better. I wonder if LIRR has any old steam equipment anywhere???...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
absolutely agree!! Electric is the way to go NEC is the best example. Metro North could expand, SEPTA and NJ transit could do more to expand also. Let's hop the pres' railroad stimulus plan will help bring railroad expansion. less cars in NYC the better. I wonder if LIRR has any old steam equipment anywhere???...

 

They were all sold or scrapped as far as i know. LIRR had diesels fairly early.

 

- A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't wait till PRR 1361 a K4 is back together again, I don't know where the work on her is being done now but I believe the plan is to get her fired up again. I can't wait to see a K4 pounding the rails, hopefully they bring here to Central NJ and run it on the old NY&LB now the NJT's NJCL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't wait till PRR 1361 a K4 is back together again, I don't know where the work on her is being done now but I believe the plan is to get her fired up again. I can't wait to see a K4 pounding the rails, hopefully they bring here to Central NJ and run it on the old NY&LB now the NJT's NJCL.

 

Where is it now? If it's in PA you could take it over the reading viaduct to elizabeth then run it to the :njc: from there with minimal time on the :nec:.

 

Where are the ex-(NJT) GG1's?

 

- A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very cool shots!!!!

 

I think the GG1 is the sexiest locomotive ever built. I've never seen one yet that can beat it for style.

 

- A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is a Pennsylvania Railroad Museum out near Strasburg, PA, in Lancaster County. They have some beauties in there, including this one:

 

TrainsinTime2007064.jpg

 

That's me doing a WWII Re-enactment at the Museum in November 2007. I've lost some weight since then.

 

Very cool photo, that engine has been beautifully restored.

 

- A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I think was a shame was the way Penn Central was managed after the merger.

 

Since I was born in New Jersey, one of my favorite fallen flags is the Central Railroad Of New Jersey (Jersey Central) which before the Aldene Plan went into effect was a major railroad in Jersey City and Bayonne, though its' Jersey City Terminal was never served by the Hudson Tubes.

 

Today, the former Direct Line to Newark sees (NJT) HBLR light rail trains as far as West Side Avenue and the former line to Bayonne does also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do realize CNJ was in no way apart of PC. CNJ became part of Conrail. If you want to blame anyone for the downfall of the CNJ in its home state blame the state itself. They are the ones who came up with the Aldene plan in exchange the CNJ got some nice shiny GP40P's which still do what they do best just rebuilt a little.

 

Now on to the PC merger which was an epic fail but, when you take the North East's most powerful railroads, their egos and marry them there are bound to be problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course I do. I was just commenting that I thought it was a shame the way Penn Central was managed after the merger. I apologize - I should have added between the Pennsy and New York Central.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok no worries :P.

 

Pen Central was a mess, read "Wreck of the Penn Central" while it may make you hate PC, I actually found an odd liking of them after it. I think it better explains why it was so dysfunctional.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.