sirtiger Posted September 9, 2013 Share #1 Posted September 9, 2013 Cliffnotes: Step up fare has a extra charge imbedded in it? could be a dumb question. After riding LIRR for well over a decade, I finally seem to realize there is an extra charge for step up fare....as in off peak ticket to peak ticket on board charge. So if off peak one way from zone 1 to zone 4 is $8 or ten trip ticket ($68/$6.80 per ride), I would be charged $5 cash from the conductor if I was on the peak train. That would be a total of $12 or $12.80. Oppose to buying a one way ticket which cost $11. So there is $1 or $1.80 charge? bottom line, if that is correct, then I am better off having a peak ticket or a 10 trip peak ticket. Thanks in advance for any insight anyone here can provide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted September 9, 2013 Share #2 Posted September 9, 2013 The price of the step up for an off-peak one-way or round trip direct ticket is the difference between off-peak and peak fares, rounded up to the nearest dollar. The price of the step up for an off peak ten trip is the difference between 10% of the off peak ten trip cost and the one way peak fare, rounded up to the nearest dollar. (because off peak ten trips are discounted) The price of an extension of ride for a weekly or monthly ticket is the price of a one way (peak/off peak) ticket between the ticketed zone and the desired zone, rounded up to the nearest dollar. The price of an extension of ride for a one way or round trip ticket is the difference between the desired ticket price and the one you have, rounded up to the nearest dollar. I think if both transactions are involved, the rounding is done once at the end. (not 100% on this one) Also not sure on extending an off peak 10 trip. Before 12/30/2010 there was no rounding and the total price of a stepped up off peak ticket would be the same as if you bought a peak ticket to begin with. Not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tun Posted September 9, 2013 Share #3 Posted September 9, 2013 Basically, it's best if you have the correct ticket for the type of ride you want to take. The rounding up usually makes you end up paying more for the same ride. Amtrak7 is right on pretty much everything. Here is some clarification on the 10 trip step up + extension. Say you have a Zone 1 to 4 off peak 10 trip and you want to use it to zone 7 on a peak train. You are charged the $5 10 trip step up to turn your ticket into a one way peak zone 1 to 4 ticket ($11). Then we add the difference between a zone 1 to 4 peak and a zone 1 to 7 peak ($12.50 - $11) which is $1.50, for a total of $6.50. Then it is rounded up to the nearest dollar. So you'd be charged $7 for this example. Let me know if you have any other ticket questions. They started this rounding up practice to reduce the amount of quarters that we need to carry on us, but it's moot since we still need to have them for seniors. Seniors are not subject to the rounding up to the nearest dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckie Posted September 9, 2013 Share #4 Posted September 9, 2013 Amtrak7 is right except it's a 15% discount with the off peak ten trip over the cost of 15 one way off peaks. Stepping it up to the peak fare you lose the discount per ride. The one way peak is $11. One way off peak to peak step up is $3. The step up for the 10 trip off peak should be $11 minus the $6.80 = $4.20 rounded up to the next dollar amount = $5.00 In essence you would be better buying a one way peak as there is an 80 cents savings. Not to go off topic but if you try to refund the unused portion of an off peak ten trip you also lose the discount. Example if you turn in a 10 trip with 8 rides used they deduct $8 for each ride used equaling $64 making the refund $4. Add the processing fee ($10) you would get nothing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtiger Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted September 9, 2013 ^^that makes sense despite being somewhat confusing. Thanks for the explanation. 80 cents is quite a decent amount....about 7.3% difference. So you saying a off peak one way would be a $3 step up? I believe zone extension is a full fare...just no on board fare. If so, I think that would be the biggest rip ever. I could be wrong but I read it somewhere here a while back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 9, 2013 Share #6 Posted September 9, 2013 Anyone who pays the on board price is just not very smart. Just get the tickets at the station before you board. I don't even know what the on board price is for MNRR because I get my tickets in advance. They're pricey enough as it is. No need to give the more of your hard earned money and if you aren't sure, just get the peak ticket. That's what I do. I get off-peak only when I'm sure I'll be riding off peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtiger Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted September 9, 2013 I believe the onboard penalty is $5. Its pretty insane imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted September 9, 2013 Share #8 Posted September 9, 2013 I believe the onboard penalty is $5. Its pretty insane imho The onboard penalty is $6, rounded to the nearest dollar. (note: round, not necessarily round up) It is quite effective, I don't see that many people buying full fare tickets on trains anymore. But I seem to be seeing more step-ups, including the oft-overlooked and annoying senior to AM peak step up (does this one round?) I believe zone extension is a full fare...just no on board fare. If so, I think that would be the biggest rip ever. I could be wrong but I read it somewhere here a while back See my first post for zone extension. It's rounded difference for one way/RT/ten trip, full fare for commutation tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckie Posted September 9, 2013 Share #9 Posted September 9, 2013 Anyone who pays the on board price is just not very smart. Just get the tickets at the station before you board. I don't even know what the on board price is for MNRR because I get my tickets in advance. They're pricey enough as it is. No need to give the more of your hard earned money and if you aren't sure, just get the peak ticket. That's what I do. I get off-peak only when I'm sure I'll be riding off peak. There are many people that pay the on board for any reason imaginable. The reasons range from the legitimate lost ticket to ticket machine on the platform not working (even though the other 50 that got on the train with him had no problem). Then there's those that don't expect the 7:21 train to leave at 7:21. Some one will run up to me at 7:20 and ask if I can wait while they buy their ticket. They usually get the hint after I politely tell them I have to check with the few hundred people already on the train with their tickets. The onboard penalty is $6, rounded to the nearest dollar. (note: round, not necessarily round up) It is quite effective, I don't see that many people buying full fare tickets on trains anymore. But I seem to be seeing more step-ups, especially the oft-overlooked and annoying senior to AM peak step up (does this one round?) Correct, the onboard penalty is on average $6. In looking at my fare card, the AM inbound peak senior pays the step up to bring it to the peak fare with out rounding. I wasn't sure from memory as I only occasionally work in the morning. Further, If the senior has a ten trip it is acceptable to punch two rides instead of charging the step up. No, not that many buy the tickets on the train although last Sunday one conductor collected almost $950 in fares on one train! The likely reasoning was long lines at the machines combined with the not expecting the 9:XX train to leave at the specified time as the Dominican Parade was that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtiger Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share #10 Posted September 9, 2013 you are right Amtrak...its $6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 9, 2013 Share #11 Posted September 9, 2013 There are many people that pay the on board for any reason imaginable. The reasons range from the legitimate lost ticket to ticket machine on the platform not working (even though the other 50 that got on the train with him had no problem). Then there's those that don't expect the 7:21 train to leave at 7:21. Some one will run up to me at 7:20 and ask if I can wait while they buy their ticket. They usually get the hint after I politely tell them I have to check with the few hundred people already on the train with their tickets. lol... I'll be honest. I've almost missed my train a few times but that is due to the Hudson Rail Link driver. He's a very nice guy but sometimes he cuts it way too close by coming later than what is listed on the schedule. By the time we get to the station I barely have enough time to get to the platform, let alone get a ticket, even though the schedule allots time to get tickets. Then of course even though there are multiple machines, sometimes they screw up or you get someone who has no clue of how to use them and you're there behind them huffing and puffing to give them the hint to get moving so you can get your ticket. It's happened twice where I've had to literally jump from the stairs and onto the platform to get on. Luckily someone was holding the door. Tends to be more of a problem though with the peak trains for some reason. Off-peak trains are less of a problem. I can only recall one time seeing someone pay on board and that was a senior who got on at either the Riverdale or Spuyten Duyvil station. I got the impression that she just didn't know how to use the machine and couldn't be bothered and didn't ride regularly so she just paid on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckie Posted September 9, 2013 Share #12 Posted September 9, 2013 I got the impression that she just didn't know how to use the machine and couldn't be bothered and didn't ride regularly so she just paid on board. There are seniors that pay on board regularly whether they don't want to wait on line at the terminal or don't want to use the machine. In most cases they will have exact change ready for me when I come though. In retrospect, that is more than I can say for some of the regular monthly ticket holders who in some cases I have to beat (figuratively) to get them to show me their monthly when I come through. When I make the announcement to please have you tickets ready, they think it doesn't pertain to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 9, 2013 Share #13 Posted September 9, 2013 There are seniors that pay on board regularly whether they don't want to wait on line at the terminal or don't want to use the machine. In most cases they will have exact change ready for me when I come though. In retrospect, that is more than I can say for some of the regular monthly ticket holders who in some cases I have to beat (figuratively) to get them to show me their monthly when I come through. When I make the announcement to please have you tickets ready, they think it doesn't pertain to them. lol... But the seniors don't have to pay an on board surcharge right? If so then I can understand them taking advantage of that. As for the monthly ticket holders, lol, yeah they usually act as if they don't want to be bothered. I get the feeling that they think you guys should know them by now so no checking should be necessary. I see some of the regulars on the Hudson Rail Link bus. They're supposed to flash their pass but a lot of them just get on and don't even bother. I always dip my Metrocard even though the driver is very cool with me and I have an unlimited Metrocard, but I do it anyway so that he doesn't have any problems in case anyone is watching. Same thing with the ticket. I always have my ticket nearby so I can just have it ready. I prefer that they get as I get on this way I can relax and not be disturbed but that doesn't happen too often. All depends on who is collecting. Some of them are quicker than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lirr42 Posted September 9, 2013 Share #14 Posted September 9, 2013 If you think this stuff is complicated, just wait until you see NJTransit's tariff policy! Amtrak7 is right except it's a 15% discount with the off peak ten trip over the cost of 15 one way off peaks. I could be wrong, but I thought it was a 15% discount off of 10 one-way peak fares (since you can't purchase 15 trips at once). I think what Amtark7 is getting at is that when you pay the step up, the fare paid is considered 10% of the value of the off-peak ten-trip ticket, since when you use an off-peak ten-trip on a peak train you forfeit the discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckie Posted September 9, 2013 Share #15 Posted September 9, 2013 I could be wrong, but I thought it was a 15% discount off of 10 one-way peak fares (since you can't purchase 15 trips at once). I think what Amtark7 is getting at is that when you pay the step up, the fare paid is considered 10% of the value of the off-peak ten-trip ticket, since when you use an off-peak ten-trip on a peak train you forfeit the discount. Sorry, that was a typo. It is a 15% savings from the cost of 10 one ways. This only applied to off peak tickets. There is no discount in purchasing a peak 10 trip. And yes, when the off peak 10 trip is stepped up you must pay the additional to make up the discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted September 9, 2013 Share #16 Posted September 9, 2013 If you think this stuff is complicated, just wait until you see NJTransit's tariff policy! Is it really that complicated? $4 or $5 change in terminal fee, all stations have TVM's, $5 flat surcharge for those buying onboard (seniors too?), no peak/off peak, and extension of ride is just the one way from ticketed to actual. NJT Bus on the other hand... EDIT: Forgot that some Main/Bergen/PVL stations and all MNR WOH stations still have ORT's (MNR ones are oddly valid on PM peak trains). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinePower Posted September 10, 2013 Share #17 Posted September 10, 2013 The onboard penalty is $6, rounded to the nearest dollar. (note: round, not necessarily round up) It is quite effective, I don't see that many people buying full fare tickets on trains anymore. But I seem to be seeing more step-ups, including the oft-overlooked and annoying senior to AM peak step up (does this one round?) See my first post for zone extension. It's rounded difference for one way/RT/ten trip, full fare for commutation tickets. Yeah it's quite annoying, why won't the LIRR just honor senior on all trains like most other railroads (like NJT)? Probably have complained to the about it on numerous occasions, yet never gotten an explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 10, 2013 Share #18 Posted September 10, 2013 I absolutely disagree with that statement and believe you're not in line to say that. In fact, I paid the fare on-board last Wednesday coming home from Penn Station. Accidentally got an off-peak ticket because I was in a rush to get the 7:14 to Great Neck (had 5 minutes to get from the subway, get a ticket and get on-board), not remembering that it still was peak time. $7 for the ticket, plus a $5 charge on-board. I didn't mind, but I don't think I'm stupid either. I was referring to those that were simply too lazy to get a ticket at the machine in advance. There are always exceptions to the rule, but my point was if you're an able bodied individual and can get a ticket in advance, why would you pay more on board just because? In your case you got the wrong ticket so that's understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted September 11, 2013 Share #19 Posted September 11, 2013 I was referring to those that were simply too lazy to get a ticket at the machine in advance. There are always exceptions to the rule, but my point was if you're an able bodied individual and can get a ticket in advance, why would you pay more on board just because? In your case you got the wrong ticket so that's understandable. Simple human stupidity ain't it obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckie Posted September 11, 2013 Share #20 Posted September 11, 2013 I absolutely disagree with that statement and believe you're not in line to say that. In fact, I paid the fare on-board last Wednesday coming home from Penn Station. Accidentally got an off-peak ticket because I was in a rush to get the 7:14 to Great Neck (had 5 minutes to get from the subway, get a ticket and get on-board), not remembering that it still was peak time. $7 for the ticket, plus a $5 charge on-board. I didn't mind, but I don't think I'm stupid either. There's nothing stupid about that regardless of what others say. Paying an off peak to peak step up is totally different then an on board fare. The on board fare is charged when you do not have a valid ticket. The step up is charged if you have an off peak ticket and want to travel peak. For the occasional traveler I always purchasing an off peak ticket so if you happen to travel peak you just pay the extra. If you carry a peak ticket and decide to travel off peak with it you lose the difference. Sure, for the later scenario you could buy the off peak and refund the peak if you have no further need to travel but with the refund fee if you happen to get any money back it's minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtiger Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share #21 Posted September 11, 2013 I absolutely disagree with that statement and believe you're not in line to say that. In fact, I paid the fare on-board last Wednesday coming home from Penn Station. Accidentally got an off-peak ticket because I was in a rush to get the 7:14 to Great Neck (had 5 minutes to get from the subway, get a ticket and get on-board), not remembering that it still was peak time. $7 for the ticket, plus a $5 charge on-board. I didn't mind, but I don't think I'm stupid either. am I missing something? you have an off peak....isn't it better to pay the step up oppose to pay full freight plus the $6 on board penalty? I know there are exceptions to the rule...I would rather take the next train than pay that silly $6 on board penalty. Having single ticket backup usually won't work for most people as those ticket expire. For occasional riders, having a 10 trip off peak as a backup is the best (good for 6 months)....I even share my 10 trip with people close to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tun Posted September 11, 2013 Share #22 Posted September 11, 2013 The $1 family child fare is the best backup ticket. No penalty fare to step it up and a $1 ticket expiring in your pocket doesn't hurt as much as an off peak ticket expiring in your pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 11, 2013 Share #23 Posted September 11, 2013 am I missing something? you have an off peak....isn't it better to pay the step up oppose to pay full freight plus the $6 on board penalty? I know there are exceptions to the rule...I would rather take the next train than pay that silly $6 on board penalty. Having single ticket backup usually won't work for most people as those ticket expire. For occasional riders, having a 10 trip off peak as a backup is the best (good for 6 months)....I even share my 10 trip with people close to me I don't understand why there is no discount for a 10 pack? I mean it's one reason why I just buy tickets for MetroNorth as I go because I don't see the point in putting out say $82.50 in advance (10 pack peak tickets from Riverdale to Grand Central at $8.25 each) and getting nothing to show for it? In my case I also take the express bus so, it's $55.00 a week for that, plus whatever I buy for MetroNorth and my thinking is that I want to get the full use out of what I pay for, particularly the express bus. I'm willing to bet that you'd have more people using the LIRR or MetroNorth if they gave a discount on that 10 pack because what would happen is I would probably say okay, I'll allocate X amount of days to MetroNorth just because they're giving me this discount, but since they don't I just buy them as I need them. Paying $82.50 (sometimes more than that a month) is almost like getting another Metrocard for the month for the local bus subway, so I try to watch how much I use it since I'm supposed to "saving" money using public transit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tun Posted September 11, 2013 Share #24 Posted September 11, 2013 Off peak 10-trips have a discount. Peak 10-trips don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtiger Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share #25 Posted September 11, 2013 I don't understand why there is no discount for a 10 pack? I mean it's one reason why I just buy tickets for MetroNorth as I go because I don't see the point in putting out say $82.50 in advance (10 pack peak tickets from Riverdale to Grand Central at $8.25 each) and getting nothing to show for it? Perhaps MTA is discouraging people to take the train during peak times. There are complaints how full the peak trains are & how MTA is maxed out of trains coming into Penn Personally I think mta should give a small discount for peak 10 trip and go back to the 1 full year of the ticket being valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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